Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature [Archive] - Page 3

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Xefas

2017-05-05, 02:14 AM

Help. I want them all.

The whole class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?524003-5e-Mythos-The-Adversary) went up earlier today, by the way (I get the impression that some people check this thread in preference to scanning through all the new board submissions, so in the future, I'll endeavor to announce these things a bit better).

A couple points: "the original host may be allowed a Charisma saving throw to resist the compulsion" might be a little more straightforward. I feel like Insidious Gossip Infection is very accurate and targeted. Fair enough. But wouldn't it be cool if it was a viral vector more than anything, with a vague predisposition to reach a certain ear? Not sure how that would work. It can pass between your Charisma modifier connections? Coal-boy to servant to butler to lord to noble to king?

Funny you should suggest that. The first version of that ability was called "Memetic Gossip Infection" and worked like an indiscriminate deception disease. But I felt it was a bit strong and also that a pinpoint strike more fit the Adversary's adversarial nature. I'm not against adding in a more viral ability at some point, though (theoretically, each class still has 10 more levels for me to play with).

Lanth Sor

2017-05-05, 09:09 AM

Has anyone thought of revisiting the Mythic Rogue archetype? From the compendium, the most complete and IMO best attempt was the Umbramendax (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369117-3-5-Mythos-%93Beware-lest-you-lose-the-substance-by-grasping-at-the-shadow-quot-PEACH), which just needed Exalted and a few more Legendary Mythos, and perhaps a few more excellencies. There was also an Ophidian mentioned in Xefas' upcoming gallery, but I can't quite tell if that's supposed to be the rogue or a shadowcaster (not that those are especially disparate ideas). Maybe if I end up getting enough ideas, I might try my own hand, but I'm not exactly seasoned.

I support this idea i really liked the place int was going with the class but he NINJA POOF BALLED, and Seasoning happens through doing.

dragonjek

2017-05-05, 10:56 AM

VoodooPaladin

2017-05-05, 02:57 PM

I've looked at the descriptions of the new Mythos classes, but they seem incredibly lacking.

Are you referring to the 5e ones, or the 3.5 non-Xefas ones?

Lanth Sor

2017-05-05, 03:25 PM

Will be updating Compendium for new 5E content tonight. Please link threads i miss here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517754-Mythos-Compendium-2-0)

Xefas

2017-05-05, 05:27 PM

I've looked at the descriptions of the new Mythos classes, but they seem incredibly lacking. The zest and rich history you class authors normally bring to Mythos classes isn't present. As it was, a DM could just say that something along the lines of "nope, no Titans or Lawbringers, these are basically just super-classes" if their campaign world didn't fit the history of the Mythos.

Your displeasure is noted. If you could give me an example of something a 3.5 class had that you particularly enjoyed that the 5e classes do not have an analogue to, perhaps I can find a way to include more such things in the future.

If it's just the stories of the Myths interacting with each other - perhaps I can make a central thread for that, as they're edition-neutral and not necessary to know to actually use the classes.

Also... what happened to the awesome character images you normally provide? Considering that at least Xefas has already made them over on his site, I don't see why they wouldn't be there.

I want to do something different with them for 5e. But I've got no image editing software anymore!

Hopefully that will also be something rectified soon.

Will be updating Compendium for new 5E content tonight. Please link threads i miss here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517754-Mythos-Compendium-2-0)

Thank you for maintaining this compendium, by the way. I think you've done a good job with it.

roko10

2017-05-07, 03:11 PM

Quick question, which ability score is more fitting for a writer; Intelligence or Wisdom?

This is totally just a random question and not foreshadowing for a new 5e/3.5e class at all. No, really. :smalltongue:

Tacitus

2017-05-07, 03:21 PM

I'd imagine it depends what you're writing. Technical manuals and history, fantasy and mystery, romance and propaganda. Where does your pen take you?

Gideon Falcon

2017-06-18, 09:07 PM

Is anyone still working on the 3.5 Mythos classes? I myself have had some ideas to flesh out the incomplete Umbramendax using, among other things, some materials from Xefas' Adversary.

PeacefulOak

2017-06-19, 10:38 AM

My Eoteras is still in progress, whenever I have time and inspiration.

Check the Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?517754-Mythos-Compendium-2-0), message the appropriate user to see if they're OK with you assisting/taking over, and go from there!

Gideon Falcon

2017-06-19, 05:24 PM

Yeah, I have, but the guy who made the Umbramendax hasn't responded. I don't know if he still frequents these forums. I was more asking because I don't know if I'm the only one still interested in 3.5.

khadgar567

2017-06-20, 06:33 AM

nikkoli

2017-06-20, 06:35 AM

Message lanth sir. We play with the 3.5 stuff on a regular basis add he's got like 2-3 unfinished ones floating around here.

DracoDei

2017-06-24, 05:20 AM

I'l be honest. Sad to see the jump to 5e. I don't care about 5e at all and I know this is going to mortally wound, or at the very least slow, the continued development of the 3.5 stuff. Call me selfish I guess.

Reminds me of Gramarie all over again. Old system was not done, it had it's flaws yes. But then everyone decided to jump ship to begin working on a new version that never panned out and now both are dead. Sad times.

Still, I really hope Xefas can get his info back. I enjoy 5e well enough, but I vastly prefer 3.5.

Well i am to intrested in 3.5 version

Message lanth sir. We play with the 3.5 stuff on a regular basis add he's got like 2-3 unfinished ones floating around here.

I still wish to post my Phileotheysia for 3.5 at some point...

Something that would help me do so would be if I could get a solemn oath VERY strong assurance that I will not be bugged about the titan-related stuff (I never took much of a shine to that oddly enough), nor about having merged "healing" onto "sacrifice" and ESPECIALLY that nobody will utter the word "simplify" in my thread without offering a rewritten version for my consideration. If I could write simpler without compromising my vision I already would have. Complexity of writing is a inherent problem of mine. OTOHs one of the previous thread titles for these general mythos discussion threads was "Where Simplicity Goes to Die" and Bdrone made it through the entire thing on GoogleDocs with only a few questions.

Note that I would be more than happy if someone (perhaps Lanth Sor) would work on the Titan part, I just don't want to be told I need to get such a thing created before people will consider my work.

On a side note that spoils a recent Blockbuster that has semi-recently made it onto DVD, plus a PonyFic and an Magical Girl Anime:
Movie!Doctor Strange now joins my list of really good examples of a Phileotheysia's mentality in action... which, with Nightmare Whisper and Madoka, brings the list to three... most of the other examples have this nasty problem of that their sacrifice has a end-point, rather than being indefinite or eternal. Of course, with the way the Phileotheysia mythos usually work it is more a matter of "repeated", rather than "continual". The Shintai is the partial exception (thank you Madoka for the inspiration!).

EDIT: I DO have some notes on the Titan, they just don't add up to a full story. I think I may make up for it with other flavorful bits such as a filk I wrote for the class, and a link to another filk that fits a different part of the class, but which wasn't written for it, and isn't by me.

Theseventh

2017-06-25, 11:44 PM

I still wish to post my Phileotheysia for 3.5 at some point...

Something that would help me do so would be if I could get a solemn oath VERY strong assurance that I will not be bugged about the titan-related stuff (I never took much of a shine to that oddly enough), nor about having merged "healing" onto "sacrifice" and ESPECIALLY that nobody will utter the word "simplify" in my thread without offering a rewritten version for my consideration. If I could write simpler without compromising my vision I already would have. Complexity of writing is a inherent problem of mine. OTOHs one of the previous thread titles for these general mythos discussion threads was "Where Simplicity Goes to Die" and Bdrone made it through the entire thing on GoogleDocs with only a few questions.

I am all for anything that kicks simplicity to the curb! Why do you think I still play 3.5? I really want to see this!

DracoDei

2017-06-26, 11:51 AM

I am all for anything that kicks simplicity to the curb! Why do you think I still play 3.5? I really want to see this!

Very well. I'll get it up when I have a chance. Gotta figure out how many posts I will need for this beast and such. Not to mention trying to leave out at least MOST of the editing notes and mechanically incomplete excellencies and mythoi.

Plus I'm still recovering from a nasty cold.

EDIT: I hope to post later tonight after the site traffic has died down. Intentionally leaving in about 10% of my editing notes so that readers may advise me on the uncertainties they mention.

DracoDei

2017-06-27, 12:58 AM

And here you all go!
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?528427-P-E-A-C-H-Phileotheysia-The-Mythic-Sacrifice-Bodyguard-Martyr-Mythos
(Prays for P.E.A.C.H.)

Tacitus

2017-07-02, 03:51 AM

Theseventh

2017-07-03, 01:26 AM

Just my 2cp, but I'm still interested in 3.5 mythos material, and tinker with my Occasus from time to time. Its a damn ****show though. Amusingly enough, also a healer concept, but it became bloated with concepts and should probably be more than one class. Got muddled with insanity, surgery, body horror, and armorsmithing. I've a google doc, but I'm not up to making it public as yet.

Oh come now, Draco released the raw beta version of his class in all it's unrefined glory. You should too!

On that note

Links in the index in the first post should be fixed, in case that was the reason I have so many views (not all of which are likely to be from me) and no responses.

I've looked at it. I will need to do some more looking and compile a list before I start PEACHing. Off the top of my head I know there is some formatting issues, and plenty of abilities could have their wording simplified or their mechanics clarified. Not to make this seem like a jab at you Draco but is english a second language for you? I see a couple of things in here that might speak to that being the case.

khadgar567

2017-07-03, 05:48 AM

well one more people to support 3.5 mythos continuation. I like to see it continue to

DracoDei

2017-07-03, 09:04 AM

I've looked at it. I will need to do some more looking and compile a list before I start PEACHing.

I look forward to it!

Off the top of my head I know there is some formatting issues, and plenty of abilities could have their wording simplified or their mechanics clarified.
I would welcome suggested rewrites. I will remind y'all, in case it is needed, that saying "simplify this part" will likely prove insufficient in the great majority of cases.

Not to make this seem like a jab at you Draco but is english a second language for you? I see a couple of things in here that might speak to that being the case.
Only metaphorically.

English is my first language, and the only ones I have any formal education in beyond that would be Latin, and the tinniest smidgen of Spanish.

On the other hand I do have what used to be known as Asperger's Syndrome, which is somewhat like being from another planet* socially, and this does influence the way I talk. I was once told I speak like a Shakespearean actor.
*'Population: 1', not 'Population: Everyone with high-functioning autism'.

ThreadNecro5

2017-07-05, 11:50 AM

I'm still around now and again, and have ideas for 3.5 material. However I am bogged down under material for my homebrew setting (races... so many races...) and whenever I try and do something Mythos related inspiration fails to strike.

Tacitus

2017-07-06, 01:58 AM

You got me. The tsunami of cajoling to present it has convinced me.

Seriously though, the Occasus (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1sPZw1RpmoKnrGws4tAtpd73gSsfVyFfXjqSoh0gSw IA), though I would prefer it not be added to a links repository at this time. At this stage I'm not looking at expanding material, but if anyone wants to offer thoughts on whether the Mania is too complicated and if the concept has expanded too far I would appreciate any feedback. I'd prefer PMs here on giants, but my understanding is the doc allows comments, I think? I don't googledoc often.

Gideon Falcon

2017-07-16, 04:22 PM

So, I had an idea for what could be either an Agios or an Anakitos Mythos- mainly, because there seem to be a lot more options in Mythos for evil and/or morally grey characters than for good ones- even the Anakitos seems more geared toward the 'Lawful Stick-in-the-Mud' version of Paladins than actually Good, and the Kreikiri, Dinyomi, Jagannatha, Taramach, Epifovian and the like all have abilities that either involve outright torture and murder or have massive amounts of collateral damage- the only Good-aligned abilities that come to mind are for the Agios, or the Dinyomi's "You can do horrible, horrible, evil things but still count as good because cynicism" Mythos. So, to inject some Idealism into the mix, I present:

Hypocrisy Revealing Light of Reckoning
Legendary
Prerequisites: Special, see text

It is well known among clerics, outsiders, and powerful individuals in general that Good and Evil are more than just a label. Mystical forces in and around the planes align themselves to morality and ethics just as people do. Angels and Devils have Good and Evil magic in their very essences, and many spells react to it so as to banish, repel, or control them.
You, however, have come to a deeper realization; these mystical forces are not what makes up morality either. Good and evil are not a set of opposed schools of magic, and certainly not a mortal construction, but a natural and inevitable, inescapable consequence of sapience that existed in and of itself the instant the Empyrian had another entity to speak to. Not even an Outer God can make it Right to murder the innocent, nor make it Wrong to give kindness and selflessness to those around you. Many wielders of tales and stories seem to disagree, but you can prove them wrong.

