[PF] OP builders ASSEMBLE!!!!

[Egali]

So my home group talked classes and started on the road to making our characters for the jade regent campaign. I have been denied playing unchained monk because the other 3 people I play with say that the unchained monk is too overpowered compared to the other classes. They even went on to say that it looks more overpowered then a wizard!!! Now this group has never gotten to end game parts of a campaign and not really min-max players. However, I intend to show them what a "Overpowered" class looks like and need your help in doing so. I am fairly new to Pathfinders but I have played in society long enough to see crazy builds that would wipe my friends builds away. So heres the info.

As far as score/attributes go we roll for them. I am rocking with two 17s, two 15s, an 11, and a 10. (17,17,15,15,11,10) I really prefer melee or in your face play style.

Rules are we are not allowed occult or unchained classes. Races are not an issue but must be approved by GM. He is not ok with things normally considered "Evil" and it is probably best to stick with the common races. But if you feel something a little far out there is better then I can bring up the race to him.

We are starting at lv 3 and with 3000g.

Multiclassing is ok.

Last thing, it is going to be just a 3 man campaign for now until we find more people to join us in our area. The other 2 players are going monk and ninja.

And thats it so come on guys lets do this and show these fools what a real "OP" build looks like.

[Snowbluff]

Cleric Archer is generically strong at both archer and caster.

17 in dex and wis, 15s in con and str.

Samsaran Race, pick up Litany of Righteousness, (Greater) Named Bullet, Abundant Ammuntion (for named bullets and just saving ammo), and Saddle Surge.

Feather Domain and War (Shortbow or [Composite Longbow]). Get a tough mount that flies well to carry you everywhere.

You can dip up to 3 levels in Zen Archer monk if you aren't a big fan of better casting and you want some bonus feats and wis to accuracy.

[legomaster00156]

Or you could take a non-passive-aggressive route and explain to him that the Unchained Monk is, in fact, not overpowered. It's a good class, and much better than the core Monk, but come on. Better than a Wizard?

[Florian]

Lol.

With those stats, I'd actually pick plain vanilla paladin and go to town with a tomahawk*, watching those guy squeal.

*Ok, Katana, but pick that along Power Attack.

[N. Jolly]

Or you could take a non-passive-aggressive route and explain to him that the Unchained Monk is, in fact, not overpowered. It's a good class, and much better than the core Monk, but come on. Better than a Wizard?

This seems like the correct option, although if we're simply going to just make a monster, I say go classic and go beastmorph vivisectionist, I'd go lizardfolk with some trait to give a bite attack and you're golden.

[Florian]

Oh guys, where is the fun in that? Please do remember, you get your hands on a quick scaling minor artefact in this AP? Is there mire joy than actually wielding this for extreme results? Who should argue with an artefact about pg'ing?

[Egali]

Or you could take a non-passive-aggressive route and explain to him that the Unchained Monk is, in fact, not overpowered. It's a good class, and much better than the core Monk, but come on. Better than a Wizard? I've tried explaining to them all of this but they have the mind set that "oh the class shows he hits this many times and this hard. Yours telling me he gets to add both wis and dex to ac?! Hes too Overpowered." I'm playing with a group that really has no clue what overpowered means and when I told them you could get a lv 1 cav to do roughly 25-30 damage right of the bat they were shocked and couldnt believe it.

[Egali]

FYI we cant get to crazy with races I had to fight to allow things like tengu and aasimars.

[Florian]

Ouch, just reread the other two are Monk and Ninja.

Well, chose human, warpriest, Shizuru, Good, Law, pick Power Attack, Divine Protection and Quicken Blessing later, opting for the Eldritch Heritage Chain...

[Jack_Simth]

Ouch, just reread the other two are Monk and Ninja.

Well, chose human, warpriest, Shizuru, Good, Law, pick Power Attack, Divine Protection and Quicken Blessing later, opting for the Eldritch Heritage Chain...

Warning:
Divine Protection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection) got a pretty serious nerf, and is now close to useless, rather than a no-brainer for any divine caster with decent Charisma.

[Florian]

Warning:
Divine Protection (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/divine-protection) got a pretty serious nerf, and is now close to useless, rather than a no-brainer for any divine caster with decent Charisma.

Sure, it got downgraded, but it's still a pretty good feat, especially looking at that group setup, when you're potentially the only caster and you have to make that save.

I stick with the other stuff: You should be able to wield a katana to handle suishen and quick, low-graw in-combat healing will be necessary because things will go down fast with this setup.

Only thing I may exchange is possibly Sacred Tattoo H-Orc, because this is one of the rare cases you actually find the Jingasa.

[Egali]

So Im on the paizo forums and people are suggesting going synthesis summoner or master summoner. Is that an idea and just use wands for healing the group?

[Florian]

People will always recommend that. That's the nature of the most broken things availlable and asking about optimization.

The thing is, there's a huge difference between "so overpowered that it's annoying" and " so easy to play overpowered, people will look at it in awe".

If you want to subly nudge your fellow players in a more optimized direction, then it's not helping chosing something so weird as these options. That'll make most people shy away more.

[Gnaeus]

OP, In your face, got it.

