3.5 Warforged Sorcerer

[carrdrivesyou]

So I am making a character as a backup in a campaign I am in. The reason being, my current character can hardly keep up, and was just designed poorly due to a massive oversight that I had. Thematically speaking, I'd like to go Sonic and Force based attacks. I know that Warforged get a penalty to charisma, but I'm pretty set on it. Any ideas Playgrounders?

[ComaVision]

Magic-Blooded ("Spark") template will cancel out the Cha penalty, it's from Dragon magazine.

[Red Fel]

So I am making a character as a backup in a campaign I am in. The reason being, my current character can hardly keep up, and was just designed poorly due to a massive oversight that I had. Thematically speaking, I'd like to go Sonic and Force based attacks. I know that Warforged get a penalty to charisma, but I'm pretty set on it. Any ideas Playgrounders?

Meet the Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-%28from-Wizards-forums%29). This is the Sorcerer build that blasts with authority. You will use the Orb line of spells. This includes Orb of Force and Orb of Sound, which gets you precisely what you want - potent, direct force or sonic damage. Eventually, you will upgrade to spells like Vortex of Teeth.

Your only use for Charisma is to make sure you can cast your spells well enough. I think there are some feats that let you base your usable spells on another stat, although I don't remember.

You will not be using Charisma to calculate saves or DCs, because you will not be using saves or DCs. You will be using direct damage spells, simple, ranged touch attacks, no save, no SR, eat damage to the face. You will do this, and murder one enemy at a time. Your spells will get bigger, and you will murder multiple enemies at a time.

Your Charisma will be relevant only to your ability to learn and use spells.

[ZamielVanWeber]

You need to take the feat that removes your composite plating at level 1 so you don't suffer ASF all the time. Otherwise it is pretty much generic sorcerer advice.

ComaVision is correct in suggesting Magic-Blooded. It gives some SLAs but the big one is moving that Cha penalty to Wis. Unless you stack on Wis skills (as a sorcerer why would you?) you can easily cover the loss to Will by having a good Will + Items and losing any Cha is painful. Even if the DM is worried about the SLAs just asked for the stat mods.

[carrdrivesyou]

Meet the Mailman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?447435-quot-The-Mailman-A-Direct-Damage-Sorcerer-quot-%28from-Wizards-forums%29). This is the Sorcerer build that blasts with authority. You will use the Orb line of spells. This includes Orb of Force and Orb of Sound, which gets you precisely what you want - potent, direct force or sonic damage. Eventually, you will upgrade to spells like Vortex of Teeth.

Your only use for Charisma is to make sure you can cast your spells well enough. I think there are some feats that let you base your usable spells on another stat, although I don't remember.

You will not be using Charisma to calculate saves or DCs, because you will not be using saves or DCs. You will be using direct damage spells, simple, ranged touch attacks, no save, no SR, eat damage to the face. You will do this, and murder one enemy at a time. Your spells will get bigger, and you will murder multiple enemies at a time.

Your Charisma will be relevant only to your ability to learn and use spells.

I would totally do this, but taking it that far would be lethal to the party. The DM has a habit of taking our own tricks and using them against us. So I may go about this halfway.

[Rubik]

You need to take the feat that removes your composite plating at level 1 so you don't suffer ASF all the time. Otherwise it is pretty much generic sorcerer advice.Ixnay on the eatfay. Try agonbornDray, instead. MUCH stronger optionay.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Ixnay on the eatfay. Try agonbornDray, instead. MUCH stronger optionay.

I forgot that dragonborn strips the plating off. Whoops!

[carrdrivesyou]

What about a Mailman/Magic Missile Mage hybrid? Would it work with arcane fusion?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Dragon Compendium has a PrC whose sole purpose is to make magic missle better. Take on some spiffy metamagic and you can have fun. Hardly optimal under normal circumstances, but a blast regardless. I would still recommend taking some orb spells because of SR: No.

[Rubik]

I forgot that dragonborn strips the plating off. Whoops!It even works with the "sorcerers are descendants of dragons" angle. You're a warforged partially composed of dragon parts, and it rubbed off on you.

Of course, sorcerers are really stupid, if you think about it too hard. You have a naturally occurring ability to throw bat poo at people and make it explode, but only if you sing "I'm a Little Teapot" and dance the Macarena while doing so. What kind of "naturally occurring ability" is that?

[carrdrivesyou]

It even works with the "sorcerers are descendants of dragons" angle. You're a warforged partially composed of dragon parts, and it rubbed off on you.

Of course, sorcerers are really stupid, if you think about it too hard. You have a naturally occurring ability to throw bat poo at people and make it explode, but only if you sing "I'm a Little Teapot" and dance the Macarena while doing so. What kind of "naturally occurring ability" is that?

An explosive, painful one?

[Rubik]

An explosive, painful one?Granted, but still.

