Way of Four Elements Monk Remastered

[Dralnu]

Way of Four Elements Monk Remastered (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwNDM2My1XeWFYSDA/view?usp=sharing)
Person_Man's version (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1pdYIcfHauwT0tzdmFjeXBHY1U/view?usp=sharing)

Recently made some updates to the PDF. Altered the layout a bit, fixed some names, made it so you could use Fist of the Elements on your unarmed strikes since the errata made that no longer valid, etc.

[Mith]

Has this been play tested as well? Looks really good.

[Dralnu]

Yeah it's been playtested quite extensivelyt. I've heard reports from people running it in their games. There was a lot of debate and number crunching when this project was crowdsourced and eventually completed.

I still tweak things when needed but its pretty much "done" at this point.

[Mith]

Cool. I might print this out for a substitute material for the 4 elements Monk. From what I can tell, there is no need for one to own the Elemental Evil Companion Book, correct?

[Dralnu]

You only need access to the free EE Player's Companion (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf) pdf if you want to take advantage of all the options. Otherwise ignore all the options with * at the end.

[Dralnu]

I've come up with a new discipline but the wording is tricky. If I could get help cleaning up the sentence that'd be great

Rising Tides (monk lvl 3)

Whenever you make a melee attack, your ranged attacks gain a +1 attack bonus and saving throws imposed by your ranged attacks gain a +1 DC until the end of your next turn.

Whenever you make a ranged attack, your melee attacks gain a +1 attack bonus and saving throws imposed by your melee attacks gain a +1 DC until the end of your next turn.


W4E gets the equivalent of half Sharpshooter (+2). It applies to a wider array of abilities, but keep in mind the Fighter archer is using the bow 99% of the time regardless while that's not the case for W4E, so this is less of a straight bonus and more of necessity by design. Also the W4E has to stick to a cycling routine to get maximum benefit, and doesn't benefit from this during the first attack of combat.


Then Unrelenting Flames gets moved to level 11 (where Monk's DPR has fallen off significantly) as the damage equivalent:

Unrelenting Flames (monk lvl 11)

Whenever you make a melee attack, your ranged attacks gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls until the end of your next turn.

Whenever you make a ranged attack, your melee attacks gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls until the end of your next turn.

[ZickZak]

I love it. I m level 7 now.

The Eyes of Fire should be changed to Truesight. InfraVision is ultimate counter against everything and anything hiding around you and going through walls... its a bit weird. Automatically countering Illusions and seeing Ethernal plane doesnt come to play so often but its absolutely thematic and I play it that way.
The ki points you can use (1/2 of the level) is a bit too much. At level 13, monk can cast 6th level spells while other spell oriented 1/3 archetypes (EK & AT) can cast 3rd and even 1/2 spellers (Paladin & Ranger) 4th level.


Note:
I play it as an archer, so instead of magical fists its magical bow and I needed to add +1 to dmg and +1 to hit to be on the right curve. I would like to see some ranged disciples added, like +1d8 fire dmg on hit for 1 ki point, like the fire snake hands or whatever.

[Dralnu]

Thanks for the input!

I'll change Eyes of Fire to Truesight. I didn't realize infravision was so powerful.

Amount of ki points spent is tricky. At 13th level, the EK/AT knows 9 spells, has more useful cantrips (GFB, Booming Blade), and has 3 abilities. The Elemental Monk knows 6 spells/abilities depending on what you choose. 12 vs 6 spells/abilities, that's half. I think that allows Elemental more wiggle room in terms of spell level.


Note:
I play it as an archer, so instead of magical fists its magical bow and I needed to add +1 to dmg and +1 to hit to be on the right curve. I would like to see some ranged disciples added, like +1d8 fire dmg on hit for 1 ki point, like the fire snake hands or whatever.

I'm open to suggestions on this one.

