multiple shape shifts stacking?

[kulosle]

So i've been looking at the primeval prestige class. And trying to come up with a good build for it. And it lead to some interesting questions: do bonuses that you get from multiple forms of shifting stack? so if you were a shifter with pre errata werethouched master, could you do that and primeval? what about bear warriors transformation? By RAW i think they do. My group makes permanent rules about these things by putting it to a vote. should they stack? would you allow it? why?

my argument would be that if i was an awakened bear with primeval i'd still get the bonuses for shifting into a dire eagle. so why not someone who shifted into a bear and then into a dire eagle?

[Flickerdart]

It depends on what the ability is.

If it's based on alter self or alternate form, there are clauses of the "you lose everything on your previous body" variety.

If it's based on a unique thing, like claws of the werebear, there is usually no such clause.

[OldTrees1]

Replacements do not stack with each other.
Alterations stack with each other and with up to 1 replacement.
Bonuses of the same type(ex: Enhancement bonus to Str) do not stack, but untyped bonuses do stack.

The Shifter race's Shifting racial trait is an alteration(you remain a shifter while shifting)
Bear Warrior's Bear Form class feature is a replacement(you turn into a bear)
Weretouched Master's Alternate Form class feature is a replacement(you turn into an animal)
Weretouched Master's Weretouched III class feature is an alteration(you remain a shifter while shifting)
Primeval's Primeval Form class feature is a replacement(you turn into that form)

So Alternate Form into a Bear, Bear Form to turn into a Bear, and Primeval Form to turn into something will not stack with each other. Otherwise it would all stack.

[Beheld]

Factually, you can stack any number of replacements. There are no true replacements in D&D 3.5. Each effect describes what it does and does not change, and you could stack multiple weird things on top of each other.

So for example, Shapechange takes away your supernatural abilities and gives you the supernatural abilities of your original form. You keep SLAs and Spells (in fact, all of Shapechange, Polymorph Any Object, Polymorph, and Alter Self allow you to retain "all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels" and "You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form").

Polymorph Any Object acts like Polymorph, but also changes your Int score to that of the new form.

Polymorph gives you Extraordinary special attacks, but not the qualities, however it still takes away extraordinary special qualities of the previous form. Does not effect Supernatural at all.

Alter Self takes extraordinary attacks and qualities of the prior form, and gives you none not listed in the description of what is grants you.

So if you shapechange into a Choker, then polymorph any object into some Huge creature with absurd stats that is an outsider, then alter self into a Dwarf Ancestor, you are person who casts spells like you used to, has a Chocker extra standard action, has the physical scores and the Int score of whatever you PaOed into, and the outer form of a Dwarf Ancestor with the attached Natural Armor. (Dwarf Ancestors are large right?)

However, even if you found a shapechange like spell that granted you one thing, but allowed you to retain your previous forms version, you couldn't stack them because of how combining magical effects works:

"Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts."

So you can only stack different sources of shapechanging on top of each other.

Alternate Form is especially good because it does retains all special qualities and supernatural attacks except breath weapons and gazes, so you can Shapechange into something with really good supernatural and extraordinary special qualities, or supernatural attacks, and then Alternate Form into something with good raw physical scores and extraordinary special attacks.

[kulosle]

So it seems that by raw it does work the way i thought. But would you allow that as a dm? what sense does it make game play wise?

[OldTrees1]

So it seems that by raw it does work the way i thought. But would you allow that as a dm? what sense does it make game play wise?

Yes, I would allow it. Thematically it is merely the application of an ability to alter one's form on an ability to temporary switch one's form. Casting Bull's Strength while Polymorphed is an equivalent example.

[Beheld]

So it seems that by raw it does work the way i thought. But would you allow that as a dm? what sense does it make game play wise?

As a DM I have no problem, because being used by spellcasters, each successive version is so much worse that being shapechanged into something is probably at least as good if not better than being shapechanged the polymorphed. Non casters, well... stacking transformations isn't that big a deal.