L3 Dwarf Shaman (Life)
Str 15
Dex 15
Con 19
Int 10
Wis 19
Cha 9
Avg HP at level 3, 31

Hex: Witch Hex, Slumber
Feats: Undersized Mount, Extra Hex (Shapeshift)

Familiar should be a Raccoon. Mauler Archetype. You can never change the species, but later, when melee combat is no longer a thing, you could probably swap him for a valet.

So your Raccoon has about 14 str, is a medium creature, bites for 1d6+3. Every round, you use the Slumber Hex on whatever is next to Raccoon (DC 15 and rising fast). The Raccoon then murders it with a 2d6+6 Coup de Grace. The Raccoon has 15 HP and fast healing 1. Buy it some leather armor, and it is probably tougher than the Monk and Ninja. If the firearms rules are in play, by all means, buy your murderous Raccoon a gun. It lacks proficiency, but touch attacks are easy, and you get to smile at the others while your familiar shoots sleeping enemies in the face. Expect your familiar to go down every fight, then get back up when enemies least expect it. Alternately, swap fast healing 1 for Stone which gives DR 5 Adamantine to the raccoon.

If forced into combat, Shapeshift into a Tabaxi. That gives you move 40, Claw, Claw Bite attack routine for 1d4, 1d4, 1d3 with 17 str. You and your pet both have darkvision, and scent (while shapeshifted) so blocking vision via obscuring mist or similar will sometimes be helpful.

Bonuses: Your Familiar has a climb speed. Watch the Monk and ninja feel all superior about climbing walls, then ride straight up them without making a roll.
You still have all your spells, and 4 skill points/level for utility.

Your level 4 hex is evil eye, followed by chant, then misfortune. Then you can ride your familiar around the battlefield, while dropping a hex or spell and chanting every round.

[Ellowryn]

Actually that familiar has 19 Str, +1 from Increased Strength, +2 from Battle Form, and +8 form advancing from Tiny to Medium (in addition to -4 Dex, +2 Con).

[Egali]

OP, In your face, got it.

L3 Dwarf Shaman (Life)
Str 15
Dex 15
Con 19
Int 10
Wis 19
Cha 9
Avg HP at level 3, 31

Hex: Witch Hex, Slumber
Feats: Undersized Mount, Extra Hex (Shapeshift)

Familiar should be a Raccoon. Mauler Archetype. You can never change the species, but later, when melee combat is no longer a thing, you could probably swap him for a valet.

So your Raccoon has about 14 str, is a medium creature, bites for 1d6+3. Every round, you use the Slumber Hex on whatever is next to Raccoon (DC 15 and rising fast). The Raccoon then murders it with a 2d6+6 Coup de Grace. The Raccoon has 15 HP and fast healing 1. Buy it some leather armor, and it is probably tougher than the Monk and Ninja. If the firearms rules are in play, by all means, buy your murderous Raccoon a gun. It lacks proficiency, but touch attacks are easy, and you get to smile at the others while your familiar shoots sleeping enemies in the face. Expect your familiar to go down every fight, then get back up when enemies least expect it. Alternately, swap fast healing 1 for Stone which gives DR 5 Adamantine to the raccoon.

If forced into combat, Shapeshift into a Tabaxi. That gives you move 40, Claw, Claw Bite attack routine for 1d4, 1d4, 1d3 with 17 str. You and your pet both have darkvision, and scent (while shapeshifted) so blocking vision via obscuring mist or similar will sometimes be helpful.

Bonuses: Your Familiar has a climb speed. Watch the Monk and ninja feel all superior about climbing walls, then ride straight up them without making a roll.
You still have all your spells, and 4 skill points/level for utility.

Your level 4 hex is evil eye, followed by chant, then misfortune. Then you can ride your familiar around the battlefield, while dropping a hex or spell and chanting every round.
No firearms are allowed for this adventure and are GM is a big "Realistic" roleplayer when it comes to story. So a raccoon that can shoot a gun or wield any kind of weapon is going to be shot down. (no pun intended)

[Thealtruistorc]

No firearms are allowed for this adventure and are GM is a big "Realistic" roleplayer when it comes to story. So a raccoon that can shoot a gun or wield any kind of weapon is going to be shot down. (no pun intended)

So just have the bite attack ****-de-grace those suckers. When you can summon something that your dm dubs "realistic", toss that sucker a pickaxe and aim it towards the nearest fool taking a snooze.

If you want to be really evil, give the guy an item of ghost sound (or just take the spell) and use it as an excuse to blair your obnoxious mixtape in combat.

[legomaster00156]

No firearms are allowed for this adventure and are GM is a big "Realistic" roleplayer when it comes to story. So a raccoon that can shoot a gun or wield any kind of weapon is going to be shot down. (no pun intended)
You mean to say that this guy (http://marvel.com/universe/Rocket_Raccoon) isn't realistic?

[Snowbluff]

Or you could take a non-passive-aggressive route and explain to him that the Unchained Monk is, in fact, not overpowered. It's a good class, and much better than the core Monk, but come on. Better than a Wizard?
If people take your advice, I wouldn't have anyone to give advice to. :smallfrown:

So Im on the paizo forums and people are suggesting going synthesis summoner or master summoner. Is that an idea and just use wands for healing the group?