[carrdrivesyou]

If singing "I'm a Little Teapot" and the Macarena net you fireball, does the Electric slide and AC/DC's Thunderstruck get you a lightning bolt?

[ComaVision]

If singing "I'm a Little Teapot" and the Macarena net you fireball, does the Electric slide and AC/DC's Thunderstruck get you a lightning bolt?

No, that's a Bard/Stormsinger.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Definitely throw Dragonborn of Bahamut from Races of the Dragon onto your Magic-Blooded Warforged chassis. You keep your original type and subtype, along with everything that a creature of your type and subtype always has. You'll only lose the composite plating and light fortification, plus everything Magic-Blooded gives except the ability bonuses, and in exchange you can get wings or a breath attack. Your total ability score adjustments will be Dex -2, Con +4, Wis -4. If you opt for the breath attack you can use the spell Blinding Breath (SC) to great effect.

As a Dragonborn, you'll have the dragonblood subtype, so you can get the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level and pick up Draconic Heritage instead of a familiar, though there aren't many benefits to this apart from flavor. Pick a variety associated with force or sonic that gets you a useful class skill (Diplomacy, Perform, Spot, Listen, Survival, or Escape Artist), and pick spells from Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic that have an improved effect for dragonblooded casters, particularly Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry.

You'll need to be good aligned to be Dragonborn, so you should also use the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick. A quarterstaff is a double weapon, so put two wand chambers from Dungeonscape in it (or make it an Elvencraft Longbow and put three in it). The Rules Compendium says wands take the same action to activate as the spell's casting time, so a wand of Nerveskitter or Wings of Cover is still an immediate action to activate, as long as you're already holding it, or holding the item that has it in a wand chamber. Also be sure to pick up a +1 Mithral Buckler since there's no drawbacks even for lacking proficiency, and you can use that hand to hold your runestaff while you use the other hand to cast.

Get a good variety of crowd controls that attack each type of save. For 1st level spells there's Wall of Smoke, Grease, and Color Spray, for 2nd level spells there's Cloud of Bewilderment, Web, and Glitterdust. You generally want to replace Cloud of Bewilderment with Stinking Cloud but keep Web and Glitterdust, and use the rest of your 2nd-3rd level spells known for buffs, utility, and damage dealing (Alter Self, Dispel Magic, Fireball, etc.). The Ancestral Relic Runestaff will make your spell selection significantly easier, since you can pick up a powerful situational spell (Command Undead) or buff you won't cast often (Heart of Water) on that instead of spending one of your limited number of spells known on it.

[carrdrivesyou]

Definitely throw Dragonborn of Bahamut from Races of the Dragon onto your Magic-Blooded Warforged chassis. You keep your original type and subtype, along with everything that a creature of your type and subtype always has. You'll only lose the composite plating and light fortification, plus everything Magic-Blooded gives except the ability bonuses, and in exchange you can get wings or a breath attack. Your total ability score adjustments will be Dex -2, Con +4, Wis -4. If you opt for the breath attack you can use the spell Blinding Breath (SC) to great effect.

As a Dragonborn, you'll have the dragonblood subtype, so you can get the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level and pick up Draconic Heritage instead of a familiar, though there aren't many benefits to this apart from flavor. Pick a variety associated with force or sonic that gets you a useful class skill (Diplomacy, Perform, Spot, Listen, Survival, or Escape Artist), and pick spells from Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic that have an improved effect for dragonblooded casters, particularly Wings of Cover and Wings of Flurry.

You'll need to be good aligned to be Dragonborn, so you should also use the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick. A quarterstaff is a double weapon, so put two wand chambers from Dungeonscape in it (or make it an Elvencraft Longbow and put three in it). The Rules Compendium says wands take the same action to activate as the spell's casting time, so a wand of Nerveskitter or Wings of Cover is still an immediate action to activate, as long as you're already holding it, or holding the item that has it in a wand chamber. Also be sure to pick up a +1 Mithral Buckler since there's no drawbacks even for lacking proficiency, and you can use that hand to hold your runestaff while you use the other hand to cast.

Get a good variety of crowd controls that attack each type of save. For 1st level spells there's Wall of Smoke, Grease, and Color Spray, for 2nd level spells there's Cloud of Bewilderment, Web, and Glitterdust. You generally want to replace Cloud of Bewilderment with Stinking Cloud but keep Web and Glitterdust, and use the rest of your 2nd-3rd level spells known for buffs, utility, and damage dealing (Alter Self, Dispel Magic, Fireball, etc.). The Ancestral Relic Runestaff will make your spell selection significantly easier, since you can pick up a powerful situational spell (Command Undead) or buff you won't cast often (Heart of Water) on that instead of spending one of your limited number of spells known on it.