As a standard action, you can select a creature within 60 feet that is able to hold an alignment at odds with its actions in some way- inclucing a Mythic Planetouched that can count any action as a Good one, or a Mythic Adversary (Note; I can't remember the actual name, but someone made a 3.5 class by that nickname that could change its alignment at will) that had changed from its actual alignment, or even an Ozodrin whose alignment now reads Fzzz@r9ghak. That opponent must make a will save or have any and all such abilities suppressed for one minute (be it a feat, racial ability, class feature, or whatever else), its alignment changing to that which properly reflects its actions. This also suppresses abilities that allow them to 'cheat' on their codes of conduct in a similar way.
For example, a 'Lawful Good' Planetouched with a lavish estate who ritualistically tortures random captives to match his alignment before slaughtering them to fuel his Vow of Poverty would become Chaotic Evil, and possibly lose his Vow of Poverty if he had any of his riches on his person.

If an effect forcibly changed a creature's alignment without their consent, this ability gains the Harmless descriptor and instantly ends the effect.

You cannot gain this Mythos if you benefit from any such abilities yourself- this Mythos embodies integrity that such abilities bely.

Advanced Manifestations:
And I Shall Shout Thy Secret Deeds from the Housetops: At the end of this Mythos' duration, the target must make another will save at a +4 bonus. If they fail, they permanently loose the class feature, racial ability, Mythos, or whatever source granted the suppressed ability. Mythos or Excellencies must be reacquired through Mythos Points, items are broken, and other abilities require an Atonement spell with XP cost in order to regain.
Break Down the Whited Wall: For the duration of the Mythos, victims also gain vulnerability to alignment-based damage.

DracoDei

2017-07-30, 07:51 PM

So, I had an idea for what could be either an Agios or an Anakitos Mythos- mainly, because there seem to be a lot more options in Mythos for evil and/or morally grey characters than for good ones- even the Anakitos seems more geared toward the 'Lawful Stick-in-the-Mud' version of Paladins than actually Good, and the Kreikiri, Dinyomi, Jagannatha, Taramach, Epifovian and the like all have abilities that either involve outright torture and murder or have massive amounts of collateral damage- the only Good-aligned abilities that come to mind are for the Agios, or the Dinyomi's "You can do horrible, horrible, evil things but still count as good because cynicism" Mythos.

Well, the Phileotheysia is most easy to roleplay as a Good character, and at least one of mythoi has options that depend on your Good/Neutral/Evil alignment. Not to mention it does stuff with alignments, from adding typing to attacks (both its own and that of allies depending on the mythos in question) to detecting them.

None of which says it can't be played as a Lawful Evil character with some thought and Chaotic Evil merely requires that you desire Evil so much you are willing to take a supporting role if that is what advances it the most and have a few people whose Evil you admire enough to not betray them... at least as long as your respect for their Evil deeds remains. Of course, looking at your mythos, I don't think there is anything that makes it any better for a given alignment to use than any other in theory... in practice "Good mechanically, Evil by actions" might be more common than the reverse.

Don't know if what I said about the Phileotheysia is in the direction you were hoping to see more of?

So, to inject some Idealism into the mix, I present:

Hypocrisy Revealing Light of Reckoning
Legendary
Prerequisites: Special, see text

It is well known among clerics, outsiders, and powerful individuals in general that Good and Evil are more than just a label. Mystical forces in and around the planes align themselves to morality and ethics just as people do. Angels and Devils have Good and Evil magic in their very essences, and many spells react to it so as to banish, repel, or control them.
You, however, have come to a deeper realization; these mystical forces are not what makes up morality either. Good and evil are not a set of opposed schools of magic, and certainly not a mortal construction, but a natural and inevitable, inescapable consequence of sapience that existed in and of itself the instant the Empyrian had another entity to speak to. Not even an Outer God can make it Right to murder the innocent, nor make it Wrong to give kindness and selflessness to those around you. Many wielders of tales and stories seem to disagree, but you can prove them wrong.

<SNIP>
As a proponent of absolute morality, I heartily approve of this.

Gideon Falcon

2017-07-31, 12:56 PM

Yeah, the concept just really appealed to me- kinda like Dr Strange forcing Dormamu to undergo normal mortal time in order to defeat him, this lets you force Outer Gods, Eldritch Horrors, and the various Mythos-enabled morality cheaters to confront the true balance and weight of their actions.
Another idea I've got is a Taramach Mythos that lets you count actions against your alignment as attacks against you for things like Retribution Will Follow, and grants bonus alignment damage in a Rage- a manifestation could then allow you to be more merciful to enemies, with fluff about how your will is strong enough to temper the Monster to your own cause- becoming an embodiment of righteous fury and moral outrage rather than mere senseless destruction.

In other news, I do have a few ideas for Syntrofos Mythos, quite a few Umbramendax ones (including adaptations of the 5e Adversary), and a crap-ton of Magios ideas. Given the inactivity of their respective threads, I'll probably just have to post them here, if anywhere.

BTW, DracoDei, what were the rules of higher-level Mythos users swapping Mythos and excellency slots again? The ones you referenced in the hyper-epic campaign?

Lanth Sor

2017-08-01, 10:31 AM

Tacitus

2017-08-01, 03:22 PM

BTW, DracoDei, what were the rules of higher-level Mythos users swapping Mythos and excellency slots again? The ones you referenced in the hyper-epic campaign?

Was it this?
-1 Tier: One Mythos or 3 Manifestations or 1 Excellency
-2 Tiers: 2 Mythos or 5 Manifestations or 2 Excellencies
-3 Tiers: 3 Mythos or 7 Manifestations or 3 Excellencies
-4 Tiers: 4 Mythos or 9 Manifestations or 4 Excellencies

I've seen another that was 0/1/2/3, 1/3/5/7, 0/1/2/3 as well for a lower exchange rate.

DracoDei

2017-08-03, 10:24 PM

I assume the Teramach alignment thing would give all your damage that alignment, to help out with DR, among its other benefits?

Was it this?
-1 Tier: One Mythos or 3 Manifestations or 1 Excellency
-2 Tiers: 2 Mythos or 5 Manifestations or 2 Excellencies
-3 Tiers: 3 Mythos or 7 Manifestations or 3 Excellencies
-4 Tiers: 4 Mythos or 9 Manifestations or 4 Excellencies

I've seen another that was 0/1/2/3, 1/3/5/7, 0/1/2/3 as well for a lower exchange rate.

That looks right.

JennTora

2017-08-06, 08:26 PM

I'm still interested in seeing 3.5 mythos. Mainly because it can be more easily converted to pathfinder which is my main system, but still.

And I've had a couple of ideas lately for mythos classes. One would probably be called prodotis, and banner characters would be characters whose entire arc revolved around betrayal(so kreia(kotor 2), Zuko(avatar), sasuke uchiha maybe(Naruto). Class will be stealthy, probably more assassin than rogue and some of the mythos will do funny things to alignment. This is most of what I've decided on.

I'm seeing this one having a Bellator like origin, but being focused on internal and psychological conflict where the Bellator is based on external conflict.

Another one I'm thinking about would be a crazy genius item maker. I think there's one already but it felt more Tony stark, where this guy would be more, uh... willy Wonka I suppose. Not "I know all the things to make this," but "I'm so crazy, I don't know it's impossible to make this." And probably more art based than science based.

God_of_Awesome

2017-08-17, 08:12 PM

Is this dead? I'd be sad to see this dead. I only just registered just to post on here and talk about the campaign that I'm in where I convinced everyone to play a Mythos class.

Xefas

2017-08-17, 08:25 PM

Is this dead? I'd be sad to see this dead. I only just registered just to post on here and talk about the campaign that I'm in where I convinced everyone to play a Mythos class.

How's it going so far?

Gideon Falcon

2017-08-17, 09:43 PM

God_of_Awesome

2017-08-17, 10:48 PM

How's it going so far?

So far, we only had a character creation session. 3.5, we're all playing bastard sons of the king (except the Anakitos, he's a legitimate son) on a diplomatic envoy.

The DM is a friend of a friend, and I've talked with him before. He gave his okay for me to play a Teramach before hand and dropped hints at the table that an over powered class may prove necessary.

I've espoused this system to the others before, so our regular DM asks to see the Anakitos. Next thing you know, my friend is looking through the Umbramandax, another picked up the Bellator. I was considering going Bellator but decided we didn't need two.

We decided to go all melee, all the time, nothing too castery, like the Kathodos or Olethrofex. One guy was gonna pick the psyblade, but hearing everyone go on about how powerful these classes are convinced him to go Jaganatha.

I pointed out the Amalgamate feats as well. The Anakitos decided to "dip" Bellator with it and I decided to "dip" Jaganatha so I can "MAIM! KILL! BURN!"

Xefas

2017-08-18, 12:05 AM

By the way, Xefas, there's a couple references in the Olethrofex to Mythos that don't seem to be there, like something about becoming a mausoleum- do you remember any of those ideas? I know you won't have them written down, what with the whole lost info thing.

Actually, if everything goes according to plan, I should have my new computer up and running some time in the next few weeks. Once it's operational, I can plug in my old harddrives and see if there's any damage. Hopefully none.

IIRC, the Mythos you're referring to is Monolithic Necropolis Heart. It was meant to transform the character into an expression of the Abomination's true form, a graveyard-city populated by undead. It's permanent, of course, with the advantage of making you extra tough. It's hard to attack a city; especially one that's already dead. The locus of your necromantic energy, your Necropolis Heart, has to be found and slain in order to kill you (probably with some consecration magic thrown in). It would also let you generate and control massive groups of undead.

Downside? You're a collection of buildings. You need to control those undead in order to get stuff done. Or use your Reliquary (via Death-Mourning Phylactery Fission) to appoint a Lich King Vampire Queen Fat Zombie Seneschal mythical representative of some description, who could be mind broken, taken over, and granted your more body-requiring Mythos (so they don't go to waste).

I think I may have also wanted some sort of interaction with Shepherd-and-King Zion Construction to turn the character into their own Ravenloft or Innistrad or what-have-you. Without Monolithic Necropolis Heart, that Mythos was just about creating an afterlife-plane under your control.

on a diplomatic envoy

What could go wrong? =P

That sounds like a lot of fun. I'd love to hear how it goes.

God_of_Awesome

2017-08-18, 02:15 PM

What could go wrong? =P

That sounds like a lot of fun. I'd love to hear how it goes.

Mind you, only the Anakito and Umbremandex are meant to engage in diplomacy. The Jaganatha, the Bellator and myself, the Teramach, are meant to murder anything and everything that looks at them funny.

Sgt. Cookie

2017-08-18, 04:43 PM

http://i.imgur.com/pDJ872X.png

What could this be? Cross my palm with silver and you just might find out...

(And, before you ask, the class will do a little bit of the whole "chooser of the one" thing,hence the inclusion of The Outsider, but the class will focus more on the "look, but don't touch TOO much" side of things.)

Gideon Falcon

2017-08-18, 05:09 PM

That's great! We'll keep our fingers crossed, and look forward to seeing the lost archives.

A Mythic Seer could be quite interesting, too. Watching with interest.

God_of_Awesome

2017-08-26, 05:27 PM

Besides the game I managed to hijack into a Mythos game, the other thing I'd out myself for was something brought up earlier, crossposted from The Onyx Path after being crossposted from TVTropes, and that was The Narrative Titans (I apparently cannot post links yet because I signed-up to post here), a piece of lore I made for a shared setting superhero RP, even more inspired and taken from Xefas's Mythos than it was from Exalted, though I take it from that too.

The only new "twist" that stands out to me is that I made The Sun, here called The Light(/The Hero/The King), as a fellow Titan rather than a separate type of entity.

I also took the Jagganatha and made him into a superhero, the Anakitos into a supervillain, the Terramach into a brutal-vigilante-turned-Sealed-Evil-In-A-Can and the Bellator (wielding a Syntrofos) into an anti-villain fighting to retake her homeland.

Mechanix

2017-08-31, 12:13 PM

Hi there.

So, the Swordbearer class was brought to my attention today, and I had thoughts about it, which I was asked to put into a review. And so I did.

Prelude to explore my own biases and all: I hadn't played a 3.5 Mythos class, but I knew of them and had read them, and about them from enthusiastic players. I am an avid Exalted fan and appreciate the references in your work. I generally really like the idea of martial characters developing into mythical figures (a theme which features in some of my Barbarian homebrew). I'm also a Barbarian player in a West Marches-styled game, which has featured its fair share of pitched battles and dealing with kingdoms and armies.

I'm going to give you my opinion upfront so as to avoid weaseling: I do not think the Swordbearer works. It is a far cry from 3.5 Mythos classes and has a number of issues and problematic assumptions tied into its design.

