Contingency Help

[glitterbaby]

I'm rather newby when it comes to playing my wizard. I've found I don't have to try too hard to be effective in the party so I generally don't. Unfortunately our enemies are starting to throw around 9ths (granted they're using Miracle to cast a "heightened" Destruction) and they're quite powerful in general. What kinds of spells and what conditions for those spells would be good to couple with Contingency?

Additionally if anyone has any advice in general for defense that'd also be great. I know Contingency is one of the really nice defensive spells because you don't have to waste an action on it.

We're 16th level. To get a scope of the op-level, my current defensive spells I usually have active are: Protection from Arrows, Anticipate Teleport, Primal Instincts (going first is sorta defensive?), Energy Absorption, and Mind Blank. In some fights our "Paladin" will give me a Favor of the Martyr so I can Celerity at my whims. I'm usually using my Celerities to interrupt powerful enemy spells with an offensive spell (blast/bfc/etc).

I just recently ate a Destruction spell after using Celerity to blast the two enemy 20th level Clerics that were on the edge only to have them come back with a Pact of Return with nothing left to protect me :smallfrown: so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[AvatarVecna]

Contingency is wonderfully useful, but the trick is making it extremely versatile: having a spell cast on your behalf without requiring an action is great, but something like Meteor Swarm is less useful than something like Bestow Curse, because one of those things has multiple potential applications. When picking your Contingency, you have to keep in mind the variety of situations that could trigger it, and either pick a spell that's incredibly versatile, or pick a trigger that's fairly specific.

As far as suggestions go, I recommend Celerity (for giving you a sort-of free action), as well as Polymorph (which is incredibly versatile, especially at your level). If you don't have a single spell prepared that's helpful in your trigger situation, Celerity isn't useful; if you can't find a single 16 HD creature that has the immunity/mobility/offense/defense/utility you're looking for ATM, Polymorph isn't very useful either.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Most of the spells you've listed are long-term buffs. There's no point putting them in a Contingency if you can just cast them at the start of the day.

Celerity is probably the most useful. You only get one Contingency, and "you get a standard action" can solve a lot of problems when you're a wizard. The only problem is getting the trigger conditions right, and if you've already used a Celerity and are still dazed it isn't going to help you.

The other option are various defensive spells. "When i'm targeted by X, cast...". Freedom of Movement, Resilient Sphere, Protection from Evil, and similar spells are all valid options, if you know in advance that you're facing enemies with those attacks or are patching a particular vulnerability in your immunities.
Basically defensive spells that have short durations.

Resilient Sphere is pretty good as an all-round defense, but it's going to require a standard action to dismiss it if you want to continue attacking after because it blocks your LoE.

[glitterbaby]

Oh my apologies, the Polymorph line is banned (Alter Self, Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph, PaO). I swear I meant to include it in my initial post. Baleful Polymorph and the specific-form polymorphs (Trollshape, Displacer Form, etc) are allowed. The Craft Contingent Spell feat is also banned. We're allowed only one Contingency. I believe that's all the houserules that would make a difference in spell selection. Sorry for the confusion.

[AvatarVecna]

Oh my apologies, the Polymorph line is banned (Alter Self, Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph, PaO). I swear I meant to include it in my initial post. Baleful Polymorph and the specific-form polymorphs (Trollshape, Displacer Form, etc) are allowed. The Craft Contingent Spell feat is also banned. We're allowed only one Contingency. I believe that's all the houserules that would make a difference in spell selection. Sorry for the confusion.

Curses! Although I can understand why. Hrm...

[Âmesang]

This thread is relevant to my interests since my sorceress just reached 15th-level and can now utilize Use Magic Device to set up a contingent revivify upon herself; though that would work best if her quasit familiar doesn't fail at using a wand of cure critical wounds or some such to augment it.

I mean it's best to keep her from dying, period, but while there are many different ways of dying, there's really one kind of "death." Figured this would be a good catch-all until I can think of something better to use.