Summoners can cast Infernal Healing, which is pretty good at low levels. Of course, backing it up with a wand is always good.

[Tuvarkz]

So Im on the paizo forums and people are suggesting going synthesis summoner or master summoner. Is that an idea and just use wands for healing the group?

With your stats, Synthesist is a bit of a waste-Master summoner does work quite well instead.
The thing about Synthesist overall is that in mid to high OP it's actually the most balanced of summoner archetypes, as it does not break the action economy unlike all the others, while Master Summoner does the opposite by spamming powerful minions all around; which causes the reason why Synthesist is banned in PFS: in low OP (Namely when fullcasters don't know how to use their tools right) it's far too strong.

[Spore]

Have fun with your reputation as the Munchkin then. No really, as stated in another thread play something that is insanely simple with as few source books as possible. A druid comes to mind. Full Casting, good melee capability, casting in animal form with a feat from the CRB and the possibility to add summons to your otherwise excellent performance. Oh, and you can heal right off the bat with a Wand of CLW.

If the DM states you are overpowered just claim: "I kept myself from every other source book other than the CRB. What do you want from me?" No passive-aggressive comments. Just repeated mauling of his encounters with a pouncing tiger druid.

[Korahir]

Have fun with your reputation as the Munchkin then. No really, as stated in another thread play something that is insanely simple with as few source books as possible. A druid comes to mind. Full Casting, good melee capability, casting in animal form with a feat from the CRB and the possibility to add summons to your otherwise excellent performance. Oh, and you can heal right off the bat with a Wand of CLW.

If the DM states you are overpowered just claim: "I kept myself from every other source book other than the CRB. What do you want from me?" No passive-aggressive comments. Just repeated mauling of his encounters with a pouncing tiger druid.

This a thousand times. Players start to understand the inherent flaws of the CRB best, when you play CRB only. Play a Druid, Wizard or Cleric. It shouldn't be hard to outshine a monk and ninja in every aspect except maybe skill checks.

[Florian]

As should be obvious by my previous statements, I pretty much second that.
Optimization has a bad reputation and picking one of the more extreme builds will only be seen as abarsive behaviour, further deepening the divide.
Mostly, I guess that's based on going deeper into the rules, finding more and more obscure solutions that fellow players simply lack the necessary system mastery to even comprehend, so it practically will look like you play a different game.

Best way to really counter this is by picking something with a naturally high ceiling, using plain and simple tactics that are effective but easily explained and, more important, chosing tactics in a way that your fellow players will want to rely on you doing it, as it empowers them as well.

Basic T1 classes like the druid have been proposed, as well as the warpriest, now let me propose the Skald and we'll see if anyone freaks out when they're the ones proffiting from it.

Take good care to actually roleplay the character in a way fitting to this AP, show them that the Stormwind Fallacy is plain wrong and see if you can get them interested in gow you did it.

[Egali]

Its settled. Lets build a core character that has support powers as well as being able to hold his own in a fight if everyone else is dead. I do prefer being close but I am ok with sitting back and doing lots of damage while the monk and ninja get their faces beat in. So we know the rolls that I got came out to be 17,17,15,15,11,10. Rules that I know of from my DM so far are: No crazy races, and no firearms. We are starting at level 3 with 3000g.

Lets get to it guys. Lets make a very well optimized, simple character to show them that no one class is way overpowered (well at least the monk isnt lol)

[elonin]

Does this group understand the game and just prefer a lower power level? Or do they really not understand relative optimization? Either way shoving an overpowered build is just going to antagonize them. One thing you can do is offer to let them play the classes they suggest while you play the wizard and optimize it to a mid level. Handled correctly this could change their minds.

[Spore]

Str 19 (+1 on 4) Dex 15 Con 17 Int 11 Wis 15 Cha 10 Human Druid using a Shillelagh (other than that a greatclub) and a Great Cat Animal Companion (Tiger).

Skills: Handle Animal (to train your AC), Perception, Knowledge (Nature) (you can only pick animals for wild shape you know of)

Feats:
Human: Toughness (as well as favored class into HP because some wildshapes tank your AC way down)
1. Combat Casting (you go into melee but are also the only caster in the group)
3. Power Attack
(5. Natural Spell)

Feats on the Animal Companion:
1. Light Armor Proficiency
2. Toughness
(5. Weapon Focus (Claw))
Normally I would advise for the first point into Int 3 to allow ALL feats on the cat but since your DM is so "realistic", keep it on Con to get your tankyness up.

Str 10 Dex 17 Con 15 Int 15 Wis 19 (+1 on 4) Cha 11 Human Druid using a Shillelagh (other than that a greatclub) with the Weather Domain.

Skills: Handle Animal (to push your summoned Animals to to things they are not trained in), Perception, Knowledge (Nature) (you can only pick animals for wild shape you know of), Spellcraft, Fly with dips into Swim, Climb and Knowledge (Geography). Get favored class bonus into skills for 6 skill points/level.

