D&D 3.x Other Zaydos Does a Request [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Zaydos

2015-11-09, 10:50 PM

If you are taking requests... I would love something that combines binding and incarnum (or spirits and akashic powers, if you feel like going PF) that can be as big or as small as you want. From vestiges that grant essentia / can be bound to chakras. To a new theurgic base class that uses such vestiges. Since you've brewed incarnum races and vestige I assume familiarity with both.

Also as a possible source of inspiration I've always loved the Midnight Occultist (http://forum.faxcelestis.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22)

I love Midnight Occultist. Still don't really have the hang of incarnum but this was a fairly easy one so went ahead and did it first. One vestige that grants incarnum and has abilities you can invest essentia into (no chakra binding), and because they came naturally 3 vestige based soulmelds. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457298-Vestigial-Incarnum&p=20056526#post20056526)

I would like to see a 20 level base class or 10 level prestige class for a fully social/courtier/diplomat character. A "diplomancer" that isn't just "I roll the same Bluff and Diplomacy skills you do, but I've got a bigger bonus".

Would this be close? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?304975-Courtier-%28Base-Class-PEACH%29)

In the spirit of the upcoming new Star Wars movie, I'd like you to create a fantasy Jedi Knight prc (5 or 10 levels, up to you) and beat everyone on the timing! Mind that it doesn't necessarily have to wield a lightsaber, but the main point should be a nimble and agile sword master with some slas!

This assuming you have familiarity with Star Wars..if not, what about a Dragoon prc? Jumping VERY high in the sky and hitting enemies from above with lances or spears with maybe some elemental powers!

EDIT - 3.5 or PF

I'll think about it, a dragoon PrC might be possible, I have a decent place to start at least. and here is a quick dragoon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457373-Dragoon-%28FF-PrC%29&p=20056833#post20056833) prc.

I would like a summoner/controller/binder of outsiders in anime-style.
Thanks for all.

Define in anime-style. I can think of several different ways they do it in anime and some are pretty close to PF's summoner.

A giant that has a Medium humanoid's body fused into the back of his head, the humanoid's ribcage replacing part of the giant's skull. The Medium creature does not have legs, but does have arms, and is a fairly powerful wizard. The giant is of roughly average intelligence, and mostly does what the "little wizard guy" tells it to. They can communicate psychically because the smaller one's spinal column interfaces with the giant's brain in a manner that allows that.

Hmm... Dual mind feature.. figure out how to work it...

If you've seen the anime "Deadman's Wonderland" if you made the super powers (branch of sin) all the main/mainish characters had into a base class that would be fun. Otherwise it's kinda like a soulknife,but they use their own blood instead of psionics, idk that could be an easy refluff.
I'm pretty sure the shows on Netflix, and it's only one season long if that sounds interesting, but it is a little gore intensive.

This one I'm going to say is pretty unlikely. I've "watched" Deadman's Wonderland (here defined as getting distracted on laptop while watching it on Netflix) and it didn't really hook me enough to get attention required for this and I don't feel like re-watching it.

A base class oriented around the phases of the moon; as the moon changes, the role the class plays in the party would change, too.

Alternatively, a base class based around manifesting physical expressions of emotions and concepts as weaponry, armor, attack constructs, etc., with abilities that vary depending on the concept manifested.

I am trying on the moon one, got distracted with an easier request, but I'm trying on the moon one, just have to figure out how to deal with the problem of shifting roles that you only have partial control over, that and figure out whether I should go with a subsystem, multiple subsystems depending upon the current moon phase, or not work in an existing subsystem.

if you accept honest dancer class or cohort maid class

"honest dancer"? Cohort intended classes tend to be problematic in general and I take it the anime hypercompetent ninja maid is the intent?

A Drunken Boxing Prestige Class using your Intoxicanter.

It's on one of the burners, can't make promises since it's not really got the heat on yet.

Drunken Boxer

Dehydrating Touch +1d6 (odd levels)
Intoxicating Combo:
Drunken Weave:
Ki Strike
Unarmed Damage (starts at 1d8, ends at 2d8)
Swift Quaff
Drunken Focus (gain bonus to abilities, in exchange for taking immunity piercing ability damage)

I've got a few.

I'd like a class based on manipulating the terrain around you. Think the Earth Bender from Avatar. Using your abilities to make crude buildings as shelter, making extradimensional rooms in a building to hide out in, and capturing your enemy in a tomb of earth all are cool ideas in my mind.

Some type of "forceful" incarnum class, instead of benefits, you bind penalties, corrupting their soul.

Gish Doomsayer?

A prestige class that is based around flowers, various flowers providing different effects. It's an AoE Buffer.

A Soul Knife + Binding? You bind your vestiges to your weapon.

A perfume based class!

For the first I'd probably start with cribbing from the Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?442986-The-Final-Fantasy-Job-System-in-a-Class-Freelancer), but it would need more non-damage options (theoretically a job is intended as ~1/2 a character, though they're overloaded for that, and FF is very much direct combat oriented). Also if you do follow the link, just go to the two posts about Geomancer, the rest is not really relevant and long.

For the second... I would need clarification as to what you meant by "forceful" and what you wanted binding penalties to do.

So something similar to Martial Doomsayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17991136&postcount=11) but without the trade of non-malison invocations for maneuvers? Quick variant would be trading bonus malisons for Full BAB, d8 HD, and martial weapon proficiency, but I'm not really sure how "balanced" that is (my guess is that it ends up above tier 3, but Doomsayer ends up above tier 3).

Interesting.

Full BAB, d10 HD, one ability per vestige, each vestige can be bound to weapon (possibly with type limitations), armor, or shield and you gain multiple binds as you level. It would require 1 or 2 new abilities per vestige, which should be doable, might be a while before it is done (even ignoring other requests that falls under big project)... Could be quite neat and is a good way to make a "gish-binder"/full BAB binding class which is something I had been wanting to do.

I just think of this guy (http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Ichiya_Vandalay_Kotobuki).

A caster who casts livings spells. As in the template.

Spell Sovereign (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_Sovereign) (Dra #357)? I'm trying to think of a good way to do it other than just the PrC although that is one of their more minor abilities and the 3 levels of casting lost hurt.

I would actually vote for an 'author' prestige class/base class and/or variant of The Bard that uses descriptive words and the power of compelling prose, magically woven, to influence people or tie them up in stories of his or her own devising. Possibly with a capstone ability of creating his or her own 'world' in a book.

This got put here while I was typing this post so it might be a bit before I can really get to planning something good based upon this. Might still come to naught, if it gets done it'll probably be a bard variant that switches Bardic Music out for something based upon story telling in specific.

And closing this to new requests for now.

dragonmoon

2015-11-10, 05:06 PM

spikeof2010

2015-11-11, 10:45 AM

When I was referring to forceful, I meant more so in that you "forcefully" form soulmelds on your enemy for detrimental effects.

brian 333

2015-11-11, 12:02 PM

In my 1st Edition AD&D campaign I created a stone-age halfling nomadic tribal society based around herding ostriches on a vast grassland. Some warriors of the tribes tamed hatchling Axebeaks and trained them as riding animals. They were always played as very fond of their beasts of burden, which I inferred as a magical bond of some kind, but as the players were never of that society the actual mechanics of these tribal warriors and their mounts remained an unsolved mystery. (I used an either/or method of combat for them: either the bird or its rider could execute an attack, but not both in a single round.)

One fireside tale had to do with a halfling youth who went out into the grasslands alone, facing the dangers of the wild to find an Axebeak nest from which he stole an egg from under the watchful eye of the axebeak parent.

The favored weapons were the light lance, javelin, bola, and dagger, (all of stone age construction.) Their dress was largely made of ostrich feathers, with males favoring the large tail and wing feathers and females preferring the downy breast feathers. Their villages were temporary, with houses seldom more substantial than woven local grass laid over wickerwork domes.

Zaydos

2015-11-11, 06:00 PM

For me an anime-style summoner is a guy with little magical ability (spells or spell-like abilities), but the possibility to control, bind to an item or to himself a spirit/demon (outsider). The guy usually has a "first" demon cohort and a number of lesser demons with little firepower but usually several fun skills. For example the manga Trinetra, the anime Overlord, the various Devil Survivor games.
The pathfinder summoner is about a "contruct" with several abilities and firepower, but no soul (the quarrel between Tora and Ushio in the manga/anime are fantastic) and a pletora of spells to summon an army of buffer beings for a combat turn. It's not the same thing.
Thanks for all your great prestige classes and sorry for my poor english.

I only watched a bit of Overlord and don't know who would fit that description (skeleton dude seemed a really powerful mage who used cohorts to avoid showing just how powerful he was but I didn't get that far). Have never actually played Devil Survivor though I know you summon demons with your cell phones. Is Trinetra 3x3 Eyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%C3%973_Eyes)? As for the last I would never have thought of Ushio as a summoner (more of a sohei from what I recall but I forget what powers he showed in the later half of the story), but I think I get the gist of what you want. I'll think about it, but I think this falls into a thing I'd end up going too overboard with and have to make far too many types of spirits so it'll be questionable if I will get to it.

When I was referring to forceful, I meant more so in that you "forcefully" form soulmelds on your enemy for detrimental effects.

Base Class or Prestige class?

Also been working on the vestige binding to weapons thing... it has veered some from weapons...

Goetic Knight

Object Vestige Binds|Basic Bind|Intense|Deep
Weapon| +1 to hit and damage.|+1d8 damage|+2d8 damage
Shield | +1 to shield bonus to AC, +1 to Reflex saves|Shield bonus to touch AC|Shield bonus to Reflex saves; if shield is inanimate Evasion.
Armor |+1 armor bonus to AC, +1 to Fort saves|DR 2/-, physical ability damage resistance 1|DR 5/- and delay Fort save effects by 1 round.
Cloak |+1 to all saves, +2 to Initiative|Universal Energy Resistance 10|+3 to all saves, advantage on Initiative checks.
Amulet |+2 to Listen, Search, and Spot, +1 to Will saves|Low-Light Vision, Darkvision, +2 to Int and Knowledge checks|Slippery Mind, Telepathy

Three levels of pact
Basic – No sign, no influence, good and bad pact are one and the same.
Intense – Has influence; requires ability to “bind” vestiges at least 2 levels higher (virtual 9th level vestiges gained at 20th, 10th at 22nd)
Deep – Shows sign, has influence; requires ability to “bind” vestiges at least 4 levels higher (virtual 9th level vestiges gained at 20th, 10th at 22nd)

Amon (Weapon Bind)
Basic Bind: +1d6 fire damage + ½ tool binding level.
Intense Bind: You gain the ability to blind enemies with a melee attack. As a swift action you can charge your next melee attack with this ability. Lasts 1 round/4 tool binding levels, Fort negates. Once used 5 round reset.
Deep Bind: +3d6 fire damage. Ignore DR of Outsiders and +2d6 damage against outsiders.

Aym (Armor Bind)
Special Requirement: Medium or heavier armor.
Basic Bind: You radiate damaging heat. Any creature which starts or ends its turn within 5 ft of you takes 1d6 fire damage + 1 per 2 tool binding levels.
Intense Bind: Whenever a creature strikes you in melee they must make a Reflex save or their weapon shatters. Natural weapons are unaffected. Magic weapons do not shatter but have their magic properties suppressed for 1 minute and each failed save during that period inflicts damage to them equal to 1/3rd their maximum health.
Deep Bind: As a standard action you may teleport any item you can see into your hand. A Will save (on the part of the item’s carrier or itself if it is magic) negates this effect. Once you have used this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.

Leraje (Weapon Bind)
Special Requirement: Ranged weapon only.
Basic Bind: You gain Precise Shot as a bonus feat. In addition you add 1d6 + ½ your tool binding level precision damage within 30 ft.
Intense Bind: You ignore all range penalties.
Deep Bind: You gain Improved Precise Shot as a bonus feat, and the bonus damage from the basic bind is no longer limited in range or considered precision damage.

Naberius (Amulet Bind)
Basic Bind: Select a number of skills equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1) plus 1 per tool binding level beyond 1st. You gain a +3 bonus to each of the selected skills and may make checks with them untrained.
Intense Bind: You may take 10 on the selected skills even if you are threatened or rushed (this does not allow you to take 10 with a skill that you normally could not such as Use Magic Device).
Deep Bind: You gain the Least Exaggerated Skill in each skill you selected with the Basic Bind, and the bonus from the Basic Bind increases to +6.

Ronove (Weapon Bind)
Special Requirement: Melee weapon only.
Basic Bind: By taking a -2 penalty to all attacks as part of a full attack action you may make an additional attack with the bound weapon. In addition it overcomes DR as if magic and cold iron.
Intense Bind: You are able to make attacks as part of a full attack with the bound weapon out to 5 ft beyond your reach per 3 tool binding levels. Once you use this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.
Deep Bind: You suffer no penalty to attack rolls when taking advantage of the Basic Bind ability and may make a second additional attack with the bound weapon at -5 (only to that attack).

Dahvler-Nar (Shield Bind)
Basic Bind: Whenever a creature deals damage to you they receive 1 point of damage per 3 they dealt to you.
Intense Bind: You gain a +4 bonus to Wisdom. As an immediate action when you succeed at a Will save against a mind-affecting effect you may redirect it upon the original source as if you were the source (use the same DC that you saved against), the prevents you from taking any effect which would be applied upon a successful save as if you had Mettle. Once you use this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.
Deep Bind: You may gain the powers and benefits of a 5th level or lower vestige as if it were bound. You may change which vestige you gain the powers of by spending 5 minutes in concentration.

Haagenti (Weapon Bind)
Special Requirement: Melee weapon only.
Basic Bind: +1d6 cold damage + ½ tool binding level, and you deal that much fire damage against creatures with the cold subtype.
Intense Bind: You may smite creatures with higher Charisma than yourself and/or giants as a paladin smites evil. You add your Constitution modifier to hit and your tool binding level to damage. Once you’ve used this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.
Deep Bind: Whenever you strike a creature you deal 2 points of Charisma damage.

Malphas (Weapon Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain Sudden Strike +1d6 +1d6/3 tool binding levels (with bound weapon only).
Intense Bind: As a swift action you can create a dose of poison upon the bound blade which deals 1d6 Dex damage initial and secondary. This poison vanishes after 5 rounds and you have no chance of poisoning yourself (as if you had poison use). Once you have used this ability you cannot use it again until 5 rounds have passed.
Deep Bind: Creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus against your attacks with the bound weapon.

Savnok (Armor Bind)
Special Requirement: Heavy armor only.
Basic Bind: +2 to armor bonus of bound armor (total +3) and 5% resistance to crits per tool binding level
Intense Bind: You gain the ability to teleport two creatures within 10 ft per tool binding level up to 5 ft per tool binding level each as a standard action. You must have line of effect and sight to each target and each location. Once you have used 5 round reset.
Deep Bind: You gain the ability to change the battlefield itself. As a standard action you can make a square be able to be passed through as if any creature passing through it was under the effect of a Freedom of Movement spell (they can still be grappled) or make a square cost an extra square of movement to enter and leave. With one use of this ability you may affect any number of squares within 5 ft per tool binding level, and may affect some squares in one way and others in the opposite; if two goatic knights affect the same square with opposing uses of this ability they cancel each other out (Freedom of Movement effect does not win). Once you have used 5 round reset.

Andromalius (Amulet Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
Intense Bind: You gain the ability to See Invisibility as if with the spell continuously and can find traps like a rogue. You gain a +6 bonus to Search and Spot checks.
Deep Bind:

Focolar (Amulet Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain the ability to breathe water. In addition as a standard action you may release a blast of lightning within a 15 ft radius burst centered on yourself which deals 1d6 electricity damage per 2 tool binding levels you possess (Reflex halves).
Intense Bind: Any creature which fails its save against the burst of lightning suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for 1 round (no save). Any creature adjacent to you suffers the same penalty. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Deep Bind: You gain a swim speed equal to your land speed. As a standard action you may pour sorrow into a creature. They must make a Will save or be unable to act with sadness until the end of your next turn, while unable to act in this way they lose their Dexterity bonus to AC and attacks against them gain a +2 bonus. This is a mind-affecting effect. Once you have used this ability you cannot use it again for 5 rounds.