[ryu]

Oh my apologies, the Polymorph line is banned (Alter Self, Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph, PaO). I swear I meant to include it in my initial post. Baleful Polymorph and the specific-form polymorphs (Trollshape, Displacer Form, etc) are allowed. The Craft Contingent Spell feat is also banned. We're allowed only one Contingency. I believe that's all the houserules that would make a difference in spell selection. Sorry for the confusion.

Is planar binding kosher? Are there any limitations on minion creation in general? How knowledgeable are you when it comes to getting abilities from summoned critters?

[glitterbaby]

Is planar binding kosher? Are there any limitations on minion creation in general? How knowledgeable are you when it comes to getting abilities from summoned critters?

Planar Binding has the all-clear. We're fighting Balors and CL 20 Clerics so nobody is really going to bat an eye at a Pit Fiend. I don't think I'd want to snag a Pit Fiend just because there is a VoP Exalted Cleric and an Exalted Druid in the party (they're the two lower op people). I'd say I'm... decent. I've read through Mastering the Malconvoker quite a few times and I'm not afraid of bookkeeping.

As for how many books I would have thrown at me, I can offer a quick anecdote. Until recently my wizard owed quite a large debt to the dwarf king, a debt he borrowed to help make our Dawnblade into a half-clay-golem and to make his spellbook really nice. A half serious plan was thought up to Planar Bind in an Efreeti, buff up the cha check, and then Wish for an arcane scroll of Genesis to make a demiplane out of pure platinum to pay off my debts in it. The DM ruled it didn't work (because Genesis apparently doesn't work that way by RAW) and there was a bit of pressure to not jump down the Efreet Wish rabbit hole. DM might have let it work once but probably no more than that.

[ryu]

Planar Binding has the all-clear. We're fighting Balors and CL 20 Clerics so nobody is really going to bat an eye at a Pit Fiend. I don't think I'd want to snag a Pit Fiend just because there is a VoP Exalted Cleric and an Exalted Druid in the party (they're the two lower op people). I'd say I'm... decent. I've read through Mastering the Malconvoker quite a few times and I'm not afraid of bookkeeping.

As for how many books I would have thrown at me, I can offer a quick anecdote. Until recently my wizard owed quite a large debt to the dwarf king, a debt he borrowed to help make our Dawnblade into a half-clay-golem and to make his spellbook really nice. A half serious plan was thought up to Planar Bind in an Efreeti, buff up the cha check, and then Wish for an arcane scroll of Genesis to make a demiplane out of pure platinum to pay off my debts in it. The DM ruled it didn't work (because Genesis apparently doesn't work that way by RAW) and there was a bit of pressure to not jump down the Efreet Wish rabbit hole. DM might have let it work once but probably no more than that.

Actually I was just gonna recommend getting yourself a nightmare and having it use astral projection on the party for fun and profit. You may want to gain access to a single casting of genesis so you can move your bodies to a private demiplane after casting. One of the best easily obtained defensive measures is to simply make ''death'' only stop you a few rounds.

[ben-zayb]

Planar Binding has the all-clear. We're fighting Balors and CL 20 Clerics so nobody is really going to bat an eye at a Pit Fiend.You don't bind a weak outsider. A Greater PB can bind Planetars (cast as 17th level clerics) or Pseudonatural Black Ethergaunts (cast as 17th level wizards). PB line is versatile in that you can pretty much call a Pseudonatural version of any kind of corporeal creature. That "corporeal bit" limits it somehow. Wu Jens have it easier with the Spirit Binding line, because it's so much easier to turn any kind of creature into a ghost.

[glitterbaby]

You don't bind a weak outsider. A Greater PB can bind Planetars (cast as 17th level clerics) or Pseudonatural Black Ethergaunts (cast as 17th level wizards). PB line is versatile in that you can pretty much call a Pseudonatural version of any kind of corporeal creature. That "corporeal bit" limits it somehow. Wu Jens have it easier with the Spirit Binding line, because it's so much easier to turn any kind of creature into a ghost.

