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View Full Version : Nude Bard/Sublime Chord/Heartwarder/Vow of Poverty Build



Talya
2007-05-27, 12:08 PM
*insert tongue in cheek*

Going to have some fun with this build, thought of it during a monk thread.

For those unfamiliar with the Heartwarder class, it's in Forgotten Realms: Faiths and Pantheons. It's a 1d4 hit dice, full caster progression PrC with a divine element: they must worship Sune, the goddess of beauty, love and passion. Among miscellaneous flavorful abilities, they also gain a +1 inherent bonus to charisma at every odd level. I have only homebrewed a single exalted feat for this, which I thought fit the style and was very amusing. I'll detail it as i go, I just figured a "Vow of Nudity" could be funny for a character with a vow of poverty, as they can't wear armor anyway.

40 point buy, human.
Str8, Dex14, Con14, Int14, Wis14, Cha18

Level 1 (Bard): Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty
Level 2 (Bard): Nymph's Kiss [Exalted]
Level 3 (Bard): Dodge (for PrC)
Level 4 (Bard): Nimbus of Light [Exalted], +1 charisma
Level 6 (Bard): Spell Focus (Enchantment -for PrC), Vow of Nudity [Exalted]*
Level 7 (Bard): +2 charisma (VoP)
Level 8 (Bard): Holy Radiance [Exalted], +1 charisma
Level 9 (Bard): Mobility (for PrC)
Level 10 (Heartwarder): Stigmata [Exalted], +1 inherent to charisma
Level 11 (Sublime chord): +2 charisma, +2 constitution
Level 12 (Heartwarder): Nonlethal Substitution [metamagic], Vow of Nonviolence [Exalted], +1 charisma
Level 13 (Heartwarder): +1 inherent to Charisma
Level 14 (Heartwarder): Blessed of the Seven Sisters[Exalted]
Level 15 (Heartwarder): Chaos Music, +1 inherent to Charisma, +2 charisma, +2 constitution, +2 dexterity
Level 16 (Heartwarder): Vow of Peace [Exalted], +1 charisma
Level 17 (Heartwarder): +1 inherent to charisma
Level 18 (Heartwarder): Enchanting Song, Gift of Faith [Exalted]
Level 19 (Heartwarder): +1 inherent to charisma, +2 charisma, +2 constitution, +2 dexterity, +2 wisdom
Level 20 (Sublime Chord): Gift of Faith [Exalted], +1 charisma

This character ends up with full 10 bard/10 sublime chord spellcasting. They also have 14 daily uses of bardic music, and can use the songs of a 13th level bard. They have final ability scores of:
Str8, Dex18, Con20, Int14, Wis16, Cha36.
In addition, they have the following:
Armor Class: 36 (Flatfooted: 32, touch: 19)
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +16, Will: +26
BAB: +14, Ranged Touch: +24
Freedom of Movement, Energy Resistance (all) 15, Regeneration, Sustenance/Greater Sustenance, Permanent Trueseeing, Endure Elements, most manufactured weapons used against her shatter on contact (Vow of Peace), calming aura, damage reduction 10/evil, greater spell focus (enchantment) + spell penetration on spells with verbal components, creature type: Fey (fey transformation is a 10th level heartwarder bonus)

Spell DCs are +17 (+20 for enchantments,) has access to some very neat spells (blessed of the Seven sisters), Charisma based skills and checks receive a total of +17 as well.

Bonus spells: +4/+3/+3/+3/+3/+2/+2/+2/+2

*Vow of Nudity
You have taken a sacred vow never to withhold your beauty from the rest of the world.
Prerequisites: Sacred Vow, Charisma 15
Benefit: You are constantly surrounded by an awe-inspiring aura to a radius of 50 feet. Creatures within the aura must make a successful Will save (DC 10 + one-half your character level + your Cha modifier) or be affected by a Fascination effect. A creature that makes a successful saving throw and remains in the aura is unaffected until it leaves the aura and reenters. The aura is a mind-affecting, extraordinary compulsion. Allies gain +2 to this saving throw per day that they travel/work alongside you. After 5 days, they only become shaken rather than fascinated if they fail their save.
Special: To fullfill your vow, you must never willingly wear any item of clothing or armor that conceals your body. If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, or otherwise unintentionally (being forced into a straightjacket, for instance, a possible outcome of wandering city streets in the nude), you lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement spell. Merely having a blanket thrown over you which you immediately attempt to remove will not cause this result.

Knight_Of_Twilight
2007-05-27, 12:16 PM
Just the name, "Vow of Nudity" makes me giggle like a child...

Citizen Joe
2007-05-27, 12:21 PM
OK now make it a nymph and you get to add your charisma bonus as an AC deflection bonus and save bonus... plus the blinding and stunning effects.

Heh... Epic Nymph

Green Bean
2007-05-27, 12:24 PM
Nice, but make sure to keep this out of Illithid hands. :smallbiggrin: (though if that were the case, I'd certainly understand the 'shaken' effect)

psilontech
2007-05-27, 12:24 PM
An interesting build to say the least, but, I pray to God that the 14-16 year olds at the gaming shop don't find this thread and try to convince either DM's to let them use it, because I really don't want them playing retarded, slutty, naked female elves just because they're... you know, 14-16 :p. I Seriously they would play a male character to this, and I don't have a problem with male characters that play females ones... well, but Jesus, they just can't ;). heheh.