[MoleMage]

Another concern with ki points is that nothing gets 6th or higher spell slots more than 1/long rest. Even Warlocks had to have their special rule for spells 6th and up (Mystic Arcanum). A 12th level wizard who wants to drop a 6th level slot can only do it once. A 12th level Wo4E monk can drop two 6th level slot equivalents. Now, a lot of the reasons why this is necessary are actual spells of 6th or higher rather than spells cast in higher slots, but it does bear mentioning.

[Dralnu]

Another concern with ki points is that nothing gets 6th or higher spell slots more than 1/long rest. Even Warlocks had to have their special rule for spells 6th and up (Mystic Arcanum). A 12th level wizard who wants to drop a 6th level slot can only do it once. A 12th level Wo4E monk can drop two 6th level slot equivalents. Now, a lot of the reasons why this is necessary are actual spells of 6th or higher rather than spells cast in higher slots, but it does bear mentioning.

Alright, I'll change the cap to 5.

Changelog:

You can spend ki points to increase a spell's level equal to half your monk level, to a maximum of 5
Eyes of Fire changed from infravision to truesight
Fist of Unbroken Air reworked: "When you use the Attack action on your turn, you can initiate this maneuver to cause condensed bursts of air to erupt from from your fists and feet. Your unarmed strikes are treated as 15-foot ranged attacks for that action, as well as the rest of the turn. If such an attack hits, you may spend 1 ki point to push the target back 10 feet and knock it prone."

[Ghost Dragon]

Hey Dral,

I was working on my own remaster for The Way of the Four Elements when I came across this... It's awesome! I have since used a lot of this material to complete my own, with the only real difference the addition of disciplines that are "Stances" and the fact that the reduction in ki point cost for other "spell" disciplines is in effect only when the monk is in a stance related to the same element.

I am in no way suggesting you change your iteration of this subclass, actually would just like your (and others) opinion of my take on it regards flavour and balance as I wish to offer it to my players. On the other hand if you like anything here please feel free to take any and all of it.



Initiate of the Way

When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn how to manipulate the four elements in subtle ways. You learn two of the following cantrips: elemental attunement, control flames, gust, mold earth, shape water. You learn one additional cantrip from this list at 6th, and 11th level.

Disciple of the Elements

When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of the four elements. Some disciplines known as a stance can be activated and remain until dismissed, whereas others require a ki point cost. Disciplines and their associated elements are detailed in their descriptions below. For example, Sweeping Cinder Strikes states in its description that it is a Fire discipline. You learn two elemental disciplines of your choice, one of which must be a stance as detailed in the sections below. You learn two additional elemental disciplines of your choice at 6th, 11th, and 17th level. Whenever you learn a new elemental discipline, you can also replace one elemental discipline that you already know with a different discipline.
Casting Elemental Spells. Some elemental disciplines allow you to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting. To cast one of these spells, you use its casting time and other rules, but you don’t need to provide material components for it.
Using Elemental Stances. Elemental disciplines known as stances are attuned to one of the four elements as detailed in its description below. For example, Fangs of the Fire Snake states in its description that is a Fire Stance. An elemental stance is a fighting style you maintain and in addition to the benefits a stance grants, any discipline that casts a spell associated with the element of a stance you are maintaining has its base ki cost reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1). For example, if you are maintaining Fangs of the Fire Snake and you use the elemental discipline Sweeping Cinder Strikes to cast burning hands, the cost is reduced from 2 ki points to 1 ki point. You may only maintain one elemental stance at a time. You can enter a stance as a bonus action, and you can use a bonus action to end one stance and begin another, or you can choose to simply end your current stance (no action required). Your stance also ends if you are incapacitated, knocked unconscious, or if you die.

Adept of the Way
Once you reach 5th level in this class, you can spend additional ki points to increase the level of an elemental discipline spell that you cast, provided that the spell has an enhanced effect at a higher level, as burning hands does. The spell's level increases by 1 for each additional ki point you spend. The maximum number of ki points you can spend to cast a spell in this way (including its base ki point cost and any additional ki points you spend to increase its level) is half your monk level (rounded down) to a maximum of 6 ki points.

