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kkortekaas
2007-05-29, 12:04 PM
Barring the effectiveness of this character, I could use a hand.

I'm looking to make a Rogue / Ranger that's a skill monkey and good at sneaking, He also wants to become a Shadowdancer at some point.

now, I know Rangers kinda sucks, but it fits the concept of a guy that is at home in both Urban and Wilderness settings.

Here is the progression that I've got so far, the fighter dabble was for the feats...

Human Rogue 1 (CL 1)
Human Rogue 1 / Ranger 1 (CL 2)
Human Rogue 1/ Ranger 1 / Fighter 1 (CL 3)
Human Rogue 1 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 1 (CL 4)
Human Rogue 2 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 1 (CL 5)
Human Rogue 2 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 (CL 6)
Human Rogue 3 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 (CL 7)
That's as far as I got.....

Here are my stats, which I can place anywhere, I figured Dex and Int at 17, rest whereever.
17
11
17
12
11
13

I'd prefer to stick to PHB classes, and I've got access to the 3.5 PHB, Races of Stone, Races of the Wild, Races of Destiny (which I plan on taking the Able Learner Feat from), Cityscape, and the complete 3.0 - 3.5 Forgotten Realms Line.

Appreciate the help.

Yvian
2007-05-29, 01:31 PM
Level 1: Dodge, Mobility
Level 2:
Level 3: Power Attack, Weapon Finesse
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6: Combate Expertise
Level 7:

Or even better yet, [Well, not "better" - just different. I would dump Ranger - but that is just me - I don't know how you are going to roll play the guy.]

Level 1: Rogue 1: Feat - Dodge, Feat - Combate Expertise, 1d6 sneak
Level 2: Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Finesse
Level 3: Rouge 2: Power Attck
Level 4: Rouge 3: 2d6
Level 5 Swashbucker 2: Grace
Level 6: Swashbucker 3: Feat - Darring Outlaw, Insightful Strike, Sneak 3d6
Level 7: Fighter 1: Feat - Mobility

More skill points, more sneak damage, add int to your damage.
Losse track, combate style, animal compaion.

Edit: No this does not work - you have r3/s3/f1 - you are going to need to throw in another level of fighter. At least you will be able to pick up another bonus feat.

Curmudgeon
2007-05-29, 09:50 PM
Ranger is definitely a weak choice. If you really want this, I'd suggest the following:
Stop Ranger at level 2. Selecting TWF as your combat style is tthe best this class has to help your Rogue abilities.
You should use the alternative class feature in Complete Mage to select arcanist as your favored enemy, so you'll get a bonus against any arcane casters/invokers.
You really don't want to progress in Ranger levels to the point that you're duplicating Rogue/Shadowdancer abilities: Evasion at level 9 (vs. Rogue 2), Hide in Plain Sight at level 17 (vs. Shadowdancer 1). Plus the Ranger's spellcasting progression is so slow that you're much better off not even getting to level 4, and instead maxing out your Use Magic Device skill.

2 levels of Ranger gives you help with BAB and Fortitude saves, martial weapon proficiency, and Two-Weapon Fighting. TWF and a keen rapier/keen kukri combination (both with 15-20 threat ranges) give you your best option to hit for critical damage. The Telling Blow feat (PH2) lets you apply sneak attack damage on any confirmed critical, so that's about your best bet for getting optimal value from this class combination.

When you get your Shadowdancer level you'll probably have a high enough Hide skill to be able to sneak attack and Hide again on each swing of a full melee attack. You might consider Spring Attack for the next feat to take after that if your speed is high (due to Boots of Speed, for instance) because you'll have already paid for the wimpy prerequisite feats (Dodge and Mobility).

Skills to max out: Hide, Tumble, Move Silently, Use Magic Device, Bluff (so you can feint).

Skills to get (at least) 5 ranks in: Balance, Jump, Perform (dance), Search.

kkortekaas
2007-05-30, 02:47 PM
Where can I find details on the swashbuckler?

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-30, 03:06 PM
Its in the Com. Warrior, and is usally inculded for a three level splash. If your trying to get the shadow jump ablitity, a better way would be with
Ranger2/rouge4/Horizenwalker 6/Shadowdancer 1/ Shashbukeler3/ whatever6
the Horizen wakker is for the shifting planar trait, which allows one to use the dimension door spell every 1d4 rounds, and shadow dancer can be a great splash level.