Anyway, cool build, I may have to tweak it to my own purposes and try it out next time one of my characters dies a horrific death to a child that rolls 3 20's and a 19 with a wooden rake against a near epic-level character... -_- Heh!:smallcool:

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 12:27 PM
OK now make it a nymph and you get to add your charisma bonus as an AC deflection bonus and save bonus... plus the blinding and stunning effects.

Heh... Epic Nymph

has to be human for the bonus feat, of course how hard could it be to convince a mage to polymorph you?

The wizened figure looks up from his dusty tome to see what he can only describe as an angel by way of an adolescent fantasty. Though posessing of almost all knowledge in the universe, mundane and arcane, he stutters as though a child, "can i h...he...he... help you?"

"Yes," the creature replies, with the voice of heaven itself, "I need you to... Damnit! Another heart attack. How hard is it to find a ninth level caster with a decent fort save around here?"

Renegade Paladin
2007-05-27, 12:28 PM
I dunno, the first line of the feat seems awfully prideful and vain for an exalted character.

Talya
2007-05-27, 12:28 PM
I really don't want them playing retarded, slutty, naked female elves just because they're... you know, 14-16

Just a minor point, they need to play retarded, slutty, naked female humans, not elves. Only a human (or...*shudder* Strongheart halfling) can get Vow of Poverty at level 1.

Citizen Joe
2007-05-27, 12:29 PM
Of course, at level 21, Sune would turn you into a Medusa for competing against Her beauty.

Talya
2007-05-27, 12:29 PM
I dunno, the first line of the feat seems awfully prideful and vain for an exalted character.

Are you familiar with the Goddess Sune? (I mean, she's a chaotic good Goddess with an order of paladins, as exalted as one can get...but she exemplifies vanity.)

Indon
2007-05-27, 12:30 PM
This vow seems very different from other exalted vows; generally, exalted vows work better when others take it as well... but, a party with three characters with Vow of Nudity would fall apart pretty quick; after five days, they'll all be inducing fear effects on each other with failed will saves, and fear effects stack!

"Oh, wow, naked people."
Five days later...
"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" *flees*

Talya
2007-05-27, 12:33 PM
Of course, at level 21, Sune would turn you into a Medusa for competing against Her beauty.

She's not THAT flighty...besides, her Charisma is 48. At 38, you're competing against Eilistraee and the like, though.

Tengu
2007-05-27, 12:34 PM
If I ever play DND, I'll make a Winston Churchill clone (the man had charisma, you can't refuse that) with this character build.

Talya
2007-05-27, 12:37 PM
This vow seems very different from other exalted vows; generally, exalted vows work better when others take it as well... but, a party with three characters with Vow of Nudity would fall apart pretty quick; after five days, they'll all be inducing fear effects on each other with failed will saves, and fear effects stack!

"Oh, wow, naked people."
Five days later...
"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!" *flees*

Heh...after a few more days they'd never fail the check, but yeah, I can see them all sitting around staring lustily at each other for a while.

Oh, for an extra cruel idea (this might be too evil to be "Exalted,") take vow of chastity.

Citizen Joe
2007-05-27, 12:39 PM
She's not THAT flighty...besides, her Charisma is 48. At 38, you're competing against Eilistraee and the like, though.

That's the mythological genesis of the Medusa. Some vain priestess claimed she was more beautiful than Aphrodite herself and turned that priestess into the legendary medusa. I think Sune and Aphrodite share the same pool so its likely that they would have shared stories.

Green Bean
2007-05-27, 12:44 PM
Heh...after a few more days they'd never fail the check, but yeah, I can see them all sitting around staring lustily at each other for a while.

Oh, for an extra cruel idea (this might be too evil to be "Exalted,") take vow of chastity.

You should probably add that Allies no longer have to make a save once they have a high enough bonus. Otherwise, they'd still risk being affected if they roll a natural 1.

endersdouble
2007-05-27, 12:48 PM
If I ever play DND, I'll make a Winston Churchill clone (the man had charisma, you can't refuse that) with this character build.

...If you ever make me think about Winston Churchill naked again, I'll...

Look, just don't. :smile:

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 12:50 PM
...If you ever make me think about Winston Churchill naked again, I'll...

Look, just don't. :smile:

don't worry I am sure he'd still have a cigar and top hat.

Tengu
2007-05-27, 12:53 PM
Due to the requirements of VoP, he'd have to make the tophat himself. And due to the requirements of VoN, he'd have to wear it really high on his head so it wouldn't cover anything. But yes, he'd have it. The cigar too.

Arakune
2007-05-27, 12:54 PM
that's a nice build for a BBEG, BASTARD! style!

he, THAT would be funny. the only problem it's a 18+ campaign.
on very kinds of ways :smallsigh: .

As you enter the room, the smell of a sweet scent emerges with a thin, pink smoke. The view are somehow... disturbing: dozen's of woman are naked, begging to be the next 'chosen slave'. The most disturbing though are not about the view itself, insted it's "maybe we should leave then here, or perhaps... join it?". As this twisted tough came, a voice of a man spreads from the room:
So, my beloved guests finally arrived. Please, come in.
The man it's also naked, folowed by three womans naked in his knee. His voice is soo powerfull and yet so calm and sweet. Anyone can acknowledge it.
The man's seed and soul shall give me strenght, the woman flesh shall give me immortal life. But do you dare the give away these beautifull woman a chance to live, do die for me?
The womans started to cry as he mentioned this, as if the death itself came to then.
Again, the same twisted tough came: "it's really right do defeat him? Are the death's of all those people that bad? And... why not join it?"
These toughs are enemies much worse than him...