Master of the Way
Once your reach 17th level in this class you can maintain two stance disciplines at the same time. You must still enter each stance using separate bonus actions. If you maintain two stances from different elements, the difficulty of balancing two opposing elements within you prevents you from using any other disciplines that cast spells. If you maintain two stances from the same element, you may use other disciplines that cast spells, but only those that are associated with the same element of the stances you are maintaining.

Cantrips

The cantrips control flames, gust, mold earth & shape water are detailed in the Elemental Evil players companion.

Elemental Disciplines
The elemental disciplines are presented in alphabetical order. If a discipline requires a level, you must be that level in this class to learn the discipline.
Avatar of Flame (17th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 7 ki points to cast investiture of flame.
Avatar of Ice (17th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 7 ki points to cast investiture of ice.
Avatar of Stone (17th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 7 ki points to cast investiture of stone.
Avatar of Wind (17th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 7 ki points to cast investiture of wind.
Breath of the Gold Dragon (6th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast Aganazzar’s scorcher.
Burst of Earths Fury (11th Level Required). You can spend 4ki points to cast erupting earth.
Breath of Winter (17th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 6 ki points to cast cone of cold.
Clench of the North Wind (6th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast hold person.
Cliff Strider (6th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast spider climb, targeting yourself.
Cloak of Fire. Fire stance. While maintaining this stance you cause ripples of flame to ignite over your skin. You gain resistance to fire and cold damage. As a reaction when you are hit with a melee attack, you may spend 2 ki points and the attacking creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. It takes 3d10 fire damage plus 1d10 fire damage for each additional ki point you spend and the creature also can’t take reactions until the start of its next turn. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and it can still take reactions.
Clutch of the Deep (17th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 6 ki points to cast maelstrom.
Crushing Hand of the Mountain (6th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast Maximillion’s earthen grasp.
Enduring Earth (11th Level Required). Earth stance. While maintaining this stance, you sink your feet into the ground, becoming the mountain. You double in dimensions increasing your size category by one, your speed becomes 15 feet, and you cannot be moved, pushed, grappled, frightened, or knocked prone against your will even if magically compelled to do so. Non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage that you take is reduced by 2. Whenever you take damage, you can choose to spend 2 ki points and reduce the damage from that attack by 3d8, plus an extra 1d8 reduction in damage for each additional ki point you spend.
Eternal Mountain Defense (11th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 5 ki points to cast stoneskin, targeting yourself.
Eyes of the Salamander (11th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast Melf’s minute meteors.
Fang of the Frost Wolf. Water discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast ice knife.
Fangs of the Fire Snake. Fire stance. While maintaining this stance you can cause tendrils of flame to stretch out from your fists and feet. Your reach with your unarmed strikes increases by 10 feet. When you hit with an attack it deals fire damage instead of bludgeoning damage, and if you spend 1 ki point when the attack hits, it also deals an extra 1d10 fire damage.
Fist of Four Thunders. Air discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast thunderwave.
Fist of Unbroken Air. Air stance. While maintaining this stance you can use the Attack action to create a blast of compressed air that strikes like a mighty fist. You choose a creature within 30 feet of you, and it must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you can push the creature up to 20 feet away from you and knock it prone. You can choose to spend 2 ki points when targeting the creature and it also takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t push it or knock it prone.
Flames of the Phoenix (11th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast fireball.
Flow of the River (6th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast misty step.
Font of Life. Water stance. While maintaining this stance, motes of water float about you, energizing your allies close by. Once per turn when you hit an enemy with an attack, an ally of your choice that is adjacent to you gains temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier. When an ally gains temporary hit points from this discipline, you may also spend 1 ki point to grant it a saving throw against an ongoing effect with a bonus to that saving throw equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Grasping Tide (11th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast slow.
Gong of the Summit (6th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast shatter.
Healing Stream. Water discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast cure wounds.
Heart of the Firelord (17th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 6 ki points to cast immolate.
Immortal Ocean (11th Level Required). Water stance. While maintaining this stance, you and your gear become translucent and appear to be made entirely of water. If you drop to 0 hit points and don’t die outright, you can make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, you drop to 1 hit point instead. Each time you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10. Whenever you succeed on one of these saving throws, you may spend 2 ki points and regain 3d8 hit points plus an extra 1d8 hit points for each additional ki point you spend.
Mist Walk (11th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast gaseous form, targeting yourself.
