Constitution +2 or Resilient (Charisma)?

[steppedonad4]

Hopefully soon I will have a 12th-level battlemaster. I will therefore have to make a choice between +2 to Constitution or Resilient (Charisma). These are locked in choices that I can't be persuaded against or for anything different. They will both be taken at one point or another, I just need to decide when that point will be for each of them. +2 to Constitution will raise his Con to 18 and thus give him 12 more hit points and +1 to Con saves, which are already pretty high being a fighter. Resilient (Charisma) will raise his Charisma to 14 and thus boost Persuasion & Deception and give him a +6 Charisma saving throw bonus.

Decisions, decisions. Please help me make this one?

[Doof]

There are like, 30 things that are resisted by Charisma as opposed to 100+ by Dex, Con, and Wis. It's the second most useless saving throw after Intelligence (that has, what, 8 things that use the saving throw?).

'do I want +2 in the most vital area of my class or gain proficiency in the second most useless saving throw in the game'...

Yeah go for Resilient (Charisma), it'll be hilarious.

[MaxWilson]

Hopefully soon I will have a 12th-level battlemaster. I will therefore have to make a choice between +2 to Constitution or Resilient (Charisma). These are locked in choices that I can't be persuaded against or for anything different. They will both be taken at one point or another, I just need to decide when that point will be for each of them. +2 to Constitution will raise his Con to 18 and thus give him 12 more hit points and +1 to Con saves, which are already pretty high being a fighter. Resilient (Charisma) will raise his Charisma to 14 and thus boost Persuasion & Deception and give him a +6 Charisma saving throw bonus.

Decisions, decisions. Please help me make this one?

Take Lucky. Having (effective) advantage on your occasional Charisma saves (vs. Banishment, possession, etc.) is about as good as having proficiency; and you can use it to boost Persuasion and Deception checks when needed. But it can also help you avoid damage (especially crits), which effectively adds to your HP just as well as +2 Con does.

It can't do all of that at once, but you're usually not doing lots of negotiation AND fighting in the same game session anyway, IME.

Edit: whoops, didn't see your "these are locked-in choices" clause. Never mind then.

[steppedonad4]

There are like, 30 things that are resisted by Charisma as opposed to 100+ by Dex, Con, and Wis. It's the second most useless saving throw after Intelligence (that has, what, 8 things that use the saving throw?).

'do I want +2 in the most vital area of my class or gain proficiency in the second most useless saving throw in the game'...

Yeah go for Resilient (Charisma), it'll be hilarious.

Charisma saving throws are also against save or suck spells, and the effects of very powerful monsters. They're also important against madness, which is what my character needs to resist in the current Rage of Demons Expeditions season.

My character also has proficiency in every other saving throw except Intelligence.

So you know where you can take your attitude, don't you?

EDIT: Actually, you know what, thank you. You've helped me decided that Resilient (Charisma) is by far the smartest choice.

[Doof]

Charisma saving throws are also against save or suck spells, and the effects of very powerful monsters. They're also important against madness, which is what my character needs to resist in the current Rage of Demons Expeditions season.

My character also has proficiency in every other saving throw except Intelligence.

So you know where you can take your attitude, don't you?

What the hell is wrong with you? That's not how you ask questions- you don't go ask a simple question, then be all condescending to people answering your questions because they weren't given the special consideration that either choice was supposed to get.

Next time you need help making a decision, try to reveal ALL relevant information, and don't be an insufferable jerk when people say 'oh that's an easy choice' because they rightly didn't know any better.

[steppedonad4]

What the hell is wrong with you? That's not how you ask questions- you don't go ask a simple question, then be all condescending to people answering your questions because they weren't given the special consideration that either choice was supposed to get.

Next time you need help making a decision, try to reveal ALL relevant information, and don't be an insufferable jerk when people say 'oh that's an easy choice' because they rightly didn't know any better.

Lol, you give me a smart-arse, condescending attitude and then complain that I am the one being condescending. Yeah, off to ignore you go buddy.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Setting the above, um, `discussion` aside...

Yeah, resilient (cha) is a pretty poor choice. Effects that target charisma are very rare, and a lot of them aren't things a battlemaster is not likely to ever face - it's extremely unlikely you'll ever be worrying about banishment, dispel evil, or magic circle (unless you actually are a demon or something, in which case, take it). Furthermore, you have decent coverage for saves anyway thanks to indomitable. Meanwhile, you constitution is almost certainly going to matter every single session. So out of the two, I highly recommend constitution.

Also, may I ask why you are `locked in` to these two? Because if you can actually go for something else (like lucky, as MaxWilson suggested), I really would recommend thinking about it.

