How to Rend Fiends and Immolate People: A Guide to Sorcery

[EvilAnagram]

I don't know. The fact that he hasn't modified the base guide to help Shadow Sorcerer players (I'm sure there are a few black spells that will turn blue thanks to the Hounds of Ill Omen), I don't think it would make much sense for him to change his multiclassing section for something that very few players will use.


Do you have any examples of how the Hound changes things?

[strangebloke]

I don't know. The fact that he hasn't modified the base guide to help Shadow Sorcerer players (I'm sure there are a few black spells that will turn blue thanks to the Hounds of Ill Omen), I don't think it would make much sense for him to change his multiclassing section for something that very few players will use.


I think this is the inherent problem with any sorcerer guide. Everything is in context.

For example, greater invisibility, darkness, polymorph, and haste are all great spells, and are even better when twinned, but a character who has all of those spells will be horribly ineffective, unable to cast more than a couple of spells each combat.

You might looking at Fireball and Empowered, and then you realize you already have careful, which you picked up for synergy with hypnotic pattern. Fireball sorta combos with careful, and so fireball might look more enticing... but fireball is then also less enticing, because hypnotic pattern serves a similar purpose.

If you get twinned and heighten on a shadow sorc, you're going to be constantly running out of gas, since Shadow Sorc was already a super high-throttle subclass.

And so on. As the "Help, My Sorcerer Sucks" threads show clearly, a list of awesome spells stacked upon each other does not an effective character make, even if there's synergy between the metamagic and the spells.

Adding to this complexity is the issue of progression. If you have twin, for example, you want to be regularly cycling out low-level twinnable concentration spells and cycling in higher level ones, but this lowers your ability to adapt your list as you advance.

There's so many layers to this stuff, and it's very campaign dependent. Subtle is either totally great, or can be replaced by a skill check, depending on how your DM rules V/S components.

[werescythe]

Do you have any examples of how the Hound changes things? As long as the Hound (or Hounds as it turns out you can have more then 1 just by spending the Sorcery Points) give the character they are attacking disadvantage when defending against spells you cast as long as they are within 5ft of that character.

I just think that there are a few spells that normally are kind of meh (for all the other sorcerers), because of the saves they use, that can become more powerful so long as the hound is within 5ft of your target.

I mean you talk about spells that are great with Draco-sorcerers and Storm-sorcerers (and give them separate ratings based on that). So why not mention the ones that could be great with Shadow Sorcerers? :smallsmile:

Normally one might prefer to use Haste, but in the case that you have a hound (or hounds) near your target(s) Slow could be amazing. Reducing the size of an enemy (Enlarge/Reduce) could also be extremely potent. :smallbiggrin:

[werescythe]

On a separate note, it has dawned on me that by accessing Cleric spells with Divine Soul, you could potentially create a Necromancer themed Sorcerer. Grab the Cleric necromancy spells and perhaps take some cold themed spells from Sorcerer (if you're going the whole Wrath of the Lich King route).

[strangebloke]

On a separate note, it has dawned on me that by accessing Cleric spells with Divine Soul, you could potentially create a Necromancer themed Sorcerer. Grab the Cleric necromancy spells and perhaps take some cold themed spells from Sorcerer (if you're going the whole Wrath of the Lich King route).

Yup. It's very cool, if not overpowered. None of the metamagic really apply to undead you summon. Inspiring leader is better for you, and if you DM lets you, oathbreaker is a great multiclass.

[EvilAnagram]

As long as the Hound (or Hounds as it turns out you can have more then 1 just by spending the Sorcery Points) give the character they are attacking disadvantage when defending against spells you cast as long as they are within 5ft of that character.

The thing is that a sorcerer already has abilities that can inflict disadvantage on a save, and other sorcerers have additional abilities that further hinder the saving throw. The Hound isn't adding anything new to the sorcerer's spellcasting, just a different way to accomplish it.

In your example, even the repeated saves against Slow having disadvantage doesn't change the rating much.

[werescythe]

Yup. It's very cool, if not overpowered. None of the metamagic really apply to undead you summon. Inspiring leader is better for you, and if you DM lets you, oathbreaker is a great multiclass.