Feats:
Human:Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1. Augment Summoning
3. Toughness
(5. Natural Spell -> generally casting spells as the smallest bird/air elemental available)

Prepare control and utility spells along with very few blasts (one casting of Call Lightning can last you an entire battle if you have to save spells).


1. A fully charged wand of Cure Light Wounds: 750g (fluff it as a parting gift from your druid master/circle to keep you safe; probably in the optics of a tree branch that is still growing)
2. Leather Armor: 10g
3. Great Club: free
4. +1 Darkwood Breastplate: 1.650 (save up for the Wild enchantment that grants the Armor Bonus in Beastshape too)
(5. Leather Armor for your medium sized animal: 20g)


I prefer the caster variant in your group setup although it could be hard to compare a full caster to a melee character for someone not proficient with the system.

[(Un)Inspired]

Its settled. Lets build a core character that has support powers as well as being able to hold his own in a fight if everyone else is dead. I do prefer being close but I am ok with sitting back and doing lots of damage while the monk and ninja get their faces beat in. So we know the rolls that I got came out to be 17,17,15,15,11,10. Rules that I know of from my DM so far are: No crazy races, and no firearms. We are starting at level 3 with 3000g.

Lets get to it guys. Lets make a very well optimized, simple character to show them that no one class is way overpowered (well at least the monk isnt lol)

I think you should go with Human as your race. As others have said, make your build as deceptively simple as possible. Your DM is already banning thing left and right. You want to show him that there are classes more powerful than Monk out there so don't include anything that is gonna distract from this core issue.

I think Druid and Wizard are the best two classes for really showing off much more powerful tier 1 classes are then the competition.

With the stats you have you could make a pretty awesome Blood Money Wizard but I think Druid will be other better option at such low levels.

Put your 17s into Str and Wis, your 15s into Dex and Con and your 10 and 11 into Int and Cha. Grab an Allosaurus for your AC.
Start of BFCing the combat into whatever shape will win your battles the fastest with Entaggle. You're Low enough level that most combat will be on the ground so you should always stay in the air with Air Step. If you absolutely need to do damage yourself use Produce Flame and SNA but your Allosaurus should tear people apart in melee (don't forget to hit it with magic fang)

That 17 is on Str so that you'll be able to ruin people with Wildshape when you get it. I'm partial to both Squid and Giant Squid+Sky Swim.

[Florian]

Knowing this AP a bit, I throw a few things into the ring, for your considerations:

1 - You always have 4 weakly designed NPC availlable, that you can talk into going with you (Bard, Cleric, Ranger, Rogue)
>> They have quests attached and can give boni.
2 - You find 4 more NPC to accompany you and these are designed to work well with the Leadership feat.
>> Ask for Leadership.
3 - Shopping for gear will be a problem, especially if the gm is a stickler for availlability rules. It's a travelling adventure, you can only stop when you reach town.
>> Plan gear independent builds.
4 - There're some crazy good magic items and armour, vut mostly based on asian weapon, especially Katana, Nodachi and Naginata.
5 - You'll hit the language barrier sooner or later. Linguistics is not wasted here.
>> They don't speak your regular Common in Minkai
6 - It's a campaign feature that teleport and co. will get shafted

[stanprollyright]

I second all those that have suggested being a human druid. Get a big cat animal companion, as it's one of the best damage dealers and is also a "stereotypical" choice. If you get a dinosaur, the DM can easily say that dinosaurs aren't realistic or that its OP because its a dinosaur. But no, get a tiger and let it murder while you stand back and win with spells. And as soon as you get wildshape, cast shillelagh, turn into an ape, and hit stuff really hard, just to prove a point.

[Florian]

Let's say: Male Human (Tien-Minh) Druid.
Traits: Younger Sibbling (Ameiko) a +1 Will, then something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill.
(You want to get your Relationship Score up. The boon is great!)

Important Skills:
Knowledge: Nature - Comes up often, will be part of an item quest.
Knowledge: The Planes - Important to identify the Oni, will be important to gain knowledge on the Kami
Survival - Comes up pretty often
Handle Animal - Will be usefull when the Caravan rules are used, also for your AC.
Linguistics: One Point to learn Tian.

FCB: 1 Point to Skills, rest to hp.

For feats I'd do it a bit differently and seemingly counterproductive, but you will want to get your hands on the two Naginatas, so Get the Proficiency for it and Combat Reflexes, the rest the usual Augmented Summoning and Natural Spell stuff. I'd skip Toughness because you have a bard along.

Pet: White Tiger.

Addendum: It may seem strange that I keep mentioning certain weapons. Stuff in this AP is all about the Divine Mandate to Rule and some thingies you find are connected to it and you'll find them usefull in the later part of the game. So learn to use them. The Ninja comes with one proficiency, Shalelu can use the other item, the rest... well...

[Egali]

Let's say: Male Human (Tien-Minh) Druid.
Traits: Younger Sibbling (Ameiko) a +1 Will, then something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill.
(You want to get your Relationship Score up. The boon is great!)

Important Skills:
Knowledge: Nature - Comes up often, will be part of an item quest.
Knowledge: The Planes - Important to identify the Oni, will be important to gain knowledge on the Kami
Survival - Comes up pretty often
Handle Animal - Will be usefull when the Caravan rules are used, also for your AC.
Linguistics: One Point to learn Tian.