I understand that but at the same time I don't want to out-Cleric our Cleric with one spell. It's not polite.

[ben-zayb]

I understand that but at the same time I don't want to out-Cleric our Cleric with one spell. It's not polite.
How about possibly out-Wizarding yourself (but not quite) with Pseudonatural* Black Ethergaunt instead?


*the one from Complete Arcane

[ryu]

I understand that but at the same time I don't want to out-Cleric our Cleric with one spell. It's not polite.

This is why I recommended nightmare. You wanted a defense that sees effective play at high levels that presumably also helps the party. Free astral projection is about as high as we can go here without entering into territory I'm pretty sure will get you smacked with a book.

[glitterbaby]

Actually I was just gonna recommend getting yourself a nightmare and having it use astral projection on the party for fun and profit. You may want to gain access to a single casting of genesis so you can move your bodies to a private demiplane after casting. One of the best easily obtained defensive measures is to simply make ''death'' only stop you a few rounds.

Oh that's a great idea. I wasn't aware that Astral Projection was available to us. I might have to swindle our two Exalted to working with the bound Evil creature but it's a great suggestion.


How about possibly out-Wizarding yourself (but not quite) with Pseudonatural* Black Ethergaunt instead?


*the one from Complete Arcane

I thought you were talking about the other Pseudonatural. I was sitting here thinking "yeeahhh let's not do that." My group does frown rather heavily on that sort of thing. I'm more looking for help in not dying rather than help in having two of me, one of which has 9ths before anyone else in the party.

[ryu]

This is why the best wizards read whole piles of monster entries. You get sooooooooooooo many good spells earlier than you're supposed to if you know what to summon. Like... Jeez. It's crazy glorious.

[glitterbaby]

This is why I recommended nightmare. You wanted a defense that sees effective play at high levels that presumably also helps the party. Free astral projection is about as high as we can go here without entering into territory I'm pretty sure will get you smacked with a book.

Quick question then about Astral Projection, can it be dispelled? One of our party members is the wielder of a powerful artifact: the Sword of Kas(read plot weapon). It's one of the very few ways one can actually destroy souls and we'll be using it in the final fight with the god Vecna. We aren't going to want to lose the sword by simply getting dispelled and winking out. If we can are there any ways we can prevent it outside of grabbing tons of rings of counterspells?

Edit: Oh, right there at the bottom the spell description it says it can be dispelled. The second question still stands then.

[xyianth]

Just as an FYI, astral projection makes a copy of your worn equipment. If your astral body is dispelled, you wake up with all your gear wherever your real body is. This is why astral projection is one of the three most broken spells in the game. (gate and shapechange being the other two)

[With a box]

This thread is relevant to my interests since my sorceress just reached 15th-level and can now utilize Use Magic Device to set up a contingent revivify upon herself; though that would work best if her quasit familiar doesn't fail at using a wand of cure critical wounds or some such to augment it.

I mean it's best to keep her from dying, period, but while there are many different ways of dying, there's really one kind of "death." Figured this would be a good catch-all until I can think of something better to use.
I think contingent revivify is nearly useless, because it functions like the raise dead, and It means revivify can't save you from death effect, and if you died from hp damage at 16th level, you did something wrong.

[Rubik]

As for how many books I would have thrown at me, I can offer a quick anecdote. Until recently my wizard owed quite a large debt to the dwarf king, a debt he borrowed to help make our Dawnblade into a half-clay-golem and to make his spellbook really nice. A half serious plan was thought up to Planar Bind in an Efreeti, buff up the cha check, and then Wish for an arcane scroll of Genesis to make a demiplane out of pure platinum to pay off my debts in it. The DM ruled it didn't work (because Genesis apparently doesn't work that way by RAW) and there was a bit of pressure to not jump down the Efreet Wish rabbit hole. DM might have let it work once but probably no more than that.That trick sounds familiar for some reason...