Of course I see from a quick browsing of this thread that people have been playing it with some success, and I have not looked in depth at the other 5e Mythos classes, only the Swordbearer, which will be the scope of this post. So, maybe I'm wrong, etc.

Anyway.

1) Balance

Before I even got to the class itself, I was struck by your paragraph about level equivalents and which class to include in groups. I don't object by default to the idea of a 10-level class whose first level is equivalent to lv 11 of other class. However, it causes issues in that this class can only be played in games that start at lv 11 or above, which is extremely limiting of its ability to get actual play - you're not being kind to your fans, is what I'm saying. Of course, an alternative would be to play a Fighter up until mid-levels, and then turn your lv 11 Fighter into a lv 1 Swordbearer.

The problem, of course, is the downgrade in power you'll suffer doing so.

Bear with me here as I progress to my main point. A lv 1 Swordbearer is no match for a lv 11 Fighter or Barbarian (let alone Paladin) in single combat (I think I could take one with my lv 9 Barbarian), but that doesn't necessarily mean much.* Plenty of classes are terrible match-ups for one another; a Bard isn't supposed to win a stand-up fight against a Paladin. But it does make the emphasis on "don't play this in the same game as a Fighter" kind of odd.

*I’m fully willing to test this out and see if I’m wrong, I love white room combat.

Now, even as an inferior 1v1 combattant, the Swordbearer has plentiful utility in a typical adventure compared to other Warriors, because it is almost resources-free. It has almost no expendable resources aside from HP, so as long as the heals keep coming it can power through encounters without needing rests.

Which is its core problem.

The Swordbearer has no tactical choices. It has chargen variance - you pick from several abilities - and every time it hits someone it gets to pick from four rider effects. It has a ton of passive bonuses, and plenty of fun non-combat abilities. I like how it sizes up an opponent, affects large-scale battles and so on. But with the exception of its Ultimate Technique, at no point in an encounter does it ever have to ask itself: "Of the resources available to me, which is worth spending here and now to gain an advantage?" It is static all through the day. It attacks two times per turn, then three times, picks one of four effects on every hit,* and when encountering one specific ranged threat automatically uses its answer. While everyone expends their resources, he just keeps on trucking.

*against any enemy whom you expect to survive this round, such as mid-bosses and bosses, these options aren't so much choices as they are "hit the ridiculously powerful Disadvantage effect until they fail their save, then add damage or accuracy depending whether they're high-AC or high-HP."

Wait, that sounds familiar...

Oh. It's the 3.5 Fighter. A much more powerful version thereof, certainly, but the core design is the same. You have loads of passive bonuses and do the same thing all the time in combat. You have no tactics. You make no meaningful choices. You do not burn or sacrifice assets. You're just a static beatstick.

You are, amazingly enough, more boring than a Champion. The Champion at least gets to choose when to use Action Surge, Indomitable and Second Wind. You outpace the Champion's tactical depth at lv 8, which is level 18 for a normal adventuring group, and meanwhile the Battle Master is over there cackling as he adapts his fighting style to whatever opponent he faces by dipping into his bag of Superiority Dice and choosing which maneuver he wants to apply this time. The Paladin is faaaar over there crossing the horizon, you already can't see her anymore.

I am going to go one step further. This class is designed to negate choices. You don't have good Dexterity? It's fine, you still have good Initiative. You are a Dexterity-based character? It's fine, you can still use a greataxe. You don't have the Strength to use the heaviest armor? It's fine, just wear nothing, you still have excellent AC. Oh, and your starting start spread lets you rock at all the skills that matter to you.

You don't make hard choices. You don't sacrifice effectiveness somewhere to be good somewhere else. You are good at everything, whatever you do; and so, you are bland.

You are an old-school Fighter.

So. This is not good.

2) Reality Warping

By now you're probably thinking that I am unfair because the Swordbearer actually has a lot of ability to make choices and warp the narrative through a set of Inspiration-based abilities that let them make narrative authorial statements. And this is true. It doesn't apply in combat, so it doesn't affect point 1), but it is true nonetheless.

My issue is that this is a mechanic only the Mythos class has, when it sounds like a game assumption. It's something either no one should have, or everyone. As it stands, if your Swordbearer is palling around with a Wizard and a Druid, the two casters have actual magic to perform various utility effects outside combat, and the Swordbearer... Conjures things by happenstance. He sounds like a reality warper rather than a mythic hero, because it's an exclusive mechanic in mixed groups. In a Mythos-only group, I'm sure it works fine. But even in the suggested "Mythos and Casters" mixed group it just feels off.

The scope of your reality warping is also unclear. It can conjure a shiv inside a prison, but not a greatsword. It can conjure a fencing school to shelter you for the night. Can it conjure an army? Can it conjure a fencing school that you then turn into an army? Can you remotely negate encounters without fighting them by cleverly leveraging your declarations?

Anyway, I don't want to come down too hard on this ability. It's actually pretty cool. Its core issue is that it's entirely dependant on DM arbitration of Inspiration. I played D&D for an entire year and got Inspiration literally once. If the DM gives you tons of Inspiration, you're rewriting the setting like some mad psychic mutant, if he doesn't you do it once a day through Iron Resonance, which is actually probably more sensible for everyone's sanity.

3) But I Can Kill An Army

Indeed, the Swordbearer has an incredible edge over any core martial class: its ability to deal with mooks, even armies of them, like they are nothing to him.

There are a few problems with this.

The first problem is that you are treating a core feature of 5e's design as an annoying obstacle to be overcome. The point of 5e encounter design is that goblins can be a threat to high-level players by using numbers and tactics. This is convenient because it allows a GM to maintain a more coherent setting instead of having enemies eventually become irrelevant and needing to be replaced by a new class of creature - if your campaign is about a goblinoid army invading the land, you can be fighting goblins at lv 1, and you can progress through goblins, bugbears, hobgoblins, their elites and their pet monsters and their allies, while there still being goblinoid mooks who can threaten you through attrition - instead of the DM having to go "well, you're all too high-level now, so the goblins just sort of disappear and we're moving to fight Yuan-Ti since they have a higher Challenge baseline."

You're reintroducing this into the game, which is not great. It's essentially backdooring solved 3.5 issues into the game. With a Mythos class in the mix, lower-level opponents exist now only as a feel-good system for showing what a badass you are, which clearly has its place, but...

Okay, here's the thing. This is D&D. You don't fight armies. Even if you think you do, you don't.

I am not going to presume as to how everyone runs their game - maybe some people actually do model five hundred CR 1/4 soldiers separately, rolling their actions in turn. These people are madmen. The core of the game is designed to model small unit tactics combat, and you're taking a wrench to it to try and make it Sauron fighting off an army in the LotR intro.

Here's how I've seen adventurers act in army-scale battle in D&D games:
1) The adventurers are fighting standard-sized groups of opponent. The battle around them is modelled as shifting environmental conditions, affected by the adventurer's success in killing the Elite Bugbear Guard or finding and dispatching the Wizard Strategist.
2) The adventurers are actually taking on 500 soldiers, and these soldiers are modelled as a single opponent with a high Challenge rating.

None of these situations are helped in any way by mook-clearing tactics. The first because you never actually encounter hundreds of low-CR opponents in the field, the second because the army is actually modeled as a high-CR opponent.

You're fixing a problem that doesn't exist, except for a special class of DMs who apparently don't see modeling hundreds of separate opponents as a logistical nightmare that will eat their souls.

4) Core Design

This is the part where I'm kind of a jerk because I have to rapid-fire on several issues. Sorry.

Let's go from the top down.

Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, IntelligenceNo. I don't care that your class is a mythical combattant. The lv 20 Wizard right over there summoning demons from the netherworld and making them cry uncle has the same saves as everyone else - one strong, one weak, plus one if he took Resilient (Ability). This isn't a matter of balance or being powerful and mythical, it's core design to the game. You get a strong save, and a weak save, and sometimes you have a miraculous high-end feature giving you more, like the Rogue or the Monk.

If the attack is successful, the target must make a (Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution; your choice) saving throw or take Disadvantage on all attack rolls against you until the beginning of your next turn. During this time, you also have Advantage on saving throws that the target's abilities require you to roll.This is absurdly powerful in the worst of ways. The "pick the save" part is just... Bad. And the power is both completely overwhelming, and completely generic. It is The Best Debuff and that's it. You will want to use this on every turn on every significant opponent, and so now all encounters read "this character has disadvantage on all attacks" and it's just... No.

Wing-Clipping Shot
This part interests me because it's not a bad ability per se, it just reflects an overall design issue. Flying enemies are annoying, every melee fighter knows that. Adventurers go through many means to deal with flying enemies; they use ranged attacks, they try to restrict the fight to a limited location, they endow themselves with the power of flight to pursue them. They resort to tactics.

The Swordbearer says, "you're not flying anymore."

It'd be fine if the effect was restricted in duration, because then the proned dragon has to make the choice of staying on the ground whacking everyone with tail and claw, or flying again to escape melee but suffering AoOs in the process.

But as it is, the Swordbearer actively makes combat more boring.

When a creature begins casting a spell within Normal Range (as in, not Long Range) of the weapon you wish to use, you may spend your Reaction to make a ranged attack against them. If the attack hits, the target must make a Constitution saving throw (DC = 1/2 damage taken, or 10; whichever is higher) or lose the spell."Lose the spell" is not a system term. You need to be explicit as to how exactly this works, most notably telling us if the spell slot that would have been used to cast it is also lost.

And again, we're back to making the game more bland, because now enemy casters don't get to cast. That'll show that evil wizard.

Ultimate TechniqueI really like the concept of "ultimate techniques," and have tried designing them for subclasses before.

But here your choices include a weaker action surge, another weaker action surge, a weaker lightning bolt, and the Good One. It's not great.

5) The Tone

This is probably your biggest problem.

Of the people whom I have shown this homebrew before working on this review, most of them were already having misgivings about the class before ever getting to its mechanics. The tone is, quite honestly, insufferable: it mocks low-level adventures, it disparages martial classes while saying "casters are fine," and it begs for a fundamentally narrative mechanic supposed to occasionally reward good roleplay because it needs it to power its class features. In fluff and description, it generally tries too hard.

Like, seriously...

Based on my homebrew 3.5e work of the same name, 5e Mythos is intended to add a selection of classes to the game that allow players to begin their story at a relatively high level of power, and grow into capabilities that allow them to alter the course of the world without using standard D&D magic and spells. They are not meant to be the errand-folk of wizards and kings, cleaning the rats from cellars and the dire rats from tombs in exchange for a pouch of coins, a healing potion, and pat on the head. They should make goals for themselves, crush their opposition, and deal with the consequences of power.
Here are a couple things that happened in my current D&D game. At lv 3-4, before I got my first Extra Attack, I was helping depose a Queen and reinstating the rightful Prince on his throne. At lv 6, I duelled a devil, killed a noble demon, and our Paladins won the favor of the Angel of Wrath. With all but one character below lv 10, we're currently among the linchpins of a siege involving two armies of 5,000 soldiers each. I'm not taking part in it because my lv 9 character died duelling the commander in chief of the entire army, who has something like 200+ hp, regeneration 10 hp/turn and can cast Destructive Wave, and I lasted ten rounds and brought him down to bloodied.

Meanwhile, the Swordbearer is supposedly sitting in the sideline, waiting for the group to get two more levels so he can come in and things can be "fair."

My experience of 5e D&D is that we have to struggle to get casters into the group because everyone loves Battle Masters and Paladins. Out of a 20-person pool we use to form 5-men parties, people are fighting over our single underleveled wizard and our two clerics because this is Fifth Edition now, and Martials Are Cool.

This makes the tone of the Swordbearer's post incredibly frustrating to read. I gave it to people who hadn't followed the 3.5 Mythos, and they were already ready to dismiss the entire class on its introduction alone.

It doesn't have to be this way. I love Exalted, and I love mythical fighters.

It's just that in 5e, a mythical fighter who can shape the world with its grandiose deeds is called... A high-level Fighter. Straight from the core.

And, like, one petty addition. "Myth" and "Mythos" I can get behind. But "Anthol"? I don't know where that's from. A friend dug around to find out and the only thing they found was an abreviation for "anthology," which comes from a French word for "collection of flowers." Where did you dig that up?

6) Conclusion

The Swordbearer's ability to shape the narrative of play by introducing facts is its greatest, and coolest feature. The class is also entirely reliant on this ability to actually feel fun and affect play, because in combat it's kind of dull.

And that's the problem, really. It tries too hard. Normal groups can use skills, spells, roleplays, and the calculated application of overwhelming violence to bring down kingdoms, build new ones, shape the land, and raise armies. The Swordbearer is written like it is afraid it can't do that with its actual abilities, so it gets to fiat these things into existence. It skips the middle-man because then there could be failure.

And so, paradoxically, it feels underwhelming.