FCB: 1 Point to Skills, rest to hp.

For feats I'd do it a bit differently and seemingly counterproductive, but you will want to get your hands on the two Naginatas, so Get the Proficiency for it and Combat Reflexes, the rest the usual Augmented Summoning and Natural Spell stuff. I'd skip Toughness because you have a bard along.

Pet: White Tiger.

Addendum: It may seem strange that I keep mentioning certain weapons. Stuff in this AP is all about the Divine Mandate to Rule and some thingies you find are connected to it and you'll find them usefull in the later part of the game. So learn to use them. The Ninja comes with one proficiency, Shalelu can use the other item, the rest... well...

I never played druid so this will be a first for me. Why is augmented summoning important? What spells are good for a druid? How does a druid play?

[Spore]

I never played druid so this will be a first for me. Why is augmented summoning important?

You can spontaneously convert every spell you have into a Summon Nature's Ally spell. Augment Summoning gives +4 Str (giving your summon +2 on hit and on damage for every natural attack, or +3 if the creature only has one natural attack) and +4 Con, increasing its tankyness (known as ablative hit points).


What spells are good for a druid? How does a druid play?

Generally I feel like a druid is the king of battlefield control. It's spells usually last quite long, change your environment (Entangle creates hindering vines, Spike Growth makes an area impassible for HOURS, Transform Rock to Mud can cost an entire army DAYS to overcome) and use the elements to your advantage (Control Winds, Call Lightning, Produce Flame, Create Water etc. etc.) and they summon animals, fey and giants to do their bidding.

And they should use this to their advantage because under the three prepared casters in the CRB, their spell list is the poorest. Their summons are inferior to the Summon Ally spells of Clerics and Wizards, their control spells are usually bound to SOME kind of natural matter or basis (Entangle in a military basis with Dwarven masonry? Not happening) and their blasts are usually higher level and/or less impactful than Wizards (Fireball is 3rd level, doing Level times d6 damage, Flamestrike is 4th level, smaller area and identical damage, only advantage is the possibility to blast fire immune enemies).

However their nonspell utility is far better than Wizards (who essentially just have their school abilities and their familiars) and Clerics (who have melee capability and their healing/damage channel as well as domain powers) while druids can basically transform into most of the creatures that can be found in Beastiary 1-5.

Which brings up another point: Even if you could transform into a Dire Weasel doesn't mean you necessarily should if your DM is so fickle.

[Florian]

I never played druid so this will be a first for me. Why is augmented summoning important? What spells are good for a druid? How does a druid play?

Basics: Druids are full casting level divine casters based on Wis.
They must prepare spells in advance but can (and should) leave slots open to fill later on. One of their class features is the ability to swap a prepared spell for a spell from the Summon Natures Ally line of spells on a 1 to 1 ratio.

That's also where the Augmented Summoning line of spells come in: If you wish to, you can easily swamp the battlefield with critters under your controll. These are pretty weak, but you use Augmented Summoning to give them a basic upgrade.

Besides your basic healing and ailment removing spells, Druids do have a good selection of BFC (Battlefield Control) spells and a smattering of combat spells that people usually find underwhelming, but tend to shine in later levels (Yes, Call Lightning begins to shine when you are an Air Elemental).

A fun part of the class is the ability to wild shape, especially once you can switch to an elemental or when you buy the appropriate item to be a giant. Great all-around utility and unlike the Wizard or Cleric, the Natural Spell feat lets you keep on casting in that form without problems.

As for more specific tipps on spells, this, as usual, hinges a bit on what sources are allowed.

For example, a wand of CLW has been mentioned before, I add a wand of Goodberries to the list.

Level 1 spells: Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle or Obscuring Mist for BFC.
Level 2 spells: Lesser Restoration and Summon Swam.

As for how the class plays, now that's a hard one.
You're pretty much on top of the economy of actions, as you play two fully fleshed-out characters right from the start, your caster and a melee pet. Your ability to transform for cheap lets you react to the more difficult enemies, like flyers or things with elemental vulnerabilities with ease.
Having to prepare your cures, restoration and such in advance should make you shy at full out blasting, though.

At lower levels, you'll be forced to be a bit of a switch hitter.
Example: Start each day by burning 4 to 6 charges from your wand of Goodberry to have up to 8 points of backup healing for every pc and npc in the group. Hand the berries around so everyone can do his own healing. Remember to use up your wand before you reach the artic circle, as it'll het useless there.

Basic in combat tactic would look a bit like this: Always team up your tiger with the ninja to provide and benefit from flanking. If need be, use your tiger to trigger AoOs instead of the other player characters. You can replace your pet, but character death is annoying.
At lower levels, try using a reach weapon and position yourself to dish out some AoOs. Cast Flaming Sphere and use your move action to reposition it. Have another player herd enemies towards your AoO zone.

Beginning at mid levels, some of these things will get nearly rediculous. Most of your good damging spells are rounds/lvl, your summons reached to point to get more critters with pounce and your wild shape stacks with everything.

[Egali]

Ok to recap we have...