Mountains Hide. Earth Stance. While maintaining this stance, your eyes glow yellow and the mountains fortitude is gifted to allies nearby. Once per turn when you hit an enemy with an attack, an ally of your choice adjacent to you gains resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage until the end of its next turn. When an ally gains resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage from this discipline, you may choose to spend 1 ki point to instead grant them resistance to all damage except psychic damage until the end of its next turn.
Raging Whirlwind (11th Level Required). Air stance. While maintaining this stance, condensed bursts of air erupt from your fists and feet and encircle you at great speed. You can choose to hover up to 5ft off the ground and can move normally up to your speed. You can choose to have your unarmed strikes treated as 20 foot ranged attacks. If such an attack hits the target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or be pulled 10 feet towards you. On your turn when a creature is within 10 feet of your position you can spend 2 ki points as a bonus action and the creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, you hurl that creature 50ft into the air, plus an extra 10 feet higher for each additional ki point you spend. The creature then falls to the ground prone at the start of its next turn taking the appropriate falling damage. On a successful save, the creature is hurled only half the height and does not fall prone.
Relentless Flames (11th Level Required). Fire stance. While maintaining this stance fire burns in your eyes and flames enwreathe your body. You may you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage roll of any discipline or attack that causes fire damage. Whenever you deal fire damage you may spend 2 ki points to reroll a number of dice up to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). You must use the new rolls.
Red Dragon Claw (6th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast scorching ray.
Ride the Wind (11th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast fly, targeting yourself.
River of Hungry Flame (17th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 5 ki points to cast wall of fire.
Rush of the Gale Spirits. Air discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast gust of wind.
Shape the Flowing River. Water discipline. As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to choose an area of ice or water no larger than 30 feet on a side within 120 feet of you. You can change water to ice within the area and vice versa, and you can reshape ice in the area in any manner you choose. You can raise or lower the ice’s elevation, create or fill in a trench, erect or flatten a wall, or form a pillar. The extent of any such changes can’t exceed half the area’s largest dimension. For example, if you affect a 30-foot square, you can create a pillar up to 15 feet high, raise or lower the square’s elevation by up to 15 feet, dig a trench up to 15 feet deep, and so on. You can’t shape the ice to trap or injure a creature in the area.
Shape the Winding Path. Earth discipline. As an action, you can spend 1 ki point to choose an area of soil or mud no larger than 30 feet on a side within 120 feet of you. You can change soil to mud within the area and vice versa, and you can reshape soil in the area in any manner you choose. You can raise or lower the elevation, create or fill in a trench, erect or flatten a wall, or form a pillar. The extent of any such changes can’t exceed half the area’s largest dimension. For example, if you affect a 30-foot square, you can create a pillar up to 15 feet high, raise or lower the square’s elevation by up to 15 feet, dig a trench up to 15 feet deep, and so on. You can’t shape the dirt to trap or injure a creature in the area.
Speed of the Fire Storm (11th Level Required). Fire discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast haste, targeting yourself.
Stone Bones. Earth discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast false life.
Strength of the Stone Bull. Earth Stance. While maintaining this stance, you cause your skin to harden like stone, giving you great strength and resilience. You have advantage on Strength checks, Strength saving throws, and saving throws against being poisoned, paralyzed or stunned. When you hit with an attack you can spend 1 ki point and it deals an extra 1d10 points of damage.
Surge of Howling Wind (11th Level Required). Air discipline. You can spend 4ki points to cast wind wall.
Sweeping Cinder Strike. Fire discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast burning hands.
Tide of Swirling Sand (11th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast wall of sand.
Unending Breath (11th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 4 ki points to cast water breathing.
Water Whip. Water stance. While maintaining this stance you can use the Attack action to create a whip of water that shoves and pulls a creature to unbalance it. A creature that you can see that is within 30 feet of you must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, you can either knock it prone or pull it up to 25 feet closer to you. You can choose to spend 2 ki points when targeting the creature and it also takes 3d10 bludgeoning damage, plus an extra 1d10 bludgeoning damage for each additional ki point you spend. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage, and you don’t pull it or knock it prone.
Wave of Broken Earth. Earth discipline. You can spend 2 ki points to cast earth tremor.
Wave of Rolling Earth (17th Level Required). Earth discipline. You can spend 6 ki points to cast wall of stone.
Wings of the East Wind. Air stance. While maintaining this stance, gusts of wind flit about you, protecting you from harm and augmenting your physical abilities. If you are able to hear, you are aware of the location of any hidden or invisible creature within 20 feet of you. You have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) and Strength (Athletics) checks, and your jump height and distance are doubled (quadrupled with Step of the Wind). Whenever you hit a creature with an attack you can spend 1 ki point and deal an extra 1d6 points of damage and the creature has disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the end of your next turn.
Winters Bite (6th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 3 ki points to cast Snilloc's snowball swarm.
Wrath of the Frost Wyrm (17th Level Required). Water discipline. You can spend 5 ki points to cast ice storm.

