Help Me Build an Arcane Assassin/Bodyguard

[AlmaPheonix]

Hey all.

My friend is starting a low magic campaign and I'm having some issues figuring out how to build my character because of the restrictions of character creation. In this world, magic is very rare which has led to said complications. I plan on playing a character that acts as a personal bodyguard for an ambassador or delegate from one of the countries in the setting. As part of her character background, I plan on having said ambassador choose my PC because she has magic. I'd like her to be a mobile, assassin like character. She is not to be the party tank or healer, but rather an evasive, high damage per round type. Having skills outside of combat will most likely be handy in this campaign (I've played with this GM before) and fit the character so I'd rather keep her intelligence up. I'd prefer to dump charisma if possible.

So TL:DR, magical, sneaky bodyguard but due to setting's magic rarity, she is smart about it.

We are starting at 1st level with 15 point buy. We are unlikely to make it to much beyond 10th level, probably level 12 at most. We will reach 2nd quickly, so if the character doesn't truly come online until 2nd, that is perfectly fine.

Now, the restrictions:
-Only half of my character levels, rounded down, can be pure caster. This includes classes that only get up to level 6 spells like bards, alchemists and magi. Classes like ranger and paladin are fine due to their already limited casting abilities. In exchange (kind of), magic will be treated as slightly more powerful due to its rarity (save DC's are increased by 1 and +1 is added to rolls to overcome spell resistance).
-I can only use content from Core plus 2 books. This goes for all levels, not just 1st level creation. Third party options are banned. Advanced Class Guide is also not allowed (this is GM's choice, obviously, and I do not intend to argue on this with him). However, Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace can still be taken without counting against book total.
-Guns are not a thing the PCs will have access to, so no Gunslinger or gun based archetypes.

As for what I was thinking about, I was thinking about have rouge or ninja as the PC's not magic class but then it was a toss up for spell casting class. I was planning on having her magic be arcane but I am open to changing my mind. The Shadowdancer prestige class seemed to fit my image of the character but I am willing to forgo this in favor of the character working mechanically. As for weapon, it depends on her main class but I was thinking something one handed that can be finessed. I'm not looking for maximum optimization as the cap on caster levels makes that difficult, but I would like the character to be helpful both in and out of combat instead of a one trick pony. There are many ways this character could go and I'm just interested in hearing some ideas.

[Honest Tiefling]

That's...That's a pretty steep requirement on caster levels. So...ah...How married are you to the magic thing? Because that trade-off is horrible.

Have you considered a ranger? Shadowdancer will be hard to take, given that you need 5 ranks of stealth, so will that be alright, or is that too long for it to take? Ranger has spells, albeit later on. The animal companion is always nice, and it can do stealth. Only issue is that they are often more wisdom based then intelligence based. Ninja might be able to fluffed as more magic, given the ki-pool. I would suggest monk, but...No. Monks are terrible.

You might want to tag this as a pathfinder thread, by the way.

[AlmaPheonix]

Yeah, I just realized I forgot the tag. It's been added. Sorry about that. As for ranger vs ninja, I was leaning more towards something with sneak attack and yeah, the ninja stuff can be fluffed as magic which was why I was considering it. And I know Shadowdancer would be at level 6, minimum, which is why I am not married to it.

As for magic, I'm mostly looking for a couple levels at most to get a few useful spells to help with the build. I never planned on her to be a full caster. But spells like vanish and mirror image can be covered with ninja so, again, toss up.

[Iku Rex]

How about a "secretary" alchemist/rogue.

Uses Advanced Player's Guide and Ulitmate Magic.

Vivisectionist (sneak attack!): http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist
Internal Alchemist: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/internal-alchemist
Mindchemist: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/mindchemist

Full sneak attack progression, skills and formulae. Useful in and out of combat. Seems appropriate for a low magic setting too.

(APG has some rogue archetypes too. Depends on whether you want to give up trapfinding. Aacrobat, Poisoner or Swashbuckler maybe? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue#TOC-Archetypes-Alternate-Class-Features )

[Florian]

@AlmaPhoenix:

Considering these restrictions, especially PB15, I'd stick with a mostly SAD class.

