Hunter's Mark

[Canuberon]

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

We just have our first game of 5th edition going and I'm playing a ranger/fighter.

My question: Hunter's Mark states you MAY choose a new target if your original target drops unconcious. What if it's my last opponent in that fight and another fight breaks loose after 5 rounds? Can I keep my concentration on the spell without a target? Or must I have a target for the spell or it fizzles?

Thanks in advance!

[Kryx]

It lasts for the duration even without another immediate target. It can then be applied again on a new target.

[djreynolds]

I think the spell starts off like an hour, its concentration though. So you have to maintain concentration in lieu of another spell

[some guy]

The other posters already have answered you.
To clarify a bit further, the spell uses "a subsequent turn of yours", so yeah, you can have the spell up without a target (if it was "on your next turn", it would be a different story).

[Canuberon]

I think the spell starts off like an hour, its concentration though. So you have to maintain concentration in lieu of another spell

You're absolutely right.
The situation was: Barb hits the last guy and he drops down. We hear a strange sound in the distance. We go to investigate: another monster.

In this case it would make sense for my character to keep his concentration up, so he can keep his extra damage in the next combat.

Thanks for the quick reply all!

[Gothos]

Remember that you cant maintain concentration on spells during rests.

[Markoff Chainey]

Both spells, Hex and Hunter's Mark say explicitly: "If the target drops to 0 hit points before the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature".

So, if the target runs out of range, it did not drop to 0 hitpoints and the condition when it is allowed to switch targets is not met. - And you would have to use a bonus action to switch targets...

There was a tweet from Mearls about Hex where he answered a question if it is possible to mark ones familiar in order to keep Hex up for the full duration even when the fight is over... he answered that it is possible, but someone would have to drop the familiar to 0 hp and then he can switch targets with a bonus action.

I cannot find the exact tweet, but here is a related one that seems to be good enough for me: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/16/spell-after-an-encounter/ where it states that you have to find another target. I think it is pretty obvious that the other conditions (bonus actions to switch AND drop target to 0 hp) must be met too.

[Markoff Chainey]

I just gave it more thought... Sorry, that is weird.

"Subsequent" does not specify how many turns after the trigger happened, but definitely SOME at least, so I agree, that by RAW you do NOT need an immediate target. The tweet from Mearls I posted above is obviously not according to RAW.

Still, when the Barbarian does not drop to 0 hp, I would not allow to switch targets, because one of the conditions were not met and I think that is according to RAW.

I would also argue that the spell does not "break" because the target is out of range, as long as the caster keeps up his concentration. The spell just does not have an effect anymore, until the target reenters range.

[Kryx]

Still, when the Barbarian does not drop to 0 hp, I would not allow to switch targets, because one of the conditions were not met and I think that is according to RAW.

I would also argue that the spell does not "break" because the target is out of range, as long as the caster keeps up his concentration. The spell just does not have an effect anymore, until the target reenters range.
This is how it should be played, agreed.

[steppedonad4]

Remember that you cant maintain concentration on spells during rests.

On a long rest during the six hours of mandatory sleep you couldn't, but during the 2 hours where you don't have to sleep and short rests, I'm fairly certain you can continue concentrating.

Which brings up an interesting point. Trance would then allow you to continue concentrating since it doesn't incapacitate you. That actually really works nicely with the whole nature of elves being magical and whatnot and would also make elves the only race that could maintain Hex/Hunter's Mark for the full 24 hour duration without incurring an Exhaustion level.


I would also argue that the spell does not "break" because the target is out of range, as long as the caster keeps up his concentration. The spell just does not have an effect anymore, until the target reenters range.

Given that Hunter's Mark gives advantage to Wisdom (Survival) and Wisdom (Perception) checks to find the target, I would think that range wouldn't be an issue and the intent is that the ranger has an increased ability to track the target for the duration of the spell.

[Markoff Chainey]

On a long rest during the six hours of mandatory sleep you couldn't, but during the 2 hours where you don't have to sleep and short rests, I'm fairly certain you can continue concentrating.

Which brings up an interesting point. Trance would then allow you to continue concentrating since it doesn't incapacitate you. That actually really works nicely with the whole nature of elves being magical and whatnot and would also make elves the only race that could maintain Hex/Hunter's Mark for the full 24 hour duration without incurring an Exhaustion level.

Given that Hunter's Mark gives advantage to Wisdom (Survival) and Wisdom (Perception) checks to find the target, I would think that range wouldn't be an issue and the intent is that the ranger has an increased ability to track the target for the duration of the spell.

