[3.5] Sharkemental

[Thurbane]

So...as per my new sig...

http://i66.tinypic.com/2rh8kt0.jpgThanks to Gaming Geeks Etc.

Can this actually happen, or do the rules about two creatures occupying the same space make it impossible?

If so, I'm going to homebrew a template. Maybe a variation of Hivenest? :smalltongue:

Cheers - T

[ShurikVch]

Wouldn't an Oozerider be a precedent for such things?

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg30/scaled.php?server=30&filename=dnd20watercolor20riding.jpg&res=medium

(Except the Shark doesn't need an amulet, because it's a Water Elemental, not Acid)

[Necroticplague]

I'd just say that the shark is using the Water Elemental as a mount, and be done with it.

[ranagrande]

You should use an Air Elemental instead. Then it can be a Sharknado.

[Spore]

You should use an Air Elemental instead. Then it can be a Sharknado.

You need a way to keep the Shark alive. Also with the main benefit of a Shark being quick in the water and having a devastating bite attack I dislike Sharkemental immensely. Choose a stronger land mammal instead.

I would go for a Tornadosaurus Rex!

[Tvtyrant]

I think the "riding it" interpretation would work. Ride it closer so I can hit them with my teeth!

[khadgar567]

I think the "riding it" interpretation would work. Ride it closer so I can hit them with my teeth!

all elemental needs to do is grapple someone in and voila its dead

[nedz]

I once had a fey sorceress cast
Timestop, Wall of Water, Greater Arcane Fusion (Force Cage, Monster Summoning (Shark) x X; on the party — just to entertain her children.

Though I actually prefer the, lower level, Druid combo of Wall of Water and SNA (Water Elemental). The elemental then vortexes. Getting this combo off is tricky though — it really needs two Druids.

[Uncle Pine]

No, you can't summon a shark inside a water elemental: "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature".

However, this doesn't mean that you can't have angry fish biting the crap out of you from inside an angry body of water. The DMG says that to use a creature as a mount it must be able to serve as a mount and willing to do so: a water elemental is obviously able to sustain weight and can assume any shape, as well as having an Int score. In other words, you can persuade a water elemental to serve as a mount.
Now you need the sharks. Any shark shoved inside a water elemental can attempt to Ride it because Ride can be used even untrained. This will give you a still Sharkemental.
What? You want a Sharkemental that can actually fight? This will be trickier: the base Sharkemental will have a 40% chance to separate itself into a shark and a water elemental every time the shark takes damage (base DC to stay "in saddle" is 5, +5 because the shark is riding bareback with a Ride modifier of +2 for a Medium shark). You can improve the base Sharkemental by training your sharks (assigning them cross-class ranks in the Ride skill). Changing one of the sharks' feats into Mounted Combat will also increase the survivability of the Sharkemental. Finally, remember that the shark can try to avoid attacks by taking cover as described in the Ride skill (DC 15+5 for riding bareback).

[Necroticplague]

So, to make all those checks easier.....anyone have any clue what the heck an "exotic saddle" would look like for this pairing?

[Chronos]

Some sort of harness around the "body" of the elemental, to keep the shark inside? Sort of like a shark cage, I guess? But make sure to leave a big enough gap for the shark to bite out of.

[Florian]

So, druid wildshaping into huge water elemental form, shark animal companion with mounted combat feat?

[Ger. Bessa]

Can you ride a shark riding a water elemental ?

Well, can you ?

When I read the first post, I thought something great, something sublime had been reached. The kind of breakthrough that propulses humanity into a new golden age of glory. But as I read the rest of the thread I understood.

The potential had just been touched.

What appeared as glorious blinding enlightenment was just a glimpse of an even brighter tomorrow.

Onward ! Let's conquest that future ! Let's ride ride to a new horizon on a shark riding a water elemental. Let's add templates ! Let's add class levels and class features ! Let's add frickin' Lazer beams !

Question : How can we add lazer beams ?

[Florian]

Question : How can we add lazer beams ?

Share spells pet feature, fiery gaze spell. There you go.

[unseenmage]

Just wanted to stop by and say I approve of this thread and everything going on inside it.


Reminds me of the time the party chased the gnome mayor into his gnome office and got gnome trapped in a flooding room trap with electicity traps along the walls (water's rising look out!) and then made things worse by dropping a mechanical shark on themselves. Except it wasn't a shark just a bear trap on a shark dummy. But they reacted at first like it was a shark which made them all the angrier when they finally pried the secret door open and got their hands on the gnome mayor.