As much as I like the Ninja, I wouldn't do it under this conditions. If Tengus are an option, I'd go for Ninja/Oracle (Shigenjo) on a 3to1 basis.
Else, pick unchained rogue.

Addendum to explain that: Ninja are actually pretty MAD. Str/Dex for atk and dmg, wis for ac, con for hp, cha for ki pool.
For spellcasting, you want a mathxing Cha based caster to keep MADness as low as possible. Divine and armour work well, proficiencies being there, so go for it.
Remember how non-class levels and the curse work. Tengu FCB gives you still more virtual levels...

[Kurald Galain]

I'd say put each odd level in your favorite full BAB class, and each odd level in full caster, preferably specialist wizard. That will give you 2nd level spells by level six, and 3rd level spells by level ten. That's comparable to paladin/ranger casting; you'll get less class features but better spells.

[Florian]

I'd say put each odd level in your favorite full BAB class, and each odd level in full caster, preferably specialist wizard. That will give you 2nd level spells by level six, and 3rd level spells by level ten. That's comparable to paladin/ranger casting; you'll get less class features but better spells.

Inspired by this and based on the fact that I really loathe this kind of setting rules (Low magic means high PB), I propose this:

Kitsune Paladin/Oracle, 1to1 mix.
Mystery: Life or Knowledge
Curse: Wrecking Mysticism.
Feats: PBS, Rapid Shot, maybe Deadly Aim, but mainly Magical Tail, as often as possible.

Now shake that magic ass, foxy lady and go smite them.

[Spore]

. I was planning on having her magic be arcane but I am open to changing my mind. The Shadowdancer prestige class seemed to fit my image of the character but I am willing to forgo this in favor of the character working mechanically.I'm not looking for maximum optimization as the cap on caster levels makes that difficult, but I would like the character to be helpful both in and out of combat instead of a one trick pony. There are many ways this character could go and I'm just interested in hearing some ideas.

I would go for a Fetchling Rogue into Shadowdancer, possibly ending up with a few Fighter levels to get some feats and combat endurance. Why?

1) Skill Points: Most things will be dealt with by skill checks in this world. If you can get your hands on 1st level wands (which isn't too far-fetched for a rogue to have connections to some kind of magical black market), your checks will be even more insane. You don't need flight if you have a great Acrobatics modifier and cast Jump from a wand. You don't need Invisbility if you can create Obscuring Mist in order to hide yourself.

2) Hide in Plain Sight: Yeah, hiding without a distraction seems fine.

3) Shadow Companion: A world lacking magic is a world lacking in magical weapons (or else your DM is screwing you over). So your shadow is immune to damage. A world lacking magic is also a world where the shadow's touch attack shines immensely (no easy access to Lesser Restoration).

4) Racials: A Fetchling gains the advantage in dim light (full concealment instead of partial), he has a Disguise Self SLA and on 9th level you gain Shadow Walk (which is basically lesser Teleport for your whole group) and you would gain Plane Shift on 13th level (although only to the Shadow Plane but you could try and get allies or even a base there). It also can hide better than anyone else (1/2 Rogue levels to Stealth, +2 to Stealth naturally) and Shadow Ghost and Shadow Walk allows for more mobility (emulating Dimension Door)

And it is oozing with flavor, but you'd need a way to cast Darkness or Deeper Darkness now because you cannot count on any situation happening in the near dark.

[AlmaPheonix]

@Sporeegg and Iku Rex, I really like both of your ideas. I could just take the minor and major magic talents to get mage hand and vanish if I wanted. And the vivisectionist did catch my eye. If only I had access to one more book.... :smallsigh: I may stat them out and see how they look on paper and then decide. Thanks so much, you wonderful folks.