That's my review, and thanks for reading so far. I'm sorry I couldn't be more enthusiastic about this class.

Imrix.

2017-08-31, 12:23 PM

My experience of 5e D&D is that we have to struggle to get casters into the group because everyone loves Battle Masters and Paladins. Out of a 20-person pool we use to form 5-men parties, people are fighting over our single underleveled wizard and our two clerics because this is Fifth Edition now, and Martials Are Cool.This deserves emphasis, I'm afraid. Comments like "... a Fighter's greatest achievement of learning to hit a bugbear slightly harder." give me the impression Xefas is still working off of a distinctly 3.5 esque mindset where caster supremacy is undeniable and pure martial classes are both underpowered and dull as dishwater. But that's not the case in 5e. Martial classes are powerful and versatile now. They can Do Things. And a Swordbearer... kind of can't, sadly.

Xefas

2017-08-31, 09:02 PM

Alright, so, Mechanix, I did read your whole post. I'm not going to respond to the whole thing, point by point, or anything, not because I don't want to, but just because I quite literally don't have the time to get everything done that I want to get done in the day. I feel bad about that, because you clearly put a lot of time into writing it. But I did read it.

I will say this, and hopefully it will suffice for now. Since finishing the Adversary, I've had a '2.0' revision of the 5e Mythos stuff in mind, and partially in writing, that I just haven't had time to get done. If it ever comes to fruition, I think it will address some of your concerns. Others, it may not, not because I think you're incorrect about anything, but because I think I have a different framing in mind for the kind of game I'd put these classes to use in.

Of additional note:

*I’m fully willing to test this out and see if I’m wrong, I love white room combat.

This may actually be helpful to me in the making of the next revision, if you'd like to do that.

edit:

And, like, one petty addition. "Myth" and "Mythos" I can get behind. But "Anthol"? I don't know where that's from. A friend dug around to find out and the only thing they found was an abreviation for "anthology," which comes from a French word for "collection of flowers." Where did you dig that up?

It's meant as an abbreviated form of Anthology, which is a collection of stories (or poems, songs, etc).

Crumplepunch

2017-09-01, 02:09 AM

It's meant as an abbreviated form of Anthology, which is a collection of stories (or poems, songs, etc).

As the friend in question who did the looking up, I should clarify. I assumed you meant anthol as an abbreviation of anthology, I was just sharing the etymology of the Greek anthologia, meaning a flower collection, from anthos (flower) and legein (to gather). This was transmitted through medieval French and eventually made its way to its modern English definition after a transitional period of meaning a collection of flower pressings.

I know this is a popular long time homebrew and I don't want to suggest messing too heavily with a successful formula, but if you are by any chance in the market for a replacement word I suggest "agonist". The modern word refers to one who engages in a struggle, the Greek root refers more directly to an athlete or champion, and it is also the root word of many derived terms for characters who hold narrative focus (protagonist, deuteragonist, antagonist, etc).

Mechanix

2017-09-01, 01:18 PM

Alright, so, Mechanix, I did read your whole post. I'm not going to respond to the whole thing, point by point, or anything, not because I don't want to, but just because I quite literally don't have the time to get everything done that I want to get done in the day. I feel bad about that, because you clearly put a lot of time into writing it. But I did read it.

I will say this, and hopefully it will suffice for now. Since finishing the Adversary, I've had a '2.0' revision of the 5e Mythos stuff in mind, and partially in writing, that I just haven't had time to get done. If it ever comes to fruition, I think it will address some of your concerns. Others, it may not, not because I think you're incorrect about anything, but because I think I have a different framing in mind for the kind of game I'd put these classes to use in.
Well, thanks for reading, anyway. Happy to hear about your 2.0 and I hope my comments can be at least a little bit helpful there.

Of additional note:

This may actually be helpful to me in the making of the next revision, if you'd like to do that.Sure thing.

It's meant as an abbreviated form of Anthology, which is a collection of stories (or poems, songs, etc).I'm aware, it's just a weird choice of term for a person, which doesn't really pan out etymologically.

PeacefulOak

2017-09-02, 12:00 AM

I think part of what is being missed/lost here is one of the core concepts of the Mythos system and mythology. The Titans, from whom the mythos classes are derived, are narrative concepts. The Monster - a concept of pure violence. The Sun - a concept of conquest and pride. And so on and so forth. Mortals who access some part of a Titan's power, whether by practice (class) or by bloodline (race feats), become a part of that narrative, contributing to the nature and power of the Titan.

Personally, I feel that the term Anthol has a good relation to the overall concept of the Mythos setting.

Inevitability

2017-09-02, 03:58 AM

Still considering making that mentor-like class (think Gandalf, Donnie Darko's Frank, or Merlin), but somewhat at a loss for what kind of features to give it.

Wisdom-based features are pretty obviously a must, maybe with some secondary intelligence and charisma, but I'm having trouble differentiating it from the various commander Mythos classes already out there. I want this class to guide, not lead, if that makes sense.

Primal Fury

2017-09-04, 12:04 AM

Inevitability

2017-09-04, 12:40 AM

What system were you planning on using? I had some ideas concerning a Mythic Mentor a while ago, but that was for 3.t and Pathfinder.

3.5, most likely. The 5e design is pretty neat, but I want it to work with the majority of the material that's already out here.

Primal Fury

2017-09-04, 07:05 AM

Alright then, this might work. One of the core abilities was the use of Teamwork Feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/teamwork-feats/). Usually, these types of feats require those who wish to use them to take them together; the Daskalos waived this requirement, allowing him/her to grant their allies the use of any teamwork feat they had without needing to have it themselves.

They also granted a scaling bonus to Aid Other actions. I think it was... Hey, I found it. Have a look.

Guiding Light: The Lodestar had no interest in achieving primacy over the other gods. His only concern was helping his brethren improve their mastery over their respective purviews; in truth, he was already far too old to be bothered with anything else. This propensity for assisting others manifests as a change in how your Aid Other actions work. Rather than simply adding +2 to an allies attack roll or skill check, you make the same roll using your own bonuses and/or penalties. If your roll would have succeeded, you add +1d4 bonus to all to your ally's attack or skill check for each tier of the Lodestar's Mythos that you have access to (+1d4 for Exceptional, +2d4 for Fantastic, etc); if your roll would have failed, then you simply add the normal +2. When improving an allies AC, add the normal +2, plus an additional +2 for each tier of the Lodestar's Mythos you have access to. Additionally, for every age category you are beyond your ally, you grant them an additional +1 bonus with Aid Other actions. It must be noted that this is consistent across all races. A young elf will benefit from an elderly human's wisdom; the real-world experience of the latter trumps the likely limited experience of the former, despite the fifty year difference between the two. This ability only uses age modifiers that would actually cause you to take penalties, such as those listed in the Player's Handbook, not other age modifiers entirely dependent upon the creature's race, such as draconic age categories.

Additionally, any Teamwork Feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/teamwork-feats/) you possess no longer require an ally to have them in order to reap their benefits. For example, if you possess the Back to Back feat, you and an adjacent ally benefit from the +2 bonus to AC against flanking opponents without your ally needing to possess the feat as well.

Inevitability

2017-09-04, 12:26 PM

Ooooo, nice! You mind if I use these abilities, perhaps with some slight tweaking?

Primal Fury

2017-09-04, 12:46 PM

It's all yours.

Xefas

2017-09-30, 11:14 PM

I dunno how many of you guys live in Texas, but I'm going to be at GaMExpo (http://www.thegamexpo.com/) in San Antonio during November 4th and 5th.

I don't know much about the convention itself, other than that (1) it's roleplaying and board game focused, (2) it's within reasonable driving distance, (3) I can get off work that weekend. But that's enough for me. I assume there's a chance it will totally blow, but I'm willing to take that chance.

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-05, 12:33 AM

Wait a minute... Am I crazy, or did you change the style of the table in the Bellator post?

Xefas

2017-10-07, 04:30 PM

Wait a minute... Am I crazy, or did you change the style of the table in the Bellator post?

Oh? Huh. You're right! I forgot about that.

I guess that was around the time of the table code changes on the forum. I started experimenting with class-customized table graphics ((1) (https://i.imgur.com/ZJXWkUm.png) (2) (https://i.imgur.com/UIWHWZb.png) (3) (https://i.imgur.com/WOkrxSv.png)) with a background picture of a "ninth" character inspiration, shopped with a class-related color scheme.

Unfortunately, they turned out to be quite a chore to read. I was messing around with doing more generic ones with maybe a flair here or there, and I suppose I left a generic one up after shelving the idea. I think if I had more experience with photoshop, I might be able to make the idea workable. But I've no real understanding of the program. I just got an old version for cheap back when I was in school.

TraceChaos

2017-10-09, 12:32 AM

Hey, Xefas, any word on recovering stuff off your old harddrive? There are several classes I still hope to see you post or finish, since I'm a huge fan of your work.

Xefas

2017-10-10, 11:27 AM

Hey, Xefas, any word on recovering stuff off your old harddrive? There are several classes I still hope to see you post or finish, since I'm a huge fan of your work.

Here's some Epistemian.

Exceptional

Arbitrary Matter Reclamation
Prerequisite: -

Mortal creatures are simple combinations of matter and energy. Positive energy in the soul, elemental fire in its heat and blood, elemental air in its mind and lungs, and so on, woven together by the systems of the Great Wheel to create life. But these systems are themselves constructs of titanic narrative, arbitrary strands of story-stuff repurposed by ambitious gods and immortals, themselves only creatures born of chance from motes of chaos and order.

Complex on the surface, all physical things are just inanimate building blocks, clinging to each other by pure coincidence, fooling themselves into believing they are some greater, independent self. With a glance and an effort of focused will, you allow a creature or object within [(1/2 class level + intelligence modifier) x 10ft] to ignore the lies of its defined shape and realize its true oneness with the empty, aimless ebb and flow of the universe. It must make a Fortitude save. On a failed save, it takes (1d4 per class level) damage, as random chunks of its form are suddenly missing. (Creatures and objects usually die or cease being functional long before their entire form is disintegrated, though this ability may continue to be used on the resulting corpse or broken pieces in order to disintegrate it completely.)

Even though this assault has no obvious visual indicators originating from you, because your own raw will must touch them, creatures are aware of where the aggression came from, though they do not necessarily understand its nature.

(Note that this ability deals damage, so is reduced by Hardness, but is not a weapon or attack, so is not reduced by Damage Reduction.)

Arcanospectrum Optical Enhancement
Prerequisite: 1 rank in the Spot skill

All things of the Great Wheel were created from primal chaos and repurposed, mutilated titanic narrative, from stones and leaves to light and fire to magic and morality. Some things were made more subtle and esoteric than others, but all are, in the end, the same particles given different configurations. An eye that can see can see all. It is only a matter of reduced ignorance.

As a swift action, you can focus your eyes to a higher plane of sight, or unfocus them back to normal viewing.

While using this heightened vision, you see magical auras burning around functioning spell workings and magic items similar to the ones visualized by a fully focused Detect Magic spell, as well as the lingering auras of bygone spells and broken items. You need not spend time studying these auras or utilizing Spellcraft checks to determine their nature; they are as plain to you as any physical feature of the world. For example, while others may glance over a Broom of Flying in a casual search, seeing only a broom, the moment you lay eyes on such an item, the Moderate Aura of Transmutation that it carries is as obvious as the wood it's made of. To others, a powerful adventurer may simply appear to be a surly homeless person wandering down the street with an uncouth number of deadly weapons jammed into their backpack, but their ungodly horde of magic items crammed into a single person-sized space would shine like a brilliant wintermas tree to your eyes.

One notable caveat: while magical invisibility is rendered largely useless against you, as you are able to see the creature (or object) shaped aura of magical (usually Illusion) energy cloaking the hidden being (or thing), mundane forms of stealth can still be effective. A clever enough rogue could, potentially, keep their +1 Leather Armor's faint abjuration aura out of sight as they skulk around you. However, you gain a +5 circumstance bonus on Spot checks to notice things wreathed in a magical aura, or a +5 circumstance bonus on Search checks for a concerted effort to find something (like quickly digging through a clerk's desk for the one document with an Arcane Mark on it).

In addition to its magic-detecting properties, your heightened sight is also capable of seeing the lingering motes of moral and ethical energy that cling to beings touched by the Outer Planes. Unlike magic purpose-built to read a creature's ethos, you cannot see what alignment truly lurks in a creature's essence, only the taint of aligned energy on them. This functions similarly to a Detect Good/Evil/Law/Chaos spell, save that you need not concentrate for multiple rounds to visualize alignment auras, you cannot be stunned by particularly power auras, and you are only able to detect suitable Outsiders, alignment-skewed magic items, the auras of Clerics, and similar beings with powerful aligned auras (such as Incarnates). At your groups discretion, you might be able to detect an aligned planar aura on other creatures that heavily traffick their souls with Outer Planar entities, such as a Warlock that derives their power from a Demon Lord. In all cases, you are non-magically detecting planar energy, not the subject's true morality. So, for example, a Chaotic Good Warlock that has been saddled with the power of Orcus would detect as Chaotic Evil, because it is the taint of the Demon Lord that is being detected, not the Warlock's real character. A Warlock with a Fey patron likely wouldn't ping at all, as the Fey courts largely dwell on the Prime Material Plane.