Buer (Cloak Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain immunity to poison and disease. You gain Fast Healing ½ your tool binding level.
Intense Bind: You gain the Track feat. You gain Scent.
Deep Bind: As a standard action you may heal a creature 6d8 damage with a touch (this is a positive energy effect and deals damage to undead). You may choose to sacrifice hit points (up to your current hit points) when using this ability, if you do so the target is healed that many additional hit points. A Will save halves the amount healed (or damage taken by undead). Once you have used this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.

Geryon (Cloak Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability.
Intense Bind: You gain Fire Immunity and the ability to see in darkness.
Deep Bind: All-Around Vision, plus Acidic Gaze. Standard action fully open diabolic eyes for single target gaze which deals 1d6/tool binder level (Will halves).

Chupoclops (Weapon Bind)
Basic Bind: You deal 2 Strength damage with each successful melee attack, a successful Fortitude save halves all strength damage received this way during a round (made first time in a round you strike them).
Intense Bind: Your weapon is considered to be ghost touch, in addition you may make a full attack with it at the end of a charge.
Deep Bind: As a swift action you may cause your weapon to become even more insubstantial hardening only as it sinks into foes. Until the end of turn all attacks you make with it are considered to be incorporeal touch attacks. In addition you may strike ethereal creatures while remaining on the Prime Material Plane. Once you have used this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.

Eligor (Armor Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain a +4 bonus to Strength. You can increase this bonus by 1/2 tool binding level until end of turn as a swift action. Once you do so you must wait 5 rounds before doing so again.
Intense Bind: You gain immunity to Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire.

Orthos (Cloak Bind)
Basic Bind: You gain Blindsight 30 ft. As a standard action you may attempt to scry on any creature (as if with Greater Scrying), you may only scry on any given creature this way 1/day.
Intense Bind: As a free action you may turn incorporeal until the start of your next turn, treating any and all objects you carry as if they were ghost touch. Once you have used this ability you must wait 5 rounds before using it again.

Some of that might be confusing because my documentation is a late phase thing, but I can try to explain anything not there in writing.

In my 1st Edition AD&D campaign I created a stone-age halfling nomadic tribal society based around herding ostriches on a vast grassland. Some warriors of the tribes tamed hatchling Axebeaks and trained them as riding animals. They were always played as very fond of their beasts of burden, which I inferred as a magical bond of some kind, but as the players were never of that society the actual mechanics of these tribal warriors and their mounts remained an unsolved mystery. (I used an either/or method of combat for them: either the bird or its rider could execute an attack, but not both in a single round.)

One fireside tale had to do with a halfling youth who went out into the grasslands alone, facing the dangers of the wild to find an Axebeak nest from which he stole an egg from under the watchful eye of the axebeak parent.

The favored weapons were the light lance, javelin, bola, and dagger, (all of stone age construction.) Their dress was largely made of ostrich feathers, with males favoring the large tail and wing feathers and females preferring the downy breast feathers. Their villages were temporary, with houses seldom more substantial than woven local grass laid over wickerwork domes.

I am not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from this. It doesn't seem to be a request, but it also doesn't seem to be referencing anything already being talked about. Was this posted in the wrong thread?

brian 333

2015-11-11, 07:28 PM

I am not sure what I'm supposed to be getting from this. It doesn't seem to be a request, but it also doesn't seem to be referencing anything already being talked about. Was this posted in the wrong thread?

My apologies for the lack of clarity.

You wanted ideas from which to generate PrC's and other content. This was an idea I used for an adventure, but never transferred to later editions of the game. If you like, you could create a fluff bit about the society I describe for later edition rules sets, or you could develop the idea as a prestige class. Or you could spend your time on other ideas, as this one apparently didn't catch your fancy.

spikeof2010

2015-11-12, 12:29 PM

Either or, base prefered

Dusk Raven

2015-11-12, 11:39 PM

When I first read this, I only thought you'd be picking one thing to do out of the requests, so I passed it off, then when I came back with an actual idea you had just closed the requests. Drat.

In any event, if and when you open up shop again, will it be in this thread or a new one?

Zaydos

2015-11-14, 12:18 PM

My apologies for the lack of clarity.

You wanted ideas from which to generate PrC's and other content. This was an idea I used for an adventure, but never transferred to later editions of the game. If you like, you could create a fluff bit about the society I describe for later edition rules sets, or you could develop the idea as a prestige class. Or you could spend your time on other ideas, as this one apparently didn't catch your fancy.

Ah, so a PrC for halflings with magical bonds to their Axebeak mounts? Possibly shared actions but that doesn't work too well in 3.5 as there are already several options for pseudo-magical bonds with mounts that don't apply that rather large penalty (see Halfling Outrider for example).

Either or, base prefered

PrC might get done, Base would require in effect a whole new subsystem or to mix it with regular meldshaping (which a PrC would by nature most likely), where PrC could get some nice fluff and focus on chakra binds instead of soulmeld equivalents...

Either way Goetic Knight (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?459228-Goetic-Knight-(WiP-Proof-of-Concept-New-Pact-Magic-Base-Class)) is now up for discussion in proof of concept state (needs some formatting and there's probably some heavy issues with certain pacts).

When I first read this, I only thought you'd be picking one thing to do out of the requests, so I passed it off, then when I came back with an actual idea you had just closed the requests. Drat.

In any event, if and when you open up shop again, will it be in this thread or a new one?

It'll depend upon if this thread stays alive/keeps getting comments. If it can be posted in without double posting or necromancy probably this thread again.

khadgar567

2015-11-14, 02:50 PM

well hyper competent anime maid works for me long as it can only accessed by leadership follower instead of pc

AtlasSniperman

2015-11-14, 02:54 PM

Dusk Raven

2015-11-14, 04:48 PM

This is cool man. I think I'll do a naughty though;

Defining term- "theurgic": any character option that when a level is taken, improves the abilities of two classes. Usually either a class(mystic theurge for wiz/clr) or feat(devoted inquisitor for certain abilities of both paladin and rogue).

Id like to see your take on a theurgic option for; Incarnate&Psion and/or Incarnate&Totemist.
Or really any Psionic and any Incarnum.

And just for the lulz; theurgic psychic warrior & fighter. Don't ask how that'd work, its your homebrew. XD

Bit pedantic, but I felt that you shouldn't define a term that already has a rather different definition. According to Merriam-Webster, theurgy is "the art or technique of compelling or persuading a god or beneficent or supernatural power to do or refrain from doing something" - basically, divine magic. It's one half of the Mystic Theurge, and the "mystic" part denotes arcane magic. As for what you intend it to mean, I'd offer "Gestalt" instead. Bit clumsy, but when we're talking about building a class we know you're not going by the UA Gestalt character rules.

AtlasSniperman

2015-11-14, 05:09 PM

Yeah I didn't know what word to use so I temporarily defined one for use in that post. I could have easily defined 'popiiliy' I suppose.

Zaydos

2015-11-14, 05:11 PM

well hyper competent anime maid works for me long as it can only accessed by leadership follower instead of pc

I'd actually probably not put that requirement on (though a DM could feel free to add it), since it's just odd mechanically (I don't like cohort only LA even), and prevents role-playing applications of being another PC's maid. Of course if you wanted a more natural way to encourage it you'd probably start by having abilities and class features which only help allies with a higher character level than yours, or perhaps it would be better to refer to ECL (and treat LA - as +0 though that is hardly accurate). I'll put some thought into a maid class and see if anything stirs other than "at-will prestidigitation (cleaning only)".

This is cool man. I think I'll do a naughty though;

Defining term- "theurgic": any character option that when a level is taken, improves the abilities of two classes. Usually either a class(mystic theurge for wiz/clr) or feat(devoted inquisitor for certain abilities of both paladin and rogue).

Id like to see your take on a theurgic option for; Incarnate&Psion and/or Incarnate&Totemist.
Or really any Psionic and any Incarnum.

And just for the lulz; theurgic psychic warrior & fighter. Don't ask how that'd work, its your homebrew. XD

I know you closed reqiests, so I'm storing this here for when you open it again.

Psychic Warrior & Fighter is actually the easiest to do something, it's just figuring out how much is too much.

Psychic Fighter [Fighter, General]
Although you have turned from the path of psionic power for mastery with the sword you find a meditation in the art of the blade which focuses your meager powers.
Prerequisites: Able to manifest psionic powers, Fighter level 3+.
Benefit: You may add 3/4th your fighter level to your Psychic Warrior level to determine Power Points and Psychic Warrior manifester level. You do not gain other benefits of the Psychic Warrior class (such as new powers known), nor will this increase your manifester level for other classes (although it may add PP based off the psychic warrior progression).

Number might be off (haven't done any math or checked PP for a psychic warrior) but since it requires actual fighter levels instead of PrC you're taking a cost at least and hopefully it justifies it to some extent.

Bit pedantic, but I felt that you shouldn't define a term that already has a rather different definition. According to Merriam-Webster, theurgy is "the art or technique of compelling or persuading a god or beneficent or supernatural power to do or refrain from doing something" - basically, divine magic. It's one half of the Mystic Theurge, and the "mystic" part denotes arcane magic. As for what you intend it to mean, I'd offer "Gestalt" instead. Bit clumsy, but when we're talking about building a class we know you're not going by the UA Gestalt character rules.

D&D however uses Theurge in Eldritch Theurge (warlock-arcane) as well indicating that WotC didn't realize that theurge described divine magic. Eldritch Theurge bothers me for just that reason.

Personally I'd go with Dual Classing, a call back to AD&D era human only multiclassing rules, a inside joke about how gestalt/theurgic/whatever feats and options are closer to 2e multiclassing than 3.x multiclassing (which is closer to dual classing), and something that has no meaning within 3.x in and of itself.

Ok, actually I'd probably have used theurgic because it's used that way in reference to D&D often enough even if I always want to add a footnote about how it's wrong.

Zaydos

2016-01-15, 06:19 PM

A base class oriented around the phases of the moon; as the moon changes, the role the class plays in the party would change, too.

Alternatively, a base class based around manifesting physical expressions of emotions and concepts as weaponry, armor, attack constructs, etc., with abilities that vary depending on the concept manifested.

Alright I had this approximately half done a month and a half ago but hit a roadblock and well I have finally posted most of what I've got (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475186-Moonborn-(Working-Title-WiP)) and would like advice on how to do one ability to the best effect. If you would like to help please look it over and comment on the big obvious question in the 4th post (don't worry 2 are placeholders).

Also

In Other News

I am taking requests again. If you are still interested in an old unfinished request repost it to let me know.

tsj

2016-01-16, 12:39 PM

Droopy McCool

2016-01-16, 07:25 PM

I don't know much about the different planes, and don't know if you were open to making a new one, but I was intrigued by the conversation in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474958-Natural-Force) thread on naturally occurring [Force]. If it is possible, I would like to request these:

Plane: Plane of Force
Creature: Force Elemental

Both, one, or neither are perfectly acceptable. :smallsmile:
Please and thank you.

McCool

Zaydos

2016-01-16, 07:49 PM

some ideers that might be fun and perhaps also useful:

a combination of a sorceror and a barbarian ("gish" type class) as a solid tier 3

a combination of a knight, a cleric and a paladin ("gish" type class) as a solid tier 3

a shapeshifting rogue with warlock invocations as a solid tier 3

a combination of a warmage, an arcane archer and a wizard ("blaster" type class) as a solid tier 3

a combination of a psion, a sorceror and a cleric as a solid tier 3

EDIT: I really like your Jedi class :)

With solid tier 3 do you mean in the middle of its power range or substantially above the threshold where it's place there gets questioned (like Warblade's and Duskblade's)?

Some of these will be hard to do regardless. I mean Warlock is high tier 4 without source books beyond CA and hellfire glaivelock probably beats out Warblade (can keep up with damage, slight disadvantage on a round/round, but with the ability to guarantee ~360 damage 3/day and has much more varied usefulness and can fight flying foes better)* combine that with shapeshifting that would make a class a shapeshifter and not just "I chose changeling as race" and well, Wild Shape Ranger into Master of Many Forms is a solid tier 3 on its own. So it might end up on the higher end of tier 3** and that's before figuring out rogue elements/skill points (well ok beyond at least 4). That said I picked the rogue one because it's the most likely for me to at least try, though the 'rogue' element may end up just being a "you can build for a skill monkey roll with proper scores and invocations".

The blaster mage one I just have to figure out what would really be "Wizard" unless you mean a prepared spellcaster that uses primarily evocation and d-d spells (well with Arcane Archer thrown in I'd guess that primarily imbues arrows with evocation and d-d).

Though I guess the biggest question would be the Psion/Cleric/Sorcerer I hear that and I imagine a PP system probably psionic for ease, class with a good number of new healing and possibly protective powers as well as a variety of direct damage allowing them to escape the healer trap (you can heal! Ok and...?) by making them a sort of combined Warmage/Healer with a pp system and probably powers known as opposed to prepped/fixed list. Though at that point I'm not sure what it's getting from Sorcerer unless its some sort of bloodline thing for fluff.

(The other two don't get mentioned for being relatively simple except for a question of solidly tier 3)

*:Don't really have a horse in the perennial warlock vs warblade tier debate it's just useful to bring up here because there is debate even without hellfire warlock/eldritch glaive (that gets into combat vs utility debate, though).

**: This is a complicated area and typically homebrew that ends up here ends up being "forces everyone to use homebrew that ends up here" as it tends to end up with too big numbers for tier 3s to compete with, but unable to actually deal with the challenges that beguiler, dread necromancer, a well built bard, or tier 2 can deal with. Does size up better against CoDzilla but lacks the ability to pull game play altering spells to go along with the big numbers***

***: Big numbers tend to be bad, they're at best a stealth fix for existing tier 3 melee (ToB and Duskblade).

I don't know much about the different planes, and don't know if you were open to making a new one, but I was intrigued by the conversation in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474958-Natural-Force) thread on naturally occurring [Force]. If it is possible, I would like to request these:

Plane: Plane of Force
Creature: Force Elemental

Both, one, or neither are perfectly acceptable. :smallsmile:
Please and thank you.

McCool

This brings back childhood memories of finding Planescape and going "Elemental Plane of Force! Force Elementals!" Never actually made either (not that they'd be useful).

Question: I'm assuming Force Elemental should follow standard elemental HD/size progression, etc (2/4/8/16/21/24 small/med/large/huge), but how close to standard elemental power should it be? I mean Shadow/Taint/Storm differ noticeably from earth/fire/water/air and each other (Storm is typically only a little stronger, I forget how much of a difference the other two make).

roko10

2016-01-17, 04:46 AM

If you're still open to requests, maybe a Mythos class?

Dusk Raven

2016-01-17, 09:17 PM

Damn it, once more I am late to the request party.

While I'm here, I might as well state my ideas, at least you can judge whether they're feasible. Basically, I want to create two classes for Pathfinder: the Persona and the Dragoon.

The Persona is essentially me writing some homebrew fluff for the Summoner that made them resemble the Persona-users from the Persona series of games, Persona 3 and Persona 4 in particular. Essentially, what I want to do is take away the spell-like Summon Monster ability, make the Eidolon a little more accessible when needed and maybe increase the upper limit of its power, and convert the spell list to psionics (using Dreamscarred press' conversion of 3.5's psionics system).

The other idea it's a little more original in terms of rules, mixes the Dragon from the PSX JRPG Legend of Dragoon, with a bit of the Dragoon from Final Fantasy XI. Essentially, my concept is of a martial warrior who has a small dragonlike being (let's call it a Drakkhen for now) that they're bonded with much like an animal companion or familiar. However, their bond is such that they can merge into a composite being, giving draconic abilities and enhanced powers to the warrior for the duration of the bond. I've got a few more details in mind, but I want to see how feasible it is. As well is if there's room.