[Spore]

I have revisited the Shadowdancer site and I feel the feat tax for entering Shadowdancer is too steep. Because of this I would recommend going Fetchling Dex/Cha full Ninja. Go for Vanishing Trick and then I would go most likely into unarmed combat (maybe with a monk dip for feats and increased base damage) and Sap Adept and Sap Master. When you want to be a bodyguard you should have strong options for nonlethal damage since a diplomat cannot cause everyone to die that opposes him.

[Florian]

That's not such a great idea. Remember, still PB15. You still have to jump all the hoops for Dex to Damage (Slashing/Fencing Grace feat chain), leaving you off to a very weak start. Until you learn hamatatsula, your unarmed strike won't benefit from this (as you need to move the damage type from B to S).

[Kurald Galain]

That's not such a great idea. Remember, still PB15. You still have to jump all the hoops for Dex to Damage (Slashing/Fencing Grace feat chain), leaving you off to a very weak start. Until you learn hamatatsula, your unarmed strike won't benefit from this (as you need to move the damage type from B to S).

Since this appears to be a relatively low-power campaign, you don't need dex to damage per se since you've got sneak attack. To boost your damage more, dip a level of unchained barbarian, or karmic monk.

[Florian]

Since this appears to be a relatively low-power campaign, you don't need dex to damage per se since you've got sneak attack. To boost your damage more, dip a level of unchained barbarian, or karmic monk.

Consider two things that are quite common in low-magic campaigns done wrong:
- Handling and overcoming Damage Reduction.
- Non-scaling defensive options.

if the first issue comes up, it'll pretty much be a killer. The second issue will pretty much automatically come up and will cause serious problems as the source used to shore up that defense, magic, is not availlable.

So, for example, you should be able to generate enough damage per hit to relieably overcome DR of any sorts if your gm screwed up at balancing that issue, mostly meaning high fixed values to compensate that.
Take your standard CR3 Mephit as an example. That little wimp will negate two Sneak Attack Dice (per hit) simply by having DR 5/magic, at least if you don't have a magic or buffed up weapon.
In a sense, that also affects the worth of the ninjas ki pool, as the extra attack is pretty worthless if you can't make it stick.

Based on that, I'd propose sticking with the Ninja, but going the Str > Wis/Dex > Con > Int/Cha route and opt for VMC Monk here.

[Kurald Galain]

Consider two things that are quite common in low-magic campaigns done wrong:
- Handling and overcoming Damage Reduction.
- Non-scaling defensive options.

Both the Ninja and the half-wizard half-fighter have non-scaling defensive options. For damage reduction, carrying cold iron / silver / adamantine weapons is a decent approach; it's not perfect but it covers most of them.

[Florian]

Both the Ninja and the half-wizard half-fighter have non-scaling defensive options. For damage reduction, carrying cold iron / silver / adamantine weapons is a decent approach; it's not perfect but it covers most of them.

You answered before I finsihed editing my post ;)

What I wanted to point out is, that people chosing the Ninja class tend to overly rely on the Ki Pool, a very useful feature, but tend to overly emphazise Cha, what is basically a useless attribute for you. Considering the opportunity cost, you can do better.

Now, we're still talking about PB15, a thing that can be pretty challenging for the more MAD classes out there.
If you pick a combat style that is not overly reliant on feat support, like Two Handed, then you can always keep Cha low and pick Extra Ki Pool multiple times, expanding your Ki Pool way faster then trying to shore up your Cha attribute.

Interestingly, there're two VMC options out there to work with when focusing on the Ki Pool. Magus and Monk.
VMC Monk comes online pretty late, but stacks retroactivelly, both being Ki Pools and all.
VMC Magus is a bit more fiddly, as in the beginning you have two pools to manage until you pick Ki Pool Arcana at 7th, but you can always use it to shore up you offensive potential until then.

Regular MCing into Magus, Monk or UnMonk is still a possibility I wouldn't discount, as both, Int or Wis are vastly more preverable attributes than Cha for building up your pool.

Not knowing the gm, I'm disinclined to agree with you. In a non-Standard game, especially low magic, I'm more onclined to trust in a 2H weapon, high Str and Power attack, leaving my defensive options to Shadow Clone than, for example, going TWF and Vanishing Trick, trusting too heavily on SA dice to come through.