On the upside, spells such as Undetectable Alignment do nothing to obscure the planar detritus you are detecting, and are thus largely inconsequential to you.

Future-Strand Decryption Sight
Prerequisite: -

When the brief flashes of insight and odd feelings of improbable success begin within an Epistemian, they often assume that they are simply very lucky individuals, benefactors of the random whims of forces or powers beyond their knowing. Or, some others believe that they have become oracles, able to see the paths of their own fate stretched out before them, manuevering themselves through the current of time.

In reality, they are seeing past the context of the physical world, very briefly, to the true underlying patterns of particles and energy and matter that underpin the universe that they see and experience. In truth, there are no unique actions. Everything that is happening has happened before and will happen again, and by using the knowledge of events that have come before, one may make predictions about that which will be.

In an instant, a prediction is made. A potentially perfect prediction, for this is but one dynamic moment pitted against a billion billion such moments and more. The only limiting factor is the imperfect brain that does the calculating.

You gain a pool of Prediction Points, with a maximum capacity equal to your Intelligence modifier. Resting for 8 hours refills the pool to its maximum. You may spend one Prediction Point to reroll any one of your Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, or Ability Checks, or to force an Attack Roll aimed at you to be rerolled. The new result must be kept, even if it is worse. Only one Prediction Point may be spent per roll.

You must use a Prediction Point after the roll is made, but before you know the results of the roll.

Advanced
Brain-Strain Reduction: Your Prediction Pool's capacity increases by 1. At 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level, it increases by 1 again.

Synaptic Clarity Increase: When you roll a new die with a Prediction Point, also roll 1d4 and add the result to the rerolled die. At 6th level, roll 2d4 instead. At 12th level, roll 3d4, and at 18th level, roll 4d4.

(name): You may use as many Prediction Points per roll as you wish, continuing to reroll undesirable results. In addition, when you reroll dice with Prediction Points, you are not forced to take the newest result; you may choose among the original result or any of the rerolled results, at your whim.

(name): Every hour, you regain one point of your Prediction Pool, up to its normal maximum.

Perfected Neo-Martial Combat Katas
Prerequisites: -

To memorize every possibility in a conflict scenario and insert a counter-stratagem for each one of them into one's muscle memory is possible, but strenuous for a limited mind, and ultimately unnecessary. First, two broad categories may be removed. To begin, one does not need to know how to defeat maneuvers or enemies so inherently ineffective as to not prove a credible threat in the first place. Secondly, one need not waste time and effort attempting to defeat an opposition so threatening that its ultimate defeat is beyond one's physical limitations.

In the middle, there is a zone of combat involving threats that can be defeated, and require defeating. If there is a solution, a sufficiently intelligent mind can discern it. And once the solution is known, it need only be recalled and implemented.

Through rigorous practice and repetition, you drill into your body a series of painstakingly designed martial forms and movements, associating each one with particular stimuli. At the end of your training, your body is nearly autonomous in combat, subconsciously responding to each state of the battlefield with the, ostensibly perfect, countermeasure.

Merely being in combat is no longer considered "being threatened or distracted" for you, for the purposes of whether or not you can Take 10 on a skill check, though other sources of stress may still apply.

You gain the Uncanny Dodge special quality.

When you make an attack roll with a simple weapon, you roll twice and take the best result.

Advanced
Baleful Crossbow Practice: You incorporate special extensions into your katas for use with crossbows. After making an attack with a crossbow, you may instantly reload it, provided you have the ammunition on your person or within your reach, without an action. You may do this even if you do not have a free hand. You may add your Dexterity modifier as a bonus on damage rolls with a crossbow.

Instantaneous Violence Methodology: You gain Quick Draw and Improved Initiative as bonus feats.

Athletic Kata Expansion: You gain Leap of the Heavens as a bonus feat (PHBII). You may add your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier for the purposes of your ability bonus on Climb, Jump, and Swim checks. In addition, when you Take 10 on a Balance, Climb, Jump, or Swim check, you may add your Intelligence modifier to the roll in addition to other bonuses.

Maximized Body Utilization: You gain Two-Weapong Fighting as a bonus feat. While you are wielding only simple weapons, ignore two points of the penalty imposed on attacks rolls by fighting with two weapons.

Personality Core Deactivation Mantra
Prerequisite: -

Just as all thoughts, emotions are merely inanimate particles built into waves of energy and chemical signals that mortals mistake for something grand and significant. Just as thoughts can be pushed from one's mind, and memories locked away, emotions are subject to an individual's discipline, and your discipline is greater than most.

As a full-round action, you recite a mantra in your mind, and form the words into a metaphorical prison that encases one of the six fundamental emotions that manipulate your brain. The effects for each imprisoned emotion are listed below. You may only have one emotion imprisoned at a time, but you may release an imprisoned emotion as a swift action, ending the effects of its imprisonment (though requiring a new full-round action to imprison a new emotion).

Joy. While your Joy is imprisoned, the signals that tell your brain that life is worth living cease to function, and you find no happiness or enjoyment in anything whatsoever. You do not receive morale bonuses (though you may still take morale penalties), and you are immune to any effect that relies on pleasure or elation to function, such as a Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter spell. Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion tends to lead to a surplus of its opposing emotion, Sadness, causing severe depression.

Trust. While your Trust is imprisoned, you lose the ability to have respect for others, or feel confident in their abilities. You cannot feel camaraderie, and no where feels wholly safe when other people are around. No one may be considered your 'Ally' (or 'friend' or similar verbage) for the purposes of effects you generate that effect allies. Effects that rely on your ability to accept someone as an ally or feel trust and friendship have no effect on you, such as a Charm Person spell. However, you never take a penalty on Sense Motive checks due to wanting to believe the creature bluffing you, or any pre-existing emotional connections that might lead your judgment astray. On top of that, you gain a +5 circumstance bonus on all Sense Motive checks, as your social acuity is no longer blinded by unnecessary instincts to form amiable or lasting relationships with others. Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion tends to lead to a surplus of its opposing emotion, Hate, causing you to become cynical and misanthropic.

Fear. While your Fear is imprisoned, you lose much of your sense of self-preservation, and 'potential harm or death' ceases to be a meaningful reason for you to not do something. You are immune to all fear effects. However, you take a -10 circumstance penalty on rolls to resist being goaded or challenged into doing something violent or aggressive (such as by the Goad feat, or the Knight's Challenge class feature of the Knight). Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion leads to a surplus of Anger, in which arrogance, over-aggression, and constant thrill-seeking follow.

Sadness. While your Sadness is imprisoned, there is nothing in your mind that enforces feelings such as grief over lost things, sorrow at misfortune and suffering, hopelessness for bleak circumstances, or the remorse and guilt one feels at their own wrongdoing. Effects that rely on such feelings, such as a Crushing Despair or Sanctify The Wicked spell, have no effect on you. You are also unaffected by all morale penalties (though you may still benefit from morale bonuses). Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion usually leads to excessive optimism, contentment, and a sincere appreciation of life, which will probably annoy the people around you.

Hate. While your Hate is imprisoned, you are separated from the parts of your mind that take satisfaction in the suffering of others, as well as those that reflexively create the heuristics that allow you to broadly categorize and stereotype groups of people into uncomplicated parcels for easier judgment and reaction. You are immune to effects that rely on your hatred or bigotry to function, such as a Bottomless Hate spell. However, you take a -5 circumstance penalty on Initiative checks, as your involuntary instinct to do violence in order to protect yourself or further your goals is delayed by a split-second, unable to take the standard mental short-cuts towards devaluing the lives of others. Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion leads towards empathy and understanding for all living things, as well as constant consternation at the lack of enlightenment in others.

Anger. Anger is an often misunderstood emotion, encompassing the destructive anger of Rage that leads to physical and emotional violence, as well as the constructive anger of Passion, which leads to creation and catharsis. Therefore, when you imprison your Anger, you lose both bloodlust and excitement. Effects that require these things to be within you to function, such as a Rage spell, have no effect. Further, in stressful situations, you find your mind strangely clear, devoid of the need to act with urgency, and you may Take 10 on skill checks, even while being distracted by things like the threat of imminent death. However, you take a -2 penalty on damage rolls, intimidate checks, and saving throws against fear effects, as well as a -4 penalty on long-term projects that require hours or days of commitment, such as most Craft or Profession checks, Perform checks that rely on prior rehearsal, or Heal checks to provide long-term care. Prolonged imprisonment of this emotion tends to allow Fear to rule you - fear of failure and fear of not living up to your own standards or the standards of others causes you to become apathetic to things you may have one enjoyed, while fear of physical or emotional harm leads to passivity and introversion.

Projected Thought-Energy Conversion Force
Prerequisite: -

The mind is already capable of producing and manipulating energy. Electrical charges and chemical reactions surge through the brain, interpreted as thought and feeling, each mental process a massive alteration of matter at the microscopic level. The mind is power, and to truly know this is to release it, allowing one's thoughts to extrude outward and become the world around them, shaping the particles of their own being as they always did, and thereby shaping the world.

You may project brief bursts of thought-force within [(1/2 class level + intelligence modifier) x 10]ft. Each burst exerts the same amount of force as two arms from a Medium creature with a Strength score equal to your Intelligence score. However, the burst cannot be sustained - only projected in short, momentarily jabs. This can allow you to push or throw objects, pull levers, open doors, attempt to instantly break objects like doors and chests using their Break DC, and so on.

When used offensively against a creature or attended objects, your thought-force can Aid Another, Bull Rush, Disarm, Sunder, and Trip, using its effective Strength score, at its standard range, without provoking an attack of opportunity (and not allowing an opponent to do things like counter-trip on a failed trip attempt, as that would be kind of silly). It may also be used as a ranged attack that deals (1d4 + your intelligence modifier) damage. (Note that, since the force can originate from anywhere within range, you can, for example, Bull Rush a creature in any direction you choose, including towards yourself.)

All uses of this ability require the same kind of action as it would take to perform that action physically. For example, if it would take a standard action for a creature to pull a particular lever, it takes a standard action for you to pull it with your mind. If you have two attacks per round due to a high base attack bonus, you could use your thought force to deliver a Bull Rush and then a Trip, since these require only an attack-equivalent action. In most cases, if manipulating something would require longer than a full-round action (like cranking a heavy wheel, for example), you probably can't do it with your thought-force (yet).

Proximate Thought-Energy Conversion Force
Prerequisite: -

The mind is already capable of producing and manipulating energy. Electrical charges and chemical reactions surge through the brain, interpreted as thought and feeling, each mental process a massive alteration of matter at the microscopic level. The mind is power, and to truly know this is to release it, allowing one's thoughts to extrude outward and become the world around them, shaping the particles of their own being as they always did, and thereby shaping the world.

You project a very short-range field of thought-force around yourself, which allows you to bend very close objects with your will. Most often, this is used defensively, thinking away projectiles and fields of energy as they attempt to collide with you. The armor class benefit of your Perceptive class feature ceases to be a Dodge bonus; rather, it becomes an untyped bonus, and therefore also applies to your flat-footed AC. Furthermore, when you make a Reflex saving throw, you may roll twice and take the better result; are your physical or mental reflexes more qualified to protect you?

You may also turn this power to offensive purposes, tearing apart things that you come into contact with. When used as such, your unarmed attacks deal Force damage, and deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they normally are.

Advanced
Atmosphere-Regulating Daydream: Your thought-force passively regulates the temperature around your body, allowing you to exist comfortably in temperatures from -50 to 140 degrees fahrenheit without any protection.

Manufactured Carapace Safeguards: Your thought-force extends over your equipment. Any inanimate object you hold, up to your own size category in size and up to a light load for you in weight, and any item in one of your equipment slots (head, shoulders, feet, etc) gains additional Hardness equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Fantastic

Advanced Conflict-Equilibrium Matrices
Prerequisite: The 'Perfected Neo-Martial Combat Katas' Mythos

You further refine your combat katas, and work your body into a more perfect vessel for their execution. You gain the Improved Uncanny Dodge special quality. When rolling initiative, you roll twice and may take either result.