Lv 3 Human Druid (no archtype)
Stats: Str (17) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)

Feats (3 total) : Augment Summons, Weapon Proficiency (Naginata), Combat Reflexes

Skills: Handle Animal, Knowledge (Plane, Nature), Survival, Linguistic

Traits: Younger Sibbling (Ameiko), something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill

Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration

Animal Companion: White Tiger or Allosaurus if allowed

Weapon: Naganata?

Armor: ?

Gear: Wand of CLW and/or Wand of Goodberries

Need help with armor choice and any other gear I might need. Now my understanding is that I am a prepared caster so I prepare the spells from my list but I can leave some open so that I can cast Natures ally correct? Other then that Do I sit back and cast/use range weapons or use the naganata up close with my Animal Companion? Also do I get armor for animal companion? How shouls I build the Animal Companion?

[Florian]

Hm, ok. It works like this:
You can prepare all your spells en bloc at the beginning of the day. If you leave spell slots open, you can always, whenever you want, do a "slow" version of preparation and pick any spell from the druid list to prepare right now for the open slot. It takes time, yes, but it gibes you a pretty good amount of flexibility.

Swapping spells or open spell Slots for summons can be done spontaneously and you simply act as if you used that slot for the day. That's the beauty and real power there.

For the stats, remeber that you still have your +2 human bonus to distribute.

As for feats, Spell Focus: Conjuration is the prerequisite for Augmented Summoning. Pick that. Natural Spell for 5th, Augmented Summoning for 7th, when it becomes more relevant.

As for the animal companion, a blanked answer will be a little bit tough, as you know your gm and know how he reacts. For example, you could chose Light Armour Proficiency as a feat, but that doesn't help if your gm is against it. It's also common to raise your companions Int score to 3 to access all possible feats, but again, you must provide a bit of feedback on how you think your gm will react to that.

[Egali]

With being a druid he would be ok with the int going to 3 and having armor on it. IDK about the dinosaur but if I go tiger what should i get on it? Also I do not see tiger listed in d20pfsrd page as a choice for AC

[Egali]

Also what Alignment is a good pick. Does it matter. (cant be evil of course)

[Spore]

With being a druid he would be ok with the int going to 3 and having armor on it. IDK about the dinosaur but if I go tiger what should i get on it? Also I do not see tiger listed in d20pfsrd page as a choice for AC

Tiger is "Cat, Large". You should pick a certain type of great cat not to confuse your DM.


Also what Alignment is a good pick. Does it matter. (cant be evil of course)

Not really, but if you go true neutral (Neutral) in the start, the DM can shift your alignment once without it doing anything to you.

[Egali]

Tiger is "Cat, Large". You should pick a certain type of great cat not to confuse your DM.



Not really, but if you go true neutral (Neutral) in the start, the DM can shift your alignment once without it doing anything to you.

Now if my DM allows the Allosaurus should I go with that instead?

[stanprollyright]

Now if my DM allows the Allosaurus should I go with that instead?

No. Big cats do just as much damage. And again, you don't want your DM to say that you're character is OP because "dinosaurs are OP."

Also, do not get proficiency with the Naginata unless you already have one in your possession. That's super hardcore metagaming.

[Florian]

Also what Alignment is a good pick. Does it matter. (cant be evil of course)

Druids have an alignment restriction. Part of their alignment must be Neutral, so N, NG, CN and so on.

Edit: Download and read the Players Guide to the AP. Its free and it help you embed some of the needed crunch with the fluff.

@stanprollyright:

Normally, I'd aggree with you. But look into the Players Guide to this AP and see that you're reffered to Ultimate Combat for asia-themed classes and weapons.
And look, there's already an katana-wielding ninja.

Also, look at the Campaign Trait. It's picked so that the character already has an half-tian-minh background and comes from an ancient samurai clan

(Personal nitpicking: After all these years I'm still wondering why they didn't make Ameiko into a Samurai(ronin)/Bard. Is it because she had those stats back in RotRL? It vexed me that she can't even wield her families ancestral weapons when those are found)

[stanprollyright]

Finding a justification does not make it any less meta. You're still only getting the proficiency because of foreknowledge of the AP and making it fit afterward. Besides, why would a full-classed druid want that? Most of the time you'll be casting or wild-shaped, and for the few times you use an actual weapon you've got Shillelagh. What good is an ancestral weapon that spends most of its time melded into your animal form? It would make more sense for a martial class who might want an exotic weapon anyway.

It's ultimately up to the DM what weapon it is and whether or not the NPCs are proficient with it. He could easily make it a katana and give it to the Ninja, or say that Ameiko is proficient already or that she practices with it on the road and gains EWP for free.

[Egali]

Finding a justification does not make it any less meta. You're still only getting the proficiency because of foreknowledge of the AP and making it fit afterward. Besides, why would a full-classed druid want that? Most of the time you'll be casting or wild-shaped, and for the few times you use an actual weapon you've got Shillelagh. What good is an ancestral weapon that spends most of its time melded into your animal form? It would make more sense for a martial class who might want an exotic weapon anyway.

It's ultimately up to the DM what weapon it is and whether or not the NPCs are proficient with it. He could easily make it a katana and give it to the Ninja, or say that Ameiko is proficient already or that she practices with it on the road and gains EWP for free.