Talya
2007-05-27, 12:55 PM
The only way this functions as a BBEG, is to make it a BBGG (oxymoron?) in an evil campaign.

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 12:59 PM
The only way this functions as a BBEG, is to make it a BBGG (oxymoron?) in an evil campaign.

I don't know. I would wager there's a way to get to a similar spot with the book of Vile Darkness.

and it's not as though good has a monopoly on nudity.

just switch it around so that your allies only gain a +2 on things you explicitly command them to do, and have the effect on those around you be jealousy rather than fascination.

Talya
2007-05-27, 01:01 PM
I don't know. I would wager there's a way to get to a similar spot with the book of Vile Darkness.

and it's not as though good as a monopoly on nudity.

There's no vile vows...although I'm sure you could homebrew a similar feat to VoN. You'd just never get the equivalent of a vow of poverty. The VoP discussion is what got me thinking about this, since they can't wear armor. I was thinking, "Damn, my heartwarder would never take this vow, no matter how useful it was to her. She likes her pretty clothes so much, she'd rather go NAKED than wear rags. Oh wait...naked...that works..."

Arakune
2007-05-27, 01:02 PM
The only way this functions as a BBEG, is to make it a BBGG (oxymoron?) in an evil campaign.

or swith the "evil" description to "good".

seriously, it's a very mean build...

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 01:20 PM
There's no vile vows...although I'm sure you could homebrew a similar feat to VoN. You'd just never get the equivalent of a vow of poverty. The VoP discussion is what got me thinking about this, since they can't wear armor. I was thinking, "Damn, my heartwarder would never take this vow, no matter how useful it was to her. She likes her pretty clothes so much, she'd rather go NAKED than wear rags. Oh wait...naked...that works..."

that is the rub isn't it. no VoP for evil chars. At the same time though, I wonder if a similar level of Cha godliness could be achieved/facilitated by a character using the sacrafice rules in the BoVD. (wish I still had that book, I would check) Call the vow "tempters obsession" and use it to lure people in for sacrafice in order to keep up the largely temporary buffs/powers one gets from the sacrafice system. A charisma vampire.

Talya
2007-05-27, 01:25 PM
*insert tongue in cheek*



You know, it's predictable, and I'm to blame, but with where this thread has gone, I'm not sure I want to be using phrases like "insert tongue in cheek" here after all.

Poppatomus
2007-05-27, 01:28 PM
You know, it's predictable, and I'm to blame, but with where this thread has gone, I'm not sure I want to be using phrases like "insert tongue in cheek" here after all.

Was waiting for someone to notice that. Had you put it after the feat description my guess is the thread would have imploded.

Renegade Paladin
2007-05-27, 01:57 PM
Are you familiar with the Goddess Sune? (I mean, she's a chaotic good Goddess with an order of paladins, as exalted as one can get...but she exemplifies vanity.)
Yes, I am, but goddess or no I still wouldn't call her exalted material. :smallamused:

Quietus
2007-05-27, 02:20 PM
Would it be wrong of me to point out that you have a spare Exalted feat slot? You get an Exalted feat for free at level 1 with Vow of Poverty... when I run human VoP's, I typically end up with Nymph's Kiss as my first level bonus feat for the extra skill point fun.

Talya
2007-05-27, 02:22 PM
Would it be wrong of me to point out that you have a spare Exalted feat slot? You get an Exalted feat for free at level 1 with Vow of Poverty... when I run human VoP's, I typically end up with Nymph's Kiss as my first level bonus feat for the extra skill point fun.

Ooooh. Nice. And what exalted feat would you stick into that build (i'd move nymph's kiss to level 1.)

Tengu
2007-05-27, 03:10 PM
Vow of Chastity?

Quietus
2007-05-27, 03:47 PM
Vow of Chastity?

That'd be the "Oh man, this is hilarious!" option - but it would require that the intimate relationship with the Fey represented by Nymph's Kiss itself be removed. You'd keep the benefits, but it depends on how you want to set up the story.

Other options are some of the other Vows - Vow of Purity would help if anyone tried to hit you with a death effect, or Vow of Obedience helps versus Compulsion effects (which actually ties in nicely to your Nymph's Kiss - someone tries to Dominate you into doing X, and your devotion to your Fey lover is strong enough to help overcome that).

If you had a 15 int, I'd even suggest Words of Creation, for pure style points.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 03:49 PM
Vow of Chastity?

That one always bothered me. Why are people so convinced that chastity is a good thing?

Yvian
2007-05-27, 03:54 PM
Would it be wrong of me to point out that you have a spare Exalted feat slot? You get an Exalted feat for free at level 1 with Vow of Poverty... when I run human VoP's, I typically end up with Nymph's Kiss as my first level bonus feat for the extra skill point fun.

How do you get a bonous feat at 1st level? Scared Vow is a prereq for VoP.

