Need advice on building my life cleric

[Aironfaar]

Hiya guys,

having played a bit of D&D 3.x in the past, a few friends of mine asked me if I'd like to join them playing 5e. It's the first time for me and I don't know yet what to expect of this edition, but I still have the habit of planning how to build my character from 1 to 20.

The group will consist of five characters - ranger, paladin, wizard, rogue and my cleric. Since neither the paladin nor the ranger want to contribute all too much to the healing department, I decided to go hill dwarf life cleric without multiclassing. His backstory includes being incurably ill since birth, but being healed by divine intervention during his late adolescence, so the DM allowed me to exchange the racial +2 CON for a feat that doesn't grant any bonuses to physical attributes to reflect the consequences of growing up affected like that, compared to other dwarves.

Using 27 point buy from the Player's Handbook, the character's ability scores are as follows.

STR 15
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 8

For the first level feat, I chose War Caster. I intend to take Resilient (CON), Athlete or Heavy Armor Master and Magic Initiate, but don't know yet in which order. That selection of feats evens out STR and CON while leaving two stat increases open.

With Magic Initiate, I'll choose Wizard to get Mending, Booming Blade (from Sword Coast Adventurer Guide) and Find Familiar, none of which actually uses the INT ability. I just like the idea of getting one more cantrip from the Cleric list, having a familiar as a "doctor's assistant" and adding both control abilities and a decent amount of punch to my regular melee attacks.

Before diving into my questions below, most if not all of my choices above are thematic and thus, while possibly not optimal, what I'd like to stick to. However, that doesn't mean I won't appreciate input regarding those; to the contrary! Now for my questions, though:

1. How should I distribute the ability score increases? With how I planned the character thus far, I assume Strength and/or Wisdom would be the way to go. Only increasing strength doesn't sound too wise to me (ha!) as that would, among other things, mean I'd miss out on two prepared spells per day. With that in mind, it's either 18 STR/18 WIS or 16 STR/20 WIS in the long run. I don't know how important these abilities are going to be compared to each other, so I'm leaning towards 18 STR/18 WIS because I at least know that both are important. What would you do and most importantly, why would you decide that way?

2. Which order should I take my feats in? Since War Caster was a thematic choice (divine favor-heavy character story, so he's blessed with exceptional divine casting abilities), I want to keep it from start. Also, I like the idea of being able to cast Cure Wounds by nudging other characters with my warhammer. On the forehead. Preferrably between caving some monster's skull in with the hammer and cleaning it. "It's not like you never had goblin guts all over you before and this time it's because I patched you up through Her power, so quit your nagging already!" Ahem. Anyway. I'd like to take all the planned feats as soon as possible, and I thought about going with Magic Initiate at level 4, but other than that, I'm not sure yet. Probably either Resilient (CON) or the STR enhancer to even those stats out asap, depending on what I feel I'll need more. Still, what do you think? Which order should I take my feats in, when should I increase my ability scores?

3. Athlete or Heavy Armor Master? More importantly, did I miss any +1 STR feat that would make sense for my character?

4. Quite a bit of exposition before the actual question: The Spellcasting Focus bit of the cleric's Spellcasting feature says he can use a holy symbol to substitute material components for his cleric spells. Since Magic Initiate, in my case, grants wizard spells rather than cleric spells, I won't be able to use the holy symbol to substitute material components, and since I lack the wizard's Spellcasting Focus feature, I won't be able to use an arcane focus either. That said, to cast Mending, I'll have to have at least one hand free, but I won't need a component pouch. Instead, I'll need to have two lodestones as they won't be consumed, I'll have to pay for Find Familiar's components anyway and Booming Blade's material component is simply a weapon. Is my thinking on this correct? If so, how would I best go about getting two lodestones rather than a whole component pouch? Price, weight, etc. would be interesting to know, too.

