Why does Archery use Dexterity?

[deathbymanga]

an Archer in D&D needs good Dexterity because that's the stat that decides damage, but in real life, AIM decides how deadly your shot is, not how fast you are. fast just means you can fire more shots. an Archer's damage is decided by the strength of the bow. So long as both Archers are equally accurate, the damage will be the same, no matter how fast they are. And most archers are trained to be able to pull the bow back with ease. If you are Proficient in Longbows, you should have the necessary strength needed to pull back a bow.

AIM and VISION fall under PERCEPTION, which is a Wisdom skill. So why is Archery a Dex thing, when it should be a wisdom thing?

[hymer]

Dexterity traditionally is the stat that gives us, among other things, eye-hand coordination. Which you would use for aiming.

[Sigreid]

Dexterity includes reflexes, balance, hand -eye coordination and precise muscle control.

[deathbymanga]

Dexterity traditionally is the stat that gives us, among other things, eye-hand coordination. Which you would use for aiming.


Dexterity includes reflexes, balance, hand -eye coordination and precise muscle control.

Yes Hand-Eye Coordination, except your hand is perfectly straight (well, not perfectly) and steady. In fact, an Archer benefits from never moving their hand. At best they're moving their shoulder to adjust their sights. But AIMING is still the main focus of an archer's damage. and Aiming still falls under Perception

[BRC]

Yes Hand-Eye Coordination, except your hand is perfectly straight (well, not perfectly) and steady. In fact, an Archer benefits from never moving their hand. At best they're moving their shoulder to adjust their sights. But AIMING is still the main focus of an archer's damage. and Aiming still falls under Perception

Not really.

I mean, sure, an argument could be made that you're spotting a weak point in your opponent's armor, or doing quick mental math to lead the shot against a moving foe, both of which would fall under Wisdom, but actually shooting a bow requires a lot more physical coordination than just being Good at Looking.

Have you ever used a bow on an archery range? I have, I was terrible at it. I missed the target altogether more often than not. And yet, I could see the bulls-eye perfectly.

Perception is about noticing subtle or hidden things. It applies for spotting an opponent hiding in trees, but actually putting an arrow there is all about dexterity.

[MaxWilson]

Dexterity includes reflexes, balance, hand -eye coordination and precise muscle control.

It's a goofy D&D-ism that Dex and Str tend to be inversely correlated for PCs. Here on Earth, precise muscle control requires pretty toned muscles, especially precise muscle control while controlling a bow with heavy pull.

But that's just how D&D biology works.

[BRC]

It's a goofy D&D-ism that Dex and Str tend to be inversely correlated for PCs. Here on Earth, precise muscle control requires pretty toned muscles, especially precise muscle control while controlling a bow with heavy pull.

But that's just how D&D biology works.

It's best to think of the stats as reflecting common heroic archetypes than anything.

Conan used a big sword, and was a big, strong dude. Strength is your conan-ness.

Robin Hood used a fencing sword and a bow, he was known for being lithe and quick. Dexterity is your RobinHooditude.

Really, both men would require lots of physical strength (Bows are NOT EASY TO PULL BACK) AND a hefty amount of coordination (All the muscle power in the world won't let you do anything if you're swinging wildly with a two-hander), but we separate the stats to simulate different types of characters.

[Sigreid]

It's a goofy D&D-ism that Dex and Str tend to be inversely correlated for PCs. Here on Earth, precise muscle control requires pretty toned muscles, especially precise muscle control while controlling a bow with heavy pull.

But that's just how D&D biology works.

Hehe yeah, it would be very odd for someone to have precise muscle control and not have a decent strength. Power and precision need each other. But I acknowledge trying to model a reality with paper and dice is a big order.

[Sigreid]

Yes Hand-Eye Coordination, except your hand is perfectly straight (well, not perfectly) and steady. In fact, an Archer benefits from never moving their hand. At best they're moving their shoulder to adjust their sights. But AIMING is still the main focus of an archer's damage. and Aiming still falls under Perception

Hand - eye corrdination is pretty specifically can your hand move straight to what your eye is looking at without having to watch your hand do it.

[eastmabl]

Why do we use Dexterity to determine Armor Class, when it's perhaps more important to know how to avoid being hit (Wis, Int) than it is to have really good eye/hand coordination?

It's an imperfect simulation of real life.

[Daishain]

Why do we use Dexterity to determine Armor Class, when it's perhaps more important to know how to avoid being hit (Wis, Int) than it is to have really good eye/hand coordination?

It's an imperfect simulation of real life.
All the knowledge in the world won't help you avoid blows if one's fast twitch muscles are not up to the task of actually pulling the maneuver off.

That kind of thing is typically left to trained muscle memory rather than any form of conscious knowledge in any case.