Ryuuk
2007-05-27, 03:58 PM
That one always bothered me. Why are people so convinced that chastity is a good thing?

It's not that it's good, it just shows conviction. Lust would probably be frowned upon by a few dieties.

martyboy74
2007-05-27, 04:06 PM
Admittedly, Sune is probably not among them.

Quietus
2007-05-27, 04:07 PM
How do you get a bonous feat at 1st level? Scared Vow is a prereq for VoP.

As a Human, you can take Sacred Vow, pick up Vow of Poverty as your bonus feat, and then VoP gives a free bonus exalted feat at first level, which you use to pick up Nymph's Kiss.


It's not that it's good, it just shows conviction. Lust would probably be frowned upon by a few dieties.

Probably smiled on by others, though.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 04:18 PM
It's not that it's good, it just shows conviction. Lust would probably be frowned upon by a few dieties.

Save, of course, that it is a completely arbitrary way of showing conviction, and a significantly-less-than-healthy one.

Quietus
2007-05-27, 04:19 PM
Save, of course, that it is a completely arbitrary way of showing conviction, and a significantly-less-than-healthy one.

Not necessarily true. There are some deities (mostly in the BoEF, admittedly, because most WotC books don't go quite into that level of mature subject matter) which espouse chastity, while others are a little more hedonistic in their teachings.

::Edit:: I'll agree that chastity is less-than-healthy, though. :smallamused:

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 04:21 PM
"Good deities espousing chastity" is part and parcel of what bothers me--of course, I do not actually know of any. I am sure that gods such as Helm, Tyr, and the like frown on liscentiousness and excess, but I do not think they actively promote chastity.

Talya
2007-05-27, 04:24 PM
"Good deities espousing chastity" is part and parcel of what bothers me--of course, I do not actually know of any. I am sure that gods such as Helm, Tyr, and the like frown on liscentiousness and excess, but I do not think they actively promote chastity.

Greenwood made the Forgotten Realms. There ain't gonna be no divine virtue in chastity.

SurlySeraph
2007-05-27, 04:24 PM
^ Self-denial is a good thing, and chastity is a form of self-denial. Of course, self-denial can be taken too far pretty easily. The flagellants in the 1200s, anyone?

bosssmiley
2007-05-27, 04:26 PM
...If you ever make me think about Winston Churchill naked again, I'll...

Look, just don't. :smile:

Per the sacred texts of OOTS Winston would be pixelated. Our minds (and eyes) would be safe. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to bake some anthropomorphic blackbird pie. :smallfurious:

Weird build. I detect a slight aroma of cheese, but cannot quite isolate the source. :smallwink:

Corolinth
2007-05-27, 04:26 PM
Heartwarder is a Sunite prestige class. Chastity is in indirect opposition to the "passion" aspect of Sune's divine portfolio.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 04:30 PM
Greenwood made the Forgotten Realms. There ain't gonna be no divine virtue in chastity.
Save for the Vow of Chastity, apparently. But, yes, a very good point. Oh, Ed, with your wacky, wacky "pregnancy magically makes my pet character gain wait all over so she is still pretty and sexy rather than making her large" type things.


^ Self-denial is a good thing, and chastity is a form of self-denial. Of course, self-denial can be taken too far pretty easily. The flagellants in the 1200s, anyone?
About that? Not so much, no. Knowing when to stop is good, but saying that lack of any kind of basic physical indulgence is good, and therefore that indulgence is bad, creates a culture in which everyone does it anyway but feels horribly guilty afterwards and refuses to acknowledge it.

Diamondeye
2007-05-27, 06:19 PM
Helm, Tyr, Torm, etc. wouldn't be particularly interested in a vow of chastity except insofar as a follower swearing off mortal relationships or romance to devote themselves to the diety's cause. That wouldn't necessarily mean complete chastity, however, but I would imagine they might look askance at someone who vowed not to marry or take a lover but had constant one-night-stand type engagements. (More out of the person's cynicysm in using the letter of the oath to get around the spirit than over the actual sex acts. We can be fairly sure that Tyr at least doesn't disapprove of extramarital sex; Fenthick and Aribeth were lovers in NWN and I know of no contradictory information in any other source.)

Their portfolios just aren't that connected to sexuality.

Ilmater is the only diety of the forgotten realms that might really promote chastity amongst his clergy that occurs to me off the top of my head. I would say it's definitely a form of suffering.

A vow of chastity is basically "good" in that, if followed, it espouses self control. Not everyone has the same level of sex drive. Some people simply do not have a stong interest in sex, and might consider it a relatively small sacrifice, and therefore a good way to demonstrate their willingness to sacrifice.

High-Chancellor
2007-05-27, 06:20 PM
What's wrong with being chaste?

There is a difference between chastity and celibacy,

The problem isn't with either of them, the problem is with people who don't know what to do with themselves when they fall short of their expectetions, and with people who get overly vindictive with others who don't live up to their expectations. But that's a problem you get with whatever moral precept in action. That and lust is one of the harder emotions for people to control.

I would find this build with Vow of Chastity hillarious, though you would have a really odd story dynamic.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 06:22 PM
What's wrong with being chaste?

Nothing, if that is (to be ironic) what you are into.

The problem is one of two things: either being chaste despite a lack of desire to do so and the resultant feelings of misery and guilt, or promoting being chaste as good, rather than simply as an ethics-unrelated decision based on personal desires and comfort levels, which leads to the former in others.

