[3.5] Help me rebalance my party?

[Qwertystop]

I'm running three newbies through the Dark and Stormy Knight module. One Bard, one Druid (animal companion: hawk), one Crusader. Thus far, the Crusader has been really running the show. Partly this is due to amazing luck in all of the enemies missing pretty much everything - the total damage dealt as of all of the encounters except the boss is 6, from one hit by the Medium Monstrous Spider.

They'll level off of the boss encounter, and I'm going to help them with the levelling and possibly allow limited respecs. Problem is, I don't know that much more about it than they do - I've never played a Bard, Druid, or low-level Crusader.

Any tips? Theoretically all books are available, but I want to keep the number of books low if possible for simplicity's sake.

Sheets:
www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581318
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581346
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581341

[ComaVision]

My thoughts:

The Crusader is fine, very hard to mess up so use him for your balancing point.
For the Bard, consider the Dragonfire Inspiration feat. It makes them a lot more powerful. Also look at the Song of the White Raven feat for later.
For the Druid, the player may want to switch Dex and Con, as the health is going to be more important in the long run. Maybe let him switch out his animal companion for a wolf as that will be more useful and hold him until he starts getting more spells and gets towards Wildshape.


Hope that helps a bit.

[nedz]

Melle is often strong at low levels, and Bard 1 is especially weak having only cantrips and music 1/day.

This will change and the Druid should take over in power from about level 5.

[Gabrosin]

I'm running three newbies through the Dark and Stormy Knight module. One Bard, one Druid (animal companion: hawk), one Crusader. Thus far, the Crusader has been really running the show. Partly this is due to amazing luck in all of the enemies missing pretty much everything - the total damage dealt as of all of the encounters except the boss is 6, from one hit by the Medium Monstrous Spider.

They'll level off of the boss encounter, and I'm going to help them with the levelling and possibly allow limited respecs. Problem is, I don't know that much more about it than they do - I've never played a Bard, Druid, or low-level Crusader.

Any tips? Theoretically all books are available, but I want to keep the number of books low if possible for simplicity's sake.

Sheets:
www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581318
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581346
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=581341

Here's the big question: why? What needs rebalancing here? Is one of your players unhappy about their role or effectiveness?

Different characters have different levels at which they'll shine. Unless you have someone who's visibly unhappy about how things are going, you shouldn't meddle. All three of these classes are going to produce strong characters that are plenty powerful at low levels. If you had a generic fighter or monk or the like, then maybe you could be concerned, but right now just let things go as they are.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'd leave it alone. Level 1 is hardly a point where you should care about balance.

Crusaders are incredibly frontloaded, so him dominating is normal. It will even out in a few levels, leaving him merely a very good melee combatant - which is his role, so it's fine. It's hard to break the game with a crusader unless you're really trying and it's equally hard to mess one up so much he's unplayable, so he makes a good benchmark.

The druid will only get stronger. Okay, the hawk isn't the most optimal of 1st level companions (you'll want a riding dog for that), but if your player is happy i'd leave it. It'll matter less as he gets enough spells to get through all his daily encounters, and then he gets Wild Shape. Unless he's really clueless about spell selection and WS forms he won't have problems, and even then all you need to do is encourage him to experiment with different spells and forms until he finds something that works for him.

The bard depends on how he's build. There isn't much to do at level 1 except tough it out, but as he gets the levels and cash to improve music and spellcasting he'll more than pull his weight. Leave him alone too unless he starts making bad choices - if he then complains about being weak you can point him in the right direction (music & spellcasting) or to the relevant handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=c7l2tldboinbjmscit09nd37j3&topic=8686).
He'll need splatbook support for that though, so don't get too restrictive or your effort to make things simple will end up strangling his potential - the Complete line and MIC is enough though, and maybe BoED if he's interested in that.

[eggynack]

Getting the druid up to speed is trivial, if he wants to be effective. First step is changing the spell selection, ditching everything but cure minor wounds for some entangles for firsts and some detect magics and create waters for zeroths. Next step is probably swapping the hawk for a riding dog, cause riding dogs are sweet. He can go bigger, if he wants, pulling in some fancy first level spells from other sources like impeding stones and wall of smoke, but entangle plus a riding dog is more than sufficient for awesomeness at first level. You wind up with a capable melee riding dog, albeit one that's not going to be up to the level of the crusader, and the ability to lock down the battlefield at the same time, increasing the potency of both melee forces. And, of course, this edge will only grow with leveling, enabling power which the crusader couldn't even dream of. If the player in question wants yet more information on the topic, the handbook in my sig should be sufficient for most purposes.

The bard is trickier. Inspire courage optimization could be a path to victory, but that'd take more than a little build altering to work in the immediate sense, and would likely require some heavy book use. It may be best to just let him be behind now, because casting, used properly, will be enough to propel him to a level a little above the crusader later on. First level bards are pretty bad, but second level bards, with access to a diverse set of first level spells, are quite capable of aiding a party. In the end, it really depends on his preference, whether he wants to change up his build or would rather accept the low spot in the pecking order being a first level bard affords him. Druid and crusader are two of the most powerful classes at first level, so there's likely going to be some discrepancy no matter what you do.

[Troacctid]

Crusaders as a class are ridiculously overpowered at level 1--arguably the most powerful level 1 class in the game, in fact--so what you're experiencing is normal and expected. There's also not much you can do about it.

Here's what you should do, though: Generate new ability scores using a point buy. Your Crusader would be dominating even if he had the same stat rolls as the rest of the party, but the fact that the Druid and Bard have crappy arrays is just an unnecessary kick in the teeth for their players. The Crusader has the equivalent of a 31 point buy, while the Druid has the equivalent of 21 and the Bard has only 16. In fact, the Bard's scores are so low that he probably shouldn't even be allowed to have them--according to the stat-rolling rules in the Player's Handbook, he qualifies for a free reroll, since his modifiers sum to a total of 0 or less. The disparity here is only going to exacerbate the balance issues in the party, and you really ought to clean it up. I recommend letting the Druid and Bard buy up to 31 points for their stats, same as the Crusader.

Your Bard also forgot to mark down the arcane spell failure chance for his shield, and both the Bard and Druid forgot to apply their Wisdom modifier to their Will saves.

[nedz]

The Druid seems to have missed their bonus 1st level spell due to Wisdom.

[atemu1234]

Make sure the Bard knows he's probably best off running support.

[Inevitability]

The first thing to do is restrain the bard, because he's a CN halfling with four points of wisdom, yet in possession of enough magic to make any one NPC you encounter hate you. :smalltongue:

But seriously, let the druid and bard run support, while the crusader tanks and spanks. Maybe swap the hawk out for a wolf?

[dspeyer]

I note the crusader's stats are way higher than the others. It doesn't matter much to a druid, but a bard with +0 total mod is painful. Consider offering that player a reroll, or just the opportunity to copy and reshuffle the crusader's rolls. (Might as well offer this to the druid as well, though it makes less difference.)

At present it seems like the bard doesn't have much to do in combat. Boosting his stats might solve this, by making violence viable, and the problem lessen once real spells become available. If that's not enough, consider letting him find a wand of Silent Image or Grease.

As for the druid, remind her that she gets a 1st level bonus spell slot for wisdom. Others have already commented on spell selection. That should suffice, I would guess.