Maybe not on the Animate Dead/Create Undead spell, however I assume you can heal/buff your unholy minions. You might be able to buff those spells with metamagic.

One question to ask is if you give an undead minion Dragon's Breath, would it use it or would you have to command them to do so.

Edit:

Now assuming that you don't want to accidentally alienate your party by being a necromancer (the whole reanimation thing), what is another unigue build for Divine Soul Sorcery (aside from being a healer).

[strangebloke]

Maybe not on the Animate Dead/Create Undead spell, however I assume you can heal/buff your unholy minions. You might be able to buff those spells with metamagic.

One question to ask is if you give an undead minion Dragon's Breath, would it use it or would you have to command them to do so.

Edit:

Now assuming that you don't want to accidentally alienate your party by being a necromancer (the whole reanimation thing), what is another unigue build for Divine Soul Sorcery (aside from being a healer).

undead dragon minion can use its breath attack on your command, yeah.

The big thing to realize with the sorcerer subclasses is that none of them are terribly strong; your metamagic and spell selections are going to be much more important. You have to think of divine souls as a lore bard. They can swap out some of their usual spells for the best cleric spells and then build around that.

Animate Dead is a top-tier pick, but so are spirit guardians and spiritual weapon. If you get spirit guardians, don't grab quicken metamagic, since that's going to be the best usage of your bonus action, generally. If you pick up spirit guardians, you should invest in some half-way decent AC or other protection.

Shield of Faith and Sanctuary are great spells to twin. (Sanctuary doesn't use concentration, and can be cast as a bonus action!) Try this on for size: turn1 cast an attack cantrip, then twin cast sanctuary on yourself and your buddy the bard. Turn 2, run into combat and cast spirit guardians on yourself.

There are also a very few cleric spells, like Divine Word whose range specificies it's area of effect. You can use the Distant metamagic on these to massively increase the size of the AoE.

In general, Clerics have a lot of non-concentration buffs/debuffs, so if you're a dedicated buff character, you can load up on stuff like command, sanctuary, and others.

Divine souls are actually pretty bad healers.

This isn't crazy powerful

[werescythe]

undead dragon minion can use its breath attack on your command, yeah.

The big thing to realize with the sorcerer subclasses is that none of them are terribly strong; your metamagic and spell selections are going to be much more important. You have to think of divine souls as a lore bard. They can swap out some of their usual spells for the best cleric spells and then build around that.

Animate Dead is a top-tier pick, but so are spirit guardians and spiritual weapon. If you get spirit guardians, don't grab quicken metamagic, since that's going to be the best usage of your bonus action, generally. If you pick up spirit guardians, you should invest in some half-way decent AC or other protection.

Shield of Faith and Sanctuary are great spells to twin. (Sanctuary doesn't use concentration, and can be cast as a bonus action!) Try this on for size: turn1 cast an attack cantrip, then twin cast sanctuary on yourself and your buddy the bard. Turn 2, run into combat and cast spirit guardians on yourself.

There are also a very few cleric spells, like Divine Word whose range specificies it's area of effect. You can use the Distant metamagic on these to massively increase the size of the AoE.

In general, Clerics have a lot of non-concentration buffs/debuffs, so if you're a dedicated buff character, you can load up on stuff like command, sanctuary, and others.

Divine souls are actually pretty bad healers.

This isn't crazy powerful

Yeah, I figured that was probably the way to do it. Just pick out a few cleric spells and build around it.

And who doesn't love Spiritual Weapon? One of the funest spells in the base cleric list, just watch the new Critical Role season and you know what I mean. :)

Plus you can Extend it. Lol.

[werescythe]

The Giant Soul Sorcerer from the UA seems awfully spread out to me. What do all of you think?

[RoseTheLesbian]

When do you guys think that the guide will be updated with the new subraces in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? Furthermore, what are all of your thoughts on the Eladrin?

[EvilAnagram]

When do you guys think that the guide will be updated with the new subraces in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? Furthermore, what are all of your thoughts on the Eladrin?

I found the Tome of Foes to be pretty disappointing, so I didn't purchase it. When I have time (and I have a pregnant wife and lots of work-related travel, so I don't) I'll look them up. Until then, if it gives you a charisma boost it's probably fine.

