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View Full Version : A player suddenly quit. What do I do?



Rusvul
2015-11-05, 12:53 AM
I run a 5th edition game over Roll20. The party consists of several IRL friends, as well as a friend-of-a-friend who wanted to play. We've done seven or eight sessions, one player has had a death and the party is doing quite well for itself- levels 2-4 at the moment. It's also worth noting that I'm not a good DM- I know the rules fairly well, but I've only been playing for a few years and my DMing experience is sharply limited. This manifests mostly in the form of shallow descriptions, long DM loading screens, and choppy dialogue, as I scramble to look up what that NPC's name was again.

Most of the party is composed of new players, with one 3.5/PF player. Because of this, and because I had been reading up 5e, I decided to give it a try, seeing as 5e is a lot simpler and easier to learn. I kind of like 5e. Apparently one of my players hates it.

The whole campaign, he seemed like he was legitimately having a good time. In the most recent session, though, he got rather frustrated. The party was invading an ancient tower built by an advanced civilization a long time ago. They crushed the weak security construct-drones (Slightly refluffed Modrons) on the first level, and observed that the drones started off neutral and targeted the character who was aggressive first- If they were out of range or incapacitated, the drones would target the next most aggressive. They solved a simple puzzle with some help from a Comprehend Languages spell, and progressed to the next floor.
Cue the tougher drones- Animated Armor this time, with the same sort of behaviour. The player who quit (the Cleric from here on out) did a quick investigation of a statue and decided to attack it. Creepy construct-overseer voice tells him to cut it out, he attacks again... Roll initiative. He gets cornered by constructs and knocked to zero pretty quickly- They have two slam attacks for 1d6 each, flanking gives them advantage, and I kept rolling criticals. He got knocked down to exact 0- He was frustrated because he apparently likes 3.5's death rules a lot better (I personally disagree, I find 5e's solution elegant) and in this case they would've been to his advantage- He would've dropped to zero and been free to use his action to heal himself. In the end, all was fine, the party had some difficulty beating down the constructs, but it wasn't too bad. An NPC healer (who had so far been entirely pacifistic, and as such not a target) stabilized him a round into his bleeding, and he didn't die. Still, the Cleric insisted he'd rather play 3.5. I told him that we were playing 5e because it was easier to learn and we had newbies, and that we had all agreed upon the system. (When we had chosen 5e, he hadn't put up resistance, he was cool with it then.)

The party made sure he was alright, then they looted the room. They found a number of mundane materials... As well as a few pounds of mithral and adamantine ore. Another character the Cleric's player plays has an adamantine axe and he really likes it- So his immediate reaction is 'Yes! I can get a cool sword!' As part of introducing the adamantine, I said it was three pounds worth- And since admantine is denser than iron or steel, coupled with the fact that it's unrefined ore and not ingots, it wouldn't get very far.
There are no official rules for adamantine in 5e. I ad-libbed something along the lines of 'When used to make a weapon, it's nonmagical, has a +1 to hit and damage, and deals double damage to items.' Which may have been a little overpowered, but whatever.

From here the player overreacted, I think. (Perhaps not. I am biased.) He got into an argument with the Rogue about who should get an adamantine weapon. They got rather ahead of themselves, and I think letting them do that without a 'Well, you can talk about that later, you need to find a town and a blacksmith before it's relevant,' was a mistake. That may have defused the whole thing. The Cleric wanted a shiny (Or matte, as the case may be) new weapon because he likes adamantine. The Rogue wanted a new weapon because he dual wields and has a low-grade dagger, while the Cleric has a named mithral greatsword with fey powers pillaged from an unseelie knight. Which I think is reasonable... Thinking that was a mistake, I let myself become biased.
I told them again that it was a small quantity of metal- After refining, maybe enough for a dagger or a pikehead or something. This caused a discussion about realism, versimilitude, and how the Cleric should totally be allowed to make a longsword or a morningstar out of it because they're 3 pounds-ish- and that's with a handle. I kind of shut him down on that. He then drew assumptions based on 3.5, (that a Rogue can only sneak attack constructs with an adamantine weapon,) complained about how damage reduction doesn't work identically to in 3.5, and declared he hates 5e. He assumed that sneak attacking from flank was a 5e thing, I told him that no, that's in 3.5 as well... A conversation about how you should only be allowed to sneak attack from stealth (or that it should be called something different, like Vital Attack) followed.
Then he asked if he could leave. (As in, quit the campaign.) I told him that I wouldn't try to stop him, but that "I like playing with you and I would urge you to reconsider." "Okay, bye, then." He hung up.