Some of the more advanced katas require a solid foundation with which to control the flow of energy between one's self, one's environment, and one's opponent. While you have a solid surface to stand upon or brace against, with an immediate area at least as large as the space you occupy (for example, 5ft for a Medium creature, 10ft for a Large creature, etc), at least as deep as you are tall, and weighing at least as much as you do, all attack rolls made against you must be made twice, utilizing the worse result, and all damage rolls you make with simple weapons are rolled twice, and you may take either result.

Advanced
Close-Quarters Crossbow Katas: You threaten the area around you with held crossbows as if they were melee weapons, and you may make attacks of opportunity with them, although the attacks of opportunity are ranged attacks made by firing the crossbow(s). Making ranged attacks with crossbows no longer provokes an attack of opportunity.

Optimized Reflexive Katas: You gain Combat Reflexes and Pursue (ECS) as bonus feats. However, you may forgo the action-point cost of Pursue by expending your one attack of opportunity for the turn. If you have multiple potential attacks of opportunity per turn (such as by the Combat Reflexes feat), you need only expend one of them to activate Pursue.

Negative-Space Bridging Katas: When taking a 5ft step as part of a full-attack, you may move up to 10ft. You gain Run as a bonus feat.

Fundamental Element Transmutation
Prerequisite: The 'Arbitrary Matter Reclamation' Mythos

You sharpen your skill at using your will to discorporate the physicality of others. Firstly, you may use your Arbitrary Matter Reclamation Mythos to impose a Fortitude save on, and potentially damage, two different targets within range using the same action. At 10th level, you may choose three targets. At 14th level, you may choose four targets. At 18th level, you may choose five targets.

Next, instead of merely disseminating something's elemental matter into the cosmic whole, you may transmute it into another element present within the target, with varying effects as noted below. Targets composed of only one of the following elements cannot be transmuted in this way. Creatures and objects native to the Far Realm are similarly immune.

Use the following elements, unless the target is an Outsider native to the Outer Planes, with at least one alignment subtype - in which case, use the second list.

Earth. A target with a solid, physical form has some amount of elemental Earth that composes their being. Dealing damage with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transmuting the target into more elemental Earth causes the parts of them that would be wounded to instead change into inert stone.

Fire. A target that produces heat from its natural life processes has some amount of elemental Fire that composes their being. Dealing damage with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transmuting the target into more elemental Fire causes the resulting wounds to spew a brief puff of flame and heat. Killing a creature or entirely destroying an object in this way causes them to dissolve into a rush of fire that can catch nearby flammable items on fire, and begin to spread and grow as normal fire would.

Air. A target that breathes or is light enough to float in the air of the Prime has some amount of elemental Air that composes their being. Killing a creature or entirely destroying an object with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transmuting the target into more elemental Air causes a strong wind that can extinguish unprotected flames (such as candles) and rustle nearby light items, as well as producing a pocket of fresh, pure, breathable air the same size as the deceased or destroying target, which quickly disperses into the space around it.

Water. A target whose body is naturally partially or wholly composed of liquid has some amount of elemental Water that composes their being. Dealing damage with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transmuting the target into more elemental Air causes the resulting wounds to release a trickle of pure, fresh water. Killing a creature or entirely destroying an object in this way causes them to dissolve into a mass of pure, fresh water the same volume as their previous form.

Positive Energy. A living target has some amount of Positive Energy composing their being. Dealing damage with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transumuting the target into more Positive Energy causes the resulting wounds to shed beautiful, scintillating light momentarily. Killing a creature or destroying an object in this way causes them to explode in a mass of positive energy that fills the space the target occupied, and an additional 5ft in every direction. Those caught in the blast are healed for 1d4 hit points, or harmed for 1d4 hit points if they are normally harmed by positive energy.

Negative Energy. An undead target, or a living target with a finite natural lifespan, has some amount of Negative Energy composing their being. Killing a creature or destroying an object with Arbitary Matter Reclamation with the intention of transmuting the target into more Negative Energy causes them to explode in a mass of negative energy that fills the space the target occupied, and an additional 5ft in every direction. Those caught in the blast are harmed for 1d4 hit points, or healed for 1d4 hit points if they are normally healed by negative energy.

For Outsiders with one or more alignment subtypes, that are native to the Outer Planes, transmuting them functions differently, because their physical form is made up of the ideological elements of the Outer Planes, rather than the physical elements of the Inner Planes.

Outsiders with two or more alignment subtypes. When you deal damage with Arbitrary Matter Reclamation, choose one of the target's alignment subtypes. They gain a number of [Chosen Alignment] Conversion Points equal to the damage dealt (for example, if the Lawful subtype is chosen, they gain Lawful Conversion Points). If an Outsider is slain such that their soulstuff returns to, and merges with, their home plane to be reconstituted (as happens with most Outsiders when they are killed away from their home plane), while they have Conversion Points for a particular alignment equal to or greater than 1/2 their maximum hit points, the spirit-stuff that constitutes their being is transmuted into a different form. They lose all alignment subtypes other than the one corresponding to their Conversion Points, and their alignment changes to match. They become a native of a different Outer Plane; one that matches their new alignment, and their soul returns to and merges with that plane instead. When they are reconstituted, they become a new entity altogether, commensurate with their new home and ideology. (For example, a Bearded Devil that is transmuted towards Law would probably merge with Mechanus, and become a low-ranking Modron upon their reintroduction to the world. Whereas transmuting Mephistopheles, Archduke of the Eighth Hell towards Law would likely cause him to become something mechanical and modron-like, though ultimately as purely unique, potent, and worldshaping as he previously was.) If an Outsider dies with multiple types of Conversion Points on them, that each exceed 1/2 their maximum hit points, they have not been tipped enough towards one extreme to be fundamentally altered. An Outsider may remove all Conversion Points from themselves by resting for 8 hours.

Outsiders with only one alignment subtype. This process functions identically to transmuting Outsiders with two or more alignment subtypes, with the following caveat. Instead of choosing an alignment subtype to determine what form of Conversion Points you infect them with, you may only give them Neutral Conversion Points. Under the previously noted circumstances, an Outsider with Neutral Conversion Points merges with the Outlands, the True Neutral Outer Plane, and will emerge as one of its natives (a Rilmani, or something more unique).

Improved Defensive Thought-Force Measures
Prerequisite: The 'Proximate Thought-Energy Conversion Force' Mythos

Use of your thought-force has become so ingrained in your mind that it has created subconscious subroutines to project autonomic energy-canceling fields around your body, deflecting harm without your conscious will or consent. Whenever you take hit point damage, which is not being paid as a cost by one of your other abilities, reduce that damage by 5. This does not stack with Damage Reduction or Energy Resistance, but is not either of those things, and functions even in situations where they would not apply.

Further, you can create weak, but sustained, telekinetic tethers within your own space, allowing you to "hold" up to (intelligence modifier) objects light enough for you to hold in one hand by levitating them up to a few feet away from your body. Placing an item that you're holding, or mentally picking up an unattended item already in your space, into a tether is a swift action, as is transferring an item from a tether into one of your empty hands. If you have the Quick Draw feat, once per round, you may reduce one such swift action to a free action. You may deactivate any or all tethers as a free action, dropping held items to the ground.

It is possible for another creature, or other environmental circumstances, to forcibly remove an item from one of your tethers. This is as difficult as it would be for an item to be forcibly removed from the grip of one of your hands, substituting your Intelligence score in place of your Strength score. Your tether is considered to be "gripping" an item in the same way you would usually hold it with your hands, unless you've otherwise specified. (For example, there's nothing stopping you from telekinetically holding a sword by the blade, but unless you specify that you're doing so, your mind subconsciously thinks of itself as "holding" the sword by its hilt.)

You gain Deflect Arrows and Snatch Arrows as bonus feats.

If you have an unfilled telekinetic tether from this Mythos, you may use it as an "empty hand" for the purposes of the Snatch Arrows feat, grabbing projectiles out of the air and holding them for you, thereby occupying that tether. Unless you have the 'Improved Offensive Thought-Force Measures' Mythos, you cannot use your mental tethers to reflexively return-throw projectiles caught by them using the Snatch Arrows feat.

Basic

Emotional Distance Literality: You may only learn this manifestation if you possess the "Personality Core Deactivation Mantra" Mythos. If you already know "Improved Defensive Thought-Force Measures" and only later gain "Personality Core Deactivation Mantra", you instantly receive this manifestation.

With an hour-long meditation-ritual, you may permanently externalize one of the six fundamental emotions featured in "Personality Core Deactivation Mantra". This creates a small bauble about the size of your fist which gently orbits your body, containing the essence of your forsaken emotion. Its exact appearance is determined by you, with the following requirements: it must be primarily one color; if you create multiple externalized personality cores, each must have a different primary color; somewhere on each bauble, the mantra you previously used to deactivate that emotion must be written; it can be written multiple in multiple languages, but it is always written at least once in the ancient script of the titans.

While your emotion is exiled to one of these external baubles, you are capable of perfectly rationally deciding when to, and when not to, act with the externalized emotion. You may consider the emotion imprisoned and not imprisoned at any moment, whichever you find most advantageous at the time. For example, if you have externalized your Sadness, you consciously choose when to feel sad. If you get hit with a Crushing Despair spell, you can simply choose not to be sad, rendering yourself immune as if your Sadness was imprisoned. However, if you don't feel like becoming a creepily utilitarian happiness machine, you can turn on your sadness from time to time to retain your humanity.

Your emotional baubles can be attacked individually as if they were your limbs; i.e. not usually. However, esoteric abilities like a Sword of Sharpness or a Teramach's Hero-Sundering Hands Mythos, which can sever limbs, can specifically target your baubles. In addition to whatever deleterious effects that these abilities might impose upon severing your emotional limb, the bauble shatters into powder and its particular emotion is considered to be irrevocably imprisoned by the 'Personality Core Deactivation Mantra' Mythos until you can spend another hour in meditation re-creating your sundered emotion. You never take ongoing damage from blood-loss from having a bauble destroyed by a limb-severing ability, because that would be weird.

This manifestation can be used as many times as desired, externalizing any or all of your emotions, though each emotion takes a separate meditative ritual.

Seeing Through The Facade
Prerequisite: The 'Arcanospectrum Optical Enhancement' Mythos

Personal Gravity Field
Prerequisite: The 'Proximate Thought-Energy Conversion Force' Mythos

Your thought-force gains enough finesse to bend the cosmic force of gravity around your physical form. You gain an (Intelligence modifier x 10)ft Fly speed with perfect maneuverability.

In addition, you are immune to gravity-based effects unless you consciously allow them to affect you. This includes the gravity traits of planes, and things like a Reverse Gravity spell.

Legendary

Consolidated Timeline Actualization
Prerequisite: -

One of the fundamental goals of the Lawgivers in creating the Great Wheel was to provide free will to all the creatures that dwell upon it. In their minds, without complete and true freedom of will, any life they brought into being would be just as meaningless as they believed the story-constructs played with by the Titans had been. So, they formed their vast multiversal machine to that effect, facilitating and regulating reality but not, itself, defining its events.

They succeeded, but the grandest and most monumental construction that will ever exist could not be made without compromise. Free will exists, but the Great Wheel must read, interpret, and reconcile trillions of acts of free will with every moment, consolidating them, instant-by-instant, into the present yoctosecond of reality. A job so impossibly complex that it is, as far as any being knows, impossible. In a truth known only to the very creators of the Wheel, and to those with this Mythos, the multiverse has a tiny 'buffering zone', in which it compiles all of the multiverse's free will for the next upcoming second or two, and then plays them as reality while it compiles more free will and creates the next few seconds.

With this Mythos, your knowledge of yourself ceases to be compromised by time. You attain absolutely perfect eidetic memory, all the way back to the moment your brain became complex enough to store thoughts while you languished in the womb. You remember it all, from your perspective, down to the last detail, and may view each moment in your mind like a still photograph. In this way, you can retroactively 'take 20' on Spot checks to notice details that happened in your past. You could, for example, glimpse a crime-scene for a mere moment then, later, spend a few minutes 'taking 20' on a Spot check to examine the crime-scene through your picture-perfect memory.

The odd part is that you can also remember 'past' events that have occurred in the Great Wheel's buffering zone, but have not yet become reality, as they have already been solidified into a part of your timeline. This gives you a kind of self-centered foresight that prevents you from ever being Surprised or rendered Flat-Footed, and you may choose to gain a +2 circumstance bonus on any roll you ever make that represents an action taken by you with free will, such as most skill checks, attack rolls, reflex saves, and damage rolls (something like a fortitude save won't usually apply, as it represents your physical hardiness, not an action you take).

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-10, 03:21 PM

Oh my gosh this is AWESOME. I'm guessing the Epistemian is the Mythic sage of some sort? I think it's safe to say either way that Neo or Morpheus is going to be in the banner.

Xefas

2017-10-10, 04:58 PM

Oh my gosh this is AWESOME. I'm guessing the Epistemian is the Mythic sage of some sort? I think it's safe to say either way that Neo or Morpheus is going to be in the banner.