EDIT: If planes are on the table, I could also use some input for a Plane of Cold and Plane of Electricity, though this would be mostly fluff-based and I'm sure I can dig up stats for elementals and such between 3.5 and Pathfinder.

khadgar567

2016-01-18, 02:20 AM

The other idea it's a little more original in terms of rules, mixes the Dragon from the PSX JRPG Legend of Dragoon, with a bit of the Dragoon from Final Fantasy XI. Essentially, my concept is of a martial warrior who has a small dragonlike being (let's call it a Drakkhen for now) that they're bonded with much like an animal companion or familiar. However, their bond is such that they can merge into a composite being, giving draconic abilities and enhanced powers to the warrior for the duration of the bond. I've got a few more details in mind, but I want to see how feasible it is. As well is if there's room.

so you want winged version of kain highwind if its than count me in on the same request

Dusk Raven

2016-01-18, 02:47 AM

so you want winged version of kain highwind if its than count me in on the same request

He's from FFIV, right? *checks* All right, well... no, that's not what I want. Kain can't use magic, for instance. Or transform. And he has that weird jump thing that FF Dragoons have. Seriously, I don't get why Final Fantasy Dragoons are called Dragoons...

Zaydos

2016-01-18, 03:49 AM

If you're still open to requests, maybe a Mythos class?

Not touching Mythos enough people are making those already especially if you don't have a particular archetype in mind.

Damn it, once more I am late to the request party.

While I'm here, I might as well state my ideas, at least you can judge whether they're feasible. Basically, I want to create two classes for Pathfinder: the Persona and the Dragoon.

The Persona is essentially me writing some homebrew fluff for the Summoner that made them resemble the Persona-users from the Persona series of games, Persona 3 and Persona 4 in particular. Essentially, what I want to do is take away the spell-like Summon Monster ability, make the Eidolon a little more accessible when needed and maybe increase the upper limit of its power, and convert the spell list to psionics (using Dreamscarred press' conversion of 3.5's psionics system).

The other idea it's a little more original in terms of rules, mixes the Dragon from the PSX JRPG Legend of Dragoon, with a bit of the Dragoon from Final Fantasy XI. Essentially, my concept is of a martial warrior who has a small dragonlike being (let's call it a Drakkhen for now) that they're bonded with much like an animal companion or familiar. However, their bond is such that they can merge into a composite being, giving draconic abilities and enhanced powers to the warrior for the duration of the bond. I've got a few more details in mind, but I want to see how feasible it is. As well is if there's room.

EDIT: If planes are on the table, I could also use some input for a Plane of Cold and Plane of Electricity, though this would be mostly fluff-based and I'm sure I can dig up stats for elementals and such between 3.5 and Pathfinder.

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the difference between PF and 3.5 and having not played Persona... I have been told that a psionic character with an eidolon like creation would cover Persona 3/4 fairly well but I'm not sure of the details on Summoners or Persona enough to do a good job.

As for the other I played Legend of Dragoon for ~2 hours once over a decade ago, but the basic concept I think I've got. How is XI Dragoon different from other iterations? Edit: Wiki indicates wyvern summoning? I mean warrior with a familiar like creature that they fuse with to get dragon powers is viable, you have to give the dragon alone some usefulness, probably non-combat utility in the form of flight, small size, and scouting, balance it assuming they will be in fused form during fights unless you throw on some limit to prevent that. Or possibly you take a cue from FFXI's Wyvern and make it where having them split while reducing your combat ability below a front line combatant's par gives you action economy advantages? Or else you limit the bond in some way (uses per day, recharge time, etc).

As for planes, they're on the table, but for the two you're requesting I would suggest checking out 2e Planescape there, as it had a Paraelemental Plane of Ice and a Quasielemental Plane of Storm. Best single book would be the Inner Planes one, but you can get a fair deal of information if you find some old sites on Planescape.

He's from FFIV, right? *checks* All right, well... no, that's not what I want. Kain can't use magic, for instance. Or transform. And he has that weird jump thing that FF Dragoons have. Seriously, I don't get why Final Fantasy Dragoons are called Dragoons...

In the first game they were introduced in they were dragon riding knights who wielded excalibur and didn't jump... why they called the rest dragoons still I don't know.

Dusk Raven

2016-01-18, 04:44 AM

I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the difference between PF and 3.5 and having not played Persona... I have been told that a psionic character with an eidolon like creation would cover Persona 3/4 fairly well but I'm not sure of the details on Summoners or Persona enough to do a good job.

All right, that's a conversion I can do on my own time, then.

As for the other I played Legend of Dragoon for ~2 hours once over a decade ago, but the basic concept I think I've got. How is XI Dragoon different from other iterations? Edit: Wiki indicates wyvern summoning? I mean warrior with a familiar like creature that they fuse with to get dragon powers is viable, you have to give the dragon alone some usefulness, probably non-combat utility in the form of flight, small size, and scouting, balance it assuming they will be in fused form during fights unless you throw on some limit to prevent that. Or possibly you take a cue from FFXI's Wyvern and make it where having them split while reducing your combat ability below a front line combatant's par gives you action economy advantages? Or else you limit the bond in some way (uses per day, recharge time, etc)

Well, the basic concept of the Drakkhen comes from a StarCraft custom map that emulated a Final Fantasy style of RPG. The Dragoon had a little minion that could fly around and attack, which I thought was the coolest thing ever. This is essentially me merging that with the main Dragoon concept. Essentially, in LoD, when you transform into a Dragoon your attack and defense are increased, you gain access to magic spells, and you get a rad pair of energy wings, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QINuNNINN7U) but all you can do during the transformation is attack or use spells, you can't use items, defend, or run away. You also can't voluntarily end it before its brief span.

In LoD, it's stated that humans enter a state of madness when in combat, a notion that I think makes perfect sense. Dragoons essentially draw on that madness to evoke the transformation. This doesn't turn them into raging berserkers - they're perfectly capable of coherent thought, and can even do things like cast healing spells, but they're so focused on fighting that they can't do anything that doesn't advance the combat in some fashion.

I feel all this can be more or less translated into D&D 3.5 (I'll convert it to Pathfinder on my own time). The core of it is essentially a martial warrior with a dragon companion (starting at Small size, perhaps, and capping at Large) who he can direct with a reasonable amount of control. The Drakkhen is weaker than the Dragoon, but does have flight as well as other harrying abilities. Unlike an animal companion or familiar, there are significant mechanism - and motivations - to prevent one from dying before the other, as they are even more bound together than a familiar is.

Fortunately, they have the transformation, which increases both their physical and magical capabilities. They gain access to a limited number of spells as well as limited flight and dragon breath (there's likely a parallel in the Draconic bloodline for the Bloodrager, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager) a Pathfinder hybrid between Barbarian and Sorcerer - that you may want to investigate for inspiration for one of tsj's requests). Alternatively, if you feel this far outweighs the Drakkhen's usefulness while seperate from the Dragoon, we might have it so that rather than granting the Dragoon the abilities of the Drakkhen, it simply heightens the Dragoon's existing physical and possibly magical power, trading versatility and actions for might.

However, due to the nature of the transformation (as well as the possible nature of the Drakkhen as a war-spirit), they can only perform combat-related actions of some sort, and only those which actively advance the fight. Whether this simply forbids certain actions like total defense, withdraw, or certain items, or actually requires them to attack/cast a spell/some other similar action once a turn, I leave up to you. Related to this, they can only transform when in combat, or perhaps in circumstances of obvious physical danger. Related to this and tying in with the idea that the Drakkhen should avoid dying at all costs, perhaps if the Drakkhen reaches 0 HP for any reason, it Dimension Door's over to the Dragoon and merges, although the resulting transformation is weaker.

Just some various ideas. Thoughts?

In the first game they were introduced in they were dragon riding knights who wielded excalibur and didn't jump... why they called the rest dragoons still I don't know.

Ah, that makes sense. Well, it did in the first usage, anyway.

Zaydos

2016-01-18, 09:32 AM

Well, the basic concept of the Drakkhen comes from a StarCraft custom map that emulated a Final Fantasy style of RPG. The Dragoon had a little minion that could fly around and attack, which I thought was the coolest thing ever. This is essentially me merging that with the main Dragoon concept. Essentially, in LoD, when you transform into a Dragoon your attack and defense are increased, you gain access to magic spells, and you get a rad pair of energy wings, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QINuNNINN7U) but all you can do during the transformation is attack or use spells, you can't use items, defend, or run away. You also can't voluntarily end it before its brief span.

In LoD, it's stated that humans enter a state of madness when in combat, a notion that I think makes perfect sense. Dragoons essentially draw on that madness to evoke the transformation. This doesn't turn them into raging berserkers - they're perfectly capable of coherent thought, and can even do things like cast healing spells, but they're so focused on fighting that they can't do anything that doesn't advance the combat in some fashion.

I feel all this can be more or less translated into D&D 3.5 (I'll convert it to Pathfinder on my own time). The core of it is essentially a martial warrior with a dragon companion (starting at Small size, perhaps, and capping at Large) who he can direct with a reasonable amount of control. The Drakkhen is weaker than the Dragoon, but does have flight as well as other harrying abilities. Unlike an animal companion or familiar, there are significant mechanism - and motivations - to prevent one from dying before the other, as they are even more bound together than a familiar is.

Fortunately, they have the transformation, which increases both their physical and magical capabilities. They gain access to a limited number of spells as well as limited flight and dragon breath (there's likely a parallel in the Draconic bloodline for the Bloodrager, (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager) a Pathfinder hybrid between Barbarian and Sorcerer - that you may want to investigate for inspiration for one of tsj's requests). Alternatively, if you feel this far outweighs the Drakkhen's usefulness while seperate from the Dragoon, we might have it so that rather than granting the Dragoon the abilities of the Drakkhen, it simply heightens the Dragoon's existing physical and possibly magical power, trading versatility and actions for might.

However, due to the nature of the transformation (as well as the possible nature of the Drakkhen as a war-spirit), they can only perform combat-related actions of some sort, and only those which actively advance the fight. Whether this simply forbids certain actions like total defense, withdraw, or certain items, or actually requires them to attack/cast a spell/some other similar action once a turn, I leave up to you. Related to this, they can only transform when in combat, or perhaps in circumstances of obvious physical danger. Related to this and tying in with the idea that the Drakkhen should avoid dying at all costs, perhaps if the Drakkhen reaches 0 HP for any reason, it Dimension Door's over to the Dragoon and merges, although the resulting transformation is weaker.

Just some various ideas. Thoughts?

Ok. So a sort of rage, doesn't stop spells, doesn't stop combat expertise, skills would need a glance over and see which like Bluff have combat uses and which like Diplomacy have no or a highly convoluted combat use (Sleight of Hand is my favorite to add combat utility to that they'd probably lose), decide whether it stops you from holding your action (which will require a brief glance at how LoD's defense command interacted with its combat system and if it was a basic turn based or one where actions each cost so much time; in the former defend = total defense, in the latter defend = hold action) and if so whether it stops you from readying one (so very useful in tactical combat). Make it force you to spend a standard action to attack or cast a spell each round if possible, and if not force you to spend your turn maneuvering into range to do so. Have to decide whether it forces you to seek more foes once they've all died.

For the drakhen it'd be time to read over the summoner again and look at PF Animal Companion and Eidolon progression; as a general rule I'm torn on what PF did with Animal Companions due to verisimilitude versus balance reasons but since this is a special creature just for the class regardless the biggest advantage of 3.5's is lost. Currently thinking you don't get combination till 2nd level and at that pint it's more Caster mode than anything else, possibly gives you flight that requires landing at end of action, possibly gives you a stronger breath weapon than your drakhen has (drakhen may or may not have breath weapon at first uncombined). Drakhen will probably end up a little better than Animal Companion because when unfuzed it's sounding like you'll not have any other class features except possibly ones related to keeping it alive (thinking some form of Lay on Drakhen, use limited teleport it to you, and wings of cover).

The big question is, assuming your drahken is with you, should fusing be your turn or not? Possibilities I see is: It is a free action on your part but costs your drahken's standard action, you can fuse then act; it is a standard action on your part but no action on the drahken's it can act and then you fuse and end your turn; it is a free action altogether but you only get actions both of you have remaining so you can either both act unfused and then combine or combine and then take a single fused action; it is a free action altogether and the drahken could act and then you could act fused; it is a standard action on both of your parts, once you fuse the meat of your turn is done. The other would be should you be able to fuse at-will in combat, have a delay time after each use (got to wait a minute), or have a daily limit (possibly with a delay time as well)?

Ah, that makes sense. Well, it did in the first usage, anyway.

In some of the other games they were originally dragonslaying knights who used leap to kill airborne dragons, and sometimes they're dragon emulating knights who get various breath weapons in addition to leap. Dragoons are not one of FF's most coherent jobs.

Segev

2016-01-18, 12:06 PM

khadgar567

2016-01-18, 12:59 PM

Droopy McCool

2016-01-18, 01:12 PM

This brings back childhood memories of finding Planescape and going "Elemental Plane of Force! Force Elementals!" Never actually made either (not that they'd be useful).

Question: I'm assuming Force Elemental should follow standard elemental HD/size progression, etc (2/4/8/16/21/24 small/med/large/huge), but how close to standard elemental power should it be? I mean Shadow/Taint/Storm differ noticeably from earth/fire/water/air and each other (Storm is typically only a little stronger, I forget how much of a difference the other two make).

HD/size as normal, yes. As far as power goes, I would prefer something along the lines of earth/fire/water/air elementals, if not just so I could try to shove one in a game earlier. Thanks.

McCool

Segev

2016-01-18, 03:00 PM

segev its really looks like you want a class that embodies you and as explanation you give us your corrupt ceo background as material to create it

Pff. I'm not a corrupt CEO. I'm not even a CEO ...yet...

I'm a necromancer. Of the minionmancer variety.

A longish while ago, I actually wrote a PrC for it, with an intended Wizard(Necromancer) base that essentially gave Undead Leadership a la the Thrallherd. I called it the Necromaster. Sadly, I have since lost the write-up.

Zaydos

2016-01-18, 03:18 PM

I'll throw an idea out there, mainly because I've tried in the past to come up with something but never was quite satisfied with what I could design:

A class centered around wealth.

Possible foci for this could include: buying/using items, buying/influencing people

As an alternative, a class centered around buying/finding items (magical and otherwise). Should be possible as EITHER a wealthy type who buys their adventuring power OR a daring explorer/archeologist type who finds their adventuring power. But generally an item-based class that is NOT centered around making their own.

I'll think about it, but don't expect much. Balancing anything based on wealth is nigh impossible because it is something that is so variable and IC get rich schemes happen. Though I actually have something that could be expanded into a full class... I'll think about it, but likely to go with the Dragoon and maybe the rogue idea first.

HD/size as normal, yes. As far as power goes, I would prefer something along the lines of earth/fire/water/air elementals, if not just so I could try to shove one in a game earlier. Thanks.

McCool

Got the raw mechanics done, might not be the most balanced. I'd have used one of the CR calculators but they don't give the same results for elementals as are their official CRs so. Small is probably the most problematic as even a weak 1/min ranged attack on a flyer and a 20% miss chance is good. So might be on the strong side for its CR as is, might increase it to Storm Elemental power by upping a few stats a bit.

Will give it, its own thread once I get to writing fluff but for now just posting the stats.

Force Elemental, Small
Small Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 2d8 (9 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 15, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4 plus 1d3 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +11, Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Medium
Medium Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +9, Listen +3, Spot +4
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 5-7 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Large
Large Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +4 Deflection), touch 17, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+12
Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +10 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +2
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +6, Listen +5, Spot +6
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Huge
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (152 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (-2 size, +6 Dex, +5 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+24
Attack: Slam +16 melee (2d6+4 plus 1d8 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +16 melee (2d6+4 plus 1d8 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +16, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 23, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +4, Listen +9, Spot +10
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 17-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: –

Force Elemental, Greater
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 21d8+126 (220 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 22 (-2 size, +7 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+28
Attack: Slam +20 melee (2d8+5 plus 1d10 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +20 melee (2d8+5 plus 1d10 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +19, Will +9
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 25, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +5, Listen +12, Spot +12
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 22-23 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Elder
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 24d8+144 (252 hp)
Initiative: +12
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (-2 size, +8 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+33
Attack: Slam +24 melee (2d8+7 plus 2d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +24 melee (2d8+7 plus 2d6 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +22, Will +10
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 27, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +6, Listen +13, Spot +14
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 25-48 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Subtype: Force is a new (typically) Elemental subtype. Force subtype creatures are connected to pure elemental force, sometimes simply made purely from it. A creature with the force subtype takes ½ damage from force effects. An Elemental with the Force subtype has good Fort and Ref saves.