Trance... in my book requires you to concentrate on trance. It is focused "doing nothing". Mechanical wise, allowing a race to cheat by 1 spell slot is all but "interesting".

Range! I was sure it is different, but I just checked PHB p. 203 "Once a spell is cast, its effects aren't limited by its range, unless the spell's description says otherwise." - So the spell effect does stay in place, even if the target escapes out of range!

To go back to the previous example... When the fleeing Barbarian gets out of range, the effect of Hunter's Mark stays on him as long as the caster concentrates. - And the caster could drop the spell, but he cannot just switch the target as a bonus action, because the target did not drop to 0 HP.

[Tanarii]

You misread the example. The part Barbarian killed the target of Hunter's Mark by dropping the last enemy to 0 hit points, then the party immediately moved on to another encounter.

Elves can definitely maintain concentration due to the Trance ability. They remain semi-conscious, and you need to be incapacitated (which comes from the unconscious condition) to break concentration.

Interestingly I couldn't find anything other than the Sleep spell which says sleep = unconscious, although I may have overlooked it. And one could argue the spell merely describes how a magical affect works, and the unconscious condition isn't specified to apply to someone asleep. I know that's Nit-picky rules-lawyering bs ... Obviously sleep causes unconsciousness. ;)

[tieren]

To go back to the previous example... When the fleeing Barbarian gets out of range, the effect of Hunter's Mark stays on him as long as the caster concentrates. - And the caster could drop the spell, but he cannot just switch the target as a bonus action, because the target did not drop to 0 HP.

I don't think you are reading the example properly.

I believe the barbarian is one of his party members who finished off the last monster in that combat. Then instead of dropping concentration the ranger kept hunters mark going while the group went to investigate a new threat, even though he didn't have a marked quarry to concentrate on (which is perfectly fine).

and as has been noted the range on Hunters mark (90 feet) only applies to the marking of the target. If that marked target then runs away to a range of 590 feet out in the open I am still going to get the extra damage when I nail him with my longbow/sharpshooter feat. With him dead I would need to get within 90 feet of the next target to mark it.

If the marked target runs miles away I still get the bonuses to track it.

[Markoff Chainey]

I don't think you are reading the example properly.

I believe the barbarian is one of his party members who finished off the last monster in that combat. Then instead of dropping concentration the ranger kept hunters mark going while the group went to investigate a new threat, even though he didn't have a marked quarry to concentrate on (which is perfectly fine).

and as has been noted the range on Hunters mark (90 feet) only applies to the marking of the target. If that marked target then runs away to a range of 590 feet out in the open I am still going to get the extra damage when I nail him with my longbow/sharpshooter feat. With him dead I would need to get within 90 feet of the next target to mark it.

If the marked target runs miles away I still get the bonuses to track it.

yes, my bad. I totally agree!

[Submortimer]

the effect of Hunter's Mark stays on him as long as the caster concentrates. - And the caster could drop the spell, but he cannot just switch the target as a bonus action, because the target did not drop to 0 HP.

Which is totally part of the point. Hunters mark helps you track down marked creatures, which would be pointless if they could end the effect by running away from you.

Also, this is easily worked into having a bag of rats you can "sacrifice" to hex: mark rat at start of day, kill rat, have float g hex.

[MarkTriumphant]

Also, this is easily worked into having a bag of rats you can "sacrifice" to hex: mark rat at start of day, kill rat, have float g hex.

Although this would work, I can't see the point unless you have some way of recovering spell slots, like a Warlock's short rest recovery. Otherwise, you might just as well cast Hunter's Mark on the first opponent that you want to use it on.

[PoeticDwarf]

You can use it on a new target if the duration isn't over and if you held concentration.

[Tanarii]

Although this would work, I can't see the point unless you have some way of recovering spell slots, like a Warlock's short rest recovery. Otherwise, you might just as well cast Hunter's Mark on the first opponent that you want to use it on.
He must have been thinking of a warlocks short rest recovery, and automatically scaling spell level on the slots to get a long extended duration Hex. Basically, a way to give warlocks +1 slot for every short rest, used for Hex.

[MaxWilson]

Although this would work, I can't see the point unless you have some way of recovering spell slots, like a Warlock's short rest recovery. Otherwise, you might just as well cast Hunter's Mark on the first opponent that you want to use it on.

Almost, but not quite. The Bag of Rats will let you Hex someone without them seeing you cast a spell, and without somatic components.

[Zalabim]

It also is not casting a spell, so you could shift a Hex and cast Scorching Ray in the same round, but you can't cast Hex and Scorching Ray in the same round.

[Malifice]

Remember that you cant maintain concentration on spells during rests.

Yes you can concentrate on short rests.