Gaining Sneak Attack without Rogue?

[Deel]

I'm playing a Beguiler in a pirate-esque campaign, I find the spell selection to be very nice for that. However, I want some slight amount of offensive capability, and what with my ability to constantly deny my opponents their dex bonus, along with my huge variety of spells to help me not get hit, I think sneak attack could work fairly well, and it fits the pirate theme very well.

I'm trying to get a setup that will get me into Arcane Trickster, for full casting progression and sneak attack is exactly what I want. I already got our DM to approve Mage Hand as a Beguiler spell, but the sneak attack thing is trickier, I thought of Rogue, but that loses me three caster levels and knocks me out of ninth level spells(and down a few 8th level spell slots, which is also pretty crappy.)

So, any way I can do this?

[Dark Tira]

Try the Unseen Seer from Complete Mage. It's kind of weird though, you'd have to check with your DM to see if it gives sneak attack or if it only advances a previous sneak attack progression.

[Danin]

I'm currently in a very similar situation in trying to create a swift blade so this information would be similarly helpfull to me too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you went one Rogue, 3 dagger spell mage from Complete Adventurer, this would fill the requirment with only loosing two caster levels and leave you with 9th level spells. It would work, but would require Rogue...

[Deel]

I got it. One level dip into Rogue, one level dip into Unseen Seer. I am going into Trickster at 8th level, a little late, but better than never. I lose one caster level, but I can live with that. I'll probably go Rogue 1/Beguiler 5/Unseen Seer 1/Arcane Trickster 10/? 3.

EDIT: Is this post invisible or something?

[Laurellien]

I hope it works out for you, something like assassin could also work as that gets a few arcane spells.

[Felan]

If you have the Tome of Battle, you can gain maneuvers and stances by using feats (though you may already have plans for those). The Assassin's Stance gives you 2d6 sneak attack, but if you have no levels in an initiator class, you'd end up having to be level 10 to take it... which, upon reflection, probably makes it useless for your build... sorry...

[AtomicKitKat]

Look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=662842).

Seems like Daggerspell Mage is probably the best-case for you.:smallconfused:

[Miraqariftsky]

How about sometime as a Thug?

[Person_Man]

There is no need to multi-class or waste feats on Sneak Attack if you want offensive power for your Beguiler.

Instead, you can:

Use your 11th level Advanced Learning ability to pick up Shadow Evocation or Shadow Conjuration.

Invest in Use Magic Device and use wands and scrolls.

Look at the Item Compendium, and look at the wide variety of rods and other cool offensive items that anyone can use. And/or;

Use the Shadowcraft Mage (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=655556) build, or some toned down version of it if you think its too cheesy.


Whatever you do, don't give up caster levels. Access to higher level spells is ALWAYS more potent then a few extra points of damage from Sneak Attack, especially when you consider Precision restrictions.

[Deel]

Well, I'd like my guy to have a little offense with his weapons, he is a pirate after all. And with arcane trickster, I lose no caster levels from that, and the only one I do lose is one from rogue, which only puts me down one spell slot(9th level, which is big, I know, but I can live with it.)

It's mostly just how I envision the character, I don't try to make fluff and mechanics completely together, but I don't put them seperate, I just try to optimize around fluff, which is easily possible. Hence, I am making a daring pirate guy with a quick wit and a few little magic abilities to trick his opponents, and he is not too bad with a Crossbow/Rapier. In mechanical terms, he is more like a Beguiler/Rogue(skillmonkey/slight SAer) Gish, but with near full caster progression. Sneak attack just fits well for a pirate/underhanded fighting character, and it's just a bonus that a beguiler has a ton of ways to make sure the target loses Dex-to-AC and to not get hit.

I'll be finishing off with Beguiler anyway, and leaving Beguiler only 1 or 2 levels behind Advanced Learning, so later on in my progression, I can hop back in and pick up Shadow Evocation once my caster level is high enough anyway, if I start feeling useless.

The only feats I am using for combat are Weapon Finesse for my rapier, and maybe Rapid Reload for my hand crossbow when I get multiple attacks(not anytime soon.) Other than that, just grabbing stuff to raise the DCs of my enchantment stuff.

On the Shadowcraft Mage build - it's good, I know, I get it. Something just urks me to use something I didn't build myself though. I'm sure someone has thought of this idea before and maybe used it, like most decent builds, but I just like creating my own characters and optimizing the way I envision them. I don't cripple them, but I'm not going to go look on around for a pre-made build that is optimized to, well, rape the game, to put it bluntly.

[Jayabalard]

There is no need to multi-class or waste feats on Sneak Attack if you want offensive power for your Beguiler. When people start talking about xxxx type of ability and fitting into yyyy theme, it doesn't seem likely that they'll be all that interested in advice like this...

[The Mormegil]

Magelord. It gets nice abilities and Sneak Attack as well. With Divine Oracle it could be without losing ANY CL. I wouldn't let you take the daggermage, you know, it's a member of a NG organization that is likely to HATE pirates...
Anyway: Wizard 5 Full-casting PrC 2 Divine Oracle 2 Magelord 5 Arcane Trickster 5
FULL SPELLCASTING and +5d6 Sneak Attack

[ZeroNumerous]

I wouldn't let you take the daggermage, you know, it's a member of a NG organization that is likely to HATE pirates...

Irrelevant. Fluff can be changed oh so easily.

And guys. Daggerspell Mage requires +1d6 Sneak Attack to get into.

[Person_Man]

OK, so please correct me if I'm wrong Deel, but from my reading of your comments, you want:

1) Pirate fluff
2) High Int ("quick wits")
3) Magic abilities/tricks/spells
4) Decent use of Crossbow & Rapier
5) Sneak Attack

How about a Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b): Intelligence based powers, Sneak Attack, rapier and crossbow, excellent Skills. Not magical, but otherwise it seems to fit what you want.

Also, there's a part of me that wants to say Duskblade with Able Learner. great melee, decent Skills, tons of damage output that you could roleplay as sneaky. I'm not sure that's what you're going for though.

I understand your sentiment of not wanting to go with the Shadowcraft build or something similarly game breaking. But keep in mind that strong builds can always be roleplayed in a weaker fashion to suit your party level, where you don't use your best combo's unless. But it's very difficult to convince a DM to allow you to rebuild a weak character, unless you truly suck. Regardless, you'll probably be fine with your Rogue/Beguiler.