[meemaas]

Personally, I'd suggest the unchained rogue. Take the minor and major magic talents and you'll have some simple arcane casting that depending on your choices can be highly versatile. Would probably fit your needs fairly well, especially with the low point buy.

[Spore]

What I wanted to point out is, that people chosing the Ninja class tend to overly rely on the Ki Pool, a very useful feature, but tend to overly emphazise Cha, what is basically a useless attribute for you.

Well, they shouldn't Cha 12 (+2 = 14) is entirely enough because it only give you more mileage but NOT more options. Personally I like my ninjas to get Vanishing Trick and spend the rest on Rogue Tricks that don't consume Ki Points at all. That being said, maybe an unarmed Ninja isn't smart.

Circumventing DR is vital and much easier done with weapons.

[Florian]

@Sporeegg:

Unarmed Ninja can be surprisingly good, but not under the conditions that have been set here. In a sense, they're a late game build that needs a long setup to truely shine and where picking your items accordingly is important. Roughly, you need Ninja11/(Un)Monk4 for ot to reach its apex, what would be the final leg of a regular AP. It's bloody work to level it on a 2to1 basis, but can be rewarding.
(When gm'ing Jade Throne, the player of that class regularly tried to bride me with a six pack of beer so he can get his grip on a monks belt)

Also, under the set conditions, 14 without racial is not really worth it. 12 at most, as you need those points elsewhere.

[AlmaPheonix]

I starting looking into building the character and found some of the stated complications with some of the earlier builds. In addition, the problem with using alchemist is that it does not seem as though they have much to offer the character, flavor wise. Plus, I really am liking the Fetchling and my GM just approved it so I would like to stick with that race. This leaves me one book, so Vivsectionist Alchemist would go over the limit.

I'm wondering if I should go 2H instead of TWF. I'm not sure which would fit the build better. If I go 2H, I potentially could spare the feats to actually take Shadowdancer. If I go TWF, I don't think I can. Regardless of if I go rogue or ninja, there are a couple of ways to get good two-handed weapons. However, I am trying to avoiding being too MAD because of the 15 point buy and low magic, and I'm not sure which build would be worse in this regard. And for the character concept, I think she would use some sort of weapon over unarmed so there is that. As I've been working on her and given the rarity of Fetchlings (and other outsiders) in the setting, I figured that her purpose as a bodyguard is also to intimidate or freak out anyone who would try something. Her appearance is going to be unnerving to a lot of people in this world, so a her wielding a weapon would help with that. Suggestions?

My GM is fair but hard. I don't think he would screw us over with DR or having non-scaling defensive options. But I can never be sure and should plan just in case. Plus, he loves puzzle bosses.

As a side note, I feel it is important to remind people that have input that I can only use TWO books aside from core. If I had access to more, I don't feel it would have been this much of a hassle to build the concept.

[Florian]

@AlmaPhoenix:

Take another look at the Shadowdancer prereqs and notice that Combat Reflexes is one of them. You do good by picking up a 2H reach weapon and utilize on that.

[Spore]

Go for a Katana build (because it can be used twohanded, onehanded AND has a good critical hit chance) but don't focus on it. Have Shuriken and some Daggers/Wakizashi in your weaponry and do a Strength build. Shadow Clones is your defensive option then, Concealment is your second option. Your mundane tricks should focus on reducing the lighting. Shuriken to cut down candles, powder filled arrows to extinguish braziers.

[Florian]

Fetchling Ninja to Shadowdancer is going to be very very tough.
You need 3 feats and you sink all of them into it, not even leaving space open to pick Weapon Finesse.

So we're back to a Str-based build.
At that point, I'd actualy start with Combat Reflexes and a Kusarigama.

[Spore]

I said either full Ninja OR Fighter/Rogue into Shadowdancer. Pardon the misunderstanding.

[AlmaPheonix]

Alright, I will look into how that would look statted out. And I will look into Fighter/Rogue a bit more.