Tempest Cleric with Booming Blade -- Viable?

[Fiat_Goose]

Hey All, didn't find anything in search so here goes:

I have the opportunity to reroll my level 4 Dwarf Tempest Cleric. I'm thinking of taking Magic Initiate feat to grab booming blade, 'shield', and another cantrip.

The plan is to take a Warhammer and Shield into battle for 18 AC.

At level 5, booming blade will do 2d8 (from hammer and lvl 5 power spike) and an additional 2d8 if the creep moves.

At level 8, Divine Strike kicks in to add another 1d8 up front for 3d8 initial and 2d8.

At level 11, booming blade and hammer and divine strike do 4d8 initial and 3d8 upon voluntary move.

At level 14, Divine strike makes the initial strike 5d8

At level 17, we're talking 6d8 and 4d8 upon voluntary move. :smalleek:

This to me is very tempting. Combo'ing the raw power of melee attacks with a good AC while being able to cast spells/bless seems fun.

The downside: taking magic initiate feat derails ASI increases, taking warcaster, and Resilient. Chances are my wisdom saving throw and +to hit from str will remain average (at best) until level 16.

Has anyone goofed around with this? Any advice from high level clerics who know what to prioritize?

THANKS :D

[MaxWilson]

The downside: taking magic initiate feat derails ASI increases, taking warcaster, and Resilient. Chances are my wisdom saving throw and +to hit from str will remain average (at best) until level 16.

Has anyone goofed around with this? Any advice from high level clerics who know what to prioritize?

I haven't goofed around with it, but it sounds viable. A word of advice: consider Mounted Combatant. Not only will it give you advantage on (many but not all) melee attacks, compensating for your average Str, but you can also direct your mount to Disengage in order to force melee enemies to move in order to attack you, triggering the boom. And as a tempest cleric, you can use lances for d12 damage, which also helps compensate for your low Str.

A variant human could just barely fit in Magic Initiate, Warcaster, Resilient (Con), Mounted Combatant, and +4 to Wis by level 20. Resilient (Con) isn't very useful until your proficiency bonus is at least +4, so put that one off. I'd say take Mounted Combatant at level 1, Magic Initiate (Shield, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure) at level 4, Warcaster at level 8, +2 Wis at level 12, Resilient (Con) at level 16, and +2 Wis at level 19.

Here's a trick you can do (one caveat, see below):

Normally, Spirit Guardians triggers when a creature enters an area for the first time on its turn, or starts it turns there. It does not trigger when the casters moves the area onto you--it's not an unstoppable moving zone of instant death. However, by 6th level a tempest cleric has knockback whenever he inflicts Lightning damage, so here's what you do:

Round 1: Cast Spirit Guardians, have your steed move pretty close to the enemy.
Round 2: Move your steed 15' away from enemy and cast Lightning Lure on them. If they fail their Strength save, they get dragged into melee range of you (5') and take 2d8 lightning damage from the Lightning Lure, then 3d8 radiant damage (save for half) from Spirit Guardians (save for half), and then they get knocked right back out of the Spirit Guardians radius while your horse withdraws a few feet. (Plus, you can Spiritual Hammer them with your bonus action this turn for d8+Wis mod if you want to spend another spell slot.) Now if they want to attack you on round two, they'll be entering the radius again (same round, but a new turn) so they take 3d8 radiant damage (save for half) again, and since their speed is halved there's a good chance they have to Dash to catch up to you and therefore can't attack this turn.
Round 3, etc.: same as round two, except that if he starts within 5' of you, you Booming Blade instead of Lightning Lure and then have your horse Disengage.

Here's the caveat: ask your DM how the 15' range on Lightning Lure interacts with the 15' radius of Spirit Guardians. When you're casting Lightning Lure on someone 15' away, does he count as already within the radius, or can you drag him into it?

If you're not planning to be a tank for your group you might consider delaying or omitting Warcaster in favor of +2 Wis or Resilient (Con). Warcaster gives you Booming Blade opportunity attacks and better con saves, both of which are great for tanks but less valuable than +2 Wisdom to someone who is primarily a back-liner. It all depends on how you intend to play.

But yes, it sounds viable.

Edit: BTW, is your DM planning on letting you use cleric spell slots for Shield, or are you planning on just taking it for 1/day insurance? If the latter, consider Absorb Elements instead. You don't need it as often as Shield but it could save you 45 HP of damage against an ancient dragon someday; you'd have to be facing 180 HP worth of attacks in a single round for Shield to save you that much.

[charcoalninja]

Got a dev quote on your Spirit Guardian's rule? Because moving the zone onto you is absolutely entering the zone and triggering the damage. It uses the same language as blade barrier and so it is a moving zone of death. That's the whole point.

[Joe the Rat]

Don't forget the you can channel to maximize lightning or thunder damage - though there you would need to ask your DM if using this would count for both parts of Booming Blade, or just the initial attack or damage-on-move part.

[Finieous]

I commented on this at length in a recent thread, but I'll repeat myself here. As someone playing a 14th level tempest cleric, I think it's entirely viable but likely not optimal. Your melee DPR is still going to be fairly weak when you're not getting the secondary damage, moreso if you don't improve your attack stat. But if you do improve your attack stat so that your hit chance keeps pace, your spellcasting capability will suffer. In effect, you're sacrificing your strongest capability -- spellcasting -- to reinforce a weaker capability. From an optimization perspective, I believe you're almost always better off maximizing your strengths and then shoring up weaknesses with whatever leftovers you've got.

