Kuja vs. Sephiroth

[Nikkolas]

1. Which is the better villain in your opinion? (say why)

2. Which would win in a fight?

[Setra]

1.Kuja started a War and left three Nations in ruins.

Sephiroth cried for his mommy and killed Aeris.

2. Kuja destroyed a Planet

Sephiroth summoned something that could eventually weaken the planet enough that he could absorb its power.

3. Technically this should be under A vs. B.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Beware! You know not how close to peril you tread!


It will be the Link Wars all over again!

[ElfLad]

Kefka wins.

[1337_master]

Heed the Words of SOTS...Tread lightly, and if you go astray, let the Force be your guide...I think Sephiroth is overall Better, but Kuja still is pretty good.

[Tengu]

Kuja is the lamest main FF villain since "hello, deus ex machina!" Zeromus. Sephiroth, despite having mommy issues, at least has some style and sometimes is cool. Kuja's villainy completely lacks any badassness or the cheerful cruelty of Kefka (somehow I think that Kuja is a Kefka ripoff), and his reason for snapping is the biggest tantrum thrown ever - not even Seifer can compare. He's also the most gender-confused villain ever.

I also think that Sephiroth would take Kuja down, mostly because the battle with Kuja was so easy it was not even funny.

[Ranis]

Oh god....not this....again.....

[Om]

Take it to either the "A vs B" thread or the "Stupid FF characters" thread. What do you mean we don't have the latter?

[Tengu]

What do you mean we don't have the latter?
Because Squall, Seifer and Kuja (and maybe Tidus) are not worth dedicating a topic to them only.

[BanjoTheClown]

Kuja Obviously. Sephiroth would go cry to his Mommy Jenova.

[Setra]

Because Tidus, Yuffie, Cait Sith and Sephiroth (and maybe Umaro) are not worth dedicating a topic to them only.
Fixed it for yah.

[Tengu]

Blasphemy. I never played FF10 so I suspect Tidus might or might not be annoying, but Cait Sith is cool, Yuffie is awesome and Sephiroth is an ok villain.

[Om]

Because Squall, Seifer and Kuja (and maybe Tidus) are not worth dedicating a topic to them only.How about we put all the FF characters in one big thread?

(And then sink it to the bottom of the ocean)

[Tengu]

How about we put all the FF characters in one big thread?

(And then sink it to the bottom of the ocean)

Have you actually played any Final Fantasy games?


I don't get it why people who prefer classical RPGs are so closed-minded on average. I prefer jRPGs, but I do not deny that Baldur's Gate II or Fallout are great games.

[storybookknight]

I personally find Kuja too impossible to take seriously. Sephiroth had long hair, but other than that he wasn't particularly girly at all, whereas Kuja...

[Ranis]

Have you actually played any Final Fantasy games?


I don't get it why people who prefer classical RPGs are so closed-minded on average. I prefer jRPGs, but I do not deny that Baldur's Gate II or Fallout are great games.

I think he's talking about general displeasure for these kind of threads in general, to which end I wholeheartedly agree.

[EvilElitest]

I'm got getting involved
from,
EE

[Om]

I don't get it why people who prefer classical RPGs are so closed-minded on average. I prefer jRPGs, but I do not deny that Baldur's Gate II or Fallout are great games.How is that at all relevant? I call strawman.

An more adpt comparison would be the general lack of "Wasn't the Nameless One cool?" or "Who was better - Sarevok or the Nameless One?" threads. You'd think this Sephiroth was some revolutionary game developer he has so many threads devoted to him.

I have no problem with people talking about FF, which they obviously feel passionately about, but would prefer to see it all confined to a single thread. As it is you could make a good case for renaming this the FF forum.

[Ranis]

You'd think this Sephiroth was some revolutionary game developer he has so many threads devoted to him.

I think the problem is that 90% of gamers' first interaction with a Final Fantasy game was FFVII, so the following is still insanely strong because of it. I liked FFVII as much as the next guy, but nothing, NOTHING, can compare to the raw awesomeness that was the original FFIII.

[Tengu]

Well, for me the tone of Om's initial post does not look like "I don't like spawning multiple vs threads". It's more in the lines of "I'm entering a thread dedicated to a game only to say that this game, in my opinion, sucks horribly".

Also, everyone says that FF7 is one of the most overrated games ever, with lots of hopeless fanbois, the favorite of people who never played any other FF, blah blah. In my opinion, the game deserves all the praise it gets, and it's not the best FF game not because it's overrated, but because FF6 is even more awesome.

Rant over. Dude, that was offtopic.

[Laurellien]

Argh No!!!! Not another Sephiroth vs. x thread. Ye cannae argue the case in any battle which involves NPC's, it gets too philosophical and convoluted.

[ZeroNumerous]

Kefka wins.

QTF. 'Nuff said.