Force Blast (Su): As a standard action a force elemental may release a blast of pure force in a cone. This force deals damage within the area, Reflex halves, and any creature that fails their Reflex save must make a Fortitude save or be pushed away from the force elemental as far as possible or until it is outside of the area of effect (furthest away creatures are pushed back first). The area, save DC, and damage of the blast for each size of Force Elemental is listed below; the save DC is Constitution based and beginning at Large the save DC includes +2 from Ability Focus. Once a force elemental uses its Force Blast it may not use it again for 1 minute.
CategoryDamageAreaSave DC
Small1d615-ft11
Medium2d615-ft14
Large4d630-ft20
Huge8d630-ft25
Greater11d660-ft28
Elder14d660-ft30

Force Immunity (Ex): Large and larger force elementals are immune to damage from force effects as they can harmlessly absorb the impacting energy. As a full round action they may pass through a solid force effect such as a Wall of Forceor Forcecage.

Living Silhouette (Ex): A force elemental is by its very nature transparent and hard to see. Attacks against a force elemental suffer a 20% miss chance as if it had concealment. In addition this partially invisible state aids it in hiding, a moving force elemental may hide without cover or concealment at a -10 penalty, and an immobile force elemental suffers no penalty to do so although if it moves to begin an attack (including a force blast) or use Manipulate Force it is considered to be moving. Finally a force elemental gains a +6 racial bonus to hide.

See Invisibility has no ability to mitigate this translucent nature, though a True Seeing spell causes the elemental’s outline to become more distinct negating the advantages granted by this ability.

Manipulate Force (Su): A force elemental may, as a standard action, move an object at a range. This functions as the sustained force use of telekinesis except as listed here, and cannot affect attended objects. The maximum weight a force elemental may affect is listed on the table below, as is the maximum range at which it may move an object, and the maximum speed.
CategoryWeightSpeed
Small20 lbs20 ft
[tr]Medium80 lbs20 ft
Large300 lbs40 ft
Huge1200 lbs40 ft
Greater2500 lbs60 ft
Elder5000 lbs60 ft

Pff. I'm not a corrupt CEO. I'm not even a CEO ...yet...

I'm a necromancer. Of the minionmancer variety.

A longish while ago, I actually wrote a PrC for it, with an intended Wizard(Necromancer) base that essentially gave Undead Leadership a la the Thrallherd. I called it the Necromaster. Sadly, I have since lost the write-up.

DN into Necroherder = Profit? I'd probably make one intentionally open to DN and Cleric entry, 11 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and Animate Dead as prereqs... maybe even make it possible to get in as a Warlock though that'd be a foolish thing to do... hmm...

Segev

2016-01-18, 03:23 PM

Droopy McCool

2016-01-18, 05:26 PM

Got the raw mechanics done, might not be the most balanced. I'd have used one of the CR calculators but they don't give the same results for elementals as are their official CRs so. Small is probably the most problematic as even a weak 1/min ranged attack on a flyer and a 20% miss chance is good. So might be on the strong side for its CR as is, might increase it to Storm Elemental power by upping a few stats a bit.

Will give it, its own thread once I get to writing fluff but for now just posting the stats.

Force Elemental, Small
Small Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 2d8 (9 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 15, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +3 melee (1d4 plus 1d3 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +11, Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Medium
Medium Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+3 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +6 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +9, Listen +3, Spot +4
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 5-7 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Large
Large Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +4 Deflection), touch 17, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+12
Attack: Slam +10 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +10 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +2
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 19, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +6, Listen +5, Spot +6
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Huge
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (152 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (-2 size, +6 Dex, +5 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+24
Attack: Slam +16 melee (2d6+4 plus 1d8 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +16 melee (2d6+4 plus 1d8 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +16, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 23, Con 20, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +4, Listen +9, Spot +10
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 17-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: –

Force Elemental, Greater
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 21d8+126 (220 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 22 (-2 size, +7 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+28
Attack: Slam +20 melee (2d8+5 plus 1d10 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +20 melee (2d8+5 plus 1d10 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +19, Will +9
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 25, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +5, Listen +12, Spot +12
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 22-23 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Elder
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 24d8+144 (252 hp)
Initiative: +12
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (-2 size, +8 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 19, FF 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+33
Attack: Slam +24 melee (2d8+7 plus 2d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +24 melee (2d8+7 plus 2d6 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +22, Will +10
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 27, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +6, Listen +13, Spot +14
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 25-48 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Subtype: Force is a new (typically) Elemental subtype. Force subtype creatures are connected to pure elemental force, sometimes simply made purely from it. A creature with the force subtype takes ½ damage from force effects. An Elemental with the Force subtype has good Fort and Ref saves.

Force Blast (Su): As a standard action a force elemental may release a blast of pure force in a cone. This force deals damage within the area, Reflex halves, and any creature that fails their Reflex save must make a Fortitude save or be pushed away from the force elemental as far as possible or until it is outside of the area of effect (furthest away creatures are pushed back first). The area, save DC, and damage of the blast for each size of Force Elemental is listed below; the save DC is Constitution based and beginning at Large the save DC includes +2 from Ability Focus. Once a force elemental uses its Force Blast it may not use it again for 1 minute.
CategoryDamageAreaSave DC
Small1d615-ft11
Medium2d615-ft14
Large4d630-ft20
Huge8d630-ft25
Greater11d660-ft28
Elder14d660-ft30

Force Immunity (Ex): Large and larger force elementals are immune to damage from force effects as they can harmlessly absorb the impacting energy. As a full round action they may pass through a solid force effect such as a Wall of Forceor Forcecage.

Living Silhouette (Ex): A force elemental is by its very nature transparent and hard to see. Attacks against a force elemental suffer a 20% miss chance as if it had concealment. In addition this partially invisible state aids it in hiding, a moving force elemental may hide without cover or concealment at a -10 penalty, and an immobile force elemental suffers no penalty to do so although if it moves to begin an attack (including a force blast) or use Manipulate Force it is considered to be moving. Finally a force elemental gains a +6 racial bonus to hide.

See Invisibility has no ability to mitigate this translucent nature, though a True Seeing spell causes the elemental’s outline to become more distinct negating the advantages granted by this ability.

Manipulate Force (Su): A force elemental may, as a standard action, move an object at a range. This functions as the sustained force use of telekinesis except as listed here, and cannot affect attended objects. The maximum weight a force elemental may affect is listed on the table below, as is the maximum range at which it may move an object, and the maximum speed.
CategoryWeightSpeed
Small20 lbs20 ft
[tr]Medium80 lbs20 ft
Large300 lbs40 ft
Huge1200 lbs40 ft
Greater2500 lbs60 ft
Elder5000 lbs60 ft

This looks excellent! Very well done my friend. And I agree, the power level could be increased and require a higher CR for balance's sake. I'm looking forward to the rest, thanks a bunch.

McCool

Zaydos

2016-01-18, 08:06 PM

IIRC, I had it open to anybody who could cast Animate Dead, and had a special caveat to let Wizard(Necromancers) bypass that requirement because I wanted them to be able to enter at level 6.

It gave a Thrallherd-like advancement for undead minions, and had abilities that let the necromaster start to see through his minions' eyes and even cast spells through them. Though that had some sharp limitations on the level of spell and how the necromaster could access them.

Something may come of this, probably replacing cohort with a weaker elite undead that scales with character level instead of "build you 1 level lower!" Partially because I don't like Leadership and cohorts.

This looks excellent! Very well done my friend. And I agree, the power level could be increased and require a higher CR for balance's sake. I'm looking forward to the rest, thanks a bunch.

McCool

Upped Dex and Str (and Con on Small), shortened recharge for force blast, and increased AC at some places, swapped a feat for Epic Will starting at Greater, and upped the CR by 1 across the board. I'll have to refer to MMIII for summoning spells.

Force Elemental, Small
Small Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d4 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d4 plus 1d3 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Medium
Medium Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 Deflection), touch 18, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +10, Listen +3, Spot +4
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 5-7 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Large
Large Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (-1 size, +6 Dex, +5 Deflection), touch 20, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+13
Attack: Slam +11 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +11 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +11, Will +2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 23, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +5, Spot +6
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Huge
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 16d8+91 (168 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (-2 size, +7 Dex, +6 Deflection), touch 21, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+25
Attack: Slam +17 melee (2d6+5 plus 1d8 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +17 melee (2d6+5 plus 1d8 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +5
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 25, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +4, Listen +9, Spot +10
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 17-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: –

Force Elemental, Greater
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 21d8+126 (220 hp)
Initiative: +13
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (-2 size, +9 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 24, FF 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+29
Attack: Slam +22 melee (2d8+6 plus 1d10 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +22 melee (2d8+6 plus 1d10 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +21, Will +11
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 29, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +7, Listen +12, Spot +12
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Epic WillE, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 22-23 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Elder
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 24d8+144 (252 hp)
Initiative: +14
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 26 (-2 size, +10 Dex, +8 Deflection), touch 26, FF 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+34
Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +26 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d6 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +24, Will +13
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 31, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +13, Spot +14
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Epic WillE, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 12
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 25-48 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Subtype: Force is a new (typically) Elemental subtype. Force subtype creatures are connected to pure elemental force, sometimes simply made purely from it. A creature with the force subtype takes ½ damage from force effects. An Elemental with the Force subtype has good Fort and Ref saves.

Force Blast (Su): As a standard action a force elemental may release a blast of pure force in a cone. This force deals damage within the area, Reflex halves, and any creature that fails their Reflex save must make a Fortitude save or be pushed away from the force elemental as far as possible or until it is outside of the area of effect (furthest away creatures are pushed back first). The area, save DC, and damage of the blast for each size of Force Elemental is listed below; the save DC is Constitution based and beginning at Large the save DC includes +2 from Ability Focus. Once a force elemental uses its Force Blast it may not use it again for 1d4+1 rounds.
CategoryDamageAreaSave DC
Small1d815-ft12
Medium2d815-ft14
Large4d830-ft20
Huge8d830-ft26
Greater11d860-ft28
Elder14d860-ft30

Force Immunity (Ex): Large and larger force elementals are immune to damage from force effects as they can harmlessly absorb the impacting energy. As a full round action they may pass through a solid force effect such as a Wall of Forceor Forcecage.

Living Silhouette (Ex): A force elemental is by its very nature transparent and hard to see. Attacks against a force elemental suffer a 20% miss chance as if it had concealment. In addition this partially invisible state aids it in hiding, a moving force elemental may hide without cover or concealment at a -10 penalty, and an immobile force elemental suffers no penalty to do so although if it moves to begin an attack (including a force blast) or use Manipulate Force it is considered to be moving. Finally a force elemental gains a +6 racial bonus to hide.

See Invisibility has no ability to mitigate this translucent nature, though a True Seeing spell causes the elemental’s outline to become more distinct negating the advantages granted by this ability.

Manipulate Force (Su): A force elemental may, as a standard action, move an object at a range. This functions as the sustained force use of telekinesis except as listed here, and cannot affect attended objects. The maximum weight a force elemental may affect is listed on the table below, as is the maximum range at which it may move an object, and the maximum speed.
CategoryWeightSpeed
Small20 lbs20 ft
Medium80 lbs20 ft
Large300 lbs40 ft
Huge1200 lbs40 ft
Greater2500 lbs60 ft
Elder5000 lbs60 ft

Droopy McCool

2016-01-18, 09:14 PM

Upped Dex and Str (and Con on Small), shortened recharge for force blast, and increased AC at some places, swapped a feat for Epic Will starting at Greater, and upped the CR by 1 across the board. I'll have to refer to MMIII for summoning spells.

Force Elemental, Small
Small Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-3
Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d4 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d4 plus 1d3 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +12, Listen +2, Spot +3
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Medium
Medium Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 Deflection), touch 18, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette,
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +10, Listen +3, Spot +4
Feats: Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 5-7 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Large
Large Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (-1 size, +6 Dex, +5 Deflection), touch 20, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+13
Attack: Slam +11 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +11 melee (1d8+2 plus 1d6 force)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +11, Will +2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 23, Con 18, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +5, Spot +6
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 9-15 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Huge
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 16d8+91 (168 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (-2 size, +7 Dex, +6 Deflection), touch 21, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+25
Attack: Slam +17 melee (2d6+5 plus 1d8 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +17 melee (2d6+5 plus 1d8 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +5
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 25, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +4, Listen +9, Spot +10
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 17-20 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: –

Force Elemental, Greater
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 21d8+126 (220 hp)
Initiative: +13
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 24 (-2 size, +9 Dex, +7 Deflection), touch 24, FF 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+29
Attack: Slam +22 melee (2d8+6 plus 1d10 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +22 melee (2d8+6 plus 1d10 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +21, Will +11
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 29, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +7, Listen +12, Spot +12
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Epic WillE, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 22-23 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Elemental, Elder
Huge Elemental (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 24d8+144 (252 hp)
Initiative: +14
Speed: Fly 60 ft (perfect) (12 squares)
Armor Class: 26 (-2 size, +10 Dex, +8 Deflection), touch 26, FF 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+34
Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d6 force)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +26 melee (2d8+8 plus 2d6 force)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Force Blast, Manipulate Force
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/-, Darkvision 60 ft, Elemental Traits, Force Immunity, Force Subtype traits, Living Silhouette
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +24, Will +13
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 31, Con 22, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11.
Skills: Hide +8, Listen +13, Spot +14
Feats: Ability Focus (Force Blast), Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Epic WillE, Flyby Attack, Hold the LineXPH, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon FinesseB
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 12
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 25-48 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Force Subtype: Force is a new (typically) Elemental subtype. Force subtype creatures are connected to pure elemental force, sometimes simply made purely from it. A creature with the force subtype takes ½ damage from force effects. An Elemental with the Force subtype has good Fort and Ref saves.

Force Blast (Su): As a standard action a force elemental may release a blast of pure force in a cone. This force deals damage within the area, Reflex halves, and any creature that fails their Reflex save must make a Fortitude save or be pushed away from the force elemental as far as possible or until it is outside of the area of effect (furthest away creatures are pushed back first). The area, save DC, and damage of the blast for each size of Force Elemental is listed below; the save DC is Constitution based and beginning at Large the save DC includes +2 from Ability Focus. Once a force elemental uses its Force Blast it may not use it again for 1d4+1 rounds.
CategoryDamageAreaSave DC
Small1d815-ft12
Medium2d815-ft14
Large4d830-ft20
Huge8d830-ft26
Greater11d860-ft28
Elder14d860-ft30

Force Immunity (Ex): Large and larger force elementals are immune to damage from force effects as they can harmlessly absorb the impacting energy. As a full round action they may pass through a solid force effect such as a Wall of Forceor Forcecage.

Living Silhouette (Ex): A force elemental is by its very nature transparent and hard to see. Attacks against a force elemental suffer a 20% miss chance as if it had concealment. In addition this partially invisible state aids it in hiding, a moving force elemental may hide without cover or concealment at a -10 penalty, and an immobile force elemental suffers no penalty to do so although if it moves to begin an attack (including a force blast) or use Manipulate Force it is considered to be moving. Finally a force elemental gains a +6 racial bonus to hide.

See Invisibility has no ability to mitigate this translucent nature, though a True Seeing spell causes the elemental’s outline to become more distinct negating the advantages granted by this ability.

Manipulate Force (Su): A force elemental may, as a standard action, move an object at a range. This functions as the sustained force use of telekinesis except as listed here, and cannot affect attended objects. The maximum weight a force elemental may affect is listed on the table below, as is the maximum range at which it may move an object, and the maximum speed.
CategoryWeightSpeed
Small20 lbs20 ft
Medium80 lbs20 ft
Large300 lbs40 ft
Huge1200 lbs40 ft
Greater2500 lbs60 ft
Elder5000 lbs60 ft

Looks real good. Like I said, can't wait to see the fluff. Nice work, and quick too.