Every interesting, I have never played the adventure or a druid. So what would be a good weapon for me to use until I can start to beast shape. Also what armor would you recommend? If I am not taking a feat to be able to you a naganata, that leaves me with some options im assuming. What feats would you suggest?

[Florian]

@stanprollyright:

I'm not really disagreeing with you. The recommendation _is_ based on having run that particular AP twice and knowing the shortcomings as well as the pacing.
On the other hand, the players guide to the AP points out that whole stuff, so it shouldn't be considered to be meta at all when you get that knowledge on a silver plater.

@Egali:

Druids have access to a spell called Shillelagh. It can be used on a basic club or quarterstaff and is quite good. A club costs you next to nothing and it must be nonmagical for the spell to work, so pack a masterwork one.
Basic 1H weapon is mostly the Scimitar, basic 2H weapon the Spear (Reach, good for Combat Reflexes), basic ranged should be a sling.
Armour should be Lamellar (Horn) and a large wooden shield.

Edit: To explain something that has been discussed earlier: When you wildshape, all your gear gets absorbed into your new form, unless you drop it first and pick it up after the transformation. Shillelagh is one of these cases where you drop your club, switch to a form that can use weapons, pick up the club and enhance it with the spell. So, spell grows the weapon by two size categories, starting from your current one. Beginning at level 6, you can adopt a large shape, for example an ape, pick up the club, cast the spell and the size increase starts with large...
What stanprollyright forgot to mention, is that what holds true for the club also holds true for other weapons.

At later levels, instead of argueing what form could handle stuff or not, it's a good investment to go for a (Lesser/Greater) Mask of Giants to enhance your wildshaping with.

[stanprollyright]

Every interesting, I have never played the adventure or a druid. So what would be a good weapon for me to use until I can start to beast shape. Also what armor would you recommend? If I am not taking a feat to be able to you a naganata, that leaves me with some options im assuming. What feats would you suggest?

A club or a quarterstaff for Shillelagh, a sling for ranged, and otherwise the scimitar and spear are both good weapons. The best armor you can get in the CRB is Hide, though there are other options in different books. I'm not all that well versed on druidic armors in PF. As far as feats, all the others that have been suggested you can get sooner. So: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack. I also like getting either Scribe Scroll or Craft Wondrous Item on druids because they don't need many feats to function.

@Florian: Fair enough. I just can't shake the feeling that it's cheating somehow to use that knowledge when building a character. I guess if you told a Ranger what favored enemy to expect it wouldn't be too bad...

[Egali]

@stanprollyright:

I'm not really disagreeing with you. The recommendation _is_ based on having run that particular AP twice and knowing the shortcomings as well as the pacing.
On the other hand, the players guide to the AP points out that whole stuff, so it shouldn't be considered to be meta at all when you get that knowledge on a silver plater.

@Egali:

Druids have access to a spell called Shillelagh. It can be used on a basic club or quarterstaff and is quite good. A club costs you next to nothing and it must be nonmagical for the spell to work, so pack a masterwork one.
Basic 1H weapon is mostly the Scimitar, basic 2H weapon the Spear (Reach, good for Combat Reflexes), basic ranged should be a sling.
Armour should be Lamellar (Horn) and a large wooden shield.

Edit: To explain something that has been discussed earlier: When you wildshape, all your gear gets absorbed into your new form, unless you drop it first and pick it up after the transformation. Shillelagh is one of these cases where you drop your club, switch to a form that can use weapons, pick up the club and enhance it with the spell. So, spell grows the weapon by two size categories, starting from your current one. Beginning at level 6, you can adopt a large shape, for example an ape, pick up the club, cast the spell and the size increase starts with large...
What stanprollyright forgot to mention, is that what holds true for the club also holds true for other weapons.

At later levels, instead of argueing what form could handle stuff or not, it's a good investment to go for a (Lesser/Greater) Mask of Giants to enhance your wildshaping with. So if we have a monk and ninja in the group would it even be worth wasting a feat to use a naganata if the shillelagh is going to beef up my staff that much?

[Florian]

Well, Favoured Enemy is actually an good example.
APs like this one run on common themes that will be repeated over and over again because they are the spine of the story.
So it's pretty much the only way to hint at a ranger player what will be usefull and what will see heavy use.

Concerning the weapons, they do make a point to mention over and over again that a samurai fights with three typical weapons, katana, naginata and longbow.

So no, in a very narrowly defined story, I don't consider it cheating to point out what will be usefull for exactly that story and what will be a waste.

I mean, come on, the most common enemy type later on will be evil outsider - oni, some of them with vulnerability to a certain weapon. As a player, you must start with that knowledge, even if it doesn't mean something to you right now.

@Feat Recommendations:
This is a travelling adventure, so crafting will not be possible if the gm is strict about it.

You can always follow up Augmented Summoning with Superior Summoning and your blasting spell do work well with Spell Perfection and Dazing Spell.

[Florian]

Sorry for the double-post..

