Way of the Six Gates (Monk tradition)

[cooldes]

When thinking of Media that deals with superhuman, or meta-human powers and power-ups, usually there are different characters with different ability sets. DnD 5e does a good job of covering a lot of bases, but there is one skill-set that I feel it skipped over.

in Most media where there are people with super human powers or abilities, there is at least one person/group with a flat out "Bursty" ability. Meaning an ability that while granting a temporary increase in physical power, causes long term damage to your body, and can only be used in short "bursts". notable examples of this are Kiao-ken/ ssj1 -3 in the DB franchise. The 8 inner gates of the Naruto franchise. The Gears of the One piece franchise. everything ichigo does. etc.

that is the main basis of my archetype. by sacrificing your body(by gaining levels of exhaustion) you can in turn get a brief boost of power. while honing your body to gain this ability and open more gates, you also learn new techniques in the process.

I belived monk to be the perfect fit for this idea do the balancing of it all. for such a short term reward, ending with such a harsh negative effect, I had to chose a class that could function without it. looking at other monk subclasses such as Way of the Shadow, which still functions just fine in combat as a normal monk, I could see that monks are actually just "good enough" on their own and that the archetypes are just "icing on the cake" so to speak.

let me know what you think please! all constructive criticism is welcome. thank you for checking out my archetype.

http://docdro.id/jHG4xEm (<-- v1.2. updated version below)

thanks for the feedback everyone :) v1.3 v1.4 --> http://docdro.id/r4q8HKG

[ChocoPuppy]

When it says you gain exhaustion when you open a gate, I'm assuming you mean once the gates reclosed because otherwise it's physically impossible to open the sixth gate due to you immediately dying from exhaustion

[cooldes]

When it says you gain exhaustion when you open a gate, I'm assuming you mean once the gates reclosed because otherwise it's physically impossible to open the sixth gate due to you immediately dying from exhaustion

sorry, yes you are correct. you gain the level(s) of exhaustion after the effect ends. and thank you for alerting me to the fact that i didn't specify !

[L Space]

Really cool concept (I love Rock Lee), but I'm iffy about the 6th gate's abilities. Gaining Enhance Ability and giving Haste to another person doesn't really seem worth the side-effects to me. If anything they should be able to just cast Enhance ability on themselves for a Ki cost at a lower level.

[cooldes]

Really cool concept (I love Rock Lee), but I'm iffy about the 6th gate's abilities. Gaining Enhance Ability and giving Haste to another person doesn't really seem worth the side-effects to me. If anything they should be able to just cast Enhance ability on themselves for a Ki cost at a lower level.

i agree with this, my original idea was to be able to give yourself haste as well. I turned away from this idea though because then you would effectively be able to move to any and every place on the battlefield, do extreme amounts of damage, and have 3 actions and 2 bonus actions. But i DO like the ability to give all of your teammates haste. giving them all an extra action and extra speed brings them a little closer to your extreme level of power, making things a little more equalized instead of you being the only person mattering on the battlefield.

also, i'm not sure, but it seems like you read it as only being able to give one teammate haste, but i tried to word is so you can give as many people haste as you can touch(using any action, so free, bonus, normal, re, etc..)

but i do agree that enhance ability is lackluster for death. i'm not sure what to replace it with though. maybe a new technique? i'll give it some thought.

thanks for the feedback by the way! very appreciated

[L Space]

i agree with this, my original idea was to be able to give yourself haste as well. I turned away from this idea though because then you would effectively be able to move to any and every place on the battlefield, do extreme amounts of damage, and have 3 actions and 2 bonus actions. But i DO like the ability to give all of your teammates haste. giving them all an extra action and extra speed brings them a little closer to your extreme level of power, making things a little more equalized instead of you being the only person mattering on the battlefield.

also, i'm not sure, but it seems like you read it as only being able to give one teammate haste, but i tried to word is so you can give as many people haste as you can touch(using any action, so free, bonus, normal, re, etc..)

but i do agree that enhance ability is lackluster for death. i'm not sure what to replace it with though. maybe a new technique? i'll give it some thought.

thanks for the feedback by the way! very appreciated

Yea, I originally wondered why there was no self-haste, but realized it kind of already does with a lot of the Gates. And I did misread the fact that you can boost multiple people. I think a part of it was that after so much focus on boosting yourself, being able to boost others came a little out of left field.

Enhance Ability isn't really a bad ability, but I just wasn't sure if it was enough. You could also have them regain all of their Ki points or gain some KI regen ability, that may be fitting.

I hope that I'm not coming across as too critical or overfamiliar with my advice, as I do really like the build.

[Pyon]

I'm with L Space in the idea that 6th gate should be a more powerful ability. I mean you die after losing it, and then have a chance of never being able to use it again if your character gets revived. Why not giving it some super huge mega blast? The ability to use all your Ki and HP into pure damage as a last ditch move. After that your character automatically ends the gate and dies!!

[ChocoPuppy]

Also maybe add a dexterity or dodging ability in there because otherwise you could get easily get destroyed

[cooldes]

Yea, I originally wondered why there was no self-haste, but realized it kind of already does with a lot of the Gates. And I did misread the fact that you can boost multiple people. I think a part of it was that after so much focus on boosting yourself, being able to boost others came a little out of left field.

Enhance Ability isn't really a bad ability, but I just wasn't sure if it was enough. You could also have them regain all of their Ki points or gain some KI regen ability, that may be fitting.

I hope that I'm not coming across as too critical or overfamiliar with my advice, as I do really like the build.

Lol no man, it's fine, criticism is what i need to finely tune and finish the build.