McCool

tsj

2016-01-19, 01:36 AM

@zaydos:
High tier 3 will be fine

The blaster/sniper/archer class:
I was thinking in terms of an armoured mage that can use ranged weapons to deliver touch spells and that can
have enough utility arcane spells to be a high tier 3 while also being able to blast enemies directly with fireball etc

Zaydos

2016-01-19, 02:33 AM

khadgar567

2016-01-19, 02:42 AM

one on necessary request but can you made harem herder( trallherd focuses on collecting his harem)
thanks segev for idea of this class may the dark side be with you mate

tsj

2016-01-19, 04:02 AM

Ok. With the Rogue/Shapeshifter/Warlock thing were invocations intended mainly as utility abilities to help with their use of wild shape style shapeshifting, or were they supposed to use Invocations to shapeshift?

invocations are intended for utility purposes only,
the wild shape is intended to be like the druid ability :)

Ancalidormis

2016-01-19, 04:43 AM

Could you perhaps build a 5 level prestige class designed for an intelligent undead creature?

CinuzIta

2016-01-19, 07:59 AM

Maybe something like a bomber or a grenadier prc?

Droopy McCool

2016-01-19, 09:42 AM

Fluff might be a bit, want to make a few more critters to flesh out the ecology of the plane.

Wait a second, are you saying you're making MORE creatures AND a plane?

McCool

Zaydos

2016-01-19, 01:26 PM

one on necessary request but can you made harem herder( trallherd focuses on collecting his harem)
thanks segev for idea of this class may the dark side be with you mate

A harem herder would not even be a refluff of Thrallherd, that'd just be how you play it off and a little bit of rp.

invocations are intended for utility purposes only,
the wild shape is intended to be like the druid ability :)

Noting as read, and oh yeah Bar/Sorc how much should it just be raw "Barb with spells" (like PF's Bloodrager) and how much do you mean character with rage + spells (my own mind went to a character who channels a spirit into them to rage and gain spellcasting meaning that their spellcasting is limited out of rage... probably going with PF style rage rounds/day instead of uses per day so you could divvy it up to cast spells better).

Also quick mock up of shapeshifter-invoker-rogue. Two archetypes, Warrior and Thief. Warrior ought to be comparable, without, invocations to MoMF WS Ranger possibly coming out a little behind depending upon level (at 8th its AC and HP vs BAB which tends to go to BAB, at 11th its the above plus Ex abilities vs Huge and ability to shift mid combat more easily, at 12th they gain Fast Healing and the ability to heal ability damage which helps, but it's not till 16th they start to pull ahead with just better shape shifting and even then it's questionable and might still be in MoMF WS Ranger's favor). As MoMF WS Ranger is solidly tier 3 this isn't really a bad thing, especially with the fact that this is sans Invocations and their power level will go up a bit when Invocations are added.

Chassis:
Average BAB
All Good saves or Ranger?
HD: d6 or d10
Skills: 4 or 6 + Int.
By Level up:
Warrior or Thief: Lv 1 choose path. If Warrior is chosen HD becomes d10/level, medium armor proficiency (igore ASF for medium armor and shields), shield proficiency, and 1 martial weapon proficiency are gained, if thief is chosen skill points become 6 + Int, skills are added to class skill list.
Thousand Faces: 1st level. Druid power.
Least Invocation (2 invocs per grade)
Shifter’s Empathy: 2nd level gain Wild Empathy, use with unintelligent undead, vermin, ooze, and constructs if you have the proper wild shapes, you can convince unintelligent undead/constructs to ignore you against direct orders with a DC 20 check, increasing to DC 25 to ignore you and up to 5 other creatures, 30 to get them to wholly ignore the orders. DC 25 to give them orders that don’t contradict those already given, to contradict orders requires 2 checks DC 30 and then 25. No penalty for rushed check if you can assume forms of that creature type. May use at no penalty on any Int 4 or less creature of a type you can assume.
Lesser Wild Shape: 3rd level 1/day, Small and medium animals, may not have movement modes you lack, 10 minute/class level duration.
2nd Invocation (4th).
Bonus Fighter feat (Warrior) or Sneak Attack +1d6 (thief)
Wild Shape (Sm/Med): 5th level, 2nd daily use, Shifter’s Tongue (Talk while Wild Shaped)
3rd Invocation (6th), Wild Shape (Humanoid and Giant) (6th)
Wild Shape 3/day and Large (7th)
Armored Shift (retain armor enchantments and ½ base armor bonus when wild shaped, if you choose to get the armor bonus also retain max Dex at 2 higher and ACP at 1 less and ASF if Heavy or heavier) or Camouflage when in the form of an animal, plant, or magical beast native to environment, and +1d6 sneak attack. (8th), 4th Invocation (8th).
Wild Shape (Monstrous Humanoid and Vermin) (9th).
Wild Shape 4/day and Tiny (10th)
Wild Shape (Ex abilities and Plant) and 5th Invocation (11th)
Fast Healing 5 and fast physical ability score healing 1 or ??? and Sneak Attack +1d6 (12th), and Wild Shape (Magical Beasts)
Wild Shape (Dragon and 5/day) (13th), Limited Su Wild Shape (gain Breath Weapons, gain DR and SR) (13th)
Wild Shape (Huge and Ooze or Aberration) (14th) and 6th Invocation (14th)
Wild Shape (Elemental, Fey, or Outsider) (15th)
Gargantuan Wild Shape and Bonus Feat or Diminutive Wild Shape and Sneak Attack +1d6 and 7th Invocation (16th) Wild Shape 6/day.
Wild Shape (Undead or Construct) (16th)
Supernatural Wild Shape (duration reduces to rounds/level, Shapechange banned variant, pick 1 creature + 1/level beyond 17th) (17th)
Reflexive Wild Shape (Immediate Action wild shape) (18th).
??? Wild Shape 7/day, 8th Invocation. 19th.
??? or ??? and +1d6 Sneak Attack, All Wild Shapes (gain options you didn’t choose previously and incorporeal undead)

Could you perhaps build a 5 level prestige class designed for an intelligent undead creature?

Anything more specific you're looking for? My mind goes to becoming X-Tra Undead with stuff like a focus on energy drain and eventually Su death touch where you literally suck their life force into the ravenous void within you.

Also wanted to make sure you weren't intending a PrC to make something into an intelligent undead.

Maybe something like a bomber or a grenadier prc?

Read and being contemplated.

Wait a second, are you saying you're making MORE creatures AND a plane?

McCool

I am an old fanboy of Monte Cook's work on 2e Planescape. A notable thing is that each of the *elemental planes except vacuum had a mephit (this explains odd mephits like dust and salt which still exist in 3.5), and I have an idea for a type of (borderline) epic genie with a racial immunity to calling that sort of sees themselves as the natural kings of all genie kind and have the ability to intervene in calling spells to summon genies (but only when those are abused), also an idea for a swarm of sort of I guess jellyfish like things that swim between the planes of force.

Force Mephit
Small Outsider (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares), fly 50 ft (good)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-1
Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d3 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +7 melee (1d3 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Mephit
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/magic, Darkvision 60 ft, Fast Healing 2, Force Subtype Traits.
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15.
Skills: Bluff +8, Escape Artist +8, Hide +12, Diplomacy +4, Disguise +2 (+4), Intimidate +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6, Use Rope +2 (+4 with bindings).
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary (1), gang (2–4 mephits of mixed types), or mob (5–12 mephits of mixed types)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Small), 7-9 (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)

Breath Weapon (Su): 15-ft cone of pure force, damage 1d6, Reflex DC 13 half. Creatures that fail their save are also pushed 5 ft away from the mephit. The DC is Constitution based and includes a +1 racial bonus.

Spell-like Abilities: 1/hour a force mephit can gather force in light distorting planes duplicating a Blur spell (CL 3rd), and 1/day a force mephit can gather it into several unerring darts of energy replicating a Magic Missile (CL 6th).

Fast Healing (Ex): A force mephit heals only in the presence of free standing Force, if within 10 ft of an active force effect, or on the pseudoelemental plane of force, or another area with naturally occurring Force.

Droopy McCool

2016-01-19, 06:44 PM

I am an old fanboy of Monte Cook's work on 2e Planescape. A notable thing is that each of the *elemental planes except vacuum had a mephit (this explains odd mephits like dust and salt which still exist in 3.5), and I have an idea for a type of (borderline) epic genie with a racial immunity to calling that sort of sees themselves as the natural kings of all genie kind and have the ability to intervene in calling spells to summon genies (but only when those are abused), also an idea for a swarm of sort of I guess jellyfish like things that swim between the planes of force.

Force Mephit
Small Outsider (Force, Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares), fly 50 ft (good)
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 Deflection), touch 16, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-1
Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d3 plus 1d4 force)
Full Attack: 2 Claws +7 melee (1d3 plus 1d4 force)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-like Abilities, Summon Mephit
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/magic, Darkvision 60 ft, Fast Healing 2, Force Subtype Traits.
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 15.
Skills: Bluff +8, Escape Artist +8, Hide +12, Diplomacy +4, Disguise +2 (+4), Intimidate +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6, Use Rope +2 (+4 with bindings).
Feats: Flyby Attack, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Pseudoelemental Plane of Force
Organization: Solitary (1), gang (2–4 mephits of mixed types), or mob (5–12 mephits of mixed types)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard.
Alignment: Usually Neutral.
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Small), 7-9 (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)

Breath Weapon (Su): 15-ft cone of pure force, damage 1d6, Reflex DC 13 half. Creatures that fail their save are also pushed 5 ft away from the mephit. The DC is Constitution based and includes a +1 racial bonus.

Spell-like Abilities: 1/hour a force mephit can gather force in light distorting planes duplicating a Blur spell (CL 3rd), and 1/day a force mephit can gather it into several unerring darts of energy replicating a Magic Missile (CL 6th).

Fast Healing (Ex): A force mephit heals only in the presence of free standing Force, if within 10 ft of an active force effect, or on the pseudoelemental plane of force, or another area with naturally occurring Force.

I have to say, you're going much deeper than I expected, but now you've got me excited like Christmas is coming all over again!

I can see it now:
The Complete Guide to the Elemental Plane of Force: the effects, residents, and you.

Ancalidormis

2016-01-19, 11:22 PM

Anything more specific you're looking for? My mind goes to becoming X-Tra Undead with stuff like a focus on energy drain and eventually Su death touch where you literally suck their life force into the ravenous void within you.

Also wanted to make sure you weren't intending a PrC to make something into an intelligent undead.

The PrC should require you to be an intelligent Undead before entry into the PrC.

If anything, it should shy away from summoning, creating, or animating undead. Otherwise, you have free reign.

tsj

2016-01-20, 02:38 PM

Noting as read, and oh yeah Bar/Sorc how much should it just be raw "Barb with spells" (like PF's Bloodrager) and how much do you mean character with rage + spells (my own mind went to a character who channels a spirit into them to rage and gain spellcasting meaning that their spellcasting is limited out of rage... probably going with PF style rage rounds/day instead of uses per day so you could divvy it up to cast spells better).

Also quick mock up of shapeshifter-invoker-rogue. Two archetypes, Warrior and Thief.

The spell casting and the rage should be linked in some way for sure :) The channelling of a spirit is an interesting option.

I like the concept of choosing a path for the shapeshifter-invoker-rogue guy:)

Zaydos

2016-01-20, 05:12 PM

The spell casting and the rage should be linked in some way for sure :) The channelling of a spirit is an interesting option.

I like the concept of choosing a path for the shapeshifter-invoker-rogue guy:)

Speaking of which the shapeshifter-invoker maybe rogue (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475783-Form-Shifter-(3-5-Base-Class-Invocations-Wild-Shape)) guy now has a thread. One Two All of the three paths is now playable to 20th the other two one only 19th because they lack a capstone. The meat of the dish is mostly still not done, however, as I have need to formated and fully stated 8.75 invocations a grade except Dark (it's the median and the mode and is higher than the mean of 7.5 so I like it).

Zaydos

2016-01-22, 06:14 PM

some ideers that might be fun and perhaps also useful:

a combination of a sorceror and a barbarian ("gish" type class) as a solid tier 3

Fury Medium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475970-Fury-Medium-%283-5-Base-Class-Request%29) is complete.

I don't know much about the different planes, and don't know if you were open to making a new one, but I was intrigued by the conversation in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474958-Natural-Force) thread on naturally occurring [Force]. If it is possible, I would like to request these:

Plane: Plane of Force
Creature: Force Elemental

Both, one, or neither are perfectly acceptable. :smallsmile:
Please and thank you.

McCool

The Pseudoelemental Plane of Force (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476052-The-Pseudoelemental-Plane-of-Force&p=20332757#post20332757) is posted. Needs more information on sites, but it is as complete as any 3.0 plane, or a quasielemental plane. Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476056-Monsters-of-Force) apparently include an LA 0 race of airship vaguely viking inspired hunter/gatherers/want to be farmers.

tsj

2016-01-23, 02:31 AM

@zaydos: thanks for creating the fury medium & the shapeshift-invoker classes :)

Zaydos

2016-01-23, 03:27 AM

Could you perhaps build a 5 level prestige class designed for an intelligent undead creature?

Wasn't completely sure what you wanted so have a vaguely fluffed (because it's only half fluffed and needs the other half) Undead death cultist-monk (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476091-Proselyte-of-Death-(3-5-Undead-PrC)).

Maybe something like a bomber or a grenadier prc?

I'll throw an idea out there, mainly because I've tried in the past to come up with something but never was quite satisfied with what I could design:

A class centered around wealth.

Possible foci for this could include: buying/using items, buying/influencing people

As an alternative, a class centered around buying/finding items (magical and otherwise). Should be possible as EITHER a wealthy type who buys their adventuring power OR a daring explorer/archeologist type who finds their adventuring power. But generally an item-based class that is NOT centered around making their own.

Just a note neither of these have been forgotten.

@zaydos: thanks for creating the fury medium & the shapeshift-invoker classes :)

You're welcome. And thanks for saying thanks, it goes a long way. I mean it helps prevent me from triple posting :smallwink:

In full seriousness it does mean a lot, and also I really, really like the fact that it means I don't have to triple post.

CinuzIta

2016-01-23, 05:11 AM

Don't worry, take your time!;)

Just a little note on the class: I'd like the bomber/grenadier to be as mundane as possible if it isn't much of a trouble:)

Zaydos

2016-01-23, 11:43 AM

Don't worry, take your time!;)

Just a little note on the class: I'd like the bomber/grenadier to be as mundane as possible if it isn't much of a trouble:)

My current thoughts had been some abilities to make alchemical items on the spot (still paying raw material costs largely to stop you from just handing them out to all your allies for free), and the ability to make 'bombs' by taking an alchemical mixture and adding a little magic to give them a grenade that didn't cost gold to use. For a more mundane approach I... look for Molotov cocktail rules and go with a sort of sneak attack like ability to make it where they're worth using for you, but there's a reason you don't just hand them out to the whole party.

CinuzIta

2016-01-23, 03:19 PM

My current thoughts had been some abilities to make alchemical items on the spot (still paying raw material costs largely to stop you from just handing them out to all your allies for free), and the ability to make 'bombs' by taking an alchemical mixture and adding a little magic to give them a grenade that didn't cost gold to use. For a more mundane approach I... look for Molotov cocktail rules and go with a sort of sneak attack like ability to make it where they're worth using for you, but there's a reason you don't just hand them out to the whole party.

Never mind the molotov cocktails, i like the way you were going:)

Caruff

2016-01-23, 04:19 PM

I would like to request either a base class OR PrC which is essentially a theurge between the binder and the warlock (I've seen this done several times, but never very well). If it is a base class, then it can be very loosely based on the two parent classes. I guess what I want is a class that binds vestiges, then maybe those vestiges can grant them different invocations? If you think a PrC is better/easier, then it can be be really any combination of binder and warlock, the vestiges don't necessarily have to grant the invocations. Also, I'm not sure how, but perhaps the vestige that is currently bound grants different sorts of Eldritch Blast type abilities? The more I think about it, the more complex it seems, but I'd love to see a class like this in action, and if you built it I guarantee I'll playtest it ASAP! :smallsmile:

Zaydos

2016-01-23, 07:44 PM

I'll throw an idea out there, mainly because I've tried in the past to come up with something but never was quite satisfied with what I could design:

A class centered around wealth.