[AmbientRaven]

Fantastic iteration of the Way of 4 Elements.
I am hoping to play test it soon.

Question, several abilities modify attack actions. Do these work together or only one at a time? I may have missed the explanaton somewhere

Thanks

[Sicarius Victis]

I'd just like to point out that all standard full casters get two 6th-level and two 7th-level spell slots, just to clarify.

[Dralnu]

Woo, late responses!

@GhostDragon I'm personally not a fan of those stances for two reasons:

1) It encourages narrow builds ("I should focus on fire disciplines") by punishing players who take different element disciplines (you're either losing bonus actions or spending extra ki).
2) This is probably the most complex subclass ever made. Stances aren't particularly complex but they add just another layer to it.

@AmbientRaven only one at a time. Each discipline states what type of action is required to initiate it.

@Sicarius Victis to clarify what?

[Sicarius Victis]

Sorry, it was in response to earlier comments saying that no casters got 6th-level or higher spells more than once per day.

[derezzed]

What do you guys think?

I really like this but my dm wants to make everything cost 1 more ki point than listed, do you think that still works or does it cripple the build?

[Ziegander]

Brilliant work, exceedingly professional and well-designed. Will show this to my monk fans.

EDIT: One slight "concern:" The tradition still "only" casts spells. By my reckoning it looks like you learn 8 spells (fewer than either Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster) and 4 cantrips (one more than EK or AT) over the course of your path, but never gain any additional class features. That said, you can cast them all based on a short rest resource rather than per long rest, which may be plenty to even things out.

EDIT PART DEUX: Also, did you mean for Rush of the Gale Spirits (3rd level discipline) to cost 2 ki even though all other 3rd level disciplines have a base cost of 1 ki?

[Steel Mirror]

Wow, this is really great! I know I'm commenting late so I'm not sure if the OP will see this, but props to you.
What do you guys think?

I really like this but my dm wants to make everything cost 1 more ki point than listed, do you think that still works or does it cripple the build?
I don't know about crippling it, but it will definitely be a big blow to the class and make it less fun to play. If you and your GM haven't read the bit at the end of the pdf where the author talks about his logic in making and balancing the class, I suggest you do so. It gives a better explanation than I could about costing the ki abilities, and it's a great discussion of the process behind class design in general.

[Dralnu]

What do you guys think?

I really like this but my dm wants to make everything cost 1 more ki point than listed, do you think that still works or does it cripple the build?

It's certainly weaker but still stronger than the original PHB subclass. You still get double the disciplines known and a bigger selection to choose from. Maybe try it at 1 more ki and see how it goes, then if you and the dm think it's too weak you can remove the extra kind cost.


Brilliant work, exceedingly professional and well-designed. Will show this to my monk fans.