A little insight as to why i originally made 6th gate a team Buff instead of some other thing. 1 reason was that dying after use reminded me of a Pathfinder class that revives all of their dead teamates, but then dies doing so. i thought if res-ing your whole team is worth death, then Buffing the whole team was about equal. 2nd reason was just because i was reminded of naruto sharing his fox-chakara the the team during the big fight. The Last reason i made it a team-buff, is so NPCs and Bosses don't become "Suicide Bombers". if the last ability is like a final kamahameha, then bosses and enemies would just sacrifice their lives to kill the Players.


I'm with L Space in the idea that 6th gate should be a more powerful ability. I mean you die after losing it, and then have a chance of never being able to use it again if your character gets revived. Why not giving it some super huge mega blast? The ability to use all your Ki and HP into pure damage as a last ditch move. After that your character automatically ends the gate and dies!!

Thanks for the feed back! i agree, i do think 6th gate is a little lacking currently. Unfortunately, a big final ki blast would be unbalanced due do NPCs, enemies, and even Bosses that may use the archetype in certain campaigns.
i am thinking of how to up the power level of it a bit more. i may even allow the user give themself haste as well

[cooldes]

Also maybe add a dexterity or dodging ability in there because otherwise you could get easily get destroyed

thanks a bunch for the feedback,
i definitely thought about it, but one of the few things balancing the class with the insane damage and speed increase is the fact that there is no defensive increase as well, so no AC or evasion increase currently. Monks already passively get the "Evasion" ability for dex saves, they also get "patient defense" to dodge as a bonus for just 1 ki.

[ChocoPuppy]

Well I mean since the 6th gate is probably going to be used as a last resort effect like the wish (Alternatively you could use it as you gain an immense power around the world around you and gain the ability to have a one use wish spell, y'know going godmode or whatever) that it should at least refill your health when you reach 6th because considering you're probably getting steamrolled, you'd probably only have a small and then that defeats the point of going your ultimate form if you're dead

[cooldes]

Well I mean since the 6th gate is probably going to be used as a last resort effect like the wish (Alternatively you could use it as you gain an immense power around the world around you and gain the ability to have a one use wish spell, y'know going godmode or whatever) that it should at least refill your health when you reach 6th because considering you're probably getting steamrolled, you'd probably only have a small and then that defeats the point of going your ultimate form if you're dead

i can see that. maybe when you enter the 6th gate, you gain temp hp = the difference in your current and hit point maximum. this would effectively allow you to take the same amount of damage as being at max, but without actually healing you.

[L Space]

Lol no man, it's fine, criticism is what i need to finely tune and finish the build.

A little insight as to why i originally made 6th gate a team Buff instead of some other thing. 1 reason was that dying after use reminded me of a Pathfinder class that revives all of their dead teamates, but then dies doing so. i thought if res-ing your whole team is worth death, then Buffing the whole team was about equal. 2nd reason was just because i was reminded of naruto sharing his fox-chakara the the team during the big fight. The Last reason i made it a team-buff, is so NPCs and Bosses don't become "Suicide Bombers". if the last ability is like a final kamahameha, then bosses and enemies would just sacrifice their lives to kill the Players.
Ok, good to hear. Still somewhat new to the boards and didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

Gotcha, I was thinking of it strictly from a PC standpoint and not as being used by enemies. Also didn't even consider Naruto using his chakra that way, as my first thought was of Rock Lee and was too focused on that :smallbiggrin:.


i can see that. maybe when you enter the 6th gate, you gain temp hp = the difference in your current and hit point maximum. this would effectively allow you to take the same amount of damage as being at max, but without actually healing you.

That would work well and is in line with the source material. When Rock Lee opens the gates or Goku uses Kaoiken they don't look like they're being healed, but they are able to ignore all of their previous injuries.

[ChocoPuppy]

And actually perhaps also have it so their current Ki pool is replaced by a temp pool of Ki points that dissapears once they go out of the form (and die obviously) because once again they'd probably be pretty low on Ki points when they go the form so allowing them to let out another huge flurry of attacks would be neat

[cooldes]

That would work well and is in line with the source material. When Rock Lee opens the gates or Goku uses Kaoiken they don't look like they're being healed, but they are able to ignore all of their previous injuries.


And actually perhaps also have it so their current Ki pool is replaced by a temp pool of Ki points that dissapears once they go out of the form (and die obviously) because once again they'd probably be pretty low on Ki points when they go the form so allowing them to let out another huge flurry of attacks would be neat

ok so as of right now, i have 6th gate as:
haste to anyone you touch(including self), regain temp HP = to difference in current HP and HP maximum, & you regain all expended ki points. thoughts?

[cooldes]

also, has anyone noticed the "Primary lotus" combo in the archetype?

by opening 2nd gate you are able to launch opponents into the sky
with 1st gate open you can double jump
at 6th level you're able to grapple falling enemies and transfer both fall damages to them.

[Greased Up Fox]

Sounds like a lot of fun, nice work.

[L Space]

also, has anyone noticed the "Primary lotus" combo in the archetype?

by opening 2nd gate you are able to launch opponents into the sky
with 1st gate open you can double jump
at 6th level you're able to grapple falling enemies and transfer both fall damages to them.

I actually didn't notice that, but kudos on adding that in, very nice touch.

[cooldes]

Sounds like a lot of fun, nice work.


I actually didn't notice that, but kudos on adding that in, very nice touch.

thanks! means a lot to me :)

[cooldes]

Thanks for the help and feedback so far everyone!
Here's an updated version of the archetype so far
http://docdro.id/r4q8HKG
i fixed the exhaustion issue, so now it says that they go into effect After the gates are closed. I also fixed the 6th gate by upping the power level.
Currently it replenishes you ki points, Provides you enough temp hp to be at max hp, and allows you to touch as many people(including self now) giving them haste.
Also Explained that opening new gates you still have benefits of previous gates