Possible foci for this could include: buying/using items, buying/influencing people

As an alternative, a class centered around buying/finding items (magical and otherwise). Should be possible as EITHER a wealthy type who buys their adventuring power OR a daring explorer/archeologist type who finds their adventuring power. But generally an item-based class that is NOT centered around making their own.

I've got a mockup of a "Merchant" class, might have too many weird Su abilities, and I'm not sure that it isn't just too silly, let me know what you think of the approach. I may have mostly just stolen features from other classes thus far and it needs some more at higher levels.

Skills: 6 + Int
HD: d6.
BAB: Medium
Saves: Good Will.
Armor/Weapons: Heavy/Simple.

Class Features:

1st: Gil Toss (Su): As a standard action you can toss coinage transmuting them into damaging energy. You deal Xd8 damage where X is a number of your choice up to 2 times your level with a ranged touch attack. However you must pay 10*(X^2) gold hit or miss.
Goldwright (Su): 1/day as a swift action transmute currency into an item for 3 + Cha modifier. Max cost of item based on level (Level squared x 500 GP), extra daily use every 5th level.
2nd:
Revenue: A Merchant has sources of revenue other than those obtained through being a murderous hobo an adventurer. Beginning at 2nd level a Merchant needs never pay out of pocket for ordinary taxes or maintenance of a house (this ability does not extend to castles) and is assumed to have an income sufficient to pay for basic meals and lodgings for themselves in any civilized area without dipping into their personal adventuring funds. In addition this ability provides basic living expenses for any followers the Merchant gains through the Retainers class feature and other Merchant class features that grant followers (but not any extra gear).
White Knight (Ex): When you are at less than 25% hp and would receive damage any adjacent ally may choose to take that damage for you.
3rd:
Merchant: You may sell goods for 60% their market price.
Ear to the Ground: A Merchant takes pains to always be abreast of any rumors or information circulating within their region. To represent this breadth of knowledge, rumors, and secrets, 1/day per Merchant level you may make a Gather Information check as a free action, and gain information as if you had made a check of that DC (paying all normal costs) to obtain information in every place that you spent at least 1 hour of downtime within the last week.
4th:
Sorcery of Gold (Sp): By spending an amount of time equal to its casting time you may immediately use any spell with a spell level less than indicated on the table above (1 level lower than the highest level spell known of a sorcerer of the same level) as a spell-like ability but you must pay gold equal to twice the cost of a scroll of that spell.
5th:
Generous Banker (Su): Whenever you put money into a bag of holding or other non-dimensional space you may have it teleport into any other bag of holding or similar container you are familiar with.
6th:
Hedge Risk (Su): As an immediate action you convert damage to your body into damage to that highest of all things your finances. For 1 round whenever you would take damage instead lose 3 GP worth of coins or trade goods carried upon your person per hp which would be loss. If you have no capital of this sort on you then you lose hit points as normal.
Barter (Ex): You may give a creature an amount of goods to gain a circumstance bonus to a diplomacy check dealing with it. To gain a bonus you must give goods worth [bonus squared]*10 GP (i.e. +1 costs 10 GP, +5 costs 250 GP, +12 costs 1440, +20 costs 4000) and this bonus is limited to no more than your class level.
7th:
Resale Adept: You may sell goods for 70% their market price.
Improved White Knight: 50% or less health.
Greater Revenue: A Merchant’s holdings increase as his fame and power spread. Beginning at 7th level a Merchant’s Revenue now provides basic gear (non-Mw, non-magical gear no single item of which costs more than 200 GP) to his followers gained through class features as well as providing him with the regular maintenance costs and taxes of a mansion or estate, and the cost of fine meals and lodgings while in civilized regions. Finally during any week in which the Merchant spends at least 3 days within civilized regions they may make a Profession (Merchant) check and gain gold equal to half their result (rounded down) or if they dedicate time directly to it for a week of dedicated work they instead gain gold equal to the result.
8th:
Pay to Play (Su): As a standard action you may pay 100 GP to double a creature’s threat range for 1 minute, this does not stack with Keen or Improved Critical unless you pay 1000 GP.
9th:
Astral Shop (Su): As a full round action you may send your spirit back to the last shop you visited. Your body remains in place and is considered helpless. You may exchange goods in this shop in legitimate transactions but no other objects can be lost or gained and you may not affect the place in any other material ways. You may return to your body as a move action or by leaving the shop.
10th:
Barter Fate (Su): You may barter with fate to gain a circumstance bonus to any skill check or saving throw. This costs the same amount for a bonus as Barter, or twice that for a saving throw, but the gold simply ceases to be.
11th:
Resale Expert: You may sell goods for 80% their market price.
Mystic Protector: White Knight may now be used to suffer any effect you would receive.
12th:
Greater White Knight: 75% or less health.
Overflowing Coffers: A Merchant’s holdings grow truly vast, granting them an ever increasing flow of wealth. You no longer must ever pay normal maintenance or taxes on any lands and holdings out of pocket, it is assumed that your various mercantile ventures make enough money to recoup the expenses of your holdings and if you have the Landlord feat you gain an additional 25% gold usable within the limitations of the Landlord feat unlike the feat this bonus wealth does not match gold you spend on a fortress. Your followers gained from this class chosen from List II or higher gain 1000 GP worth of gear per level they have without you needing to pay to provide it. In addition you need not pay for even luxurious food or lodging out of pocket. Finally when you make a Profession (Merchant) check to gain money as described in the Greater Revenue ability you gain gold equal to twice the Profession check instead of ½, or 3 times if you spend the week in dedicated work.
13th:
Gold Action (Su): As a standard action you may convert gold into pure elan vitalizing an ally into action. Select one ally within your aura and then sacrifice an amount of carried coinage or trade goods. If you sacrifice 100 GP of goods that ally may immediately take a swift action. By sacrificing 400 GP of goods they may take a standard action. 1,600 GP obtains a full-round action or a standard and move action (no swift) and may be worth using on yourself in extreme circumstances. 16,000 GP grants the ally two full-round actions (or 2 standard and 2 move) and 1 swift action to be used immediately.
Greater Astral Shop (Su): When you use this ability you may go to any shop you have ever visited instead of only the last one.
14th:
Allies’ Risk (Su): May use hedge risk for an ally.
15th:
Resale Master (Ex): You may sell goods for 90% their market price.
16th:
Pay their Way (Su): May use Barter Fate as an immediate action to grant an ally a bonus to a roll.
Money Bags (Su): You can store items in any bag as if it were a bag of holding. You may store any amount of goods in a bag this way, and goods this way are only accessible by creatures with this ability. Goods must still be able to fit through the opening of the bag to be stored this way.
17th:
Coffers of the Realm: A Merchant’s wealth is unrivaled except by the most powerful kings and merchants. If you have the Landlord feat you gain an additional 75% gold usable within the limitations of the Landlord feat unlike the feat this bonus wealth does not match gold you spend on a fortress (coupled with Overflowing Coffers this doubles the gold provided by that feat). Your followers gained from this class chosen from List II or higher gain 2000 GP worth of gear per level they have without you needing to pay to provide it. In addition you need not pay for even extravagant food or lodging for yourself out of pocket and luxurious food and lodgings for your Charisma modifier in companions. Finally when you make a Profession (Merchant) check to gain money as described in the Greater Revenue ability you gain gold equal to ten times the Profession check instead of ½ or 15 times if you spend the week in dedicated work.
True White Knight: White Knight functions at any hp.
18th:
Astral Shopping Spree (Su): When you use Astral Shop as long as you do nothing other than shop inside the shop you traveled to you may return to your body as if no time had passed, merely spending a full round action to do your shopping.
19th:
Resale Grandmaster: You may sell goods for their market price.
20th:
Greater Sorcery of Gold (Sp): 10 times per day you need only pay the cost of a scroll instead of twice that when using Sorcery of Gold.

I would like to request either a base class OR PrC which is essentially a theurge between the binder and the warlock (I've seen this done several times, but never very well). If it is a base class, then it can be very loosely based on the two parent classes. I guess what I want is a class that binds vestiges, then maybe those vestiges can grant them different invocations? If you think a PrC is better/easier, then it can be be really any combination of binder and warlock, the vestiges don't necessarily have to grant the invocations. Also, I'm not sure how, but perhaps the vestige that is currently bound grants different sorts of Eldritch Blast type abilities? The more I think about it, the more complex it seems, but I'd love to see a class like this in action, and if you built it I guarantee I'll playtest it ASAP! :smallsmile:

With a Base Class you'd have two options:

1) Strip down the chassis (Poor BAB, d4/6 HD, and poor Fort), remove Pact Augmentation, Soul Shielding, and Bonus Feats, give them invocations and hope it equals out, maybe a little power.

2) Make it just an ACF replacing Pact Augmentation and Bonus Feats with (fewer) Invocations.

A little slap dash version of either would probably take an hour if you ignore non-ToM vestiges, just figure out how many invocations with 1 (2 gets invocations = vestiges) and match each vestige to an invocation. #1 would need some extra time to fluff compared to #2, I mean it needs a fundamental change in the fluff than a mere ACF does.

Both run into the twin problems of doing anything with vestiges and classes other than binder: 1) Improved Binding (as a homebrewer I hate that feat with a passion because it makes it to where you in effect have to make it so that vestiges always get powers 2 level later than they are relevant) meaning that slowing down Vestige level progression is awkward at best. 2) Binder's weird additional vestige progression. If they got their 2nd at 4th-6th level it'd be easy to fiddle with that progression to work it out so that things roughly equaled out. Invocations should be definitely possible still because they aren't spellcasting and Binders do have some things to take away. Still it's why you see less classes that do things with vestiges.

PrC would surprisingly be a little more effort because it requires more thought since decent theurges get class features. Going about it the first step would be since it's a binder theurge you've got to decide whether to go with a 2 Warlock/1 Binder with Imp Binding + 1 or 2 of choice or try for a 3/3 with Imp Binding, assuming the DM does not accept items that raise EB damage to fulfill prereqs or 2/3 if they do. Second would be figuring out what level to give a Vestige's Essence/Shape oh and figure out the name for it. Then you'd look at the class and figure out some minor features and some major ones based upon the level you designed it to be entered at.

Any of the three approaches should be possible and easier than Moonborn, Form Shifter, or even probably Fury Medium (it was the easiest of the three). Easier than the Grenadier or Merchant as well, though I'm liable to cheat with both of those and steal a lot from Freelancer.

Edit: Left off the 3rd option for a base class where it doesn't get a vestige's normal abilities (just sign and influence) and instead merely gets vestige based invocations. That one gives the most leeway in ways, and is the most work as it needs... hmm... you'd want fewer total invocations but they could change them daily. Have to decide whether to give them an eldritch blast equivalent or not, hmm... Could be an interesting option.

Got a preference between the 4 options?

Caruff

2016-01-24, 02:31 AM

Niro

2016-01-24, 07:08 AM

I would like to see a massive boss-type monster which is based of one of the shas from Pandaria (Doubt, Fear, Anger, Despair, Violence, Hatred and Pride)

Zaydos

2016-01-24, 11:19 AM

I think option 1 and 4 are my favorite choices, honestly. I like the base class idea more then a PrC, especially if it's easier to make. I actually really like 4, it hadn't occurred to me to do it like that but I think it might be my favorite. Brewers choice though!

Expect to end up seeing #1 and the PrC then, though #4 might show up, it's just the most work of them all and requires some things to fall into place creatively that I can't promise will.

I would like to see a massive boss-type monster which is based of one of the shas from Pandaria (Doubt, Fear, Anger, Despair, Violence, Hatred and Pride)

Shas from Pandaria? Is this WoW?

Droopy McCool

2016-01-24, 03:36 PM

The Pseudoelemental Plane of Force (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476052-The-Pseudoelemental-Plane-of-Force&p=20332757#post20332757) is posted. Needs more information on sites, but it is as complete as any 3.0 plane, or a quasielemental plane. Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476056-Monsters-of-Force) apparently include an LA 0 race of airship vaguely viking inspired hunter/gatherers/want to be farmers.

Posted there, but wow. Wow. WOW.

McCool

Zaydos

2016-01-24, 06:09 PM

I think option 1 and 4 are my favorite choices, honestly. I like the base class idea more then a PrC, especially if it's easier to make. I actually really like 4, it hadn't occurred to me to do it like that but I think it might be my favorite. Brewers choice though!

I'd link the PrC but you've evidently already seen it (ah here's the link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476217-Eldritch-Contractor-%28Binder-Warlock-Theurge-PrC%29) for anyone else who wants it), but I do have a mock up of the base class working name Contractor. Needs fluff, a skill list, what vestige gets what invocation, and due to lacking Eldritch Blast needs an invocation list that, unlike a warlock's, includes some direct damage options and preferably low level ones at that (probably will end up with Warlock's plus select invocations from Dragonfire Adept, Jinnblood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?312765-Jinnblood-%28Base-Class-Contest-XIX-winner-PEACH%29), Form Shifter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475783-Form-Shifter-%283-5-Base-Class-Invocations-Wild-Shape%29), and Doomsayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368342-Doomsayer-%283-5-Base-Class%29). I mean the other option is to leave it with EB in which case it just feels like a better warlock (yeah it has worse hp and BAB) or up the BAB at which point it'd have to lose most, if not all, of the class features and need bigger HD to actually wade into combat and really might as well be option 2. Thankfully the theme here is at least as dark as with warlock if not darker so including Doomsayer invocations shouldn't be too hard.

GAME RULE INFORMATION

Abilities:
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d4
Starting Age: As cleric.
Starting Gold: 4d4x10 (100 GP).

Contractor

Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Invocations
Max Vestige Lv

1st
+0
+0
+0
+2
Soulbinding, Vestige’s Invocation
0
1st

2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3
-
1
1st

3rd
+1
+1
+1
+3
Detect Vestige
1
2nd

4th
+2
+1
+1
+4
-
2
2nd

5th
+2
+1
+1
+4
Invested Pact
2
3rd

6th
+3
+2
+2
+5
Lesser Invocations
3
3rd

7th
+3
+2
+2
+5
Detect Spirits
3
4th

8th
+4
+2
+2
+6
Soulbinding (2 vestiges)
3
4th

9th
+4
+3
+3
+6
-
4
4th

10th
+5
+3
+3
+7
Shielding Pact
4
5th

11th
+5
+3
+3
+7
Greater Invocations
5
5th

12th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
-
6
6th

13th
+6/+1
+4
+4
+8
Repulse Possessor
6
6th

14th
+7/+2
+4
+4
+9
Soulbinding (3 vestiges)
6
6th

15th
+7/+2
+5
+5
+9
Protecting Pact
6
7th

16th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10
Dark Invocations
7
7th

17th
+8/+3
+5
+5
+10
-
7
8th

18th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
-
8
8th

19th
+9/+4
+6
+6
+11
Invest Invocation
8
8th

20th
+10/+5
+6
+6
+12
Soulbinding (4th vestige)
8
8th

Vestige’s Invocation: Gain an invocation based on bound vestige.

Detect Vestige: Use as SLA at-will.

Invested Pact: Give up an invocation for the day for +1 EBL and 1 round faster recharge times with a single vestige. May give it up partway through day, but non-permanent Invocations immediately are ended if their effect is active.

Detect Spirit: As Detect Undead at-will but detects any creature which is considered a ‘spirit’ by a spirit shaman.

Shielding Pact: Immediate action, lose all benefits of a bound vestige for 10 minutes (including invocation) to gain immunity to mind-affecting effects till the start of your next turn.

Repulse Possessor: Immunity to possession (Magic Jar, Loumora, Fiend of Possession, etc), also may attempt to repulse a possessing entity (opposed Charisma check, you win they are forced back out) as a standard action, succeed or fail you must wait 5 rounds to use again.

Protecting Pact: Immediate action, lose all benefits of a bound vestige for 10 minutes (including invocation) to gain a resistance bonus to one save = your EBL with that vestige.

Invest Invocation: Expend a 5 round wait ability to gain +2 CL with an invocation.

Posted there, but wow. Wow. WOW.

McCool

What can I say I love Monte Cook's work on Planescape.