[RoseTheLesbian]

I found the Tome of Foes to be pretty disappointing, so I didn't purchase it. When I have time (and I have a pregnant wife and lots of work-related travel, so I don't) I'll look them up. Until then, if it gives you a charisma boost it's probably fine.


Alright, thank you!

[werescythe]

The new Unearthed Arcana looks pretty awesome. Changelings got buffed, one of the Shifters is now kind of sorcerer material and the Kalashtar could be really amazing.

For the Kalashtar can have +2 CHR, psychic damage residence (meh), speak telepathically with friends (almost like multiclassing into GOO warlock), gaining advantage on one of a select list of skills (advantage on Intimidation for a dragon sorcerer sounds fun) and you're immune to magic that affects your dreams (you can still fall asleep).

It comes with plenty of roleplaying abilities if the GM allows the "spirit" to belong to the source of your sorcerer (dragon for dragon sorcerer, stuff like that).

I already have an idea for a dragon priestess (just a dragon sorcerer who is a part of a religious community that worships her draconic father) who is a Kalashtar.

[werescythe]

My opinions on the new UA races.
-The updated changelings are great.
-The Kalashtar are also pretty good (as I already stated).
-When it comes to the Shifters only one seems to be decent that being the Swiftstride, which adds a new interesting way to play.
-If you wanted to be a Warforged, the Envoy subrace is really the best way to go.

[TeeEight888]

Hey so, I made a Shadow Sorcerer in a game i'm in. I'm planning to go Hexblade after i reach Level 3 or 4 with my Sorc.
I'm thinking of going up to Level 5 with the Warlock class to unlock Thirsting Blade.

Honestly, I'm considering the Fighter Class as well since I really want to try being a Melee Sorc, I saw on the guide here that Dual Wielder isn't a good idea, i'm wondering why?

I'm wondering how to build this character honestly while staying true to his concept.

[EvilAnagram]

Hey so, I made a Shadow Sorcerer in a game i'm in. I'm planning to go Hexblade after i reach Level 3 or 4 with my Sorc.
I'm thinking of going up to Level 5 with the Warlock class to unlock Thirsting Blade.

Honestly, I'm considering the Fighter Class as well since I really want to try being a Melee Sorc, I saw on the guide here that Dual Wielder isn't a good idea, i'm wondering why?

I'm wondering how to build this character honestly while staying true to his concept.
Classes with a lot of potential bonus actions make poor two-weapon fighters because there are multiple abilities competing for that bonus action. Sorcerers in particular also have access to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, which are often more useful to them than two-weapon fighting without considerable multiclassing.

[WilliamHuggins]

Felt like the right place to ask as both search function and a google search failed to answer but I do not want to clutter the forum for asking a simple question, it seems obvious to me but I am having this argument with someone at the moment, about Draconic Bloodline's level 18 ability Draconic Presence, looking at the way it is worded failing the saving throw means the creature falls under the effects of the frightened/charmed condition for the duration of the aura which is at most 1 minutes (10 rounds) and they do NOT get to make another saving throw at the end of their turns (unlike the Frightful Presence the dragons in the MM have), it lasts until the aura ends no matter what (unless it is dispelled of course), whether it is that aura ended naturally by its duration or you failed a constitution saving throw to mantain concentration. Am I right?

[strangebloke]

Felt like the right place to ask as both search function and a google search failed to answer but I do not want to clutter the forum for asking a simple question, it seems obvious to me but I am having this argument with someone at the moment, about Draconic Bloodline's level 18 ability Draconic Presence, looking at the way it is worded failing the saving throw means the creature falls under the effects of the frightened/charmed condition for the duration of the aura which is at most 1 minutes (10 rounds) and they do NOT get to make another saving throw at the end of their turns (unlike the Frightful Presence the dragons in the MM have), it lasts until the aura ends no matter what (unless it is dispelled of course), whether it is that aura ended naturally by its duration or you failed a constitution saving throw to mantain concentration. Am I right?

Correct, the first time you are in the aura, you makes a save. If you succeed, you're immune to the aura, if you fail, you're frightened or charmed until the minute is up.