[Sigreid]

Why do we use Dexterity to determine Armor Class, when it's perhaps more important to know how to avoid being hit (Wis, Int) than it is to have really good eye/hand coordination?

It's an imperfect simulation of real life.
Only monks know why they aren't hit. The rest just flail wildly wondering why they aren't hit. /joke

[DemonSlayer6]

As someone who has fired a bow and rifles, it's not always easy to keep your arm straight. Your body wants to move, and there's all these little movements your body does when it can't do the bigger movements.

So you need hand-eye coordination.

You also need hand-eye coordination to aim and line the shot in order to properly aim so that you can potentially hit what you aim at.

-----

Of course you would also need to use strength to pull the string back and fire the bow. But given how D&D isn't a perfect copy of reality, hopefully we can permit even weak characters to use ranged weapons effectively.

[smcmike]

It's a game. The stats are all silly if you think about them too much. So don't.

In real life, performing any difficult physical task well requires strength AND dexterity AND endurance AND mental strength AND smarts (though physical smarts are different in kind from, say, calculus smarts). And good eyes, too (how many MLB players have bad eyes? Very very few, I'd bet), though where those actually fit in to DND isn't necessarily clear to me.

[Raxxius]

The best boxers in the world don't equate the most intellectual. Yet they duck and slip punches with amazing reflexes

Do you stop to look at real life experiences?

[ChelseaNH]

If I were creating a homebrewed system, I'd use Dexterity for fine motor control and Agility for gross motor control. But then I'd also want to have Speed and Endurance, as well as Strength, and then players would whine about it all being so complicated. So Dex it is.

[Hawkstar]

Dexterity has almost nothing to do with speed, and everything to do with manual precision.

[Tanarii]

Of course you would also need to use strength to pull the string back and fire the bow. But given how D&D isn't a perfect copy of reality, hopefully we can permit even weak characters to use ranged weapons effectively.There have been plenty of versions of D&D where a Str penalty applied to damage with a bow. You used a Crossbow if you were high Dex & low Str, and wanted to use a ranged weapon effectively.

[krugaan]

honestly, the reason is balance.

having to MAD to be a decent archer would be terrible.

[Sigreid]

If I were creating a homebrewed system, I'd use Dexterity for fine motor control and Agility for gross motor control. But then I'd also want to have Speed and Endurance, as well as Strength, and then players would whine about it all being so complicated. So Dex it is.

The old Star Frontiers system broke all the stats into pairs. You rolled and then you could shift some from one half to the other. For example, there was Strength And Stamina. You rolled and the default was the same number for each, but you could choose to move a limited number of points to have more stamina in proportion to strength, for example.

[djreynolds]

Strength is power, sheer force. Sprinting and heaving. Dexterity is muscle tone from years of exercise and muscle memory.

Now obviously in the game, and in real life shooting is about breathing, aiming, etc. Some of this is trained and can be practiced and is expressed through proficiency bonuses. But some of this is just good old fashioned DNA and working out. Olympic riflemen and archers are in really good shape.

So strength and dexterity are both muscle, just one is power and one is tone. That's why finesse guys can use dexterity on damage with finesse weapons, weapons designed for surgical hits and speed. And heavy weapons require power muscles to make them work.

Throwing a spear takes some oomph, some power. Look at a javelin or shot put thrower in the Olympics, and look at the archery people.

[Malifice]

an Archer in D&D needs good Dexterity because that's the stat that decides damage, but in real life, AIM decides how deadly your shot is, not how fast you are. fast just means you can fire more shots. an Archer's damage is decided by the strength of the bow. So long as both Archers are equally accurate, the damage will be the same, no matter how fast they are. And most archers are trained to be able to pull the bow back with ease. If you are Proficient in Longbows, you should have the necessary strength needed to pull back a bow.

AIM and VISION fall under PERCEPTION, which is a Wisdom skill. So why is Archery a Dex thing, when it should be a wisdom thing?

Dexterity is Hand + Eye coordination.

Seeing something at a distance is one thing. Hitting it with something you shoot at it is something else entirely.

[rollingForInit]

I'd say because D&D's ability score system has been used for so long that changing it would be incredibly difficult, and traditionally, Dex is used for ranged attacks. D&D's combat system is by no means realistic, and it doesn't really strive to be. That's just how it is.

And really, using a longbow should require Strength as well as anything else. Crossbows should only be fired once every other round at most. Strength should be required for all kinds of swords. Etc. If we were being super realistic.

[djreynolds]

Dexterity encompasses a lot things. But steadying a shot and aiming is dexterity, drawing is strength, and putting it together is your experience. If you wanted to add wisdom to it for just being able to block out distractions, okay. Or constitution for sitting there and having to wait till you fire without tiring and shaking.

It ends up being to many variables and easy enough to leave it dexterity. Crossbows are punished without crossbow expert.