[MaxWilson]

Charisma saving throws are also against save or suck spells, and the effects of very powerful monsters. They're also important against madness, which is what my character needs to resist in the current Rage of Demons Expeditions season.

My character also has proficiency in every other saving throw except Intelligence.

That's pretty unusual. Is it a house rule, or did you take Resilient (Wisdom) and Resilient (Dexterity) as your lower-level feats?

[steppedonad4]

That's pretty unusual. Is it a house rule, or did you take Resilient (Wisdom) and Resilient (Dexterity) as your lower-level feats?

1st: Shield Master.
4th: Resilient (Dexterity).
6th: Resilient (Wisdom).
8th: Strength +2.

Fighter has Strength & Con to start. That leaves only Int & Cha.

12 hit points and +1 to a +7 Con save just doesn't seem like that good a deal compared to gaining +5 to Charisma saves and +1 to all Charisma checks.

[Dizlag]

For just the roleplaying boosts alone being able to make your character a little more Persuasive or Deceitful is just money. Saving Throws ... bah! Who needs them when you're charming enough to get on their good side. =)

Good luck!

D

[steppedonad4]

For just the roleplaying boosts alone being able to make your character a little more Persuasive or Deceitful is just money. Saving Throws ... bah! Who needs them when you're charming enough to get on their good side. =)

Good luck!

D
How else is he going to persuade the ladies to sleep with him?

[kaoskonfety]

1st: Shield Master.
4th: Resilient (Dexterity).
6th: Resilient (Wisdom).
8th: Strength +2.

Fighter has Strength & Con to start. That leaves only Int & Cha.

12 hit points and +1 to a +7 Con save just doesn't seem like that good a deal compared to gaining +5 to Charisma saves and +1 to all Charisma checks.

As a fellow who gets that its freaking hilarious to have no gaps, even at the cost of whatever "optimization" is at your table, I endorse getting good Charisma Saves at the cost of a handful of HP and a +1 on your con save. Most peoples math will advise you are wrong to do this due to rare Cha saves by total count - but I assume your HP are quite tolerable, your Con save is excellent already and a failed Charisma save can take you out for an encounter (or more).

Your level is high enough you are "lateish game" so you are fairly likely to start seeing these from time to time, and getting whammied for even a few turns is going to cost WAY more than the 12-20 HP is worth, doubly so at the point where raise dead is online. Also it makes you sexier, which more Con does not.

Be sexy.

[steppedonad4]

Your level is high enough you are "lateish game" so you are fairly likely to start seeing these from time to time, and getting whammied for even a few turns is going to cost WAY more than the 12-20 HP is worth, doubly so at the point where raise dead is online. Also it makes you sexier, which more Con does not.
Getting taken out of a combat means losing tons of damage and battlefield control. Shield Master gives advantage on almost every attack, at 11th-level that's three attacks a turn, six with Action Surge, all at 1d8+6 plus maneouvre dice when I crit. 112 hit points seems solid enough for now especially with a cleric usually in the group and a 22 AC.

From an optimisation stand-point, between Con +2 and Resilient, I do think I get more benefit out of Resilient at this point, especially in the Rage of Demons season where madness is prevalent. I realise I could've put that 13 into Dex or Wis to optimise, but that wasn't the question I was asking, and nor would it be the character I've envisioned for over twenty years and yet not been able to realise until 5e due it never quite fitting with the system mechanics. Part of his 'thing' is to be very resistant to effects. By 19th-level, he'll still have 20 Strength & Con, so it's not like I'm losing out, just delaying.

Pretty much the only way I'd drop Resilient (Charisma) at all, is if I could somehow work Tavern Brawler into the feat roster without sacrificing the 14 Charisma. He does ever so love a good punch up :smallsmile:

[MarkTriumphant]

1st: Shield Master.
4th: Resilient (Dexterity).
6th: Resilient (Wisdom).
8th: Strength +2.


Waaay to late in the game to change it, but as far as I can work out, this is against RAW. Each feat may only be taken once unless the text of the feat says otherwise. The feat is "Resilient", not "Resilient (Ability)", so you can only have it once.

[MarkTriumphant]

So you know where you can take your attitude, don't you?


I'd say you're being over-sensitive there. I didn't see any attitude, just a mildly humorous way of saying that +2 Con was the one he would have picked.

[steppedonad4]

Waaay to late in the game to change it, but as far as I can work out, this is against RAW. Each feat may only be taken once unless the text of the feat says otherwise. The feat is "Resilient", not "Resilient (Ability)", so you can only have it once.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/651525101901365248

Well, ****.

