homebred tier 1 warlock and tier 1 warmage how to

[tsj]

The wife and me both play 3.5. I like the warlock and she likes to play an agressive warmage.

We would like to somehow alter these 2 classes such that they can compete on tier 1 with the wizard...

Are there any clever ways to do that without just gestalting the classes with the wizard class?

Also would a sorcerer become tier 1 if he had an unlimited number of spells known (ie. All spells arcane are known spells)??

[noob]

"Also would a sorcerer become tier 1 if he had an unlimited number of spells known (ie. All spells arcane are known spells)?? "
Probably but it might overshadow a little the wizard which only advantage will be a better use of metamagics.
For warmage if you do not give it all the cool spells it will not be T1 and all the cool spells is an ginormous list.
If you want a T1 warlock you would need to make tons of new powers and make them able to learn new powers for them to be T1.

[Magikeeper]

Well, you could gestalt them with any tier 1 class, not just wizard.

Anyway, I think it would be easier to take a tier 1 class and make it feel more like a warlock/warmage like than the reverse. Basically take a tier 1 class, reduce how many spells they can cast per day, and add some warlock/warmage-ish powers.

That sorcerer change would be tier 1 all right. It'd also be rather obnoxiously versatile...

[ImperatorV]

Sorcerer with all spells known would actually be slightly better then the wizard; you wouldn't get the wizard's ACFs and some prestige classes, but you'd have more spells per day and be more versatile.

Getting warmage to tier 1 is easy - you just expand it's spell list. Direct damage spells are not the only spells useful in war, you know. Summons, teleportation, buffs and battlefield control are all things that could have a bigger impact on a battlefield then a fireball. Giving a warmage an expanded spell list with all the OP stuff can bring it to tier 1. Warlock is harder - Invocations just don't have the overpowered options that spells do. You'd have to give it some serious boosts - perhaps the epic warlock feats that grant a bunch of at-will powers and upgrades to invocations would be a good starting point.

[Xefas]

Here's a brute force idea for Warlock.

Alternate Class Feature: Votary of the Gods Below

As a result of some auspicious circumstances, such as an ancient prophecy or the influence of a promising lineage, you are no mere plaything of a demon prince. Instead, you have been made unto an avatar of some dark deity, or one of the greater demon lords, Graz'zt, Demogorgon, and Orcus, who have personally crafted a sorcerous working of such grand complexity that it allows your mortal frame to sustain energies far beyond your station. The cost to them was great, and so too must their expectations be for you.

Your powers differ from a standard warlock in the following ways.

You receive one Invocation per class level, instead of the progression given on the Warlock class table.
You do not acquire the Fiendish Resilience class feature. Instead, at 8th level, you permanently gain Fast Healing 1. This increases to Fast Healing 2 at 13th level and Fast Healing 5 at 18th level.
The Energy Resistances granted by your Energy Resistance class feature are 5 points higher than normal.
Once per day, you may perform a ritual of obeisance to your patron that begins at dusk and lasts until midnight, which involves sacrifices of blood, a renewal of oaths, and the burning of offerings, the power and worth of which is transferred to your patron's coffers. In exchange for a reminder that you're doing your job well, your patron will expand the demonic mechanisms of power in your soul to afford you an additional Invocation. This can be any preexisting Invocation, or a new Invocation of the Warlock's design and desire, based off of any spell of the appropriate level; 1st or 2nd for Least, 3rd or 4th for Lesser, 5th or 6th for Greater, 7th for Dark. These Invocations may break the normal maximum you are allowed to have based on your level. You still cannot learn Invocations of a tier above your understanding; you must still be at least 6th level to gain a new Lesser Invocation, for example.

A burnt offering with a value of at least 1,000 gold pieces is necessary to acquire a new Least Invocation. A Lesser Invocation is worth 5,000 gold pieces, a Greater Invocation is worth 10,000, and a Dark Invocation is worth 20,000.

Furthermore, there is a cost in soulstuff to be made, to create a conduit by which your master may touch upon your vital essences. Learning a new Least Invocation costs you 250 experience points. A new Lesser Invocation costs you 500xp, and new Greater costs you 1,000xp, and a new Dark costs you 2,000xp. However, you may mitigate these costs with the sacrifice of sapient beings (with an intelligence score of 3 or greater) as part of your ritual. For every life ended in your pursuit of power, negate 50xp from your experience costs.