"Perfected Neo-Martial Combat Katas" is a reference to Neo, as well as the Gun Katas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4mS_3hWwtk) of the movie, Equilibrium. "Baleful Crossbow Practices" is a reference to Christian Bale, who plays the lead in Equilibrium. The expansion Mythos to that one, "Advanced Conflict-Equilibrium Matrices" references both Equilibrium and the Matrix.

The banner I made years ago is in the imgur album link, wherever that is. It would be different if I made it now, I think. For one, I wrote what's here long before Kill Six Billion Demons was a thing, and I feel like someone would need to make it in the banner, given that setting's similarly nihilistic 'grand illusion'. Maybe 1 Metatron. Or something.

TraceChaos

2017-10-10, 08:14 PM

Epistemian! Sick. I'm likin' the mytyhos. Feels very 'Sidereal' in Exalted terms.

Also, 1 Metatron hasn't actually SEEN the grand illusion, or it hasn't been confirmed. There's the demiurge in the ice who has, and 6 Juggernaut Star has seen a ton, as well, but those two and Aesma are the only ones to have seen the universe for what it really is that we know.

Also ; Are there any mythos from the Mythic Dragon you're willing to share, or is that still too far off? Because I recall you saying somewhere that "At low levels, someone might wrongly assume you're some kind of half-dragon. At higher levels, people will rightly assume you're some kind of dragon." Which sounds great.

If note, that's fine.

Edit : Stuff, typo fixes.

Xefas

2017-10-11, 10:23 PM

Also, 1 Metatron hasn't actually SEEN the grand illusion, or it hasn't been confirmed. There's the demiurge in the ice who has, and 6 Juggernaut Star has seen a ton, as well, but those two and Aesma are the only ones to have seen the universe for what it really is that we know.

An excellent point. Jadis, omniscient and mindbroken from glimpsing the true shape of the universe, makes for a pretty good candidate.

Also ; Are there any mythos from the Mythic Dragon you're willing to share, or is that still too far off? Because I recall you saying somewhere that "At low levels, someone might wrongly assume you're some kind of half-dragon. At higher levels, people will rightly assume you're some kind of dragon." Which sounds great.

If note, that's fine.

What I've currently got for the dragon is not, I think, the direction I would be going in anymore if I were to write it. The half-dragon -> dragon thing is still good. But I seem to have been writing some funky psionic theme as its secondary schtick.

As consolation, I do have this smattering of Mythos from a class called the "Atelis", pulled from my scrapped ideas folder. I found reading it interesting, because I actually don't remember writing any of it, though I do vaguely remember deciding to write it. My best guess is that I cranked this out over the course of a sleepless night, probably when I had the flu or something.

Fantastic (I'm putting these first because they're far more interesting than the Exceptional ones, which are largely bland.)

Anatomical Frame Expansion
Prerequisite: -
Activation: X Biomass, where X is the difference between the amount of Biomass your current size category is worth, and the amount of Biomass the next largest category is worth. For example, if you are a Medium creature, the Activation requirement is 12 Biomass.

Your size category increases by 1 step. Your statistics change as normal for a creature that is advanced a size category. For example, a Medium creature that becomes Large gains +8 Strength, +4 Constitution, and +2 Natural Armor, but -2 to Dexterity.

Hollowed Symbiote Metamorphosis
Prerequisite: The 'Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage' and 'Vital Function Decentralization' Mythos

With your flesh-scultping acumen, combined with the real-estate freed up by the alteration of your vital organs, you are able to create a hollow space within yourself, lined with thousands of tiny connections to your nervous system.

As a full-round action, you may split yourself open and stuff a willing, helpless, or pinned creature with a size category equal to or smaller than your own, into your cavity, becoming a fleshy symbiotic suit over their body.

While functioning as a symbiotic suit;
Use the higher of your Strength or your host's Strength.
If your host is willing, you may use their Dexterity if it's higher.
Use the higher of your movement speed or your host's movement speed. If they have a movement speed you do not possess (such as Fly or Burrow), you may use it.
When you take a physical action, your host may resist, enforcing an opposed Strength check. If they are victorious, your action is wasted. You both must use your own Strength scores for this roll.
Your host cannot be targeted separately from you, except by purely mental effects. You are always the target of attacks, always make the Fortitude and Reflex saves, and so on. However, when you take damage from a physical source, be it a stab wound, or a fireball, you may apply up to half of that damage to your host.
At the end of your turn, you may choose to digest part of your host, dealing 1d6 acid damage to them. If you kill your host with this damage, or destroy their corpse with it, they are instantly dissolved and converted to Biomass.
You may use any body parts possessed by your host that you do not. For example, if your host has four arms, and you normally have two, you may act as if you had four arms.
Your size category cannot be reduced below that of your host's. Effects that would reduce your size category beyond this threshold are negated by the connection you have to your host's body.

While a host is wearing you;
They use the higher of your Strength or theirs.
If you're willing, they may use your Dexterity if its higher than their own.
They use the higher of your movement speed or their movement speed. If you have a movement speed they do not possess (such as Fly or Burrow), they may use it.
When they take a physical action, you may resist them, enforcing an opposed Strength check. If you are victorious, their action is wasted. You both must use your own Strength scores for this roll.
They gain the benefits of all of your Ancillary Mutations, provided you are not currently hiding them with Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage. When you use Fluctuating Flesh Mass, they gain the benefits of whichever form you are in as well. If you are disguising your voice with Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage, your host's voice is altered as well.
They act as if their size category was equal to your own.
They use your senses, in place of their own. If they have Darkvision and you do not, then they do not have Darkvision. If you have Scent, and they do not, then they have Scent, and so on.
As a standard action, they may attempt to tear their way out of you with an opposed Strength check. You both must use your own Strength score for this roll, but your host gains a +2 bonus on the roll if you are at half health or less, a +4 if you're at a quarter of your health or less, and a total +6 bonus if you are unconscious or in negative health. If your host is victorious, you are Staggered on your next turn, and they are spit out into an adjacent space.
When your host makes a Spot, Listen, or Search check, or any check with a Strength or Dexterity based skill, they may use their own total skill modifier or yours, whichever is higher.

Whenever one of you moves, the other moves likewise - this does not require an action on their part. After you have been attached to the same host for 24 hours, they two of you may communicate telepathically to one another, even if you do not share a language, transmitting information directly from one brain to the other.

As a full-round action, you may peel yourself off of a host, moving into an adjacent space and becoming your own creature again.

Reach-Extending Extrusion
Prerequisite: -
Activation: 1 Biomass

The cells in your limbs store a little extra musculature in them, compacted and folded away until needed. Your Reach extends by 5ft, but this quality is not immediately apparent to onlookers. Instead, when you need the extra Reach, your limbs extend themselves, gaining length from seemingly nowhere, then retracting back into seemingly nowhere when finished. The first time you attack a creature with this extra Reach, if they have no reason to believe you can extend your limbs, they are flat-footed for the attack.

In addition, you may unleash a thin, ropy tentacle as a swift action. The tentacle can reach a maximum of (class level x 5)ft, plus 15ft if you're Small sized, 30ft if you're Medium, 60ft if you're Large, 120ft if you're Huge, 240ft if you're Gargantuan, and 480ft if you're Colossal.

If aimed at a creature, you must make a Ranged Touch Attack against them. If successful, your tentacle wraps around and holds them. While you have a creature snared in this way, you may make Bull Rush attempts against them, regardless of the distance separating you, but you do not provoke an attack of opportunity, they cannot attempt to counter-Bull-Rush you if you fail, and you may move your target up to 5ft per point you beat their check by, rather than per 5 points. You cannot Bull Rush a creature in such a way that they are moved further away from you; you must pull them towards you, or yank them to the side. If you yank a creature hard enough that they impact a solid barrier, they and the barrier both take 1d6 damage per 5ft of forced movement they were unable to move.

If aimed at an object, you must make a Ranged Touch Attack against it. If successful, your tentacle sticks to it. If the object is a Light Load for you or less, you may pull it towards you or yank it to one side as a standard action, moving it up to 50ft. If it weighs between a Light Load and Medium Load, you may only move it 25ft. If the object impacts another character, they make an opposed Strength check against you. If they succeed, the object stops moving, and they are unmoved. If they fail, they are dragged along with the object for as far as your action is forcing it to move.

If aimed at a solid structure, you may have the tentacle secure itself to the surface, and then use it like a grappling hook for climbing, or for swinging.

Your tentacle has an Armor Class of (5 + your Natural Armor Bonus), and a number of hit points equal to your Constitution modifier. It shares any Fast Healing you have from Mythos. If its hit points are reduced to 0, the tentacle is severed and you must wait one full round before redeploying it.

You may have a total of two of these tentacles deployed at once.

Thousand Eyes Idol
Prerequisite: -

Your body grows small, fleshy eyes in strategic places all over its body. You gain Quick Reconnoiter (CA) and Danger Sense (CA) as bonus feats, as well as the Uncanny Dodge class feature, which allows you to retain your Dexterity bonus to your AC even if you're caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker.

Finally, you gain the All-Around Vision special quality, which provides a +4 bonus on Spot and Search checks, and prevents you from being flanked.

All the benefits of this Mythos are an Ancillary Mutation.

Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage
Prerequisite: -

You may shape the exterior flesh of your body to change your appearance, as well as altering your voice, as a full-round action. This can make you as tall or as short, as thin or as fat, as you choose within the bounds of your size category. Your hair and skin color can be altered at your whim, and you may apply as many minor cosmetic features, such as scars, birthmarks, tattoos, and so on, as you wish. You can alter your sex to any possible for your race, growing fully functional reproductive organs in the process.

You may conceal the physical appearance of any Ancillary Mutations you have, but you lose their benefits in the process. You may choose to use a concealed Ancillary Mutation while disguising yourself, reinstating its benefits, but its physical appearance appears on your disguise until you use another action to re-disguise yourself.

You may also create the appearance of clothing or armor over your body, extruding a thick layer of flesh and then shaping its surface to mimic fabric, leather, metal, or what-have-you. You can mimic the sound of clinking armor or rustling cloth, and the tactile feeling of linen or steel, and so on, but they do not actually confer the benefits of clothing or armor, such as protection against heat or cold, or an Armor Class bonus. And, of course, you cannot take your flesh-wear off.

You may use this Mythos to mimic a specific person. However, this requires a Disguise check to determine the authenticity of the various details a character might notice to out you as an imposter. The benefits are that you do not require a disguise kit, being able to create whatever modifications you need from your flesh, and you take no penalty on the check for impersonating a different gender, race, or age category.

If you consume a piece of a person, equivalent to a lock of hair, a finger, or an eyeball, or larger, you gain a +10 bonus on Disguise checks to impersonate them with this Mythos. If you consume a person's entire body, from scalp to toes, bones and organs all, this bonus increases to +20.

Vital Function Decentralization
Prerequisite: -

Your vital organs are separated into smaller components, reinforced with a multitude of redundancies, and dispersed throughout your entire body, reducing the danger presented by catastrophic damage to any one location. You are immune to critical hits and precision damage (such as sneak attack and sudden strike), and decapitation no longer kills you. Effects targeted against individual organs (such as a Heartclutch spell) have no effect on you.

Furthermore, the destruction of one of your sensory organs does not actually inhibit its functionality. For example, you may still see if your eyes are cut out, although you may still be magically blinded, as some other part of your body will pick up the function of transmitting visual data to your dispersed brain-packets. Having your tongue cut out means nothing when you can use your entire body to taste with. And so on.

Every hour, you recover from one point of Ability Damage or Drain, in addition to any natural healing.

Exceptional

Compounded Keratin Offense Mechanism
Prerequisite: -

Your body has judged the weapons of its birthright insufficient for its purposes. Your hands rebuild themselves, bones hardening, joints reinforced, the structures of your nails bracing themselves deeply, and sharpening at the ends, forming functional claws. Under close inspection, they look unsettling inhuman, but casual interaction merely leaves an impression that your hands are 'odd'.

You gain Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB) as a bonus feat, and you may deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage with your unarmed strikes. You also gain a Climb speed equal to one half of your Land speed while you have one hand free, or equal to your Land speed if you use both hands to climb.

Finally, your body passively improves the structure of its weaponry over time. At 5th level, you gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks, and your unarmed attacks bypass damage reduction as if they were magical. At 10th level, this enhancement bonus increases by 1, and your unarmed attacks bypass damage reduction that may be bypassed by a particular material (such as silver or cold iron). At 13th, 15th, and 17th level, this enhancement bonus increases by another 1.

All the benefits of this Mythos are an Ancillary Mutation.