Dhavaer
2007-05-27, 06:28 PM
A vow of chastity is basically "good" in that, if followed, it espouses self control.

I think you may be confusing 'good' with 'lawful'.

Diamondeye
2007-05-27, 06:35 PM
Not at all.

Self-denial is not inherently lawful; a lawful evil person does not deny themself for the good of society. Rather they use laws and rules for selfish reasons and personal advancement.

By the same token, a chaotic good person promotes freedom for everyone, not just their own freedom.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-05-27, 06:39 PM
That'd be the "Oh man, this is hilarious!" option - but it would require that the intimate relationship with the Fey represented by Nymph's Kiss itself be removed. You'd keep the benefits, but it depends on how you want to set up the story.

Not true. Rather than say things myself, I'll just reference dictionary.com

"Intimate: 1. associated in close personal relations: an intimate friend.
2. characterized by or involving warm friendship or a personally close or familiar association or feeling: an intimate greeting."

It CAN be "6. engaged in or characterized by sexual relations." But it isn't necessarily. Less fun to write it up as having a close friendship with a nymph, but still. :smallamused:

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 06:42 PM
Indeed. Maybe you and the nymph tell each other your secrets, do each others' hair, and talk about boys.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-05-27, 07:24 PM
Nice build. You might consider making it a half fey or half nymph (+2LA) if using the LA buydown rules.

Tokiko Mima
2007-05-27, 07:33 PM
Why just Nymph? Succubi have better racial Charisma bonuses... then you could actually beat Sune in Charisma scores. :smallamused:

Dunno how the Chastity thing would work out, though.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-05-27, 10:17 PM
Why just Nymph? Succubi have better racial Charisma bonuses... then you could actually beat Sune in Charisma scores. :smallamused:

Cause if you insert Succubi into this creation, many a 14-16 year old will die of blood loss..


...you know what? Insert a succubi. (evil grin)

ocato
2007-05-27, 10:20 PM
or forget the LA and go Mage blooded template (+2 CHA -2 WIS). You might also consider a Star Elf (+2 CHA -2 CON and ghost touch on used weapons/armor) for a nonLA Cha hike.

Indon
2007-05-27, 10:32 PM
"Good deities espousing chastity" is part and parcel of what bothers me--of course, I do not actually know of any. I am sure that gods such as Helm, Tyr, and the like frown on liscentiousness and excess, but I do not think they actively promote chastity.

It strikes me as more a thing mortals do to demonstrate dedication. Focusing on the divine at the expense of the flesh, and such; spending time praying rather than courting, etc.

As such, it's not neccessarily deity-specific, and it would be practiced by only the most fervent of followers... which, I do believe exalted characters happen to be, eh?

Edit: also...



...you know what? Insert a succubi. (evil grin)

In Soviet Double Entendre, succubi insert you!

Mewtarthio
2007-05-27, 11:06 PM
Not true. Rather than say things myself, I'll just reference dictionary.com

"Intimate: 1. associated in close personal relations: an intimate friend.
2. characterized by or involving warm friendship or a personally close or familiar association or feeling: an intimate greeting."

It CAN be "6. engaged in or characterized by sexual relations." But it isn't necessarily. Less fun to write it up as having a close friendship with a nymph, but still. :smallamused:

Alternatively, the experience with the fey was so utterly blissful that the character vowed never to have sex with any other creature. Then the fey suffered a fatal heart attack. That would work.


Cause if you insert Succubi into this creation, many a 14-16 year old will die of blood loss..


...you know what? Insert a succubi. (evil grin)

Somebody seriously needs to whip up a "Sune's Succubi" biker gang logo.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-05-27, 11:13 PM
Somebody seriously needs to whip up a "Sune's Succubi" biker gang logo.

I think Hugh Heifner just ran out of viagra and the physical boundaries of pornography broke.

Happy now? Your broke porn. :P

Dhavaer
2007-05-27, 11:21 PM
It strikes me as more a thing mortals do to demonstrate dedication. Focusing on the divine at the expense of the flesh, and such; spending time praying rather than courting, etc.

That doesn't explain why you have to be good to get it, though. I bet Hextor would be just as happy to grant more power for more dedicated worship.

Dervag
2007-05-28, 12:11 AM
That one always bothered me. Why are people so convinced that chastity is a good thing?Because there are many spiritual traditions in which a vow of chastity leads someone to channel more energy into spiritual development. It isn't just a descendant of Western-style prudishness.

For an example of this, you can look at Hindu myth and legend. The Indians were by no means prudish (at least, until the Victorians got their hands on them). Hinduism is not a prudish religion. But there is still a tradition of chaste ascetics in Hinduism.

Of course, it's not clear to me that only good characters should receive beneficial mechanical effects from this kind of thing if the game does tie into the chaste ascetic tradition. However, since asceticism comes from an eschewing of self-gratification, it is not compatible with the typical evil-aligned character. It's definitely compatible with Lawful Neutral in my book, though.

AtomicKitKat
2007-05-28, 01:12 AM
Hmm, Undead with Vow of Nudity. :smalleek:

Dhavaer
2007-05-28, 01:16 AM
Hmm, Undead with Vow of Nudity. :smalleek:

Aren't they generally naked anyway?