Oh that's a great idea. I wasn't aware that Astral Projection was available to us. I might have to swindle our two Exalted to working with the bound Evil creature but it's a great suggestion.I'd suggest Planar Binding a half-celestial half-gold dragon nightmare. Since the nightmare you're binding isn't Evil, they shouldn't have a problem with it. Apply half-gold dragon first to turn it into a dragon, followed by half-celestial to turn it into an outsider, so it can be Planar Bound. Say it's a kirin/qilin and call it a day.


Quick question then about Astral Projection, can it be dispelled? One of our party members is the wielder of a powerful artifact: the Sword of Kas(read plot weapon). It's one of the very few ways one can actually destroy souls and we'll be using it in the final fight with the god Vecna. We aren't going to want to lose the sword by simply getting dispelled and winking out. If we can are there any ways we can prevent it outside of grabbing tons of rings of counterspells?

Edit: Oh, right there at the bottom the spell description it says it can be dispelled. The second question still stands then.The nightmare's ability is (Su), and so it is undispellable. It can be Disjunctioned, but not Dispelled.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I think contingent revivify is nearly useless, because it functions like the raise dead, and It means revivify can't save you from death effect, and if you died from hp damage at 16th level, you did something wrong.

You also did something wrong if you don't have permanent Death Ward in one form or another at that level, so that's not the problem.
I agree that it's not the most optimal use of Contingency, since you probably could have avoided dying in the first place by choosing another spell.
You're also going to be at -1 hp (and without all your buffs), so chances are you're just going to die again.

The general problem with using Contingency for "if i die" stuff is that it should never be triggered. You're better off using it for other conditions so you don't die in the first place, and in the event that you do die anyway you can usually rely on your party to raise you instead of using a very limited resource on something that shouldn't come up.
Optimally you can just hire a Psion that knows Soul Crystal (MoI) and Astral Seed - it can't be dispelled and lets you come back in a safe place instead of the middle of combat.

At level 16 you should have your necessary immunities pretty much covered. Mind Blank and permanent Death Ward (like a Soulfire item) take care of most non-hp causes of death, and if you have a cleric in the party chances are he'll prepare Delay Death if he knows what he's doing.
You can further protect yourself with a wand of Wings of Cover in a wand chamber (making a DC 20 UMD check is pretty trivial at that level, even if you only invest on cross-class rank).

That leaves your contingency free for other stuff - like Celerity. It doesn't matter how often you trigger it since it doesn't have an expensive material cost, so "when i'm surprised or lose initiative, cast Celerity" is a pretty good one. It guarantees that you go first unless your enemy also has Celerity or something like it. Even better if you get immunity to daze.
Even if you permanently use Foresight or are otherwise immune to being flat-footed, contingent Celerity means you can get 2 standard actions before anyone else can act instead of one (if you're immune to daze. Hello, Mark of the Dauntless) or use your immediate action for something else, like Nerveskitter.

[glitterbaby]

That trick sounds familiar for some reason...

I'd suggest Planar Binding a half-celestial half-gold dragon nightmare. Since the nightmare you're binding isn't Evil, they shouldn't have a problem with it. Apply half-gold dragon first to turn it into a dragon, followed by half-celestial to turn it into an outsider, so it can be Planar Bound. Say it's a kirin/qilin and call it a day.

The nightmare's ability is (Su), and so it is undispellable. It can be Disjunctioned, but not Dispelled.

Hehe yeeahhhh. I was joking around with my buddy saying "c'mon man you brought me a cheesy money maker that doesn't even work" and stuff. He replied with "don't blame me, Rubik suggested it." Also, wow, you seem to have all the answers. There's no chance they'll object to that. :smallbiggrin:


...The general problem with using Contingency for "if i die" stuff is that it should never be triggered. You're better off using it for other conditions so you don't die in the first place, and in the event that you do die anyway you can usually rely on your party to raise you instead of using a very limited resource on something that shouldn't come up....

And I suppose I'm of the same mind here. I would like a defense that'll allow me to continue contributing in fights so we win, not just I survive.