I'll ask the GM if I can take the Dragonborn bit, but it's unlikely. He tends to keep towards thematically appropriate characters. I.e. No robots with dragonblood. If there is a paticular feat lying aorund for it, I am all game for that. Also, does anyone recall which edition of Dragon magazine MAgic-blooded comes from?

[ZamielVanWeber]

I'll ask the GM if I can take the Dragonborn bit, but it's unlikely. He tends to keep towards thematically appropriate characters. I.e. No robots with dragonblood. If there is a paticular feat lying aorund for it, I am all game for that. Also, does anyone recall which edition of Dragon magazine MAgic-blooded comes from?

It isn't "I was made with dragon bits" but rather that the God of Good Dragonkind himself, Bahamut, has asked for your assistance in helping him fight evil dragons and, upon accepting, you are changed via a divine ritual he become a dragon born of Bahamut.

Also spark is from 306.

[Troacctid]

No, that's a Bard/Stormsinger.

No, Stormsingers have supernatural abilities, so they don't need verbal or somatic components.

[carrdrivesyou]

It isn't "I was made with dragon bits" but rather that the God of Good Dragonkind himself, Bahamut, has asked for your assistance in helping him fight evil dragons and, upon accepting, you are changed via a divine ritual he become a dragon born of Bahamut.

Also spark is from 306.

So it would seem. I just read the entry, and the pre-requisites are: Must be non-evil, and INT of at least 3. Strange. A winged robot made of wood and animated by arcane power. Well...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Another alternative would be to make a Psion instead of a Sorcerer, which gets around the Cha penalty of Warforged. In that case you can even take Adamantine Body and not have to worry about arcane spell failure. This handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238) would be a good start, and I would recommend going Shaper for your discipline since there are so many energy powers on the general list. Any energy power can be used to deal sonic damage or any other type of energy besides acid when appropriate, and there are plenty of force effects and object-hurling attacks (Crystal Shard, Telekinetic Thrust).

[Rubik]

Another alternative would be to make a Psion instead of a Sorcerer, which gets around the Cha penalty of Warforged. In that case you can even take Adamantine Body and not have to worry about arcane spell failure. This handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10238) would be a good start, and I would recommend going Shaper for your discipline since there are so many energy powers on the general list. Any energy power can be used to deal sonic damage or any other type of energy besides acid when appropriate, and there are plenty of force effects and object-hurling attacks (Crystal Shard, Telekinetic Thrust).And use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19788955&postcount=274) to massively boost your damage output while reducing the number of pp you spend. You just have to abuse the action economy to get in a ton of small pot-shots instead of one big one. Resistances get a lot more painful for you, however.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

And use this trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19788955&postcount=274) to massively boost your damage output while reducing the number of pp you spend. You just have to abuse the action economy to get in a ton of small pot-shots instead of one big one. Resistances get a lot more painful for you, however.

I'm not sure if that actually works. It seems to be based on the last portion of this line from Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm):
"If you force the subject to engage in combat, its attack bonus is equal to your base attack bonus + your Intelligence bonus, and its bonus on damage rolls is equal to your Intelligence bonus."

This doesn't necessarily mean that you add your Int bonus to all damage rolls. Rather, that any ability score bonuses you would normally get to damage use your Int bonus instead. A psionic power would need to normally add your Str or Dex bonus to the damage it deals to be substituted for your Int bonus.

However, psionic powers are considered spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#psionics) for purposes of game mechanics (no components, can't be counterspelled, but still provoke an AoO). You can use Quicken/Maximize/Empower Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsterFeats.htm) for them, and at 1st level you can take Mortalbane (BoVD) and use the power Hammer to deal 1d8+2d6 damage per touch, plus a Warforged can use his natural slam attack to deliver it (which will add 1.5x his Int bonus to damage with Control Body).

[Rubik]

I'm not sure if that actually works. It seems to be based on the last portion of this line from Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm):
"If you force the subject to engage in combat, its attack bonus is equal to your base attack bonus + your Intelligence bonus, and its bonus on damage rolls is equal to your Intelligence bonus."

This doesn't necessarily mean that you add your Int bonus to all damage rolls. Rather, that any ability score bonuses you would normally get to damage use your Int bonus instead. A psionic power would need to normally add your Str or Dex bonus to the damage it deals to be substituted for your Int bonus.

However, psionic powers are considered spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#psionics) for purposes of game mechanics (no components, can't be counterspelled, but still provoke an AoO). You can use Quicken/Maximize/Empower Spell-Like Ability (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/monsterFeats.htm) for them, and at 1st level you can take Mortalbane (BoVD) and use the power Hammer to deal 1d8+2d6 damage per touch, plus a Warforged can use his natural slam attack to deliver it (which will add 1.5x his Int bonus to damage with Control Body).It doesn't say it replaces the extant ability bonus to damage; it just says that it grants a bonus. It's quite possible to get damage bonuses of several types to power damage, such as Power Specialization. Control body just gives you +Int mod as bonus damage, and it doesn't actually require you to have any prior damage bonuses.