Caruff

2016-01-24, 10:57 PM

Love the look of the base class. Although I don't particularly like the d4 HD. Would d6 be pushing it too high? I'm pretty sure there are other classes with poor BAB and a d6 HD (the healer is the only one that comes to mind). Would slightly higher HD be OP, or is there another reason for the d4?

Ancalidormis

2016-01-25, 11:55 AM

Thanks for the Undead Monk PrC, its spectacular. I left it open ended to allow you more freedom.

Got one more request, this time with an idea coming from pathfinder.
A five level prestige class where you become the host to a Gray Goo (a fine swarm of nanites), which becomes an ooze companion.
Im thinking it could combine aspects of the nanites in the movie Jason X (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEHbl1gwuZ8) and also allow for progression in a psionic class.
If you're not too familiar with pathfinder, you can make the class in 3.5

http://i.imgur.com/EaWKT6h.jpg

Debihuman

2016-01-25, 01:15 PM

Umm gray goo is a construct, not an ooze.

Zaydos

2016-01-25, 01:53 PM

Alright first things first:

If y'all like you some homebrew base classes you ought to check out the Base Class Challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367530-Base-Class-Challenge-Chat-Thread-IV-All-Your-Base-Class-Are-Belong-to-Us) no active contest atm (expect one at the end of the month) as it is currently voting till the 29th (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?475126-Base-Class-Challenge-XXXI-Voting-Thread)

And the real reason for this obligatory plug is that I've started the Ancillary Contest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?399650-3-X-Ancillary-Contest-Chat-Thread) for more minor pieces of brew (feats, spells, magic items, vestiges, soulmelds, etc) back up so you might want to take a look, current theme: Community (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476329-3-X-Ancillary-Contest-VII-Community-the-Many-as-One).

Love the look of the base class. Although I don't particularly like the d4 HD. Would d6 be pushing it too high? I'm pretty sure there are other classes with poor BAB and a d6 HD (the healer is the only one that comes to mind). Would slightly higher HD be OP, or is there another reason for the d4?

Paranoia about power creep and an attempt to further differentiate its role from Binder at low levels (at 2nd level Poor BAB is the same as Medium and Poor Fort is hardly an issue). I've actually flip-flopped between d4 and d6, and d4 is probably a bad idea as it makes them too glass cannon-y but paranoia about power creep kicks in so it just flip flops back and forth.

Thanks for the Undead Monk PrC, its spectacular. I left it open ended to allow you more freedom.

Got one more request, this time with an idea coming from pathfinder.
A five level prestige class where you become the host to a Gray Goo (a fine swarm of nanites), which becomes an ooze companion.
Im thinking it could combine aspects of the nanites in the movie Jason X (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEHbl1gwuZ8) and also allow for progression in a psionic class.
If you're not too familiar with pathfinder, you can make the class in 3.5

http://i.imgur.com/EaWKT6h.jpg

You're welcome. Moving on to the request... First thought oh god Friday the 13th (not my favorite franchise, never did make the Jason monster or vestige I intended to, still need to make a Jason vestige), second is that I am only vaguely familiar with PF psionics (I played a werebear psywar for... 2 sessions with a bad DM*), however...

Umm gray goo is a construct, not an ooze.

...there is a bigger problem with the gray goo presented there. It's a CR 14 creature, going by Summon Monster/Nature's Ally and Animal Companion in 3.5 at least it'd not really be balanced as a companion until 21st level, with a PrC for it 20th maybe even 19th, and that's without getting into other things it does.

Ancalidormis

2016-01-25, 02:39 PM

Umm gray goo is a construct, not an ooze.

Sorry about that. I meant Construct, but wrote ooze.

You're welcome. Moving on to the request... First thought oh god Friday the 13th (not my favorite franchise, never did make the Jason monster or vestige I intended to, still need to make a Jason vestige), second is that I am only vaguely familiar with PF psionics (I played a werebear psywar for... 2 sessions with a bad DM*), however...

...there is a bigger problem with the gray goo presented there. It's a CR 14 creature, going by Summon Monster/Nature's Ally and Animal Companion in 3.5 at least it'd not really be balanced as a companion until 21st level, with a PrC for it 20th maybe even 19th, and that's without getting into other things it does.

Okay, drop the psionics concept, then.

By chance, this PrC is literally being used for a BBEG's 21st-25th levels, so it would be an appropriate creature for that level. The BBEG is an Aegis/Warder for 20 levels total, with 5 in the PrC.

Zaydos

2016-01-25, 02:45 PM

Okay, drop the psionics concept, then.

By chance, this PrC is literally being used for a BBEG's 21st-25th levels, so it would be an appropriate creature for that level. The BBEG is an Aegis/Warder for 20 levels total, with 5 in the PrC.

Well you need more than just Animal Companion at any level, I mean pure Animal Companion is just a little thing (3.5 an Animal Companion is roughly 2/3rds your level), so yeah full powered Animal Companion is strong, but we're also talking epic here. Any other snippets about the build to form a skeleton of the concept? Psion?

Ancalidormis

2016-01-25, 03:04 PM

Well you need more than just Animal Companion at any level, I mean pure Animal Companion is just a little thing (3.5 an Animal Companion is roughly 2/3rds your level), so yeah full powered Animal Companion is strong, but we're also talking epic here. Any other snippets about the build to form a skeleton of the concept? Psion?

Im imagining the perfect Symbiotic relationship. The gray goo would repair and maintain your body, maybe some fast healing or regeneration. It could empower your attacks with added strength.

Niro

2016-01-25, 03:05 PM

Shas from Pandaria? Is this WoW?

yep. My group and I are playing in a warcraft d20 setting and I would love to throw one of these massive monsters at them.

Basically they are big lumps of emotions given life. Big and mean. Usually with some abilities related to the emotion they are based off

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Sha

Zaydos

2016-01-25, 03:06 PM

Im imagining the perfect Symbiotic relationship. The gray goo would repair and maintain your body, maybe some fast healing or regeneration. It could empower your attacks with added strength.

More meant what sort of guy the BBEG is without the class. High level psion? Caster? Melee? Gish? It determines what the PrCs focus is on, though as an epic prc... does PF's epic rules still use the Epic Attack Bonus and Epic Saves progression rules?

Ancalidormis

2016-01-25, 03:31 PM

More meant what sort of guy the BBEG is without the class. High level psion? Caster? Melee? Gish? It determines what the PrCs focus is on, though as an epic prc... does PF's epic rules still use the Epic Attack Bonus and Epic Saves progression rules?

He's basically an evil Warforged warrior with dark powers infusing his swordplay. He's filled with nanites, protecting him from dying from horrendous wounds that would kill a lesser being.
He expands his size and creates armor with psionics, while focusing on a mix of Tanking and DPS. He uses a greatsword and vital strike to deal massive amounts of damage in big chunks.

Ideally, any thing that could repair him or back him up would be beneficial.

PF doesnt have epic rules. Mythic ranks are more like CR increasing templates than actual levels.

Zaydos

2016-01-25, 08:41 PM

First things first.

This thread is closed to new requests until further notice. Want to try the grenadier and the nanite at least before opening it again.

Love the look of the base class. Although I don't particularly like the d4 HD. Would d6 be pushing it too high? I'm pretty sure there are other classes with poor BAB and a d6 HD (the healer is the only one that comes to mind). Would slightly higher HD be OP, or is there another reason for the d4?

Finished. Upped HD to d6, lowered skills back to Warlock/Binder levels (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476376-Contractor-(Base-Class-Vestiges-Invocation-Request)).

yep. My group and I are playing in a warcraft d20 setting and I would love to throw one of these massive monsters at them.

Basically they are big lumps of emotions given life. Big and mean. Usually with some abilities related to the emotion they are based off

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Sha

I'll have to take a look at some point, no promises atm.

He's basically an evil Warforged warrior with dark powers infusing his swordplay. He's filled with nanites, protecting him from dying from horrendous wounds that would kill a lesser being.
He expands his size and creates armor with psionics, while focusing on a mix of Tanking and DPS. He uses a greatsword and vital strike to deal massive amounts of damage in big chunks.

Ideally, any thing that could repair him or back him up would be beneficial.

PF doesnt have epic rules. Mythic ranks are more like CR increasing templates than actual levels.

So PsyWar, ok. Should it be made with 3.0s epic prc stuff, or just be a prc that requires at least 20 levels before entry?

Ancalidormis

2016-01-26, 06:23 AM

So PsyWar, ok. Should it be made with 3.0s epic prc stuff, or just be a prc that requires at least 20 levels before entry?

Not exactly, since there is no Psychic warrior classes involved.
The Aegis class summons armor, Soulknife style. The Warder has access to Black Seraph maneuvers from PoW, which grant it supernatural attacks of an evil nature.

Id ignore standard epic progression rules and treat it like any other PrC, just with restrictions that set it around 20th level.

Perhaps a special requirement?

Special: Warforged, Forgeborn, or Android only.
or
Special: Must have been slain by a Gray Goo or otherwise willingly allowed it to infest your body.

Caruff

2016-01-26, 04:48 PM

Thanks for finishing the contractor! Can't wait to play it.

Zaydos

2016-01-26, 11:20 PM

Maybe something like a bomber or a grenadier prc?

Fulfilled? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?476496-Grenadier-%28PrC-Request%29&p=20350497#post20350497) Went faster when my brain finally registered PrC.

Not exactly, since there is no Psychic warrior classes involved.
The Aegis class summons armor, Soulknife style. The Warder has access to Black Seraph maneuvers from PoW, which grant it supernatural attacks of an evil nature.

Id ignore standard epic progression rules and treat it like any other PrC, just with restrictions that set it around 20th level.

Perhaps a special requirement?

Special: Warforged, Forgeborn, or Android only.
or
Special: Must have been slain by a Gray Goo or otherwise willingly allowed it to infest your body.

Ok. Do Forgeborn/Androids have the Living Construct subtype?

Thanks for finishing the contractor! Can't wait to play it.

You're welcome and I'm glad to hear it.

Ancalidormis

2016-01-27, 03:05 AM

Ok. Do Forgeborn/Androids have the Living Construct subtype?

The Androids are Humanoids (Android), but count as constructs for a bunch of effects. Forgeborn are living contructs, i think.

Zaydos

2016-01-27, 06:27 PM

Quick outline for Goo Host, has not had math done at all really.

Gray Host (working name)

BAB Med
Good Fort
Good Will
2/5 Psionics (2 and 4)
HD: d10.
Skills: 4 + Int.

Level by level:
1st: Tamed Nanites – Nanite companion which is only active for Constitution rounds each day.
Nanite Healing: Fast Healing 3 x Class level when nanites are within you
2nd: Armoring Nanites: Your natural armor bonus is increased by class level when nanites are within you and you gain DR level/-.
3rd: Enduring Tamed Nanites – Nanite companion can now stay active for any number of rounds within 60 ft of you, but begins to weaken if it goes beyond.
Fast Ability Healing: Heal 1 point to each ability score each round while nanites are within you.
4th: Empowering Nanites: Gain +2 to Strength and Constitution while nanites are within.
Energized Magical Pulse: 3/day Targeted Greater Dispel Magic on all creatures within the swarm (standard action).
5th: Greater Tamed Nanites – Nanite companion no longer has to stay nearby, gains bonus hit dice and abilities.
Active Repair; 3/day when within you nanites may use Heal as a full round action. Heals 1 point of ability drain to each ability score as well.

I would like to see a massive boss-type monster which is based of one of the shas from Pandaria (Doubt, Fear, Anger, Despair, Violence, Hatred and Pride)

Got a level range it's supposed to be a boss for? I mean CR is questionable at best and high quality boss has an odd relationship with it (4e's solos were an interesting idea on it).

Niro

2016-02-06, 09:15 AM

Got a level range it's supposed to be a boss for? I mean CR is questionable at best and high quality boss has an odd relationship with it (4e's solos were an interesting idea on it).

hmm level 30-40. Somewhere inbetween there would be super

Zaydos

2016-02-07, 04:43 PM

hmm level 30-40. Somewhere inbetween there would be super

In that case I don't think I can help. The game math breaks down at epic levels especially for boss monsters and CR becomes meaningless. They really have to be custom tailored to the party and that means DMing the party first.

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 02:10 AM

And I declare this thread back in business and open to new requests. If there is any unfinished old request that people still want feel free to repost it.But come one, come all, and bring what requests you've got.

Illven

2016-02-10, 03:09 AM

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-10, 03:19 AM

some kind of vestige, with abilities that have random effects, like a prismatic spray spell or rod of wonder. Possibly the gambling type.

khadgar567

2016-02-10, 03:24 AM

10 level Warlock prc that gives martial initation for black heron and eldricth rain

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 03:26 AM

A spellcaster prestige class that is anti-mundane in nature.

Is this supposed to be a test of what I do with this prompt? Because my mind goes to flight, wind effect, DR, and dispel magic items, or anti-mundane as in makes the world fantastic around them.

some kind of vestige, with abilities that have random effects, like a prismatic spray spell or rod of wonder. Possibly the gambling type.

Is it supposed to be based on you, or more leeway in fluff and just something that fits random effects/gambling?

Illven

2016-02-10, 03:37 AM

Is this supposed to be a test of what I do with this prompt? Because my mind goes to flight, wind effect, DR, and dispel magic items, or anti-mundane as in makes the world fantastic around them.

The first one. Make those mundanes suffer!:smalltongue:

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-10, 03:45 AM

Is it supposed to be based on you, or more leeway in fluff and just something that fits random effects/gambling?

you know what, take the leeway if you want, do what you think would be fun to make.

Edit: after all the main reason I finally joined this forum was to get help making what i thought was the most fun character(I still rate it in the top 5, but prefer to have less power in my characters). I enlisted the help of the forum to help find all the random and teleportation based spells on a wild mage sorcerer.

Murk

2016-02-10, 04:47 AM

I'd really like to see a class that is based on denial. A person that is so willful and headstrong that she can just go "No way this is happening!" and influence the world around her with it.
I imagine it could function in very different ways, based on willpower and special abilities of choice. A little bit of healing (in the manner of "not happening! These wounds are not here!"), some buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies ("Yeah, like you'd actually get stronger by putting on gauntlets"). I imagine this class would be especially effective against spellcasters - what is easier to deny than flying fireballs?

It would be awesome if skills could somehow be tied into this. A lot of denials based on persuasion or diplomacy like skills that make your denials towards yourself or others stronger, or the knowledge skills (maybe knowledge is even counteractive?).
I would also be impressed if there is a way to make this both function with very smart people (the smarter/wiser you are, the better your willpower and understanding) and very dumb people (with incredibly low intelligence and wisdom it's easier to deny mundane things).

I see a lot of possibility for cool gameplay and lots of different builds with one class, and I also see a lot of problems getting this into crunch. Which would make it interesting, I guess.

tsj

2016-02-10, 05:14 AM

I was thinking that

a savage tracker / detective type of class,
something like a mix of

dark sun Savage PrC
dark sun Reaver PrC
MASTERS OF THE WILD Watch Detective PrC
maybe also MASTERS OF THE WILD Frenzied Berzerker PrC (not needed but fun because of surpreme cleave and power attack?)
MASTERS OF THE WILD Bloodhound PrC
MASTERS OF THE WILD Eye Of Gruumsh PrC (because ritual scarring is kind of cool)
RACES OF THE WILD Wild Runner PrC

with focus on combat, detective work and tracking in a savage kind of way :)

would make an interesting class :)

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 03:19 PM

some kind of vestige, with abilities that have random effects, like a prismatic spray spell or rod of wonder. Possibly the gambling type.

Should be finished. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478079-Jhakara-Who-Gambled-and-Won-%28Vestige-Request%29&p=20407547#post20407547)

Also since it occurs to me, there's a wild mage in the current base class challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477112-Base-Class-Contest-XXXII-Tipping-the-Scale-II-3-5) and my entry is... insane worshiper of Chaos and the disruption of balance for its own sake (with Lovecraftian variant) who has a combination of random effects whenever they manifest a psionic power and random teleportation. Throw on some fire ability and it's pretty close to a more destructive version of a base class I'd make to represent you. I'm not sure it actually fits the theme, though.