There, that way you can give your Warlock all the broken, campaign-destroying spells that render your party irrelevant. Later, and fewer, than a Wizard, but infinitely on demand.

[Grod_The_Giant]

So from the nature of your questions, I'm thinking you might not be familiar with what the D&D tier system means. It's a measure of both raw power and versatility. A Tier 1 character can do anything and everything they put their mind to, better than anyone else, with minimal preparation. In 3.5, this translates to "they have a spell for that." You know the jokes about "Bat Shark Repellant?" That's a Tier 1 caster. So yes, a sorcerer with all spells known would be Tier 1.

So let's take a look at your question. The Warmage is an arcane spellcaster whose list is focused on offensive magic. He's got plenty of blasting spells, but not much else. Thus, he's Tier 4-- capable of doing one thing well, but not very useful outside of it. A Wizard is an arcane spellcaster with a generalist list. He's got every type of spell, including all of the most powerful spells. Thus, he's Tier 1-- capable of doing everything very well, potentially to campaign-breaking levels. To elevate the Warmage to that point requires giving him the same type of spell access. A tier 1 Warmage is a Wizard; there really isn't anything else to say.

A Warlock is at least a slightly more interesting question, since they at least use a different mechanic. The simple answer is "more and more powerful invocations." They need options that not only cover all situations, they completely obviate other classes. That's what Tier 1 means. I'm talking scaling Summon Monster as an Invocation; Shadow Evocation and Conjuration; Polymorph and Shapechange; long-range scrying and teleport options... basically just pick the best, nastiest spells and turn them into invocations.

[tsj]

Many interesting suggestions and comments :) a 1000 thanks for that.

I wonder if there are prestige classes and/or feats that will allow a wizard to function just like a warmage (spells in armor and warmage edge stuff) and warlock (at will unlimited casting of select spells ... wasn't there some arch mage class or something?)

That way I could create "variant wizard classes" to suit my needs

[noob]

If you want warlock like stuff the whole class feature of eldritch blast could be just a reserve feat and then the at will spells might work like in 5E: you pick up some low level spells and then you can use them at will(do not do that with high level spells like second level spells(else you will contemplate without any possibility of countering your player casting thousand of summon monster 2 for creating mirror mephits and then casting charm person and hypnosis to make them produce more simulacrum))(level 1 spells at will is already very strong thanks to invisible servitor and Tenser disk of pure overwhelming awesomeness)
Then for simulating war mage with the wizard you could say invent the specialization warmage and make it give some fitting warmage like bonuses(all the sudden feat line can be taken by yourself with the bonus wizard feats) and since you are dropping two schools it is rather balanced.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I wonder if there are prestige classes and/or feats that will allow a wizard to function just like a warmage (spells in armor and warmage edge stuff)
One level of Spellsword (Complete Warrior) will let you cast in light armor. A level of Factotum (Dungeonscape) will get you the ability to add Int to many things, including damage, 1/encounter, and you can take feats to increase that-- but Warmage Edge isn't a huge boost, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.


and warlock (at will unlimited casting of select spells ... wasn't there some arch mage class or something?)
Reserve Feats in Complete Mage offer a variety of supernatural abilities, useable at-will as long as you have an appropriate spell ready but uncast. They usually scale with the level of said spell-- Fiery Burst will do 1d6/level of your highest uncast fire spell, for instance.

[ngilop]

Dragon lane Age of mortals has the War Mage. which is actually best described as the base class but condescend down to 5 levels

You get :
+3 untyped damage per die. (so much better than warmage edge)***+1 per odd level.

your cha mod to AC, well you can give that to anybody honestly. At levels 3 and 5 you can increase the number of people you give this AC boost to by 1.

at 2nd and again at 4th level you spell failure chance drops by 5%

oh and you also get 2 free meta magic feats at 2nd and fourth from a limited list.

SO just go wizard 5 then get into War Mage and Pow now you are a 'tier' 1 Warmage :)