Unlike options such as the Shadow Blade feat, it never mentions anything about melee or ranged attacks, just damage.

[Fizban]

you should also use the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick..
Hey, I think that's the first time I've seen anyone else mention that! Sure it probably made the rounds ages ago but I was quite pleased when I first figured it out myself.

[daremetoidareyo]

Because it is kinda hidden, I'de like to point out the wand bonding feat in City of stormreach.

It's a warforged feat. Pre-reqs are warforged, ability to spontaneaously cast arcane or infusions.

Benefits: "When activating a wand, you can choose to sacrifice an arcane spell slot or infusion slot of the level of the spell to be cast from the wand (or a higher level) instead of using one of the charges in the wand. In addition to powering the wand, this increases the caster level of the effect by one for every five caster levels you possess. A wand must have at least one charge for you to activate it in this way."

Special: a warforged sorcerer can take this feat in place of receiving a familiar at first level.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Hey, I think that's the first time I've seen anyone else mention that! Sure it probably made the rounds ages ago but I was quite pleased when I first figured it out myself.

The only "downside" to it is if your DM keeps to MIC's advice to keep the spells thematically linked. The term is vague enough, though, that you can easily choose "mobility" and end up with (Greater) Plane Shift, (Greater) Teleport, Haste, Expeditious Retreat, Dimension Door, and pretty much any other teleportation or move speed boosting spell you want. If your DM doesn't enforce thematic linking it is an amazing way to keep sorcerer happy.

[daremetoidareyo]

If you can use the dead levels variant (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a), you can net a +2 to knowledge arcana checks pertaining to a single creature type, with an additional +1 per sorcerer level. Pair with knowledge devotion to whoop on some dragons or whatever magical type creature is going to be common in your campaign.

[Fizban]

The theme is, of course, "Spells my ancestor wishes me to know." :smallwink:

[Rubik]

The theme is, of course, "Spells my ancestor wishes me to know." :smallwink:Ancestral Derelict?

[Endarire]

What can you do to allay your GM's reciprocity if you optimize?

Also, your CHA normally determines your bonus spell slots and CHA-based skill modifier.

[ZamielVanWeber]

What can you do to allay your GM's reciprocity if you optimize?

Also, your CHA normally determines your bonus spell slots and CHA-based skill modifier.

And your maximum spell castable. If you start with a Cha of 14 or less you are going to eventually run into the issue where your base stat alone cannot guarantee you spellcasting.

[Dread_Head]

And your maximum spell castable. If you start with a Cha of 14 or less you are going to eventually run into the issue where your base stat alone cannot guarantee you spellcasting.

Only if you never gain access to a Cha boosting item of any sort. Even then with a 14 starting stat you can cast spells of your highest spell level at all levels except 18 and 19. Provided you have at least a starting Cha of 11 and access to wealth by level appropriate stat boosting items you can cast your highest level spell at all spell levels. Admittedly not well but it's certainly possible.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Only if you never gain access to a Cha boosting item of any sort. Even then with a 14 starting stat you can cast spells of your highest spell level at all levels except 18 and 19. Provided you have at least a starting Cha of 11 and access to wealth by level appropriate stat boosting items you can cast your highest level spell at all spell levels. Admittedly not well but it's certainly possible.

Risking losing out your high level spells to Disjunction or GDM is a thing though and a valid strategy at higher levels to block a pile of high level spells.

[carrdrivesyou]

What can you do to allay your GM's reciprocity if you optimize?

Also, your CHA normally determines your bonus spell slots and CHA-based skill modifier.

As long as I don't spam Twin-empower-max-split-ray-substituted sonic polar rays at things, It really shouldn't be a problem. He's cool with the occasional "Mega"-blast, but if I use it more than once per encounter (on average), more than th eparty will see something similar coming back at us down the road.

[atemu1234]

Because it is kinda hidden, I'de like to point out the wand bonding feat in City of stormreach.

It's a warforged feat. Pre-reqs are warforged, ability to spontaneaously cast arcane or infusions.

Benefits: "When activating a wand, you can choose to sacrifice an arcane spell slot or infusion slot of the level of the spell to be cast from the wand (or a higher level) instead of using one of the charges in the wand. In addition to powering the wand, this increases the caster level of the effect by one for every five caster levels you possess. A wand must have at least one charge for you to activate it in this way."

Special: a warforged sorcerer can take this feat in place of receiving a familiar at first level.

This is interesting.

Also, CHA isn't that important. You'll want a post-racial stat minimum of 14, and by the time spell levels are too many, you'll be able to boost your charisma with items.

[carrdrivesyou]

I also heard mention of a feat that drops the 5% arcane spell failure? Any source for that?