[Nikkolas]

SEPHIROTH

Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.

Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?

Short time later...

Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.


From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.

Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.

But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...

Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.

Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.

Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.

Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?

Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!

So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.

But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.

Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.

Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.


KUJA

Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.

Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...

And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.

That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.

Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!

His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.

Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!

Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!

Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.

Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!

He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?

So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...

Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?

Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!

Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World

Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!

To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.

He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.

Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.

Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.

Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.

conclusion

Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.

[Nerd-o-rama]

These threads are banned, Kuja wins for being better-developed, Sephi wins for being better-costumed, the end.

[Om]

Well, for me the tone of Om's initial post does not look like "I don't like spawning multiple vs threads". It's more in the lines of "I'm entering a thread dedicated to a game only to say that this game, in my opinion, sucks horribly".You'll know that I think a game "sucks" when I say that a game "sucks". Put your crystal ball away for now.

I don't think I'm alone, at least not on the basis of some of the replies here, in being pretty tired of what seems to be a constant "Insert FF Character Here" threads. The most obvious culprit is of course this Sephiroth. If you want to do A vs B then we have a thread dedicated to just that.

[Tengu]

stuff

A very good and in-depth analysis, though I must add one thing. Sephiroth looks rather stereotypical due to the fact that he was the source of the stereotype - which is the case with many things including FF7, I think.

Though I must say that I still like Sephiroth more as a character - there's something in Kuja that really annoys me in a bad way.


You'll know that I think a game "sucks" when I say that a game "sucks". Put your crystal ball away for now.

I don't think I'm alone, at least not on the basis of some of the replies here, in being pretty tired of what seems to be a constant "Insert FF Character Here" threads. The most obvious culprit is of course this Sephiroth. If you want to do A vs B then we have a thread dedicated to just that.

Well, I myself think that this should go to the A vs B thread. But you haven't said that you are tired of threads like this one. You said

How about we put all the FF characters in one big thread?

(And then sink it to the bottom of the ocean)

[Shadow of the Sun]

hahaHahAhAhahahAha!

You didn't heed my warning! Your souls shall forever be lost!

[Sephiroth]

for once i agree this need to be stop sure i made a few but then i made some others for eg the tau and SM one the fave ff magic and some mugen which are dead BUT this stop here

[Setra]

f you want to do A vs B then we have a thread dedicated to just that.
The problem is

A vs. B is a thread where people ask Jade Tarem who wins, instead of debating it themselves.

Why not just let people argue? Not like they're forcing you to read the thread.

[Bandanna Jones]

Not a big fan of either, but Kuja is a fruit. Sephiroth wins on both accounts.

[SITB]

The problem is

A vs. B is a thread where people ask Jade Tarem who wins, instead of debating it themselves.

Why not just let people argue? Not like they're forcing you to read the thread.

I recall that Jade Tarem said that other people could also try their hand at the whole VS thing, combined with the fact that people can argue with the outcome it can be used to make all VS threads obsolete.

[EvilElitest]

I recall that Jade Tarem said that other people could also try their hand at the whole VS thing, combined with the fact that people can argue with the outcome it can be used to make all VS threads obsolete.

I depends, if you on making a judgment on a small standard, then the A vs. B thread is best, but for something more complex that would require more posts then one ought to make ones own thread.
I can understanding shutting down hte Link vs. Seph thread because it was a monster

Link won

But most of the rest seem fine
from,
EE

[Sephiroth]

OUT OF HAND OUT OF HAND
also link didn't win nor did sephy no one won also they close it via it going over 50etc

also in this none of them wins

[doliemaster]

Me and My friend argue this, you know how I end it? Do you?

There is no possible comparsion, they are in different games and universes, different power systems and all other things,
Power-My friend says that Kuja is stronger because he destroyed a planet, but Sepiroth couldn't , but guess what? Sepiroth couldn't destroy the planet cause then the game would be over with the bad guy winning while in the game FF9 there were two planets which alowed Kuja to blow one up.
Anything else- Different games and universes nothing can be clearly compared.

[Faithdreamer]

I liked Kuja, he was Bishounen Girlish and I liked his motivations more than Sephiroth's. It is prejudice on my part.

[Dr._Weird]

Me and My friend argue this, you know how I end it? Do you?

There is no possible comparsion, they are in different games and universes, different power systems and all other things,
Power-My friend says that Kuja is stronger because he destroyed a planet, but Sepiroth couldn't , but guess what? Sepiroth couldn't destroy the planet cause then the game would be over with the bad guy winning while in the game FF9 there were two planets which alowed Kuja to blow one up.
Anything else- Different games and universes nothing can be clearly compared.

That's a horrible argument. The fact that you may have to use your imagination a teensy bit is implied in the question.

[doliemaster]

I only say it to shut him and any one else who argues over this up really-look you stopped posting the arguement just to tell me it sucked!