That's been quite a bit of text from a stranger who requests advice, so...thank you for reading! :)

Aironfaar

[zylodrizzt]

Your DM sounds lenient so here's my advice. Go however you planned however I'd talk to your DM about maybe customizing what you get from magic initiate to being druid spells but ask for these ones booming blade shileliegh and find familiar. This way everything keys off your was. Flavor it like your summoning your dietys war hammer or something. I didn't include mending because it seems like your under the impression that it mends flesh and it also seems like you you think its a short casting time and to my recollection its not. From what I have seen being said about heavy armor mastery is that at higher levels it doesn't work so good. If you haven't already I'd make sure to pick up another touch can trip so your helper can do that at range for you. I'd get an owl for flyby attack help action or spell. There's a great combo with life cleric and good berry for healing so if you pick that up it would be great in between encounter healing. I believe you can still have 9th level spells with a few levels multi classing so there's some good healing to be found there such as song of rest. I'd make sure to pick up healer for some non magical healing. 2nd level artificer can make potions costing spell slots. If your worried about just getting 9th level spell slots so u can up cast then just pick full caster classes. If you get a bit of warlock you can heal a little bit while only spending a rechargeable spell slot or two. If you go bard I'd suggest at least 5 so u can get rechargeable bard inspiration. I'd suggest the resilient con not just for the bonus HP but for the increased concentration which should combine well with the paladin. No idea why you did away with the +2 con if your concern was HP as it should be in melee when u could have gone human but to each his own. If your concern is HP then I'd suggest toughness and durable so less resources spent on yourself. So those are things to consider good luck.

[kaoskonfety]

Getting your STR to 16 is fine, not really much needed, but works fine. The 18 str seems very unnecessary unless you are dipping into a multiple weapon attack class or have some other plan to get more use out of it. Your Wisdom and Con would be higher priorities - hell I'd argue your Charisma is a higher priority at that point, and a feat that gives the option to raise STR or CON 'should' go to Con for you to at least get an even number, I'd be aiming for a 16 con. Max/increase your Wisdom at your earliest reasonable opportunity - 18 here is also fine, 20 is better/matter of taste vs feats or more Con.

If you are considering Heavy Armor Master, you get the most mileage out of it at lower levels, its kind of astonishing-good and gets weaker with levels/challenges. But it sounds like War caster is more your alley, I'd strongly suggest Warcaster first from your character description and "good choices" standpoints. Followed by Magic Initiate. By level 8 Heavy armor master will likely not terribly appeal, Athletic might.

At a glance you appear to be correct on the magic initiate stuff. Lodestone has no listed cost yes? Its basically magnets, 2 magnets with a cost of "who cares?". Most DM's would, at the most, require you to spend the purchase price for a component pouch and then "throw out everything but the lodestones", I'd shrug and say "you are a dwarf who knows a few smiths and miners? sure you have them, call it 1sp" and then you either buy them or we haggle over price. With some small effort you could have them included in the pommel or guard of a weapon, stuck to the back of your shield etc. But check with the DM - I don't see many denying this simple request, but its a funny old world.

[Aironfaar]

Thanks for your replies! I've taken a bit of time and thought about everything the two of you said.


Your DM sounds lenient so here's my advice. Go however you planned however I'd talk to your DM about maybe customizing what you get from magic initiate to being druid spells but ask for these ones booming blade shileliegh and find familiar. This way everything keys off your was. Flavor it like your summoning your dietys war hammer or something. I didn't include mending because it seems like your under the impression that it mends flesh and it also seems like you you think its a short casting time and to my recollection its not.

While the DM is indeed lenient regarding the translation of decent fluff concepts into crunch, putting the realization of the concept above RAW as long as it doesn't go too far, he doesn't know 5e that well yet and prefers to stick to RAW otherwise, which means he wouldn't allow the druidic part. Either way, shillelagh isn't much of an option for me as I imagine my character wielding a warhammer rather than a club or quarterstaff; I considered it, but I'll save utilizing that spell for another character.

I know that Mending is a one minute cast time spell that fixes things rather than people, but I still like it. I would have picked it up anyway from the list of cleric cantrips, so that allows me to more or less take six rather than five out of seven. Also, Mending and Booming Blade are the only Wizard cantrips that neither use Intelligence in one way or another nor break the character's flair, so the choice was more of a virtual one, heh.


From what I have seen being said about heavy armor mastery is that at higher levels it doesn't work so good.

