Homebrew Runelord Class 3.5

[LordOfCain]

How would this fit in with existing classes? Is it over/underpowered compared to core classes? Google Docs Link (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s65vTs-OHEiVoIO8129JueBQ7mTvBAB8lUMCD4rDMdA/edit?usp=sharing)

[LordOfCain]

FYI It gets all cleric and bard spells on its list.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would suggest posting this in the homebrew forum. They specialize in this stuff over there.

[LordOfCain]

I did repost it in the Homebrew forum. I just wanted some other people to look at it from the perspective of min-maxers.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Immediately I see a problem: a 9th level runelord can cast miracle. This means that have access to all spells, powers, mysteries, and other such of 7th level or lower starting at 9. This is when classes get 5th level spells... You need to cap the maximum level of spell as well (say class level = 2x spell level? This puts it on par with sorcerer).

[LordOfCain]

It can only access spells of the level that bards of the same level can access them... :smallconfused::smallconfused:

[DMVerdandi]

Nah, it's not overpowered. I would say it's underpowered.

Any reason why you don't just use the Runecaster PRC with Inscribe rune, and craft rune circle feats?
It's better. Not only that, but using an Archivist with those two is a BEAST.[all divine spells{INCLUDING DIVINE BARD}].

It's a bit presumptuous calling it a runelord in that regard. Rune adept really.



It does remind me of the D20 modern Occultist in having that sort of create magical items instead of actual spell casting thing though. That kind of mixed with an artificer.

[DMVerdandi]

Now that I think about it, IMO, this would be a better suggestion for the class itself...


Artificer BAB,proficiencies, and skills+ all knowledge skills.

Uses spell-point variant from UA.

Actually uses Infusions up to level 9, but can cast every spell as an infusion. The runelord only knows the infusions innately, but makes the same spell craft check to learn a spell of a level it can cast to add onto the infusion list.(DC20+Spell level). These spells can be learned from sight, or from seeing a magical item.


Call infusions RUNE INFUSIONS, and you are done.

[Also, if you don't want level 9, and feel the need to nerf yourself, level 6 infusions is a lesser alternative.]

[LordOfCain]

This is supposed to fit in with solely core classes. There are a few more additions that I have thought of/written in a notebook but have not put in the document yet. Working on that now.

[DMVerdandi]

This is supposed to fit in with solely core classes. There are a few more additions that I have thought of/written in a notebook but have not put in the document yet. Working on that now.

No core classes have rune points.
So what do you mean by fit in?

[LordOfCain]

Not be severely more powerful/less powerful.

[LordOfCain]

Added most of the important stuff. Still working on checking the power level of a PrC using a PrC creation system.

[LordOfCain]

UPDATE: Done with all of my ideas so far. Have a vague idea for a hunter PrC that gets special runes though.

[LordOfCain]

Would this be an adequate replacement for Wizard??? I also want to replace druid with a version of runelord that gets 1 rune point per level and casts as a bard of half of its level. (Low-ish magic campaign.

[Vhaidara]

Not be severely more powerful/less powerful.

Just a heads up, this isn't really possible, because of the range of power in core. A class can be a hundred times more powerful than the Monk, and still be a hundred million times weaker than Wizard. See, every class from Tome of Battle.

[Sacrieur]

I think you're under the mistaken impression that core classes are well balanced.

A quick glance through the class makes me think it's just a messy divine psion. Upon further looksies, I'm finding a lot of thing that are not thematically appropriate; not that there really is a theme to start. I don't get the impression this class has anything to do with runes.

[LordOfCain]

Here is a somewhat updated document. Updated Document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xPiYnAEnOtHqfEBBb5xP50vUTvzCnTYgKGvZsfWVQkg/edit?usp=sharing)

[LordOfCain]

They are supposed to be people that have to prepare before battle and can use runes on weapons/as tattoos.

[LordOfCain]

The Magic of Runes Google Doc I linked above should add a little bit of power to the runelord.

[LordOfCain]

Also the runelord is intended to replace the wizard.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would highly recommend you use the edit function (the pencil-like object in the bottom right hand corner) instead of quad posting. Twice.

[DMVerdandi]

Just a heads up, this isn't really possible, because of the range of power in core. A class can be a hundred times more powerful than the Monk, and still be a hundred million times weaker than Wizard. See, every class from Tome of Battle.


I think you're under the mistaken impression that core classes are well balanced.

A quick glance through the class makes me think it's just a messy divine psion. Upon further looksies, I'm finding a lot of thing that are not thematically appropriate; not that there really is a theme to start. I don't get the impression this class has anything to do with runes.

I was going to re-post just these very things.

Core has the big 3. There has only been 3 other classes that have been in the same ballpark.
So either you are making it towards more of a paladin/ranger/bard level [and barely bard, since it is WAY ahead of those two in potency]
Or you are completely missing the ball in putting them in league with wiz/drd/clr


I mean if it's what you want to play, play it, but it's not something that as Sacrieur says screams runes.
And it's way weaker than everything rune based that WOTC has put out.

[LordOfCain]

How should I increase its power then??? EDIT: Sorry about the quad posting.

[ZamielVanWeber]

How should I increase its power then??? EDIT: Sorry about the quad posting.

Increasing power is not intrinsically improving the class. Wizard is insanely powerful but I have never seen anyone argue that it is a well designed class.

[LordOfCain]

Well how should I improve the class then to make it more playable?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Adding clarity is always a good start. Also I would highly recommend making rune points scale a bit with level. Eventually you will need an int of 30 to access 6th level spells.

[LordOfCain]

Adding clarity is always a good start. Also I would highly recommend making rune points scale a bit with level. Eventually you will need an int of 30 to access 6th level spells. Huh? You get 2 + your Int modifier rune points to your total number of rune points. So at level 5 with 20 Int, you should have 35 rune points....

[ZamielVanWeber]

Huh? You get 2 + your Int modifier rune points to your total number of rune points. So at level 5 with 20 Int, you should have 35 rune points....

See what I meant by adding clarity? Also that is an insane number of spells for such a low level. You are beating the pants off of cleric at level 4.

[LordOfCain]

Oh. I changed it so you add Int/2 and every other level it is just +1 rune point not +2. That means a level 5 runelord with 20 Int has 20 rune points. Sorry about the excess rune points. I wrote it down in my notepad differently. It just changed in translation.

[DMVerdandi]

Well how should I improve the class then to make it more playable?

Instead of reinventing the wheel, just use the spell point system.
If Cleric and Bard (But why?) are the spell lists you want, thats fine. Have them prepare those spells as a cleric. Have it progress as a cleric.






Now, to add in the rune stuff:
-give the rune lord free access to craft rune, craft magic tattoo, and craft rune circle as bonus feats.
-Give it all of the class abilities of the rune crafter.


Done.