Huh, wouldn't illusion magic allow us to sharknado/sharkemental as much as we want? Even better if we fake out with the illusion only to hit them with the real thing afterwards.


If this were PF we could use the Clockwork Template on a shark, then give it the Robot subtype, then give it integrated weaponry so it has frickin' lasers on it's forehead.

[Florian]

Oi. Typical example of overthinking it. If you talk about robots, then pleas go out and simply implant lasers in a shark.

[Uncle Pine]

Onward ! Let's conquest that future ! Let's ride ride to a new horizon on a shark riding a water elemental. Let's add templates ! Let's add class levels and class features ! Let's add frickin' Lazer beams !

Awakened Zhentarim skymage shark with Ocular Spell riding a half-fiend water elemental. Hey, nothing says that your Zhentarim mount can't have templates.

[Chronos]

There's some way to make acidic water elementals, isn't there? There's just got to be. Because then we can put an acid-breathing shark (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0541.html) in it.

[Xuldarinar]

Is the water elemental fresh water or salt water?
Is there a difference?

[DrMotives]

Is the water elemental fresh water or salt water?
Is there a difference?

Bull sharks sometimes swim upstream in the Amazon, because why not make that place have even scarier aquatic wildlife. Also, isn't there a note that 3.x doesn't usually care about water being fresh vs salt? Older editions had fresh vs marine aquatic random encounter charts, I think 3.x just has aquatic.

[Belzyk]

Awakened Zhentarim skymage shark with Ocular Spell riding a half-fiend water elemental. Hey, nothing says that your Zhentarim mount can't have templates.

Long as it can fly. Oh wait there's a template for flight if it can't nvm everything is a mount

[Necroticplague]

Given that Elementals are relatively pure in their material, the Water elemental is probably freshwater, because it would lack significant quantities of Earth mineral impurities (though I do believe Salt is a possible quasielement of Water, so a saltwater quasielemental is a distinct possibility).

[gorfnab]

What about a Druid wildshaped into a Shark using the Mounted Combat feat to ride a summoned Water Elemental or Water Elemental companion?

[Tvtyrant]

With feat investment I think a Druid could actually summon a water elemental monolith and use megalodon empowerment to become a gargantuan shark, thus becoming the biggest shark riding the biggest elemental mount.

[Uncle Pine]

Long as it can fly. Oh wait there's a template for flight if it can't nvm everything is a mount

There's the winged template, but it can't be applied to elementals. Hence why I went for half-fiend.

[Thurbane]

What about a Druid wildshaped into a Shark using the Mounted Combat feat to ride a summoned Water Elemental or Water Elemental companion?

I like the way you think!

[PraxisVetli]

Random related information.
The waterveiled Assassin in MMIV says it occasionally carries sahuagin in it.
So while you may not be qble to summon it there, perhaps you can just find a normal shark and keep it there?

[nedz]

Command the Water Elemental to take the shape of a bowl
Fill the bowl with Water
Place the Shark in the Bowl

[Vogie]

I did something similar with a PF druid. Animal companion was an anaconda which I'd wear as a bandolier when in situations where it wouldn't enjoy crawling around, or when we had to move fast. I recall at least one fight where I shifted to an air elemental, burned my attack for another move action to get up in the targets face, then had the anaconda attack.

[atemu1234]

The real question is if you can put them in an air elemental.

https://media.giphy.com/media/rDMmUe8XcKIqk/giphy.gif

[Honest Tiefling]

So while you may not be qble to summon it there, perhaps you can just find a normal shark and keep it there?

Do YOU want to clean the angry shark's tank? No? Well, this is why I would use an undead shark. Since you cannot summon the shark inside, you're going to have to keep it in there. After that, you'll either need some magic or mooks to clean out the elemental so the shark won't die. Tossing rotting sharks at people might be hilarious, but it is not a viable battle tactic in most cases. That and sharks are messy eaters, so the remains of feeding will stink things up. I'd replace the elemental with a blood elemental (I know its not a true elemental) and make an undead shark. Might as well use that rotting flesh to the project's advantage, just prepare a lot of prestidigitation.

And who knows, maybe being turned into a zombie will increase the shark's intelligence!

[Inevitability]

Why not use a humanoid ooze of some kind and an Acidborn shark?