EDIT: One slight "concern:" The tradition still "only" casts spells. By my reckoning it looks like you learn 8 spells (fewer than either Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster) and 4 cantrips (one more than EK or AT) over the course of your path, but never gain any additional class features. That said, you can cast them all based on a short rest resource rather than per long rest, which may be plenty to even things out.

EDIT PART DEUX: Also, did you mean for Rush of the Gale Spirits (3rd level discipline) to cost 2 ki even though all other 3rd level disciplines have a base cost of 1 ki?

There are disciplines that cost no ki and act as mini-class features -- approximately half a feature since you can pick up 2 disciplines per milestone. I can't check the pdf right now but iirc you could fill most, if not all disciplines known with them.

Rush of the Gale Spirits is intentionally 2 kind because the spell is level 2. It's offered at monk 3 because the original is too, but if that's weird I can move it to monk 6 with the rest.


Wow, this is really great! I know I'm commenting late so I'm not sure if the OP will see this, but props to you.

Thanks! This was certainly the most complex and debated brew I made. I'm happy with how it turned out.

[Nifft]

It's still got the problem that you can easily build a very nova-focused wanna-be Evoker (who can't ever compete with a real Evoker), but at least with your version there's the option to be a somewhat effective Element Bender.

You do have some stuff which augments the core Monk features. Good.

However, there's also stuff which isn't really Element-specific (i.e. "Unrelenting Flames") but just generic you-hit-better. That seems more like an Open Hand feature, since it's raw non-element-specific damage.

Overall, an improvement above the core 4EM, but I feel like there's still a lot of room to innovate & improve.

[Saiga]

I think the first version is really awesome and I hope I get to get a chance to play this - the four elements Monk was one I was really looking forward to but even as a fairly new player could tell the PHB version was underwhelming.

I do think that this doesn't really address the two main issues of the PHB version, though: too much ki spending and offering (next to) nothing outside of spell casting. The ribbons are nice, but I'd like to see some reliable options that don't use ki over the more situational ones present. I understand that the ki spending Disciplines should outclass "free" ones, but when you have a small amount of choices I feel like the free Discplines aren't able to do enough. Fist of Unbroken Air and Fangs of the Firesnake are good for being able to combine both.

Higher level Disciplines that don't use ki like Unrelenting Flames would possibly fix this, it's a shame there is only one level 11 Discipline like this and none at level 17.

Another option that might be cool is adding Cantrips to the Discipline options. The level 3 disciplines offer level 1 and 2 spells for 1-2 ki spent, a cantrip for no ki would be equivalent and add some variety. Firebolt may be too much ranged power for the Monk, but perhaps something like Shocking Grasp or Frostbite? I think those would add some nice variety to the build.

[Dralnu]

It's still got the problem that you can easily build a very nova-focused wanna-be Evoker (who can't ever compete with a real Evoker), but at least with your version there's the option to be a somewhat effective Element Bender.

You do have some stuff which augments the core Monk features. Good.

However, there's also stuff which isn't really Element-specific (i.e. "Unrelenting Flames") but just generic you-hit-better. That seems more like an Open Hand feature, since it's raw non-element-specific damage.

Overall, an improvement above the core 4EM, but I feel like there's still a lot of room to innovate & improve.

Unrelenting Flames should be the only one, no? Are there others?

It used to be "whenever you cast a spell, your next unarmed strike gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn. Whenever you make an unarmed strike, your next spell gains a +1 bonus to damage rolls and the spell DC until the end of your next turn." But people complained that it was overly complicated.


I think the first version is really awesome and I hope I get to get a chance to play this - the four elements Monk was one I was really looking forward to but even as a fairly new player could tell the PHB version was underwhelming.

I do think that this doesn't really address the two main issues of the PHB version, though: too much ki spending and offering (next to) nothing outside of spell casting. The ribbons are nice, but I'd like to see some reliable options that don't use ki over the more situational ones present. I understand that the ki spending Disciplines should outclass "free" ones, but when you have a small amount of choices I feel like the free Discplines aren't able to do enough. Fist of Unbroken Air and Fangs of the Firesnake are good for being able to combine both.