[WilliamHuggins]

Thank you, I was having an argument with someone over whether the reason that 24 hour immunity exists is because of the insane duration of the effect or not, I had an homebrew feature at the same level that had to use its bonus action each round to to force wisdom saving throw for 1 round of fear effect, and he was insisting it should have the same 24 hour immunity on success...

Cheers and thank you again.

[samcifer]

You mark Earth Tremor as red, but I can think of a use for it: A sorcadin or melee sorlock who whats a quick way to gain advantage with doesn't require concentration. Quicken it and anyone knocked prone grants advantage for a round for you and your allies. You don't even need to use up concentration on it.

[EvilAnagram]

You mark Earth Tremor as red, but I can think of a use for it: A sorcadin or melee sorlock who whats a quick way to gain advantage with doesn't require concentration. Quicken it and anyone knocked prone grants advantage for a round for you and your allies. You don't even need to use up concentration on it.

Fair point.

[MightyDuck]

The sorcerer's level 20 class feature, sorcerous restoration, isn't listed in the class feature. Is this intentional or just a mistake? Sorry if someone has already brought this up or if its explained somewhere but I was a bit confused as to why its missing.

[EvilAnagram]

The sorcerer's level 20 class feature, sorcerous restoration, isn't listed in the class feature. Is this intentional or just a mistake? Sorry if someone has already brought this up or if its explained somewhere but I was a bit confused as to why its missing.

It was accidentally deleted during a revision. Good catch!

[KyleG]

SO im going to play a character who has a 'curse' on her which is her warlock status. This is being used to render her sorcerer powers hidden.
MY question is simple i hope
If we start at level 1 i will have to go warlock first...how many levels in a row and/or in total should i then take in warlock?...im thinking MAX would be 6 for story.

On the other hand we may start at level 3 in which case my question is Should i choose Sorceror as the level 1 character and build some warlock levels in subsequently or should is it better that warlock is treated as the first class?

[Destructor]

Wizard: Don't cast spells with your dump stat.


Wizard 2 can be good for a draconic sorcerer. Get lore mastery and now every spell you cast has +CHA modifier to damage and resistance to the damage type for 1 sorcery point.

EDIT: also to get ritual casting

[TheUser]

Wizard 2 can be good for a draconic sorcerer. Get lore mastery and now every spell you cast has +CHA modifier to damage and resistance to the damage type for 1 sorcery point.

EDIT: also to get ritual casting

Draconic Sorcerer/Invoker 2 (evocation) is the greatest sorcerer I've played to date.

Ritual Casting + Sculpt spells with empower and draconic boost is legit broken AF.

Most fun character I've ever played.

EDIT: It also so gives a nice surge in spells to prepare at level 1 that don't rely on int like shield and absorb elements

[Ortho]

Question on Quickened Spell: Do you actually get to cast two spells a turn? PHB says that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast another on the same turn.

[strangebloke]

Question on Quickened Spell: Do you actually get to cast two spells a turn? PHB says that if you cast a spell as a bonus action, you can't cast another on the same turn.

You can't cast two leveled spells on the same turn. You can cast a quickened spell, and a cantrip, though.

So the real way to think about quicken isn't "I can cast two spells" its "I can cast a spell and do something else with my action."

In general, it isn't very good unless you have something that isn't a spell that's really good. At low levels you will sometimes find that quickening a spell and then dodging is a good strategy. Quicken a spell and dash. The question you have to ask yourself is:

"do I really need to cast this spell this turn?"

-and-

"Is what I'm doing with my action worth a second level spell slot?"

[Galithar]

It's also good for using spells that have a consistent need to use your action. (Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Enervation) and still cast another leveled spell while you're using it. It's pretty powerful, but like many things with the Sorcerer it has to be properly planned and set up.

[Godshoe]

Hi there!
This guide is absolutely excellent, EvilAnagram, as all your others.
May I ask, what you think about Giant Soul UA bloodline? How broken is it?

[Ortho]

You can't cast two leveled spells on the same turn. You can cast a quickened spell, and a cantrip, though.

So the real way to think about quicken isn't "I can cast two spells" its "I can cast a spell and do something else with my action."


I know a lot of people who have misinterpreted that particular minutia. Thank you for the clarification.

[paladinn]

A couple of ideas addressing the perceived disparity between wizards and sorcerers:

1. Have sorcerers use the optional spell point system from the DMG. Put all one's spell points and sorcery points into one pool, to be used as the player wishes: spells or metamagic or whatever.