Tengu
2007-05-28, 02:51 AM
I'm making my Winston Churchill a zombie now.

Green Bean
2007-05-28, 02:58 AM
Hmm, Undead with Vow of Nudity. :smalleek:

I'd change the Facination effect to Blindness. :smalleek:

Ninja Chocobo
2007-05-28, 03:39 AM
An interesting build to say the least, but, I pray to God that the 14-16 year olds at the gaming shop don't find this thread and try to convince either DM's to let them use it, because I really don't want them playing retarded, slutty, naked female elves just because they're... you know, 14-16 :p. I Seriously they would play a male character to this, and I don't have a problem with male characters that play females ones... well, but Jesus, they just can't ;). heheh.
I resent this.

Cause if you insert Succubi into this creation, many a 14-16 year old will die of blood loss..
And that.
*generic rant about being 16 and sick of stereotypes*

ocato
2007-05-28, 09:17 AM
Go to school! Keep off my lawn! When I was your age, bread was a nickel! Get a job!

Mephibosheth
2007-05-28, 09:31 AM
I like the build and the feat. Very comical and also rather effective. Nice work!

Just as a suggestion, if you wanted to open Vow of to characters that don't worship Sune, you could make it something of an extension of Vow of Poverty. Asceticism so intense that the character even eschews clothes in order to achieve spiritual perfection. I would liken it to the digambara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism#Digambar_and_Shvetambar_traditions) traditions of Jainism, wherein the ascetic remains unclad in order to eliminate his/her dependence on material possessions. You'd probably have to alter the functioning of the feat, since I've seen some pretty ugly ascetics in my day.

Just a thought. I like it the way it is too.

Mephibosheth

Wehrkind
2007-05-28, 09:59 AM
Hmm, Undead with Vow of Nudity. :smalleek:
Crotch rot, anyone? *rimshot*

In terms of Vow of Chastity, I don't know how it is written specifically, but it should be taken to mean "no innappropriate sexual relationships" which usually was taken to mean "outside of marrige." (This is as opposed to celibacy where there is no sex, and celebrity where apparently anything goes.) So your character could be married to the fey kissing him...

Indon
2007-05-28, 11:58 AM
That doesn't explain why you have to be good to get it, though. I bet Hextor would be just as happy to grant more power for more dedicated worship.

To me, evil deities seem the more 'power through blood sacrifice' type, generally. And that's something a good deity's worshipper is never going to get the benefit of.

Siberys
2007-05-28, 01:11 PM
Now it just needs a way to turn invisible.

:elan: : WOOOOOOOOO!

Talya
2007-05-28, 01:37 PM
Now it just needs a way to turn invisible.

:elan: : WOOOOOOOOO!
It's a bard/sublime chord. Invisibility is just a spell away.

martyboy74
2007-05-28, 01:50 PM
:durkon::...It's a touch spell.

Talya
2007-05-28, 01:59 PM
It occurs to me that invisibility violates the spirit of the Vow of Nudity, actually, though not the letter. As a DM, if a player did this just to avoid stares, they'd lose the vows. I'd grant leeway if they used it to actually sneak through a dangerous situation or spy on people.

ocato
2007-05-28, 03:27 PM
Gawd, using a touch spell on yourself when naked.

Oh, I don't want anybody else, when I think about you I ...


*ocato is tackled by a mob of moral people, moderators, and anyone who doesn't want to hear him sing, then dragged off to be beaten with a wet noodle*

That's the end!

Talya
2007-05-28, 03:34 PM
Gawd, using a touch spell on yourself when naked.

Oh, I don't want anybody else, when I think about you I ...


*ocato is tackled by a mob of moral people, moderators, and anyone who doesn't want to hear him sing, then dragged off to be beaten with a wet noodle*

That's the end!

Nope. afraid all those moral people are fascinated by your awe-inspiring aura.

Amiria
2007-05-28, 04:04 PM
Invisibility ? Probably all Illusion and Transmutation spells that change the person with the vow. So Disguise Self, Alter Self and all similar spells, powers, and abilities.

Dhavaer
2007-05-28, 08:03 PM
To me, evil deities seem the more 'power through blood sacrifice' type, generally. And that's something a good deity's worshipper is never going to get the benefit of.

Hextor probably has his share of sacrifices, sure, but he's exactly the sort of evil deity to have ascetic clerics. Well, him and maybe Nerull.

Indon
2007-05-28, 08:13 PM
Hextor probably has his share of sacrifices, sure, but he's exactly the sort of evil deity to have ascetic clerics. Well, him and maybe Nerull.

Hmm. Then perhaps it's a balance issue. Is there anything in the BoVD to correspond to the vows that good characters can't do, such as sacrifices and such? (I haven't read much of either book, but I seem to recall something about grafting)

ocato
2007-05-28, 08:17 PM
*dusting self off* If I had a nickel for every mob of moral elitists and members of the religious right I had to expose myself to in order to escape a savage example of mob violence, I'd be pretty rich. This build, idea, and so on, gets my official seal of approval. Not that that is worth anything, I just think it's a pretty funny idea.

Dhavaer
2007-05-28, 10:25 PM
Hmm. Then perhaps it's a balance issue. Is there anything in the BoVD to correspond to the vows that good characters can't do, such as sacrifices and such? (I haven't read much of either book, but I seem to recall something about grafting)

There are sacrifices and so on, but no, there's no such thing as a Vile Vow.