Also your wild mage experiences remind me of my own. Mine was a Focused Conjurer though and I loved the character but oh god the power level was too high (DM requested I be able to turn a TPK into 'an ordinary encounter' so my clarification on that ended up with 'can kill at least multiple CR 13 dragons sans feats/spells a day solo' so umm... yeah... too strong).

10 level Warlock prc that gives martial initation for black heron and eldricth rain

Where is Black Heron from?

I'd really like to see a class that is based on denial. A person that is so willful and headstrong that she can just go "No way this is happening!" and influence the world around her with it.
I imagine it could function in very different ways, based on willpower and special abilities of choice. A little bit of healing (in the manner of "not happening! These wounds are not here!"), some buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies ("Yeah, like you'd actually get stronger by putting on gauntlets"). I imagine this class would be especially effective against spellcasters - what is easier to deny than flying fireballs?

It would be awesome if skills could somehow be tied into this. A lot of denials based on persuasion or diplomacy like skills that make your denials towards yourself or others stronger, or the knowledge skills (maybe knowledge is even counteractive?).
I would also be impressed if there is a way to make this both function with very smart people (the smarter/wiser you are, the better your willpower and understanding) and very dumb people (with incredibly low intelligence and wisdom it's easier to deny mundane things).

I see a lot of possibility for cool gameplay and lots of different builds with one class, and I also see a lot of problems getting this into crunch. Which would make it interesting, I guess.

Base or PrC? This one might be a bit difficult. I've toyed with the idea before, heck my current base class challenge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477112-Base-Class-Contest-XXXII-Tipping-the-Scale-II-3-5) entry had abilities born from this sort of concept, specifically Reject Limitation, Rewrite Limitations, and the mental defenses were in early development stages fluffed as denial based abilities, but it's never gotten past the concept stage before the denial aspect gets scrapped as not coming out satisfactorily.

I was thinking that

a savage tracker / detective type of class,
something like a mix of

dark sun Savage PrC
dark sun Reaver PrC
MASTERS OF THE WILD Watch Detective PrC
maybe also MASTERS OF THE WILD Frenzied Berzerker PrC (not needed but fun because of surpreme cleave and power attack?)
MASTERS OF THE WILD Bloodhound PrC
MASTERS OF THE WILD Eye Of Gruumsh PrC (because ritual scarring is kind of cool)
RACES OF THE WILD Wild Runner PrC

with focus on combat, detective work and tracking in a savage kind of way :)

would make an interesting class :)

Dark Sun ones available online?

illyahr

2016-02-10, 03:50 PM

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-10, 04:20 PM

Also your wild mage experiences remind me of my own. Mine was a Focused Conjurer though and I loved the character but oh god the power level was too high (DM requested I be able to turn a TPK into 'an ordinary encounter' so my clarification on that ended up with 'can kill at least multiple CR 13 dragons sans feats/spells a day solo' so umm... yeah... too strong).

Apart from being very strong I also managed to get the party lost for an entire day with a misplaced teleport at max CL. I ran out of teleport slots and we had to set up camp for the day.

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 10:16 PM

Ok, I would like a vestige based on me. :smallsmile:

I'm looking for something along the lines of the Joker Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?99903-Batman-s-Bane-The-Joker). This is basically what I do as a diplomancer. :smallbiggrin:

Completed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478122-Illyahr-the-Lost-Troubadour-%28Vestige-Request%29&p=20409203#post20409203).

Apart from being very strong I also managed to get the party lost for an entire day with a misplaced teleport at max CL. I ran out of teleport slots and we had to set up camp for the day.

:smallbiggrin:

AtlasSniperman

2016-02-10, 10:29 PM

Hey, I hope you'll see this as something simple.

I was hoping you could toss me a 3 or 5 level PrC that is basically everything people take Paladin for?

illyahr

2016-02-10, 10:37 PM

Completed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478122-Illyahr-the-Lost-Troubadour-%28Vestige-Request%29&p=20409203#post20409203).

It doesn't have a bind DC. Otherwise, looks amazing. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 10:58 PM

Hey, I hope you'll see this as something simple.

I was hoping you could toss me a 3 or 5 level PrC that is basically everything people take Paladin for?

I am tempted to just make a table which are the first five levels of paladin. I mean there are things that aren't in the first 5 levels of paladin that people actually take paladin for? For the most part it's Divine Grace, maybe going a little deeper for Aura of Courage and Turn Undead, maybe going for mount.

It doesn't have a bind DC. Otherwise, looks amazing. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Well it's a bard. You can't actually make a good pact with them. You think you have but you end up under their influence anyway :smalltongue:

It should be 21, the legal drinking DC.

AtlasSniperman

2016-02-10, 10:58 PM

I am tempted to just make a table which are the first five levels of paladin. I mean there are things that aren't in the first 5 levels of paladin that people actually take paladin for? For the most part it's Divine Grace, maybe going a little deeper for Aura of Courage and Turn Undead, maybe going for mount.

Fair cop. Nevermind.

Zaydos

2016-02-10, 11:01 PM

Fair cop. Nevermind.

Then it struck me that WotC already did what you were asking. They gave it 15 levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) but every ability you actually take Paladin levels for is in the first 3 levels.

Zaydos

2016-02-11, 12:45 AM

A spellcaster prestige class that is anti-mundane in nature.

I feel dirty now, but it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478139-Magocrat-Enforcer-%28PrC-Request%29) is done.

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-11, 03:21 AM

Should be finished. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478079-Jhakara-Who-Gambled-and-Won-%28Vestige-Request%29&p=20407547#post20407547)

I am actually a bit interested in how you arrived at the damage type distribution for gambled blast.

Zaydos

2016-02-11, 03:45 AM

I am actually a bit interested in how you arrived at the damage type distribution for gambled blast.

Started with sonic since it is the least likely to be resisted and thus 'best', then I decided to put on fire because it's common*, and cold ended up highest because I hadn't determined whether it would be on there or not till I got to the highest and went 'yeah I'll put cold on'.

*I did not fully think out why 'it's common' was a justification, merely half formed 'vulnerability, immunity, eh', but actually it works because it functions to minimize variability to an extent. As it's the most likely to be immune to, you lose less from that immunity than if it was the say 2d6, at the same time it is the second most likely to run into vulnerability so you gain less from vulnerability and it merely brings it up to between Acid and Electricity.

Really if it was fully thought out Cold and Acid would be switched, maybe even sonic < fire < cold < electricity < acid. Elec is more likely to be immune to than cold (in my experience demons out number cold creatures) except in cold themed campaigns, but cold is the most common vulnerability and actually a really good energy type because of it (well I'd say it's 2nd best and generally my first pick at 2nd energy type).

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-11, 04:02 AM

Zaydos

2016-02-11, 04:13 AM

interesting, i believe someone once stated out how common resistances and immunities were, from most to least common it went: fire, cold, electricity, acid, sonic. Also, some people don't know this but except for a very few special cases all fire immune creatures are cold vulnerable and all cold immune creatures are fire vulnerable. At least i think so, there is some weird rules conflicts around that one. It might be related to the infamous RC vs core debate. I can never remember where the rules say that and where they don't.

DMG says that
Monster Manual, which is the primary source for rules on monsters, does not. It does not specifically say they don't, but it lists them as two separate abilities and nowhere says they do, instead using the same text for Fire/Cold Subtype that the DMG uses for Immunity which puts it in a primary source (MM) versus secondary source (DMG) meaning the latter theoretically doesn't apply. That said the only relatively common creatures with Fire Immunity that lack the subtype are baatezu which have built in Cold Resistance. Rules Compendium then says that they "typically" have vulnerability.

Also MM 16 + Liches + Skeletons have Cold Immunity, 29 have Electricity Immunity.

NeoPhoenix0

2016-02-11, 04:27 AM

At least the homebrewer has their head on straight.

caledscratcher

2016-02-11, 06:16 AM

Hewn Tree prestige class! My lumberjack baby needs to grow even moar.

khadgar567

2016-02-11, 06:31 AM

Where is Black Heron from?

home brew disipline compendium ErrantX's one ( actualy here is the link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?100874-TOB-The-Black-Heron-Discipline)for it)

tsj

2016-02-11, 11:20 AM

Zaydos : "Dark Sun ones available online?"

Yes :

http://athas.org/products/prc1/documents/39

:)

Zaydos

2016-02-11, 01:37 PM

At least the homebrewer has their head on straight.

I actually had never compared just how many had each before. I will also note that as Baatezu have Cold Resistance 10 but not Electricity Resistance it does push for Electricity to be a little better. I'd still take Cold as my go to secondary (neglecting Frostburn stuff to make it better) with Acid being the best if you only get 1 type other than sonic.

Hewn Tree prestige class! My lumberjack baby needs to grow even moar.

I'll see what I can come up with. This makes me think of Tall Tale with Profession (Lumberjack) (probably the sheer mathematically strongest Exaggerated Skill I may nerf it one of these days) and Martial Study to become a nearly Colossal Lumberjack.

home brew disipline compendium ErrantX's one ( actualy here is the link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?100874-TOB-The-Black-Heron-Discipline)for it)

Ah ok. I will note the maneuvers which nauseate are completely broken for their level (as someone already pointed out in the thread), the 8th level ones include one that is at least comparable to a 9th level maneuver (large AoE, enemy only, unresistable, ~100 damage save for half), and the 9th level one is... actually sort of boring in that game effect wise it's just a second Time Stands Still (which is itself the best damage dealing maneuver in the game unless you have a whole party of melee combatants) likely slightly worse. The 8th level stance needs some work or at least clarification whether you heal 2d6 or 2d6 per creature within the area (the first is strong for an 8th level stance because they mostly suck, the second is ungodly if you fight groups of enemies).

The rest are pretty well balanced against ToB.

If I am asked to brew with a piece of brew I will critique it.

Zaydos : "Dark Sun ones available online?"

Yes :

http://athas.org/products/prc1/documents/39

:)

I'll have to take a gander and then contemplate what you're after.

Eldest

2016-02-12, 01:55 PM

Some MTG Red themed, non-blasty spells. Bonus points if they're subtle, or at least not in-your-face direct.

Zaydos

2016-02-12, 03:04 PM

Some MTG Red themed, non-blasty spells. Bonus points if they're subtle, or at least not in-your-face direct.

Question is this supposed to be for Sor/Wiz (or cleric etc) or for the mana casting system I made for Simic Biomancer and keep promising to make red spells for (and potentially an Izzet class once I've done so) at some point?

caledscratcher

2016-02-12, 04:11 PM

For the hewn tree request, if some more specificity helps, then making it for gnomes with a couple levels in sorcerer would be really cool.

Eldest

2016-02-13, 01:35 AM

Question is this supposed to be for Sor/Wiz (or cleric etc) or for the mana casting system I made for Simic Biomancer and keep promising to make red spells for (and potentially an Izzet class once I've done so) at some point?

I mean, it'd be cool if you did the mana system, but not a requirement I guess?

Zaydos

2016-02-14, 05:03 PM

10 level Warlock prc that gives martial initation for black heron and eldricth rain

Completed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478510-Dread-Vulture-Mage-%28Sublime-Warlock-PrC-request%29&p=20422631#post20422631) went with a dark mirror to Jade Phoenix Mage.

For the hewn tree request, if some more specificity helps, then making it for gnomes with a couple levels in sorcerer would be really cool.

I would never have gone in that direction on my own.

I mean, it'd be cool if you did the mana system, but not a requirement I guess?

Well it's your request, which do you prefer?

Eldest

2016-02-14, 08:02 PM

Then I suppose using the mana system. Should be interesting. Maybe a feat or two to add colors to your identity and let you use them even without being a default mana-caster, as well?

caledscratcher

2016-02-14, 08:50 PM

My first character was a gnome sorcerer with ranks in Profession (lumberjack). It stuck.

Zaydos

2016-02-15, 03:21 PM

Then I suppose using the mana system. Should be interesting. Maybe a feat or two to add colors to your identity and let you use them even without being a default mana-caster, as well?

Not anywhere near posting ready but I've got a start. Still only partially completed, but got 2 spell that are workable for Red and not direct damage (though one does equate to damage, but via buffing allies).

Fledgling Spellshaper [General]

Prerequisites: Int, Wis, or Cha 13+, no color identity.
Benefit: When you take this feat select a color, it is considered to be part of your color identity. Then select 1 1st level mana spell of that color that includes no colors outside of your color identity. You gain the ability to use that spell as a spell-like ability 1/day (CL = ½ character level, min 1st). Beginning at 10th level you may use that spell as a 2nd level spell. Beginning at 16th level you may use that spell as a 3rd level spell.

Adept Spellshaper [General]

Prerequisites: Fledgling Spellshaper, ability to cast 2nd level non-mana spells.
Benefit: You gain a mana pool with a capacity of 1/3rd your level in classes which grant or progress spellcasting, or your existing mana pool capacity increases to that amount if you do not already have a mana pool with a capacity of at least that amount. Your Mana Expertise Level is equal to 2/3rds your level in classes which grant or progress spellcasting. In addition select one mana spell and add it to your spell-list and spells known of any one class. You can cast it as a spell of a level listed by the conversion table below.

Mana Spell LevelTraditional Spell Level
00
1st1st
2nd3rd
3rd4th
4th5th
5th7th
6th8th

Awe of the Guilds
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Color: Red
Level: 2nd
Mana: 2R
Components: S, V
Casting Time: 1 Swift action.
Range: 30-ft + 5-ft/2 caster levels
Area: 30-ft + 5-ft/2 caster levels emanation centered on self.
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You invoke a portion of the guild pact impressing upon those nearby the power of the guilds, momentarily blanking their minds.

Creatures within the area are unable to make attacks of opportunity or take immediate actions for the duration of this effect. Creatures without a color identity, with 2 colors in their color identity, with a colorless color identity, or affiliated with one of the 10 Guilds of Ravnica gain a +4 bonus to their save. Creatures affiliated with one of the 10 Guilds of Ravnica and with 2 colors in their color identity or a colorless color identity are immune.
Heightening: If you cast this spell from a higher level spell slot you may select one of the following options. You may select a lower level option but they are not cumulative.
3rd: Area is doubled.
4th: Creatures which fail their saves cannot move.
5th: Creatures which fail their saves are dazed.
6th: You may select two of the below options, or range is increased to 300 ft + 25 ft/caster level.

Dynacharge
Evocation [Electricity]
Color: Red
Level: 1st
Mana: R
Components: S, V
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Close (25-ft + 5-ft/2 caster levels)
Target: 1 creature
Duration: 1 round/caster level.
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You charge your ally with electricity, lightning crackling from their body.

Target creature’s body becomes charged with electrical energy. They deal +1d8 +1/2 caster level electricity damage with all weapon (including natural) attacks, and any creature striking them with an unarmed strike or natural weapon, or a metal melee weapon suffers 1 electricity damage per 2 caster levels you possess.
Overload: You may pay 2R instead of R to cast this spell. If you do so its Target changes to Area: Allied creatures within a 20 ft radius but its duration is reduced to 1 round.

Heightening:
3rd level: You may cast Dynacharge as a swift action, or its duration increases to 1 round/caster level if Overcharged.
4th level: Select 1 level 3 option and damage dealt with attacks is increased by +1d8 as is damage dealt when attacked, or select an additional 3rd level option.
5th: Select a 3rd and 4th level option, and electricity damage is increased by 1/2 CL (or change from +1/2 CL to + CL) or cast as an immediate action.
6th: Gain all 3rd, 4th, and 5th level options, or gain 1 of each and if overcharged area becomes a burst centered on you out to maximum range.

My first character was a gnome sorcerer with ranks in Profession (lumberjack). It stuck.

Ah, that'd do it.

I've got some basic ideas for this, but haven't put them to 'paper' yet. In short I'm thinking require Enlarge Person as a spell (maybe with an or spell-like ability), Profession (Lumberjack) 10 ranks, and granting it's own spell progression starting with 2nd level spells (character level 8) and ending with 7th level spells (character level 17) letting them serve as a melee heavy gish. Maybe make a Gnome only feat that makes Enlarge Person grow you a 2nd size (and has other effects), or give them a class feature at 1st level that does so and at higher levels let them toggle between Large, Medium, or Small at-will as a swift action.