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ZhanStrider
2015-11-04, 02:40 PM
My character (sorcerer 4/swordsage 2) has infinite cantrips. We're facing a Dungeon that only has undead in it, so I'm trying to find out how to use infinite Disrupt Undead to best effect. I've got Bane Magic, so it's already at 3d6 damage. Are there any good metamagic feats that could up my damage/add to how many targets I can hit with it without increasing the spell level?

ComaVision
2015-11-04, 02:45 PM
Not exactly what you're asking for but Invisible Metamagic is a +0 and has some pretty effective uses.

Flickerdart
2015-11-04, 02:55 PM
Black Lore of Moil is +0 but it costs gold to use and deals negative energy damage, which doesn't help you. Lord of the Uttercold and Born of the Three Thunders are +0, but can't be applied to disrupt undead.

Note that there are ways to reduce metamagic costs to 0, so you can use real metamagic if you have the feats for it.

Werephilosopher
2015-11-04, 03:47 PM
My character (sorcerer 4/swordsage 2) has infinite cantrips. We're facing a Dungeon that only has undead in it, so I'm trying to find out how to use infinite Disrupt Undead to best effect. I've got Bane Magic, so it's already at 3d6 damage. Are there any good metamagic feats that could up my damage/add to how many targets I can hit with it without increasing the spell level?

Unless you reduce the cost of feats down to +0 as Flickerdart said, I don't think there's much that will increase damage or targets. However, City Spell converts half the damage into "city damage," which is practically typeless; good if you cast in a city and the targeted undead has immunity to positive energy.

Theodred theOld
2015-11-04, 05:04 PM
I second Invisible Spell. Try using it with any summons.

Mithril Leaf
2015-11-04, 11:30 PM
You can maybe Psychic Reformation or Retrain Arcane Thesis onto it for a while, which would let you use some other goodies.

Darrin
2015-11-04, 11:51 PM
Not exactly what you're asking for but Invisible Metamagic is a +0 and has some pretty effective uses when it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then, as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

There. Fixed that for you.

(Apologies to Holkins and Krahulik.)

Seriously, nothing good can come from that feat, even if you try and use it the way it was intended.

The go-to +0 Metamagic feats are usually Energy Substitution and Sanctum Spell. If you need a third one, try Lord of the Uttercold. Born of Three Thunders might also work, but watch out for the daze effect (add Quick Recovery from Lords of Madness for a Will save).

ZhanStrider
2015-11-06, 09:22 AM
Not exactly what you're asking for but Invisible Metamagic is a +0 and has some pretty effective uses.

I'm not even adamant about it being metamagic, i just want my Disrupt Undead to be as useful as possible, since its an infinite use ability for me.

ZhanStrider
2015-11-06, 09:23 AM
There. Fixed that for you.

(Apologies to Holkins and Krahulik.)

Seriously, nothing good can come from that feat, even if you try and use it the way it was intended.

The go-to +0 Metamagic feats are usually Energy Substitution and Sanctum Spell. If you need a third one, try Lord of the Uttercold. Born of Three Thunders might also work, but watch out for the daze effect (add Quick Recovery from Lords of Madness for a Will save).

Uttercold doesn't help against undead. Trying to get Disrupt Undead to be as powerful as possible.

Fouredged Sword
2015-11-06, 10:14 AM
I suggest you take versatile spellcaster and turn those unlimited cantrips into unlimited 1st level spells.

Segev
2015-11-06, 10:49 AM
Pshaw. Invisible Spell is perfectly fine with some applications. Summons are a bad fit, because it's so painfully unclear whether they actually are invisible or not, and whether they remain that way after attacking. But one of my favorite tricks is the old invisible obscuring mist or invisible fog trick. It only obstructs vision if you can see invisible things! So if you then cast invisibility while in an invisible obscuring mist, you can't be seen by things which can't see the invisible, and you are obscured from things which can!

bean illus
2015-11-06, 03:49 PM
Pshaw. Invisible Spell is perfectly fine with some applications. Summons are a bad fit, because it's so painfully unclear whether they actually are invisible or not, and whether they remain that way after attacking. But one of my favorite tricks is the old invisible obscuring mist or invisible fog trick. It only obstructs vision if you can see invisible things! So if you then cast invisibility while in an invisible obscuring mist, you can't be seen by things which can't see the invisible, and you are obscured from things which can!
That's a tidy trick for an infiltrator. Or of course, anybody.

Segev
2015-11-06, 05:01 PM
That's a tidy trick for an infiltrator. Or of course, anybody.

It's an excellent combination for sneak attackers. Just make sure YOU are not blinded by the invisible obscuring mist.

Rubik
2015-11-07, 03:26 PM
A sorcerer's hand crossbow (A&EG) can add damage in the way of an enhancement bonus, and you might be able to convince your DM to allow you to add weapon effects, as well. That +1 will be a lot more effective if you cast Greater Magic Weapon on it, and having a few weapon crystal effects from the MIC will help, as well. A level in factotum will add +Int to your shots a few times per encounter, and the Psionic Shot feat will increase your damage by +2d6. Make that sorcerer's hand crossbow out of deep crystal and add some power points to your build, and that's an additional +2d6. Your swordsage levels could add +2d6 sneak attack through Assassin's Stance (assuming Gravestrike), and there are some other maneuvers here and there which will add damage, as well. Make the sorcerer's hand an aptitude crossbow, and there's all sorts of stuff you could add to it, like using it for the Shadow Blade feat to add +Dex to your damage while you're in a Shadow Hand stance.

ZhanStrider
2015-11-09, 01:02 PM
A sorcerer's hand crossbow (A&EG) can add damage in the way of an enhancement bonus, and you might be able to convince your DM to allow you to add weapon effects, as well. That +1 will be a lot more effective if you cast Greater Magic Weapon on it, and having a few weapon crystal effects from the MIC will help, as well. A level in factotum will add +Int to your shots a few times per encounter, and the Psionic Shot feat will increase your damage by +2d6. Make that sorcerer's hand crossbow out of deep crystal and add some power points to your build, and that's an additional +2d6. Your swordsage levels could add +2d6 sneak attack through Assassin's Stance (assuming Gravestrike), and there are some other maneuvers here and there which will add damage, as well. Make the sorcerer's hand an aptitude crossbow, and there's all sorts of stuff you could add to it, like using it for the Shadow Blade feat to add +Dex to your damage while you're in a Shadow Hand stance.

I'm not taking psionics. I'm multiclassed enough as it is.

Flickerdart
2015-11-09, 01:12 PM
I'm not taking psionics. I'm multiclassed enough as it is.

You don't need to multiclass to use deep crystal, you just need a power point pool. This can be achieved via feats.

Segev
2015-11-09, 01:24 PM
You don't need to multiclass to use deep crystal, you just need a power point pool. This can be achieved via feats.

He was asking about how to use all-day cantrips, though. Without a solid investment in psionic classes, having enough PP to fuel deep crystal for more than a few shots isn't going to happen.

Flickerdart
2015-11-09, 01:58 PM
He was asking about how to use all-day cantrips, though. Without a solid investment in psionic classes, having enough PP to fuel deep crystal for more than a few shots isn't going to happen.
There's always the psicarnum thing for infinite PP.