EDIT: Opps, my bad, thanks Behold the Void.

Behold_the_Void
2007-05-30, 04:26 PM
Actually Swashbuckler is in Complete Warrior, but it's a lot better than Ranger for a dex-based character. Free Weapon Finesse and Int to damage at 3rd level is quite nice.

DraPrime
2007-05-30, 05:54 PM
In Complete Scoundrel there's a bunch of feats that modify sneak attacks. Those will be really useful.

Droodle
2007-05-30, 07:01 PM
I know you wanted to stick to PHB classes, but if you really want to mix the skills of Rangers, Rogues, and the Shadowdancer PRC, you'd be a lot better off just taking a scout. Not only will he be able to deal lots of precision damage, but he'll also get hide in plain sight at higher levels. An archery based scout will be able to do everything you want to do with those three classes.....only better. Why play a Fighter/Rogue/Wizard specializing in enchantment when you can just use a bard?

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-30, 07:36 PM
I know you wanted to stick to PHB classes, but if you really want to mix the skills of Rangers, Rogues, and the Shadowdancer PRC, you'd be a lot better off just taking a scout. Not only will he be able to deal lots of precision damage, but he'll also get hide in plain sight at higher levels. An archery based scout will be able to do everything you want to do with those three classes.....only better. Why play a Fighter/Rogue/Wizard specializing in enchantment when you can just use a bard?

If he's looking for a melee base build, or one that uses the shadow jump/dimensional door, not so much.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-30, 08:11 PM
If he's looking for a melee base build, or one that uses the shadow jump/dimensional door, not so much.

Then here's what you do...

Ranger6/Horizion Walker6/whatever else...

Horizion Walker 6 gives you a Planar Mastery. Take the Shifting planar mastery, which gives you a Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds. Other handy stuff includes Desert (immunity to fatigue) and Underground (Darkvision) which can be taken at earlier levels of HW.

Sadly, you do need to dip one level of Shadowdancer for HipS, since you don't get it as a Ranger until 17.

Rangers get Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search, and Listen as class skills. So he's your perfect scout. Plus he can track critters thrown in for free. No need for Rogue at all. Horizion Walker gives you some fun abilities, but the 6th level Planar Mastery of Shifting Planar Mastery is really what you're going for... a bunch of DimDoors.

cupkeyk
2007-05-30, 08:27 PM
A TWF Rog10 with crippling strike combined with a shadowdancer's shadow companion can drain an opponent of strength pretty fast. Flank with your shadow and SA 2 str each attack while your shadow deals 1d6.
LOLz, Go Strongheart halfling for bonus feat:

Racial Combat Reflexes
1 TWF
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Dodge
9 Mobility
12 ITWF
15 GTWF
18 Savvy Rogue

Otherwise, Shadowdancer is a one level dip for hide in plain sight. Except for Savvy rogue, that lets you use crippling strike against creatures otherwise immune to SA, this is almost core. ^_^ Savvy rogue could go in favor of something else since it comes into play much later.

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-30, 08:45 PM
Then here's what you do...

Ranger6/Horizion Walker6/whatever else...

Horizion Walker 6 gives you a Planar Mastery. Take the Shifting planar mastery, which gives you a Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds. Other handy stuff includes Desert (immunity to fatigue) and Underground (Darkvision) which can be taken at earlier levels of HW.

Sadly, you do need to dip one level of Shadowdancer for HipS, since you don't get it as a Ranger until 17.

Rangers get Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Search, and Listen as class skills. So he's your perfect scout. Plus he can track critters thrown in for free. No need for Rogue at all. Horizion Walker gives you some fun abilities, but the 6th level Planar Mastery of Shifting Planar Mastery is really what you're going for... a bunch of DimDoors.

Yeah, I know. My response was based on his request of rouge in the build, but your response was what I got when I asked on the wizard boards. I would personally use Ranger6/Horizenwaker6/Shadowdancer1/Swashbuckler3/Whatever
As it gives alot, but its pretty feat intensive. I belive that I had myself aiming to go into Tempest, but if you can manage, dervish would also be good, with scout also in their, but as a suboptimal choice.