If you are considering Heavy Armor Master, you get the most mileage out of it at lower levels, its kind of astonishing-good and gets weaker with levels/challenges. But it sounds like War caster is more your alley, I'd strongly suggest Warcaster first from your character description and "good choices" standpoints. Followed by Magic Initiate. By level 8 Heavy armor master will likely not terribly appeal, Athletic might.

Sounds like I'll pass on Heavy Armor Master, then. Thanks! One thing I forgot to consider was taking Observant for +1 WIS and additional goodies (more passive Perception and Investigation? Yes please!) and spending one of the ability score increases to even out both STR and WIS. I guess I'll have to decide between Athlete and Observant now, and the order in which to take the feats after Magic Initiate will be based on the experiences I make during actual play.


If you haven't already I'd make sure to pick up another touch can trip so your helper can do that at range for you. I'd get an owl for flyby attack help action or spell.

Thanks for the heads-up regarding Touch spells. That altered my selection of cleric cantrips a little, and I'm fairly happy with that change. Also, an owl as a familiar really does sound awesome, both fluff and crunch wise. Unless something that gets me even more excited comes up (which will be fairly hard), I'll take it! :]


There's a great combo with life cleric and good berry for healing so if you pick that up it would be great in between encounter healing. I believe you can still have 9th level spells with a few levels multi classing so there's some good healing to be found there such as song of rest. I'd make sure to pick up healer for some non magical healing. 2nd level artificer can make potions costing spell slots. If your worried about just getting 9th level spell slots so u can up cast then just pick full caster classes. If you get a bit of warlock you can heal a little bit while only spending a rechargeable spell slot or two. If you go bard I'd suggest at least 5 so u can get rechargeable bard inspiration.

Goodberry sounds awesome, but I could only get it by multiclassing. I don't see my character going druid, though, and since I want that familiar through Magic Initiate, I'm not going to get that spell.

Multiclassing in general isn't for this character, at least not with the way I imagine him. The only classes I could multiclass into are Barbarian, Druid and Fighter; he doesn't fulfill any of the other requirements. Full spellcasters are the only thing I'd consider, and since the druid doesn't fit the concept, I'll go full cleric.

I would have liked to take the Healer feat, especially as it suits the character's background, but I don't quite like the way it plays. It makes the Medicine skill even more useless. If it was related to that skill in some way, I might consider it, but...nah, I don't like what it means fluff-wise.


I'd suggest the resilient con not just for the bonus HP but for the increased concentration which should combine well with the paladin. No idea why you did away with the +2 con if your concern was HP as it should be in melee when u could have gone human but to each his own. If your concern is HP then I'd suggest toughness and durable so less resources spent on yourself. So those are things to consider good luck.

Getting your STR to 16 is fine, not really much needed, but works fine. The 18 str seems very unnecessary unless you are dipping into a multiple weapon attack class or have some other plan to get more use out of it. Your Wisdom and Con would be higher priorities - hell I'd argue your Charisma is a higher priority at that point, and a feat that gives the option to raise STR or CON 'should' go to Con for you to at least get an even number, I'd be aiming for a 16 con. Max/increase your Wisdom at your earliest reasonable opportunity - 18 here is also fine, 20 is better/matter of taste vs feats or more Con.

Actually, my main reason to pick Resilient (CON) was indeed the proficiency with Constitution saves. I built the stats around that, i.e. made my Constitution score odd so taking the feat would make it even. I simply love the combination of War Caster and proficiency in CON saves, hehe.

Dropping those two points of Constitution was a hard decision, but it fit into the character's story perfectly and I figured that hit-points wise, I'd be fine with Dwarven Toughness (hit point maximum +1 per level, including first). After all, he'll have the same amount of hit points as a cleric of any other race without a racial bonus to constitution who aims for a constitution score of 16. Or would a cleric of such other races aim towards a score of 18?

That said, I know the life cleric gets only one attack per round, but between Divine Strike and Booming Blade (the latter not just for damage, but also for crowd control: it's "don't move or eat even more damage" for monsters I hit with that!), I'd say I can make even that one attack count - if it hits. Hence the idea to increase Strength to 18 instead of pumping it into Constitution. While I'll yet have to decide that, I'm certain to get at least 18 Wisdom, so it's either 16 STR/20 WIS or 18 STR/18 WIS.