[kaoskonfety]

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/651525101901365248

Well, ****.

In your defence I think this being 'house ruled' (or just outright missed as a rule) to allow taking this specific feat repeatedly is fairly common.
I allow it (but its never come up) mostly on the grounds it doesn't REALLY make you more powerful, it just makes you suck less at things you generally kinda suck at, even with the feat.
Unless its a Formal League or Tournament game, verify with the DM (if they've allowed it so far they will probably continue to allow it, for consitancy).

[Malifice]

My character also has proficiency in every other saving throw except Intelligence

How? You can only take the resilient feat once.

[Malifice]

In your defence I think this being 'house ruled' (or just outright missed as a rule) to allow taking this specific feat repeatedly is fairly common.
I allow it (but its never come up) mostly on the grounds it doesn't REALLY make you more powerful, it just makes you suck less at things you generally kinda suck at, even with the feat.
Unless its a Formal League or Tournament game, verify with the DM (if they've allowed it so far they will probably continue to allow it, for consitancy).

I wouldnt allow it.

I do allow half prof to non prof saves though.

[steppedonad4]

In your defence I think this being 'house ruled' (or just outright missed as a rule) to allow taking this specific feat repeatedly is fairly common.
I allow it (but its never come up) mostly on the grounds it doesn't REALLY make you more powerful, it just makes you suck less at things you generally kinda suck at, even with the feat.
Unless its a Formal League or Tournament game, verify with the DM (if they've allowed it so far they will probably continue to allow it, for consitancy).

It's AL so lucky I know about it now before I started play with it. Back to the drawing board. This entire thread is now dead to me :smallredface:

[PoeticDwarf]

So you can choose between a +1 in a dumpstat and a bad save OR +2 in a very handy stat.

Go for constitution and wonder why you wanted resilent cha anyway.

[HoarsHalberd]

I'd imagine this is a toll thread. But of the two options, +2 con. Always. +1 Hp/level, increase to con saves and con checks.

[WickerNipple]

I'd imagine this is a toll thread. But of the two options, +2 con. Always. +1 Hp/level, increase to con saves and con checks.

Seems to be. Presenting a seemingly easy decision while withholding all the info that might make the 'bad' decision valuable, then jumping on the ones who go for the easy answer. Clearly: it's a trap.

[Maxilian]

Lol, you give me a smart-arse, condescending attitude and then complain that I am the one being condescending. Yeah, off to ignore you go buddy.

He was being funny (i understand that it may have sound a little insulting, but that was not his point at all, in the end IMHO his comment was really helpful!)

[TrollCapAmerica]

I havr Moon Druid in my game with high physical stats that blew his feats on Durable and Weapon Master. You couldn't tell him his character was garbage though no matter how little he contributes or how often he needs to be saved by me.

Im betting tjis guy is the same way. Grab Con and try not to drag your pafty down too much.

[krugaan]

I havr Moon Druid in my game with high physical stats that blew his feats on Durable and Weapon Master. You couldn't tell him his character was garbage though no matter how little he contributes or how often he needs to be saved by me.

Im betting tjis guy is the same way. Grab Con and try not to drag your pafty down too much.

Durable maybe ... weaponmaster? Uh... can any moon druid forms use weapons ... maybe?

Short answer, don't save him, lol. It should be difficult to kill moon druids no matter how unoptimized they are anyway, unless he's playing unintelligently.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Durable maybe ... weaponmaster? Uh... can any moon druid forms use weapons ... maybe?

Short answer, don't save him, lol. It should be difficult to kill moon druids no matter how unoptimized they are anyway, unless he's playing unintelligently.

I hear ya. Im just kinda pointing the type of player that cant build a character to save thidr life and refuses to acknowledge any flaws. The amout of Yabbuts I keep getting is insane

"Yabbut look at how much health I gdt back every rest"

"Yabbut I can use that mace of disruption we found now"

"Yabbut I might have to make a Cha save at some point in my career"

[krugaan]

I hear ya. Im just kinda pointing the type of player that cant build a character to save thidr life and refuses to acknowledge any flaws. The amout of Yabbuts I keep getting is insane

"Yabbut look at how much health I gdt back every rest"

"Yabbut I can use that mace of disruption we found now"

"Yabbut I might have to make a Cha save at some point in my career"

Wow, no one else can use maces? Otherwise that *might* be useful. Uh, sort of.

also, lulz, Yabbut the Mun Drood.

"I tern myself into uh bare."