2. Add the sorcerer's charisma bonus to the magic pool. This would slightly increase the amount of magic available daily.

3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.

I've seen option 1 suggested before; I don't think I've seen option 2, and I don't know of a good option 3 either.

Any thoughts? OP or crazy or too complicated or ?

Gratzi!

[bendking]

A couple of ideas addressing the perceived disparity between wizards and sorcerers:

1. Have sorcerers use the optional spell point system from the DMG. Put all one's spell points and sorcery points into one pool, to be used as the player wishes: spells or metamagic or whatever.

2. Add the sorcerer's charisma bonus to the magic pool. This would slightly increase the amount of magic available daily.

3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.

I've seen option 1 suggested before; I don't think I've seen option 2, and I don't know of a good option 3 either.

Any thoughts? OP or crazy or too complicated or ?

Gratzi!

3. The draconic sorcerer is a the generic option already.

And anyway, I don't think there is much of a disparity between Wizards and Sorcerers.
Wizards get to be a swiss-knife with a lot of solutions to many situations, while Sorcerers get more potent spells via Metamagic and are more useful in combat I would say.

[Revaros]

My fav. Sorcerer is a Paladin. Paladin 6 / Sorcerer 12 / Fighter 2. Gish smite all day, sometimes double with Action Surge.

[RulesJD]

I know a lot of people who have misinterpreted that particular minutia. Thank you for the clarification.

That's not actually accurate and is cause of a LOT of misunderstanding.

You can cast two leveled spells on a single turn. Examples:

1. You move away from a creature on your turn, it makes an attack of opportunity against you. You cast Shield (a level 1 spell) so the attack misses. You then keep moving 10 feet away. You can cast any leveled spell you want that uses your Action, but you cannot cast any spell (leveled or otherwise, aka Shillelagh) that uses your Bonus Action.

2. You use your Action to cast a spell on your turn. An enemy attempts to Counterspell. You can still use your Reaction to cast a Counterspell (a leveled spell).

3. You use your Action to cast a spell on your turn. Because you have at least two levels in Fighter, you can then Action Surge and cast another spell that uses your Action.

The general rule is: If you cast any spell with your Bonus Action at any point on your turn, you cannot cast anything other than a cantrip for the rest of your turn. If your Bonus Action is not used to cast any spell, you can do whatever you want for spell casting within the normal rules (one Reaction per round, etc.).

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Sorry if someone's already pointed this out, but Tempest Cleric is probably worth a two level dip on a Storm Sorcerer (or lightning element Dragon I suppose). You get some overlap with the 1st level ability, but heavy armor+shields, martial weapons, and the ability to deal maximum damage to every target you hit with a thunder or lightning spell 1/day (not to mention the utility of extra cantrips and 1st level spells) is well worth being behind on spells known. Requires some investment in STR to wear the heavy armor, but means you can dump Dex, so I'd call it net even there.

[bendking]

Sorry if someone's already pointed this out, but Tempest Cleric is probably worth a two level dip on a Storm Sorcerer (or lightning element Dragon I suppose). You get some overlap with the 1st level ability, but heavy armor+shields, martial weapons, and the ability to deal maximum damage to every target you hit with a thunder or lightning spell 1/day (not to mention the utility of extra cantrips and 1st level spells) is well worth being behind on spells known. Requires some investment in STR to wear the heavy armor, but means you can dump Dex, so I'd call it net even there.

Indeed. It's pretty much the only way to make the Storm Sorcerer viable.

[werescythe]

So what do you all think of that new Aberrant Soul Sorcerer origin that showed up in the UA?

[Corallion]

Hey EvilAnagram, great guide! I tend to read your guides when i'm about to create a new character.
That said, i'm planning on creating an aberrant mind sorcerer, and would like to know your opinion on the subclass.
Thanks in advance!

[Katvrouw]

3. There needs to be a good "generic" sorcerer origin for a player that doesn't feel enamored with weather, stone, shadow, the divine, etc.