At a glance you appear to be correct on the magic initiate stuff. Lodestone has no listed cost yes? Its basically magnets, 2 magnets with a cost of "who cares?". Most DM's would, at the most, require you to spend the purchase price for a component pouch and then "throw out everything but the lodestones", I'd shrug and say "you are a dwarf who knows a few smiths and miners? sure you have them, call it 1sp" and then you either buy them or we haggle over price. With some small effort you could have them included in the pommel or guard of a weapon, stuck to the back of your shield etc. But check with the DM - I don't see many denying this simple request, but its a funny old world.

Those are some really awesome ideas. I especially like the "lodestones worked into the warhammer" one. Since the hand holding the material component can also be used for the somatic component, I could play the Mending spell as carefully hammering (more like knocking) on the object I want to repair with my warhammer if the lodestones are worked into it.


Again, thanks a lot to both of you! I feel more confident about my plans now. Right on time, too - we might start playing today.

[Finieous]

If you are considering Heavy Armor Master, you get the most mileage out of it at lower levels, its kind of astonishing-good and gets weaker with levels/challenges.

I disagree to some extent about HAM. Obviously, it scales down from the early game where many creatures just struggle to damage you at all. However, few monsters deal magical S/P/B damage, even in the late game. The feat's effectiveness probably depends somewhat on campaign style, but assume you have five encounters per day and you get hit three times per encounter. That's 45 points of damage the feat is mitigating over the course of the day. That's good at any level. When you start getting hit for 20+ points of damage, it'll reduce the DC of your concentration checks by a point or two as well.

Having said that, you're a cleric and (IMHO) you don't want to be in a position to be hit three times per encounter at higher levels. If that matches your anticipated play style, it's probably not the best feat choice for you. But if you do plan to be in melee, I think it's a great choice.

[Belac93]

For your magic initiate feat, take goodberry. That 1 spell, combined with life cleric healing ability, will give you 40 extra points of healing per day.

[kaoskonfety]

I disagree to some extent about HAM. Obviously, it scales down from the early game where many creatures just struggle to damage you at all. However, few monsters deal magical S/P/B damage, even in the late game. The feat's effectiveness probably depends somewhat on campaign style, but assume you have five encounters per day and you get hit three times per encounter. That's 45 points of damage the feat is mitigating over the course of the day. That's good at any level. When you start getting hit for 20+ points of damage, it'll reduce the DC of your concentration checks by a point or two as well.

Having said that, you're a cleric and (IMHO) you don't want to be in a position to be hit three times per encounter at higher levels. If that matches your anticipated play style, it's probably not the best feat choice for you. But if you do plan to be in melee, I think it's a great choice.

Oh I'd agree it doesn't get "bad". Coupled with Life Domain those 3 HP per physical attack adds up like mad. But the earliest we'd be looking at getting it is 8th level? I'd argue there are better choices for our healer by this point - more Con, more Wisdom, and Resilient all 'feel' like stronger choices around here, I'm sure there are others. Doubly so if the party has someone on the 'tank' role eating many/most of the hits anyway.

[Naanomi]

I also support HAM, it has done wonders for my frontline healer. A V.Human 14/8/16/10/16/8 with HAM can max Wisdom, pickup Magic Initiate (shillelagh, goodberry, magic stone)... Still have two ASI to bump CON or pickup other feats. You are happy to eat (reduced) hits since you heal yourself while patching up others

Not a 'tank' since it lacks ability to hold combatants, but not afraid of the front lines by any means, running about and heal who need healing, thumping folks with your wisdom-club as needed

[bid]

Neat use of DM fiat, losing that Con+2. That being said, you don't need warcaster as a cleric for any spell with M since holy symbol on shield is enough. Moreover, warcaster and resilient (Con) seems like overkill.
You could start with magic initiate or pick healer (overlaps with life domain), ritual caster (doubles-up on familiar) or lucky.

If you want to use booming blade often, you'll need enough Str to hit often.


Not that it matters, but I really don't like life domain because I'd rather have more active spells or features. That being said, I will not steer you away from your RP concept. Just pick what fits.