Higher level Disciplines that don't use ki like Unrelenting Flames would possibly fix this, it's a shame there is only one level 11 Discipline like this and none at level 17.

Another option that might be cool is adding Cantrips to the Discipline options. The level 3 disciplines offer level 1 and 2 spells for 1-2 ki spent, a cantrip for no ki would be equivalent and add some variety. Firebolt may be too much ranged power for the Monk, but perhaps something like Shocking Grasp or Frostbite? I think those would add some nice variety to the build.

I do like how Fist and Fangs both offer usage with no ki and some ki. It's harder when the discipline just casts a spell. I'm undecided whether it would be a good idea to tack on free cantrips. When people brought up cantrips earlier they were adamant that the 4E Monk shouldn't have damaging cantrips or it would step on too many toes. The ones they get for free right now are purely flavor. Also this 4E version already knows 1 more cantrip than the Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight, the loosest comparison to this subclass, so it would be weird if they could pick up +4 more or something for free.

I hear you guys that there should be more ki-less options. I'm open to suggestions on new ideas for that so let me know. For balance purposes, since this 4E learns two disciplines per milestone while most subclasses are given only 1 ability per milestone, each 4E discipline should be roughly half as powerful as an equivalent milestone for a different monk subclass.

[derezzed]

Wow, this is really great! I know I'm commenting late so I'm not sure if the OP will see this, but props to you.
I don't know about crippling it, but it will definitely be a big blow to the class and make it less fun to play. If you and your GM haven't read the bit at the end of the pdf where the author talks about his logic in making and balancing the class, I suggest you do so. It gives a better explanation than I could about costing the ki abilities, and it's a great discussion of the process behind class design in general.

Thats a good idea, thanks!
Im not quite sure he read that part. Didnt even think of that; i hope he will look into it cuz it already seems like its going to be weaker than my party memebers , but one or two sessions will have to prove so.

[Saiga]

Fair point about the number of Cantrips, but I think the four cantrips given are something that would never reasonably be taken together when given the choice, you'd be sacrificing too many other options to cover all four elements that way. So the actual utility isn't the same as 5+ cantrips.

And also it would be really really cool flavour to have things like Thunderclap on a Monk.

[ChaosRonin]

Sorry for the necro, but I was wondering if you ever considered adding some extra class features @ 3rd, 6th, 11th and 17th like the other traditions get. I ask this as both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster still get some nifty class features on top of the 13 spell-casting and I just found it odd that 4E didn't.

After a little brainstorming and using EK and AT as a guide I came up with this;

3rd- Ribbon ability? Maybe gain bonus proficiency in Nature/Arcana?
6th- Not sure here maybe give them a cold/fire/lightning version of Radiant Sun Bolt
11th- Elemental Strike - Whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra Martial Arts Die cold/fire/lightning damage. (basically Improved divine smite)
17th- Maybe the ability to cast one of the investiture spells once per long rest for free?

Just thought I would throw some ideas out! Really love your work!

Also I just saw the reddit thread for the reformatted remaster so I'll be following that as well.

Cheers

[Dralnu]

Comparing W4E to EK/AT is difficult because the spellcasting mechanic is very different. EK/AT get a brand new spellcasting resource, but rigid spell slots that recharge on a long rest. W4E casts spells with ki, which they already use on many baseline abilities, but it recharges on a short rest. W4E knows less spells, but they have complete flexibility on how to cast them -- you can spend all your ki casting Fireball -- while EK/AT doesn't have that. So it's hard to know which subclasses are the best in a vacuum.

More importantly, however, is how W4E stacks up against the other Monk subclasses. Right now I'd say this remaster is just as powerful as Shadow and Open Palm. Shadow and OP both have powerful class features, but the W4E gets two disciplines for each feature and it adds up to be about equal. I think adding more features on top of that would upset the balance.

I got some free time this weekend so I'll update with the reformatted version and all that.

[Lionheart2000]

testing my ability to post