I don't actually agree. Sorcery is not a generic experience. Having magic welling up inside you spontaneously, without having studied it, made a pact with some entity, etc., is meant to be an unusual thing. It doesn't happen to just anyone — there has to be a reason for it. Something strange about you, and that something is going to be something specific. Could be something elemental, fey, divine, whatever, but it's going to be something. The idea of a generic sorcerer doesn't really make sense.

It's like saying there needs to be an option for a warlock who doesn't want to have a patron, or wants one that's generic and uninteresting and doesn't really influence them in any way. It kind of negates the whole point of the class...

[Katvrouw]

And on the topic of sorcerous origins — any chance of eventually adding the newer sorcerous origins to this guide? Sea sorcery, phoenix, etc.?

My longest-running character is a sea sorcerer. I really like that origin, although partly just for flavour, as the character in question is also a selkie (from a homebrew version of that race). A few of my thoughts on its abilities:

Soul of the Sea is useful IF you're not already playing an aquatic race, though in practice a lot of people who would choose this origin probably are...
Curse of the Sea is very handy at lower levels, less so as you go up in level because the bonuses it gives you aren't as significant once you gain more powerful spells.
Watery Defence — the fire resistance is a definite plus, while the turning-to-water thing is only occasionally useful, but can be a lifesaver (sometimes literally) in a pinch.
Shifting Form and Water Soul I don't have yet, as I'm only level 10, but they sound pretty cool! We'll see how they work out in practice once I get there...

Really, though, I think my finest sea sorcery moment thus far was hitting my entire party with Tidal Wave the other night... After first shouting "I SWEAR TO GOD IF YOU DON'T ALL STOP FIGHTING I WILL DOUSE YOU LIKE A PACK OF FERAL CATS!" (my character is normally the patient, sensible one in the group, but it had been a rough night, and everyone has limits...:smallsmile:).

[horsewithnonick]

I'm new here, and far from an expert, but I don't get why Extended Spell rates so low - Shield, Blade Ward, and Color Spray are all terrific low level spells whose main limitation is that they last just 1 round. Casting any of those with a 2 or 4 round duration, long enough to enjoy the benefits for most of a fight, seems worthy of greater than a trash rating.

[Galithar]

I'm new here, and far from an expert, but I don't get why Extended Spell rates so low - Shield, Blade Ward, and Color Spray are all terrific low level spells whose main limitation is that they last just 1 round. Casting any of those with a 2 or 4 round duration, long enough to enjoy the benefits for most of a fight, seems worthy of greater than a trash rating.

The affected spell must already have a duration of at least 1minute. So sadly shield is not a valid extended spell.

[horsewithnonick]

The affected spell must already have a duration of at least 1minute. So sadly shield is not a valid extended spell.


Shoot, I missed that. What a horrible thing to do to that ability.

[Theaitetos]

Extended is a good metamagic for Divine Soul sorcerers though, as many of the cleric spells have good durations to be extended, like Aid, Death Ward, Spirit Guardians, Regenerate, or Aura of Vitality.

[MaxWilson]

Shoot, I missed that. What a horrible thing to do to that ability.

I know, it's frustrating. Extended Spell is useful on a handful of spells (Aid, Aura of Vitality, Healing Spirit, Mage Armor, Conjure Animals, Foresight) but many of those spells aren't on the sorcerer spell list, and there are so many things you'd expect to be able to do with it that just don't work, and it isn't clear why.

Extended Shield should be a thing but it isn't, unless the DM overrules the PHB.

[sambojin]

From a DM fiat perspective, letting a few spells that normally can't be metamagic'd in certain ways, be metamagic'd that way, into a campaign isn't that bad.

I mean, I'm always leaving magical two-handers around for GWMs, but they'd be a bow if that character was a shooter instead, or a halberd/spear/staff for a PAM. I leave spell scrolls or mini-spellbooks around for wizards. I tend to let druids see creatures that might be specifically useful, and give that little bit of extra guidance to clerics.

There's thieves guilds in some cities, or churches, or druiding circles, or wizards that will help a young up-and-comer. Need non-metal heavy armour? There's a place you can get that, it's actually a stock-in-trade for some druids, but you'll probably have to do something for them first.