What the heck do I do with this? I know him in real life, he's a good friend of mine, he's usually a pretty cool guy. He overreacts sometimes, but usually not to this extent. His leaving won't kill the game or anything, but I'd really rather he stay- He's fun to play with.)

I left him alone for the rest of the night, figuring that he was upset and I should let him cool off. I don't know what to do next. ...Help me please?

TL;DR: A good friend (who seemed to be enjoying the game) got mad about loot distribution and system differences between 5e and 3.5, he quit the game really suddenly, and now I don't know what to do.

Fable Wright
2015-11-05, 01:16 AM
I left him alone for the rest of the night, figuring that he was upset and I should let him cool off. I don't know what to do next. ...Help me please?

Item number one: A TL; DR would significantly help people get through your wall of text, either before or after.

Second, no, rogues can't sneak attack constructs with Adamantine weapons in 3.5.

Third... perhaps a good way to start would be to ask him what he was expecting?

Ruslan
2015-11-05, 01:18 AM
Having a player who constantly says how much he hates the game is toxic for the group's health. He may be your friend, but he's poisoning the group. Let him cool off, he may very well ask to be reinstated tomorrow, but if he doesn't stop with the toxic behavior, no sense in taking him back. Anyway, you don't have to play D&D with someone to be their friend.

Rusvul
2015-11-05, 01:27 AM
Aagh, sorry about the text wall, I'm long winded sometimes. TL;DR added.

What do you mean by 'ask him what he expected?' From the game, from the system, from me as a DM, from that specific encounter?

@Rusian: I'm inclined to agree... The confusing thing is, he expressed no preference for 3.5 or dislike of 5e before tonight.

Fable Wright
2015-11-05, 01:42 AM
What do you mean by 'ask him what he expected?' From the game, from the system, from me as a DM, from that specific encounter?

Mostly, ask what he expected the game to be like. Not from the encounter, but more what he was hoping for at the table, from the system, the players, and the DM. Either you'll get a better understanding of why he quit, and you'll no longer feel bad about him leaving, or he'll realize that he was being silly and overreacting, and/or he'll readjust his expectations. It's the least confrontational and most effective way of resolving the matter I can think of.

Templarkommando
2015-11-05, 02:49 AM
I'm going to assume that you want this fellow to return to your game, because if not, simply allowing him to bow out is an easy enough thing to do, though repairing that relationship may take some doing.

The first direction that I would take is the personal one. Let him know that you appreciate his participation in your campaign, and if other members of the party feel that way, let him know how they feel as well, or encourage those players to let him know privately. Things got really heated for me and my DM once. He was actually a PC in this encounter and another fellow was DMing, I rolled a kobold cleric and his character overreacted and killed my kobold. Yeah, he probably shouldn't have done that, but if you encounter a kobold in a dungeon, you don't generally assume that its friendly. So, probably my fault more than anything but anyway... I got really overexcited in the moment about a level 10 kobold in a one shot campaign. It could have ruined a friendship that I've spent the last 10 years cultivating. Give him some time to cool down, and when you feel that he would be receptive to returning to the table, invite him back.

The second direction that I would take is mechanical. 3 pounds of adamantine ore costs what? According to the 3.5 DMG (I don't have any 5 ed. books to look at) making a weapon out of adamantine just adds 3000 gp to its cost. It doesn't specify what kind of weapon that is either. It wouldn't take too much effort for him to spring 3000 gp or so to score his very own brand new adamantine sword, if that's what will make him happy. Without a lot of effort, he could have an adamantine bow, that fires adamantine arrows, an adamantine suit of armor, a collection of adamantine weaponry and an adamantine tea tray with matching tea set if that's what he really wants.