[Thurbane]

Damn you Facebook feed, I just saw this:

http://i67.tinypic.com/faxwle.jpg
I'm guessing Effigy Warbeast Porpoise, but how to make it "bloodthirsty"? Maybe Corrupted by the Abyss...but then it's no longer a robot (i.e. Effigy).

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm guessing Effigy Warbeast Porpoise, but how to make it "bloodthirsty"? Maybe Corrupted by the Abyss...but then it's no longer a robot (i.e. Effigy).

The Abyss cares not for your silly rules. The Abyss corrupts what it dang well pleases.

[unseenmage]

Damn you Facebook feed, I just saw this:

http://i67.tinypic.com/faxwle.jpg
I'm guessing Effigy Warbeast Porpoise, but how to make it "bloodthirsty"? Maybe Corrupted by the Abyss...but then it's no longer a robot (i.e. Effigy).

Could even use the Transforming template from Advanced Bestiary. Not sure off the top of my head how to make it "bloodthirsty". Perhaps use the Feral template at the start of the process?

[Abithrios]

Do YOU want to clean the angry shark's tank? No? Well, this is why I would use an undead shark. Since you cannot summon the shark inside, you're going to have to keep it in there. After that, you'll either need some magic or mooks to clean out the elemental so the shark won't die. Tossing rotting sharks at people might be hilarious, but it is not a viable battle tactic in most cases. That and sharks are messy eaters, so the remains of feeding will stink things up. I'd replace the elemental with a blood elemental (I know its not a true elemental) and make an undead shark. Might as well use that rotting flesh to the project's advantage, just prepare a lot of prestidigitation.

And who knows, maybe being turned into a zombie will increase the shark's intelligence!

If you have an prestidigitation anyway, just use that to clean the tank. A druid should be able to keep the shark calm and happy and let it know when feeding time is. It will be a very well fed shark!


Damn you Facebook feed, I just saw this:

http://i67.tinypic.com/faxwle.jpg
I'm guessing Effigy Warbeast Porpoise, but how to make it "bloodthirsty"? Maybe Corrupted by the Abyss...but then it's no longer a robot (i.e. Effigy).

I find it oddly satisfying that the two languages have exactly the opposite word order in the titles.

[PraxisVetli]

The Abyss cares not for your silly rules. The Abyss corrupts what it dang well pleases.
Can I sig this?

[Honest Tiefling]

Can I sig this?

Yes you may. I am quite flattered.

[TheifofZ]

Awakened Zhentarim skymage shark with Ocular Spell riding a half-fiend water elemental. Hey, nothing says that your Zhentarim mount can't have templates.

... Oh, hey. Now I have something I can use instead of that silly Kraken for the water boss for my current campaign.
This is much, much better.
Now I just need to figure out how to make for an interesting earth based boss and I'm good to go. :smallbiggrin:

[DrMotives]

... Oh, hey. Now I have something I can use instead of that silly Kraken for the water boss for my current campaign.
This is much, much better.
Now I just need to figure out how to make for an interesting earth based boss and I'm good to go. :smallbiggrin:

You have old Dragon mags? There's a thing in #334 called an Asag, like Huge evil xorn. CR 11. Like hill with 3 arms and a hundred rubies for eyes.

[TheifofZ]

You have old Dragon mags? There's a thing in #334 called an Asag, like Huge evil xorn. CR 11. Like hill with 3 arms and a hundred rubies for eyes.

I don't want to just throw a big monster at the party and be done with it; I want the bosses to be memorable encounters that require at least some level of creative thinking to be battled.
Overcoming a fast moving water elemental-riding shark that shoots lasers from its eyes, especially underwater, is both memorable and interesting, and the fact that water elementals inside the water are nigh-invisible means that unless they're paying attention, they won't realize why they aren't actually hitting the shark. A decent challenge for something around-abouts level 14, you know.
In the same vein, I was going to have the fire boss fight in the heart of a semi-active volcano, against an enemy that heals off fire damage; periodically great plumes of fire and lava are going to burst from the floor, blocking line of sight for a round and dealing massive fire damage in an area. Frightening but doable at around level 10.
The fight against the air boss is going to take place in a giant thundercloud-fortress with gale-force winds that toss and turn the party, sheets of rain that grant partial concealment and the normal penalties for fighting in the rain, and bolts of lightning at random, all while requiring the party be able to fly in the first place. Something to challenge a level 16-18 party that lacks a wizard.