Miles Invictus
2007-05-28, 10:57 PM
Odd. Vows are more of a "Law" thing than a "Good" thing.

Dervag
2007-05-28, 11:56 PM
Odd. Vows are more of a "Law" thing than a "Good" thing.Well, with a vow you are giving up what amounts to a piece of yourself for the sake of doing whatever you are vowing to do. Thus, it is a form of sacrifice, but it is a self sacrifice. This is more in line with good alignment than with evil alignment. Evil sacrifices others rather than sacrificing the self.

However, it is quite plausible for there to be some specific evil organizations that have some kind of ascetic code, and very reasonable to houserule such a thing.

SurlySeraph
2007-05-29, 12:08 AM
^ The Order of the Long Death in Forgotten Realms is a good example of evil ascetics.

Jack Mann
2007-05-29, 12:23 AM
...If you ever make me think about Winston Churchill naked again, I'll...

Look, just don't. :smile:

Churchill was not a modest man. He often went about his home naked, even when others were present. Roosevelt caught him thus once, and Churchill is reported to have said, "The prime minister of Britain has nothing to conceal from the president of the United States."

Quietus
2007-05-29, 01:25 AM
There are sacrifices and so on, but no, there's no such thing as a Vile Vow.

No, but wasn't the BoVD where the disfiguration feats came in? Plus the comparisons to sacrifce made between your post and mine.

Dhavaer
2007-05-29, 01:44 AM
No, but wasn't the BoVD where the disfiguration feats came in? Plus the comparisons to sacrifce made between your post and mine.

A comparison could be made between the disfiguration feats and the vows. They are mechnically similar, I suppose, but not so much in flavour.

And I disagree that self-sacrifice is necessarily good. A character of any alignment might have a cause they were willing to sacrifice themselves for, although chaotic characters like this would probably be few and far between.

Miles Invictus
2007-05-29, 01:47 AM
Well, with a vow you are giving up what amounts to a piece of yourself for the sake of doing whatever you are vowing to do. Thus, it is a form of sacrifice, but it is a self sacrifice. This is more in line with good alignment than with evil alignment. Evil sacrifices others rather than sacrificing the self.

That, I think, depends on the particular style of evil. If I wholeheartedly believe that Lawful Evil is the way to go -- I play well with others, but I don't shy away from doing what needs to be done -- I'd certainly be sympathetic to the idea of a Vow of Obedience. Being Lawful, I could also appreciate the self-restraint inherent in a Vow of Abstinence.

If I was particularly devoted to my evil patron deity, it's plausible that I would sacrifice gold and magic items in his or her name, and gain certain powers in return -- akin to the Vow of Poverty. If I was convinced that my patron goddess was really, really hot, I might even swear to be her eternal consort. Given the odds of actually meeting my evil patron goddess in person, that's basically a Vow of Chastity.

That makes four separate vows given Evil flavor. While I agree that self-sacrifice is more likely to be good than evil, I don't think it's an exclusively good thing -- not in the real world (e.g., suicide attacks on innocents: self sacrifice without being good), and certainly not in D&D, where Evil is so much more than the mere absence of Good. That's why I don't think Vows are, in the general sense, Good or Evil. However, all Vows require adhering to a rigid set of behaviors, guidelines, or principles...which is the domain of Law. Hence, Vows are predominantly Lawful, but can be individually tailored to give a Good or Evil flavor.

Arbitrarity
2007-05-29, 10:27 AM
Venerable mageborn star elf with a flaw, for 43 charisma!

Now, where do we get another couple points....?

Can anyone get me another 5 or so points?

Talya
2007-05-29, 11:46 AM
Venerable mageborn star elf with a flaw, for 43 charisma!

Now, where do we get another couple points....?

Can anyone get me another 5 or so points?

I can get you 4, with a half-fey template at +2 LA.

That does make her immune to her own bardsong bonuses, i believe. :(

Frosty
2008-01-02, 03:08 PM
Taylor, how would an evil version of this feat look like? There might be some fun BBEGs that could make use of a continuous Fascinate ability. Besides changing the fluff, would anything else need to be done?

Also, you do not need to be human. Just take a Flaw or two.

Talya
2008-01-02, 04:48 PM
Taylor, how would an evil version of this feat look like? There might be some fun BBEGs that could make use of a continuous Fascinate ability. Besides changing the fluff, would anything else need to be done?

Also, you do not need to be human. Just take a Flaw or two.

Woah, necropost.

It's Talya, btw.

Without the vow of poverty, this feat doesn't work so well, and I have a hard time imagining an evil version of the vow of poverty.

Fenix_of_Doom
2008-01-02, 04:53 PM
Woah, necropost.

It's Talya, btw.

Without the vow of poverty, this feat doesn't work so well, and I have a hard time imagining an evil version of the vow of poverty.

Homebrew it; Vow of Greed
prerequisites: must be evil
Effect: Must absorb all it's loot so that nobody else can ever get to it!
exept: stuff you can keep with vow of poverty
bonus: sort of like vow of poverty, but change the exalted feats for something more evil.