You're dealing with one of about two things game-wise. This is either a power-gamer or a slayer as per the 4th edition rules. Possibly one of the others, but that really sounds like the behavior that's going on. This character wants loot, and he wants loot that might be appropriate to his character. Now it may be that he's a little spoiled - you said that he had a named weapon, which sounds like a powerful thing, possibly more powerful than what an adamantine sword might be, but I'm just guessing. Does he think that something that *you* are doing is making him not want to play? Because that would make it a little easier to fix. Simply try to be a little more generous with treasure, but on the other hand, if you're already being generous with treasure, then you need to convince him that he's not getting the shaft when another character gets a non-magical +1 weapon. Talk about how your rogue might have a nice weapon already, but he can actually wield a second one because of his build. This overall increases the effectiveness of his entire party better than it would if the adamantine sword just sits in the bag of holding to look pretty. In the end, the fact that the rogue gets good gear means that eventually more and better gear will be coming his way as well.

Usually - at least in my experience - clerics and fighters are some of the more gear dependent classes in the game. That's not without exception, but when weapons or armor drops, odds are it's going to the fighter if it's an upgrade. The next step down is likely the cleric unless there's a rolling system where the cleric can put some of his loot into the pot in order to get the armor. As the party's cleric, a LOT of good gear is going to be coming his way if he just waits for it.

One final word - this isn't a situation where you can just get in his face and argue your way out of this. These points can be made, but they need to be made gently. Less on the "Listen here jerk, you're so dumb you forgot...blah blah blah," and more along the lines of "You know I was thinking the other day about how we can both have what we want where D&D is concerned. What do you think about this...?"

themaque
2015-11-05, 03:04 AM
Adding my two cents, I agree with letting him cool down.

Maybe there is something else going on that is bothering him, and you just happened to be something that boiled over into something bigger. If you have gamed with him before, you might know if this is normal behavior or something more.

He's your friend, so talking to him calmly face to face in neutral ground should be no problem. Remind him how much you and the other players enjoy his company at the game. Ask him if it's just 5e or something else about the game that has been a problem? Has he been keeping quite and just gotten to much? Is there a personality conflict with the Rogue player?

Just from your description, self admittedly biased as it may be, you sound like the only thing you didn't do was shut it down early. But you didn't really expect it to blow up this big.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out.

veti
2015-11-05, 04:19 AM
First: don't overreact.

"Overreacting", in this context, would include "any further attempt on your part to get him to rejoin". I wouldn't discuss the game any further with him at all, unless he brings the subject up first. If he's a friend, then make sure you keep talking/seeing him in other, non-game contexts and treat him just the same as ever. Don't get needy. Don't press. Don't make him not want to see you any more, because that's how I'd react if someone only ever wanted to talk about something I don't want to. (That includes, don't keep looking reproachfully at him or smiling bravely or otherwise acting like he's done anything even slightly bad. Because he really hasn't.) In short, don't let a game poison a friendship.

Second: if he hadn't played 5e before, then played it a bit and decided he didn't like it - that's not necessarily a damning indictment of your DMing skills. He was willing to try it, and only then decided he didn't like it. What could be more reasonable than that? It's also possible that he's simply invested a lot of time in mastering the 3.x rules, and resents all that minutiae being made obsolete. He wouldn't be the first to react that way - just read any version of Edition Wars on this very forum.

Third: what really pulls me up short in your account is that he actually asked your permission to leave. Like you could stop him if you tried. What's that about?

Rusvul
2015-11-05, 09:42 AM
-snip-

Your first point is sound advice, more or less what I was planning on. Certainly something I'll do.

Your second point is also a good one... From a 3.5 standpoint, at least. My setting is a low-magic swamp where mining is really hard. Iron is a valuable commodity, farmers have to settle for copper (which works about as well as you'd imagine) and fancy metals like adamantine and mithral are almost unheard of. I've been doing a poor job of the whole 'metal and magic is rare!' thing so far, but I try.

I've already been far more generous with magic (and fancy metal) items then I intended... The Cleric is the most magicked-out in the party, followed by the Rogue. The Cleric has a full set of mithral plate and a greatsword that casts Sleep, Misty Step, and Faerie Fire- No magic pluses, but those are rare and powerful in 5e given the bounded accuracy system. The Rogue has a cloak that lets him breathe underwater and swim really well and a dagger that deals 1d6 extra poison damage a few times a day. The Cleric had a pile with the same poison ability, but he dropped it for the greatsword.