But something both thematic, challenging, and interesting with a feel very 'earth/stone' esque is hard. iunno.

[nedz]

You could use a Ghost Shark with the Ghost Ride ( Ghostwalk p33) feat. The Ghost Shark could then inhabit the Water Elemental's body. I'd probably want to save this trick for a more interesting Ghost, but you could do things like:


Water Elemental moves next to some character and attacks.
The Ghost Shark then tries to ride said character.
If all goes well the character then has the Ghost Shark with in them.

[unseenmage]

I don't want to just throw a big monster at the party and be done with it; I want the bosses to be memorable encounters that require at least some level of creative thinking to be battled.
Overcoming a fast moving water elemental-riding shark that shoots lasers from its eyes, especially underwater, is both memorable and interesting, and the fact that water elementals inside the water are nigh-invisible means that unless they're paying attention, they won't realize why they aren't actually hitting the shark. A decent challenge for something around-abouts level 14, you know.
In the same vein, I was going to have the fire boss fight in the heart of a semi-active volcano, against an enemy that heals off fire damage; periodically great plumes of fire and lava are going to burst from the floor, blocking line of sight for a round and dealing massive fire damage in an area. Frightening but doable at around level 10.
The fight against the air boss is going to take place in a giant thundercloud-fortress with gale-force winds that toss and turn the party, sheets of rain that grant partial concealment and the normal penalties for fighting in the rain, and bolts of lightning at random, all while requiring the party be able to fly in the first place. Something to challenge a level 16-18 party that lacks a wizard.

But something both thematic, challenging, and interesting with a feel very 'earth/stone' esque is hard. iunno.

I would use the aforementioned giant dirt monster, but use it creatively using, as you have for the other challenges, the terrain. Have it be in stasis for a monumental amount of time. It was 'sleeping' beneath a hill/mountain (maybe even beneath a town/city!) and as the battle begins and proceeds it moves and shifts causing huge landslides and where it burrows the earth tears open only to close several rounds later crushing and entombing anyone foolish enough to've fallen in. When these earthen maws close they send up plumes of dust and debris that shower those nearby with a rain of sharp stones and boulders. Every step causes earthquakes and every swinging arm's attack windstorms.

Beyond that a Burrow speed makes the fight more than challenging enough. The addition of a settlement in the immediate vicinity would add more tactical complexity. Do the PCs aid with evacuation or do they all work together too pool their damage and try to end this fight quickly?

[ShurikVch]

Damn you Facebook feed, I just saw this:

http://i67.tinypic.com/faxwle.jpg
I'm guessing Effigy Warbeast Porpoise, but how to make it "bloodthirsty"? Maybe Corrupted by the Abyss...but then it's no longer a robot (i.e. Effigy).Take humanoid-shaped Construct, cast Greater Humanoid Essence on it, then infect it with lycanthropy.
Maybe, Blacktooth Lycanthropy (Dungeon #129) - for extra ferocity. Maybe even Chosen of Malar
And, if Porpoise is not enough, you may use Ichthyosaur

[Uncle Pine]

... Oh, hey. Now I have something I can use instead of that silly Kraken for the water boss for my current campaign.
This is much, much better.

Hey, glad to be of help.

[Debihuman]

Variant Large Water Elemental with Engulf (or you can make both a size larger as needed).

Engulf (Ex): As a standard action this Large Water Elemental can Engulf a Medium sized shark that is adjacent to it. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs the shark, though the shark can attack foes within its bite range. The shark must succeed on a DC 13 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, the shark is pushed back or aside as the water elemental moves forward. The engulfed shark is considered trapped within water elemental's body until the elemental releases it, either the shark or the elemental is killed, or the shark succeeds on Strength check (DC 15) to escape. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus. While the shark is engulfed it can still attack foes but takes a -1 penalty on attack and damage.

How is that?

Debby

[Zephonim]

I actually had a similar idea with Aboleths...


instead they have a Magical Crystal that allows them to swim on land by creating a bubble of water... but not really flying it can only be above ground/terrain by like a foot.

I mean no Water Elemental but thats an option as well

[mabriss lethe]

It's been a while since I looked it over, but would the Symbiotic creature template from Savage species be useful for this?

[Inevitability]

It's been a while since I looked it over, but would the Symbiotic creature template from Savage species be useful for this?

If you make the water elemental a Half-Fey Greenbound water elemental and the elemental is at least two sizes bigger than the shark, then it would.