Edit: alternative:
tithe to the dark gods
offer all you wealth in return for unholy power

maybe create a "dark pact" feat to create symmetry with VoP

EvilElitest
2008-01-02, 05:16 PM
Cause if you insert Succubi into this creation, many a 14-16 year old will die of blood loss..


...you know what? Insert a succubi. (evil grin)

as a 16 year old my self, i wish that wasn't true:smallfrown:


On the topic of creation, this really wants me to create more rules about dying of exposer, because walking around nude all days would really have some problem (hence why we stopped doing it:smallwink: )
from
EE

Thinker
2008-01-02, 05:21 PM
{scrubbed}

Talya
2008-01-02, 05:25 PM
On the topic of creation, this really wants me to create more rules about dying of exposer, because walking around nude all days would really have some problem

See bolded section, below.


In addition, they have the following:
Armor Class: 36 (Flatfooted: 32, touch: 19)
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +16, Will: +26
BAB: +14, Ranged Touch: +24
Freedom of Movement, Energy Resistance (all) 15, Regeneration, Sustenance/Greater Sustenance, Permanent Trueseeing, Endure Elements, most manufactured weapons used against her shatter on contact (Vow of Peace), calming aura, damage reduction 10/evil, greater spell focus (enchantment) + spell penetration on spells with verbal components, creature type: Fey (fey transformation is a 10th level heartwarder bonus)

Frosty
2008-01-02, 05:26 PM
To be honest, a simple Endure Elements spell would render exposure rules pointless. And yes, I dunno why I wrote Taylor. I meant to write Tayla, which still would've been wrong :smallredface:

EvilElitest
2008-01-02, 05:40 PM
And yet you know it is.

Yes, yes it is all to true



Yeah, I hate it when people are creative in a way I'm to prudish and immature to understand or appreciate.
How...mature of you, nothing says your more mature than rude dismissal, i hope you and this strange double standard are happy together.
I never said the class was bad, simple that walking around in the nude would cause some problem


Didn't see endure elements, but people's reactions would be something to consider, but that is up for role playing to to dictate

By the by, what doctrine makes these guys and gals wish to walk around in the nude (regeneration and all that helps for protection but walking through the city streets could have problems), the fluff is a little vague, are they just extremely passionate worshipers of Sune who wish to reflect natural beauty or what?
from
EE

nonsens
2008-01-02, 05:41 PM
Homebrew it; Vow of Greed
prerequisites: must be evil
Effect: Must absorb all it's loot so that nobody else can ever get to it!
exept: stuff you can keep with vow of poverty
bonus: sort of like vow of poverty, but change the exalted feats for something more evil.

Edit: alternative:
tithe to the dark gods
offer all you wealth in return for unholy power

maybe create a "dark pact" feat to create symmetry with VoP


But then you'd get so many items you're not naked anymore.
I think you could make it more "Vow of Destruction".
Instead of you giving stuff away, you destroy is so nobody gets it (+ bonus points for destroying holy items).
This keeps the style of not having any items.




If you had a 15 int, I'd even suggest Words of Creation, for pure style points.
Have another high-level mage cast wish on you, and have him wish you Int up.

The_Snark
2008-01-02, 05:48 PM
Evil Vow of Poverty? It could work. I've actually done it, with an agreeable DM. The character held that items, and especially magic items, were a tool for the weak to try and outmatch the strong, and refused to use them.

I believe we ended up calling it Vow of Arrogance or Vow of Contempt. The only changes really necessary were to replace exalted feats with vile feats (if desired; not many of them fit), and change references to good and sacred with evil and profane.

Also, there's a sort of evil counterpart to the exalted Vow feats in Drow of the Underdark, with Unspeakable Vow as the prerequisite. None of them are terribly good, though.

Thinker
2008-01-02, 05:50 PM
Yes, yes it is all to true


How...mature of you, nothing says your more mature than rude dismissal, i hope you and this strange double standard are happy together.
Luckily I'm happy with my double standards, hypocrisy, and level of maturity. I don't have to try to pander for others' approval or wish I were something I'm not.

Talya
2008-01-02, 05:54 PM
but people's reactions would be something to consider, but that is up for role playing to to dictate

Generally up to the DM. Although for the most part their reactions would be to stare and drool (Fascinate effect.)



By the by, what doctrine makes these guys and gals wish to walk around in the nude? the fluff is a little vague, are they just extremely passionate worshipers of Sune who wish to reflect natural beauty or what?
from
EE

It was rather created humorously, but yes. Sune is the Goddess of beauty and passion, and such things are always holy and sacred to them.


but walking through the city streets could have problems

Yes! Opportunities for great amusement abound... (see below)


Special: To fullfill your vow, you must never willingly wear any item of clothing or armor that conceals your body. If you intentionally break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. If you break your vow as a result of magical compulsion, or otherwise unintentionally (being forced into a straightjacket, for instance, a possible outcome of wandering city streets in the nude), you lose the benefit of this feat until you receive an atonement spell. Merely having a blanket thrown over you which you immediately attempt to remove will not cause this result.

Roland St. Jude
2008-01-02, 06:11 PM
Woah, necropost...

Sheriff of Moddingham: Indeed. To all, please don't revive threads that are this old. Please see the Forum Rules re: Thread Necromancy.

Since Talya is still here and answering a question put to her, I was going to leave it open. But now it's all flamey. So I'm closing this thread.