@Egali:

I don't want to spoiler you on this.
Let me just say that the base assumption in this AP is that you don't have "free shopping" and therefore must do the best with the loot you can get. You find a lot of the three types of samurai weapons I just mentioned, along with some monk stuff.
Now, your monk has the monk stuff covered, your Ninja the Katanas and stuff, your ranger (Shalelu) the bows, that leaves the Naginatas.
Mostly, it's not that stats that matters, but wielding the stuff is tied too quests, locations, events und certain vulnerabilities of creatures. Also, if your gm sticks to it, there's simply nothing else availlable.

Edit: Good night and read you folks in some days. Of to a major beer brewery convention and will be too drunk to post anything meaningful.

[Egali]

Sorry for the double-post..

@Egali:

I don't want to spoiler you on this.
Let me just say that the base assumption in this AP is that you don't have "free shopping" and therefore must do the best with the loot you can get. You find a lot of the three types of samurai weapons I just mentioned, along with some monk stuff.
Now, your monk has the monk stuff covered, your Ninja the Katanas and stuff, your ranger (Shalelu) the bows, that leaves the Naginatas.
Mostly, it's not that stats that matters, but wielding the stuff is tied too quests, locations, events und certain vulnerabilities of creatures. Also, if your gm sticks to it, there's simply nothing else availlable.

Edit: Good night and read you folks in some days. Of to a major beer brewery convention and will be too drunk to post anything meaningful.

Thanks for all your help!

[Florian]

Thanks for all your help!

Good morning.

There's still your question about the animal companion.
It's a bit of personal taste, but I tend to use ACs as mobile debuff bots to soften up enemies first. Using Initmidate to stick the shacken or feightened condition on enemies is nearly always useful.

I tend to start with Intimidating Prowess, Weapon Focus (Bite) and Power Attack.
After Int is up to 3, I tend to pick Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash.
After BAB +6, I tend to pick Disheartening Display and Shatter Defenses.

[Spore]

I feel you need too many ressources to make ACs good at debuffing. Their Intimidate check isn't great, even after you have poured feat after feat on it.

[Egali]

I feel you need too many ressources to make ACs good at debuffing. Their Intimidate check isn't great, even after you have poured feat after feat on it.

What would you recommend for the AC then? I was thinking it would be best to have it charge in first allowing the monk and ninja time to get into flanking positions.

[stanprollyright]

What would you recommend for the AC then? I was thinking it would be best to have it charge in first allowing the monk and ninja time to get into flanking positions.

Big cats are good at that. Grab Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack (claws), Weapon Focus (claws), Combat Reflexes, etc.

[Firest Kathon]

I found Step-Up to be a useful feat on anything that might be in close combat with a caster :).

[Edenbeast]

So my home group talked classes and started on the road to making our characters for the jade regent campaign. I have been denied playing unchained monk because the other 3 people I play with say that the unchained monk is too overpowered compared to the other classes. They even went on to say that it looks more overpowered then a wizard!!! Now this group has never gotten to end game parts of a campaign and not really min-max players. However, I intend to show them what a "Overpowered" class looks like and need your help in doing so. I am fairly new to Pathfinders but I have played in society long enough to see crazy builds that would wipe my friends builds away. So heres the info.

As far as score/attributes go we roll for them. I am rocking with two 17s, two 15s, an 11, and a 10. (17,17,15,15,11,10) I really prefer melee or in your face play style.

Rules are we are not allowed occult or unchained classes. Races are not an issue but must be approved by GM. He is not ok with things normally considered "Evil" and it is probably best to stick with the common races. But if you feel something a little far out there is better then I can bring up the race to him.

We are starting at lv 3 and with 3000g.

Multiclassing is ok.

Last thing, it is going to be just a 3 man campaign for now until we find more people to join us in our area. The other 2 players are going monk and ninja.

And thats it so come on guys lets do this and show these fools what a real "OP" build looks like.

I think you should just drop this idea and build a character that actually contributes to the fun in a shared roleplay experience. This all about you trying to overshadow your friends' pc's, but you're not playing a single-player videogame. People come together to have a good time together. Time to grow up.

[Egali]

I think you should just drop this idea and build a character that actually contributes to the fun in a shared roleplay experience. This all about you trying to overshadow your friends' pc's, but you're not playing a single-player videogame. People come together to have a good time together. Time to grow up. So because you do not agree with something someone is doing, instead of just ignoring it, you have to comment something immature like "Grow up". Please take your own advise. If you can not contribute to the topic at hand, dont put your two cents into it. Im here to optimize a build that will allow our small group to go far into the adventure and to be able to have fun. Why is optimization such a bad thing to so many people?

[Florian]

I feel you need too many ressources to make ACs good at debuffing. Their Intimidate check isn't great, even after you have poured feat after feat on it.

Nah. The DC is pretty flat, being based on 10+HD+Wis mod.
If you switch Cha with Str and take the first size increase into account, you're doing pretty well in that department, interestingly better against tatgets with class levels than against pure bestiary monsters. Cornugon Smash is the real interesting one here, as normal bestiary monster ACs will outlevel a companion and that's a way to keep that in check.

Now, of to sleep, had around 200 beers and 50 whiskeys the last days, feeling like dead and I need a good nights rest.