You should also take a clear-eyed look at your ability to hang in melee against double-digit CR enemies (keep in mind that pure martials can struggle hanging in melee...without clerics and other support backing them up with heals, buffs, dispels, etc.). Finally, you should consider opportunity cost. At 14th level, I have (IIRC) seventeen spells to cast every day. Even if I am willing to mix it up in melee, how often is that going to be the best use of my action? On those occasions when I have nothing better to do than at-will damage (i.e. the action isn't important enough for a spell), how important is it that I do a few more damage with it? And factoring in my melee hit chance compared to my save DC (if I've emphasized spellcasting; DC 18 at 14th level, against generally crappy monster saves), how much more damage am I really doing compared to dropping a sacred flame from up to 60 feet away?

[Tanarii]

I'd say take Mounted Combatant at level 1, Magic Initiate (Shield, Booming Blade, Lightning Lure) at level 4, Warcaster at level 8, +2 Wis at level 12, Resilient (Con) at level 16, and +2 Wis at level 19.You're unlikely to be able to afford a mount before level 3-4. Probably more like 7-8 because you'll *really* want a warhorse, barding and a military saddle if you're trying to use it as a combat mount. Plus you're going to want better armor for yourself first. Low level characters can't be affording to pay 75gp over and over again for new mounts, and gold is hard to come by unless you're playing a non-standard campaign. Regular characters are looking at enough for Splint Mail around level 3-4, breastplate at 5-6, half-plate at 6-7, and full-plate at 7-8. So warhorse/barding on top of that will be about 8-9.

Unless I knew my DM was going to be generous with gold, or supply free horses whenever and know I'd be losing control of (or just straight losing) my mount in battle occasionally, I'd make it my second ASI.

[MaxWilson]

You're unlikely to be able to afford a mount before level 3-4. Probably more like 7-8 because you'll *really* want a warhorse, barding and a military saddle if you're trying to use it as a combat mount. Plus you're going to want better armor for yourself first. Low level characters can't be affording to pay 75gp over and over again for new mounts, and gold is hard to come by unless you're playing a non-standard campaign. Regular characters are looking at enough for Splint Mail around level 3-4, breastplate at 5-6, half-plate at 6-7, and full-plate at 7-8. So warhorse/barding on top of that will be about 8-9.

Unless I knew my DM was going to be generous with gold, or supply free horses whenever and know I'd be losing control of (or just straight losing) my mount in battle occasionally, I'd make it my second ASI.

First level is when Mounted Combatant shines brightest. You can buy a donkey for 8 gp or a riding horse for 60 gp. IIRC the donkey has 40' movement, which is good enough to be useful combined with its free Disengages/Dashes. If you're kiting you reduce your need for heavy armor, though of course you'll buy chain mail anyway if you can.

Warhorse, barding, and military saddle is overkill for a low-level character. If you have tons of gold, sure, why not? But an 8 gp donkey works almost as well.

[Submortimer]

Hey All, didn't find anything in search so here goes:

I have the opportunity to reroll my level 4 Dwarf Tempest Cleric. I'm thinking of taking Magic Initiate feat to grab booming blade, 'shield', and another cantrip.

The plan is to take a Warhammer and Shield into battle for 18 AC.

At level 5, booming blade will do 2d8 (from hammer and lvl 5 power spike) and an additional 2d8 if the creep moves.

At level 8, Divine Strike kicks in to add another 1d8 up front for 3d8 initial and 2d8.

At level 11, booming blade and hammer and divine strike do 4d8 initial and 3d8 upon voluntary move.

At level 14, Divine strike makes the initial strike 5d8

At level 17, we're talking 6d8 and 4d8 upon voluntary move. :smalleek:

This to me is very tempting. Combo'ing the raw power of melee attacks with a good AC while being able to cast spells/bless seems fun.

The downside: taking magic initiate feat derails ASI increases, taking warcaster, and Resilient. Chances are my wisdom saving throw and +to hit from str will remain average (at best) until level 16.

Has anyone goofed around with this? Any advice from high level clerics who know what to prioritize?

THANKS :D

If you're going to do it, spend the other cantrip on either Lightning Lure or Shocking grasp, so you have a reliable source of lightning damage. Alternately, grab GFB and give yourself an option when you're swarmed by goblins.

[Finieous]

First level is when Mounted Combatant shines brightest. You can buy a donkey for 8 gp or a riding horse for 60 gp. IIRC the donkey has 40' movement, which is good enough to be useful combined with its free Disengages/Dashes. If you're kiting you reduce your need for heavy armor, though of course you'll buy chain mail anyway if you can.

Warhorse, barding, and military saddle is overkill for a low-level character. If you have tons of gold, sure, why not? But an 8 gp donkey works almost as well.

A mule/donkey is Medium, so you can only use one as a mount if you're small, in which case you can't get Mounted Combat at 1st level. You can swing a draft horse at 50 gp or a riding horse at 75 gp, but the rest of your equipment will be rather poor. My next character is a knight (background +25 gp) with a riding horse, bit and bridle, riding saddle, and lance, but the rest of his kit is ring mail, shield, flail, spear. I don't mind too much because I like the idea of starting as a penniless hedge knight. If his horse gets eaten in the first encounter, I may like it less. :smallbiggrin:

[krugaan]

plus mounts are not generally useful in dungeons.

tempest cleric / beastmaster Halfling ranger riding a panther?

[Tanarii]

Warhorse, barding, and military saddle is overkill for a low-level character. If you have tons of gold, sure, why not? But an 8 gp donkey works almost as well.I feel like you'd need to spend some time tilting at windmills if you're going to make a donkey-knight. :)