As for your last paragraph, I've been trying to do that... Are you implying that I *have* been like that, or just that I should be careful to not be?


More words later, when I can type using an actual keyboard and not a touchscreen.

Geddy2112
2015-11-05, 10:09 AM
I am going to mostly repeat what others have said-let him cool off, let him come crawling back(they always do), keep communication open about other things if you are friends, etc etc. He also just might not like the edition, or be a grognard and dislike anything that is not 3.5. Some people don't like different editions or systems, and there is nothing wrong with that. Let him go and then if you ever have a 3.5 game invite him back.

If he has a personality problem with you or the rogue player, that is going to be tougher to address, and probably better that he leaves in that case.

People ragequit, and for the most part they come back after they cool off. Sometimes they don't, and if so then let them go.

Templarkommando
2015-11-05, 11:35 AM
Your first point is sound advice, more or less what I was planning on. Certainly something I'll do.

Your second point is also a good one... From a 3.5 standpoint, at least. My setting is a low-magic swamp where mining is really hard. Iron is a valuable commodity, farmers have to settle for copper (which works about as well as you'd imagine) and fancy metals like adamantine and mithral are almost unheard of. I've been doing a poor job of the whole 'metal and magic is rare!' thing so far, but I try.

I've already been far more generous with magic (and fancy metal) items then I intended... The Cleric is the most magicked-out in the party, followed by the Rogue. The Cleric has a full set of mithral plate and a greatsword that casts Sleep, Misty Step, and Faerie Fire- No magic pluses, but those are rare and powerful in 5e given the bounded accuracy system. The Rogue has a cloak that lets him breathe underwater and swim really well and a dagger that deals 1d6 extra poison damage a few times a day. The Cleric had a pile with the same poison ability, but he dropped it for the greatsword.

As for your last paragraph, I've been trying to do that... Are you implying that I *have* been like that, or just that I should be careful to not be?


More words later, when I can type using an actual keyboard and not a touchscreen.

I guess I could see how it would look like that. I didn't intend to offer any offense though, I just know how I am. For sure, I get a little overzealous about D&D sometimes, and in a way that I might not realize it would be off-putting to others. All that I'm saying is that I would be careful about the subject. You may not be like I am at all, but I just thought that I'd encourage a little caution. If he's not receptive to talking about it, let it rest for a while longer. I'm pulling for you here.

Rusvul
2015-11-08, 11:30 PM
@Templar: No offense taken. I believe I understand your meaning more clearly now.

@Veti, on your third point: I really don't get that either. From his tone of voice, it seemed rather rhetorical, I think he already knew the answer.


I've sent the Cleric a message asking him (as politely and eloquently as I possibly could) whether he thinks I've done anything wrong or if he just doesn't like 5e. He was vague and said he wanted to talk to me and the Warlock tomorrow. Will update you on what happens then.

Malifice
2015-11-09, 10:25 AM
flanking gives them advantage,

Aside from how to deal with the player, I strongly suggest you ditch this optional rule from the DMG.

There is a fair bit of talk on it around these parts as to why.

dude123nice
2015-11-09, 12:47 PM
{scrubbed}

Rusvul
2015-11-09, 02:04 PM
@Malifice: Yeah, coming from 3.5 I sometimes assume that some of the same things that grant circumstance modifiers also grant advantage... But given the presence of the Help action, and monsters with Pack Tactics, advantage from flanking does seem a bit much.

@dude123nice: ..?

Micah Watt
2015-11-09, 08:32 PM
Talk to him about what's really bothering him. Is it the system, is it your GM style, is it the other player/s or is it the fact that he felt entitled to the loot over another player?

You need to get to the root of the issue, then decide how to address it.

I'm all for letting him cool down, but if you don't find out why he went off, it's likely to happen again in the future

Malifice
2015-11-09, 10:07 PM
@Malifice: Yeah, coming from 3.5 I sometimes assume that some of the same things that grant circumstance modifiers also grant advantage... But given the presence of the Help action, and monsters with Pack Tactics, advantage from flanking does seem a bit much.

Yeah mate, I tried it myself on my first campaign. It lasted a session before I scrapped it. It quickly becomes perma advantage every single attack for all.

Advantage is huge, and thanks to 5e's flexible movement rules, its dead easy to get flanking every single round.

I strongly suggest removing it.