[AvatarVecna]

Strictly taking into account stuff in the Player's Handbook (not even the Monster Manual), there's over a hundred ways of calling for a Constitution save, while there's only ~30 or so that call for a Charisma save. The Constitution saves could be preventing anything from "some piddly damage" (in the case of a couple cantrips) to literal Save-Or-Die spells; meanwhile, Charisma saves are generally to prevent a spell from messing with your mind/soul stuff, such as via possession or the like (more severe than the lower end Con stuff, less severe than the higher end). Furthermore, it should be pointed out that extra Con means extra HP, and Con saves are used for Concentration (which you care about if you're a spellcaster, but don't otherwise). On the other end of it, Charisma boosts 3 skills that are fairly useful (and also boosts Performance! *rimshot*). It should also be noted that few individuals are so lucky as to not have to worry about increasing their saves any further; thus, even somebody specializing in Con saves can always benefit from another +2 to Con, since that increases their odds of succeeding on the save by 5%.

Optimally speaking...Con +2 is the superior choice. That said, Resilient (Charisma) isn't a bad choice, it's actually pretty decent, especially if you're making use of the social skills. That said, since both options are fairly useful (even if one is arguably far more useful than the other), just take whichever one makes the most sense for your character: what have they been training themselves to do? Have they been toughening up, or have they been getting a better sense of self, boosting their confidence and learning to be more assertive without being aggressive?

[AvatarVecna]

Durable maybe ... weaponmaster? Uh... can any moon druid forms use weapons ... maybe?

Short answer, don't save him, lol. It should be difficult to kill moon druids no matter how unoptimized they are anyway, unless he's playing unintelligently.

Seconding this. Durable's a decent feat, although it's arguably less useful on a Moon Druid, since them taking HP damage in their regular form means they've ****ed up. But Weapon Master? Even if you ignore that Moon Druids don't really need to use weapons, Weapon Master is terrible all on its own, no matter who's taking it.

[krugaan]

AvatarVecna, your response is both reasonable, intelligent, and polite, all three of which are not acceptable in this thread.

Please rephrase your response in the form of wry humor which could easily be misconstrued as an insult.

[AvatarVecna]

AvatarVecna, your response is both reasonable, intelligent, and polite, all three of which are not acceptable in this thread.Linguistically speaking, I'm pretty sure the bolded word is only supposed to be used when indicating that two qualities are personified by the sentence's subject, and you have three descriptors here. Normally, I wouldn't be particularly nitpicky about such a small thing, but then again...


Please rephrase your response in the form of wry humor which could easily be misconstrued as an insult.

...you did ask for it.

[krugaan]

Linguistically speaking, I'm pretty sure the bolded word is only supposed to be used when indicating that two qualities are personified by the sentence's subject, and you have three descriptors here. Normally, I wouldn't be particularly nitpicky about such a small thing, but then again...



...you did ask for it.

touché...

douchebag.




(lol)

[Mr.Moron]

Neither of these two options increase your DPR and therefore totally incorrect. Why are you even playing this game if you aren't trying to maximize your DPR?

[Shaofoo]

Neither of these two options increase your DPR and therefore totally incorrect. Why are you even playing this game if you aren't trying to maximize your DPR?

You are right, the OP should clearly have picked Great Weapon Master. This is obviously the best feat choice ever in the history of D&D. In fact his feat choices should've been.

level 1: Great Weapon Master
level 4-19: LOL doesn't matter cause you'll be melting faces with Great Weapon Master, don't ask how you can melt faces with a great sword; if you must ask that then you obviously aren't cool enough for GWM.

[krugaan]

i'm glad to see that people are getting into the spirit of this thread.

It is a little odd that he's picked all these tanky feats and yet has overlooked sentinel, although I really don't know what role his character plays in the party.

[steppedonad4]

You know, for a bunch of people that constantly insist on being polite and erudite, the level of antagonistic snark and vitriolic criticism of people's choices is incredibly high here. It's no wonder this place has a bad reputation.

[MaxWilson]

I havr Moon Druid in my game with high physical stats that blew his feats on Durable and Weapon Master. You couldn't tell him his character was garbage though no matter how little he contributes or how often he needs to be saved by me.

Eh. Pure Moon Druids are never garbage. You could have 8s in all stats, and blow all your ASIs on the most worthless feats imaginable (maybe Durable/Weapon Master/Savage Attacks/Elemental Adept/Athletic?) and a smart player could sit down with that character in any given session and still have a blast playing. Unlike classes with spells known instead of spells prepared, you cannot lock yourself out of all the good options with a Moon Druid.


You know, for a bunch of people that constantly insist on being polite and erudite, the level of antagonistic snark and vitriolic criticism of people's choices is incredibly high here. It's no wonder this place has a bad reputation.

If I've been at all snarky with you, I apologize. Such was not my intent.