Putting a treatise on true dragon magic, or a scroll of the revelations of Saint McTough, or giving you a vision during a particularly awesome thunder storm to explain why you now *can* cast extended Shield is pretty easy. It lets me pick and choose what you can do, but is really no different than me not rolling on random item tables for gear drops, or me being nice and changing a God's shrine into one you actually would worship at in a pre-written adventure, from a bend-the-rules perspective. If it gets OP, you have a disastrous sorcerer brain-burn-out of some sort, and then you all-of-a-sudden can't do it anymore. Problem solved.

I mean, you learnt the spell (a finite resource for Sorcs) and the metamagic. Fighters use that argument all the time on why they *need* a specific magic weapon (awww, but I put stats and feats into it, so I should get the thing I need to use them), so why not a few extra-meta'd spells for a Sorc? I'm bending the rules for the fighter, surely a boosted spell or two can't be any more broken than an optimized fighter or wizard in a campaign?

Explain it to your DM like that and they probably will let you have a couple, even if it is breaking the rules. It might not fly in AL, but I'm sure most other DMs would be fine with it.

[BurgTurdler]

Hey Peeps, I asked about this a few years ago (it's gone now, I looked) but I just wrapped a seven year game. I FINALLY GET TO MAKE A NEW CHARACTER! YAY!! So I'm ready to revisit it and there's a TON of new stuff out now, so that's awesome. Hopefully you guys can help me.

I start this Saturday at level 1 and I want to do all the lightning. The plan so far is that I'm going with Storm Sorc. with a dip into Tempest Cleric. Basically, I want all the Lightning spells. The three ways I can think of to get Call Lightning are a 6 level dip into Druid, a 6 level dip into Bard, or a 5 level dip into Tempest Cleric. Having to dip into anything more than 2 levels means I don't get the sweet Level 18 feature though.

Shocking grasp, lightning lure, witchbolt, lightning bolt, chain lightning, storm sphere, .... Am I forgetting any? Those are all within my reach I think.

Am I way off on this? Can you think of a better way? Or maybe, what's some other "the best way to get all the lightning spells" in one character and just forget the above?

I've already got a 3 page backstory written up for this character so I think I want to stick with Sorc for the first level. And obviously Elemental Adaptation will be grabbed too.

Thanks so much (in advance) for your help everyone!!:smallcool:

[thestatusjoe]

I start this Saturday at level 1 and I want to do all the lightning. The plan so far is that I'm going with Storm Sorc. with a dip into Tempest Cleric. Basically, I want all the Lightning spells. The three ways I can think of to get Call Lightning are a 6 level dip into Druid, a 6 level dip into Bard, or a 5 level dip into Tempest Cleric. Having to dip into anything more than 2 levels means I don't get the sweet Level 18 feature though.


If I was your DM and you had a 3 page backstory written, I'd just put that spell on the sorc list for you. The only way I'm aware of to get this spell as a sorcerer without multiclassing is just asking your DM.

[follacchioso]

Tempestuous Magic from Storm Sorcery should be rated higher.

It is a great feature that allows you to:
- escape any grapple without rolling a contest
- Put yourself out of Melee Range
- Give you 10' of range for your spells
- It is even one of the few ways to escape a Forcecage (with polymorph)

[Evaar]

If I was your DM and you had a 3 page backstory written, I'd just put that spell on the sorc list for you. The only way I'm aware of to get this spell as a sorcerer without multiclassing is just asking your DM.

That or taking the Izzet Engineer background from Ravnica, which is basically like asking your DM.

[Starman973]

Subtle Spell: It provides situational advantages that allow you to cast when you are Silenced or when being caught casting would be detrimental to your plans.

Don't forget this ability also allows you to not be counter spelled.

[MaxWilson]

Don't forget this ability also allows you to not be counter spelled.

...sometimes, arguably. It doesn't remove Material components so for sure spells like Subtle Fireball can still be Counterspelled, but for VS-only spells that become no-component spells, ask your DM. It's basically the same question as "can spells cast from items (therefore with no components) still be Counterspelled?"

[Klorox]

Subtle Spell: It provides situational advantages that allow you to cast when you are Silenced or when being caught casting would be detrimental to your plans.

Don't forget this ability also allows you to not be counter spelled.

Careful, I got a warning here for thread necromancy on a different guide. I don't think there's a :rolleyes: smilie.