Constant Combat Evolution
Prerequisite: -

In the stress of battle, your conscious mind is occupied with the stress of violence and impending death, levying all of its know-how towards survival and victory. However, the primitive minds awakened within your cells are doing their own part to defend you, subconsciously noting the movements of your predators and prey, and subconsciously adjusting your movements to take advantage of what they've gleaned.

Every time you are hit with an enemy's attack and take damage, you gain a +1 Insight bonus to your Armor Class, up to a maximum of your Constitution modifier.

Every time you fail a saving throw imposed by an enemy, you gain a +1 Insight bonus to saving throws of the same kind, up to a maximum of your Constitution modifier.

Every time you miss with an attack roll against an enemy, you gain a +1 Insight bonus on attack rolls against the same opponent, up to a maximum of your Constitution modifier.

All accumulated bonuses vanish 5 minutes after you can no longer perceive direct danger to yourself, as your cells relinquish their life-or-death stress, and go about their normal duties.

Fierce Jungle-Queen Fitness
Prerequisite: -

Your muscles and tendons rebuild themselves for optimum performance in a harsh and brutal world. You gain Brachiation (CA), Leap of the Heavens (PHBII), and Endurance as bonus feats.

You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Swim, and Tumble checks. Furthermore, you may substitute your Constitution modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the purposes of your ability bonus on checks with those skills, relying on the competence of your body's self-modification, rather than your innate musculature or reflexes.

At 4th level, you ignore difficult terrain composed of non-magical, natural vegetation, such as thick undergrowth or brambles.

Flesh-Eating Cannibal Maw
Prerequisite: -

You gain Death Blow (CAd) as a bonus feat.

Your mouth rebuilds itself with sharpened, hardened teeth, a longer tongue, a reinforced, wider-opening jaw, and an esophagus more fit for swallowing larger, unchewed portions. A separate channel between your nose and lungs is incorporated, so you can still breathe with an obstructed throat.

You gain a natural Bite attack, which can be used as a primary or secondary natural weapon. Its base damage for a medium creature is 1d6. When you utilize your Death Blow feat to deliver a Coup De Grace with your natural Bite attack, you may specifically target a particular vital organ, such as the heart or brain, tearing it out and swallowing it whole on a successful kill.

After killing a creature in this way, you gain a surge of adrenaline, removing any ongoing Fear effects on you, and giving you a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls for 5 minutes.

Creatures with this Mythos do not necessarily look abnormal while just going about their normal business. However, speaking reveals the freakishly sharp teeth, and utilizing one's Bite attack fully reveals the Atelis' terrifying, aberrant nature.

The Bite attack granted by this Mythos is an Ancillary Mutation, but the other benefits are not.

Fluctuating Flesh Mass
Prerequisite: -

Using similar methods to how your awakened cells can condense and store vast quantities of Biomass in your relatively limited frame, you gain a degree of control over your shape.

As a swift action, you may change between an Inflated Form, Deflated Form, or your normal shape.

While in your Inflated Form, you add muscle and mass to your body, gaining a +4 bonus to your Strength, and gaining the Powerful Build trait (Whenever you are subject to a size modifier for an opposed check, you are treated as one size larger if doing so is advantagous. You are also considered one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size can affect you. You can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger than yourself without penalty.) and you are treated as being one size category larger than you are for the purposes of your unarmed attack damage (if you already houserule that Powerful Build increases unarmed attack damage, ignore this).

While in your Deflated Form, you contract your body as much as possible, gaining thin, wiry, muscles. You gain a +4 bonus to your Dexterity, and gain the Slight Build trait (Whenever you are subject to a size modifier for an opposed check, such as for the Hide skill, you are treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous. You are also considered one size smaller when 'squeezing' through a restrictive space. You may use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty.)

Deflating yourself is often enough to slip through ropes, manacles, and other bindings without a check, unless they're deliberately tied or constructed with failsafes in mind for such an ability. Even in such cases, if you are tied up (or grappled) while in your normal state or your Inflated Form, and you Deflate yourself, you add your Constitution modifier as a bonus on Escape Artist checks to escape the bindings (or grapple) until the end of your turn. You may Inflate and Deflate turn after turn to continue gaining this bonus on subsequent attempts, if necessary, stretching out ropes and confounding would-be grapplers.

Heightened Predator Senses
Prerequisite: -

Your sensory organs rebuild themselves for heightened sensitivity. You gain Track as a bonus feat, the Scent special quality, Low-Light Vision, and Darkvision out to 60ft.

You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on Spot, Listen, Hide, Move Silently, and Survival checks. Furthermore, you may substitute your Constitution modifier in place of your Wisdom or Dexterity modifier for the purposes of your ability bonus on checks with those skills, relying on the competence of your body's self-modification, rather than your brain's intuition.

Finally, when using your Track feat, you do not take the -5 penalty for moving at your normal speed while tracking.

Optimized Battle Appendage
Prerequisite: -
Activation: 2 Biomass

One of your arms transforms into a grotesque, but highly effective, organic instrument of death. It no longer serves the functions of a hand, but when used offensively, it works as an unarmed strike that deals damage two size categories larger than usual, and is considered a two-handed weapon for the purposes of your Strength modifier to damage and the Power Attack feat. Choose whether it is a bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing weapon.

At the end of your turn, you may choose one creature you successfully struck and dealt damage to with your Optimized Battle Appendage.
[list] If it was a Bludgeoning Appendage, usually a thick arm topped with a massive ball of gristle and bone, you make a free Bull Rush attempt against the target. Unlike a normal Bull Rush, you may send the target in any direction of your choosing. If you succeed with a wide enough margin to push the victim beyond 5 feet, you may do so without needing to follow them. Instead, you merely send them arcing through the air with a mighty blow. If this causes them to strike a solid barrier, they and the barrier both take 1d6 damage per 5 feet of forced movement that they were unable to take due to striking the barrier. On a failed Bull Rush attempt, your target cannot react to counter-Bull-Rush you.
If it was a Slashing Appendage, usually a long limb topped with an axe-head of bone, or with a long sharpened blade of bone protruding from one side of the limb like a cleaver's blade, your chosen target must make a Reflex save. On a failed save, their armor takes the same amount of damage you dealt to them with the attack that triggered this ability. If you destroy an opponent's armor in this way, you gain its gold piece value in Mythos Points.
If it was a Piercing Appendage, usually an oversized mass of bony spikes, or a spindly arm ending in a massive double-headed pick, your target must make a Fortitude save or begin to bleed for 1 hit point of damage at the beginning of each of their turns. This lasts for 1 minute, until the victim receives at least one point of magical healing, or receives a DC 10 Heal check as a standard action. A creature can suffer from multiple bleeding wounds of this kind at the same time.

This is a Prime Mutation. When you spend an action to swap your Prime Mutation, you may change which kind of appendage (Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing) this Mythos grants you.

Pack Hunter Instincts
Prerequisite: -

Something has changed in your brain chemistry, giving you the killer instincts of a predatory beast.

You gain Combat Reflexes, Deft Opportunist (CAd), Clever Opportunist (DotU), and Expert Tactician (CAd) as bonus feats.

Photosynthetic Flora Hybridization
Prerequisite: -
Activation: 1 Biomass acquired through consuming photosynthetic vegetable matter, and at least 4 ranks in Knowledge (Nature).

Your body incorporates plant-like qualities into the cells of your skin and digestive system, as well as in a few other important places.

As long as you are exposed to 1 hour of natural sunlight a day, or 2 hours of any light, you do not require food to sustain yourself for the day, although you still require water as normal, and your natural healing rate is doubled. This alteration causes your skin to take on a slight greenish tone that, while not making you look immediately inhuman, is still noticeable enough to be noteworthy.

You are immune to poisons, and may speak with plant-life as if by a Speak With Plants spell, as an Extraordinary ability, your body releasing pheromones to communicate the intent of your words.

At 6th level, if you are properly watered, and have been exposed to light for the aforementioned length of time necessary to obviate traditional foods, you gain Fast Healing 1 for 24 hours. This Fast Healing increases by 1 per two levels above 6th (2 at 8th, 3 at 10th, etc).

All the benefits of this Mythos are an Ancillary Mutation.

And the class's "Biomass" feature.

Biomass: Although an Atelis' body is eager to shape itself, perfection is not free. Many of their mythic abilities require raw materials to function, measured in Biomass. Biomass is stored within an Atelis body, to a maximum of (class level) points, plus an additional amount based on their size. This is +1 for Small, +2 for Medium, +4 for Large, +8 for Huge, +16 for Gargantuan, and +32 for Colossal. If an Atelis's size changes such that they can no longer contain all their Biomass, they disgorge a voluminous purple slurry containing the excess. This slurry can be reconsumed to regain the lost Biomass, by the original Atelis or another.

An Atelis acquires points of Biomass by consumption. To avoid lengthy debates at the table about weight and mass, here is a simplified guideline for how much Biomass something is worth: An amount of meat equivalent in size to a Small creature is worth 1 Biomass. A Medium creature equivalent is worth 4, a Large is worth 16, a Huge is worth 64, a Gargantuan is worth 256, and a feast equivalent to a Colossal creature is worth 1024. Vegetable matter is worth half as much for its size.

A single point of Biomass can be consumed in parts, such as eating a plate of steaks, rather than having to swallow an entire animal whole, but if an entire point of Biomass isn't conglomerated in the span of a few minutes, it's wasted. That is, you can't eat one trail ration every day for two months and create a point of Biomass - it has to be taken in one sitting.

Some notes on not being a cannibal: For the non-squeamish, buying a cow from an average settlement only costs 10 gold pieces, and is worth 4 Biomass once you kill it and gorge yourself on its raw, bloody flesh. To eat like a civilized person will usually cost you about 30gp per point of Biomass, assuming you can even find an inn or restaurant that will prepare such a large meal on short notice, and won't chase you out of town with pitchforks once they see you eat it all in one go.

Based on the above, I'm almost certain that Past Me was going to have the Legendary Mythos focused around spending Biomass to spawn NotZerg, based around a system of granting Primary and Ancillary Mutations. I assume the Shintai was going to be either becoming an immobile Overmind structure, or using the Symbiote Fantastic Mythos to permanently 'chrysalis' onto someone else and fuse with them. Or maybe one of each.

ImperatorV

2017-10-11, 11:12 PM

...It's funny, I was just re-reading the Kreikiri, which is also a biology-themed mythos class. One that has a Shintai to turn into a immobile flesh-fortress spawning not-creep, at that. The Atelis seems very different in how it approaches the subject matter, though.

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-12, 12:45 AM

Yeah, it seems like an even cross between the Epifovian and the Kreikiri- so it was probably made before either of them. How appropriate, that something so Lovecraftian was written unremembered in a tortured fever-dream...

Either way, those could easily be repurposed as new Mythos for said classes, if the Atelis doesn't have enough on its own. If it does, the main concern is finding a picture of the Thing that can be shown on the boards for the banner...

Lanth Sor

2017-10-12, 09:03 AM

Zerg like all the Big ones. Initially i thought i was reading things for the becoming a dragon class.

Quarian Rex

2017-10-13, 02:01 PM

"Atelis"

For the love of the babby jebus finish this. I'm a huge fan of body horror and this looks like it has a lot of potential. There can never be enough shapeshifting symbiont weirdness.

Lanth Sor

2017-10-13, 05:55 PM

Thinking of hashing up the Syntrophos counter for armor so far i have, for my options.

Venom(Marvel) (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Venom)
BerskerkerArmor(Berserk) (http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Berserker_Armor)
Iron Man (SentientArmor) (Earth-616) (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Man_(Sentient_Armor)_(Earth-616))
Senketsu(Kill LaKill) (http://kill-la-kill.wikia.com/wiki/Senketsu)
Cyborsuit(Starkid) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Kid)
Alphonse Elric (FullMetal Alchemist) (http://fma.wikia.com/wiki/Alphonse_Elric)

Lanth Sor

2017-10-14, 10:00 AM

Quick update I made a Discord for Mythos class discussion.

Discord Channel (https://discord.gg/S3byBQd)

TraceChaos

2017-10-14, 11:04 PM

Hollowed Symbiote Metamorphosis
Prerequisite: The 'Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage' and 'Vital Function Decentralization' Mythos

With your flesh-scultping acumen, combined with the real-estate freed up by the alteration of your vital organs, you are able to create a hollow space within yourself, lined with thousands of tiny connections to your nervous system.

As a full-round action, you may split yourself open and stuff a willing, helpless, or pinned creature with a size category equal to or smaller than your own, into your cavity, becoming a fleshy symbiotic suit over their body.

While functioning as a symbiotic suit;
Use the higher of your Strength or your host's Strength.
If your host is willing, you may use their Dexterity if it's higher.
Use the higher of your movement speed or your host's movement speed. If they have a movement speed you do not possess (such as Fly or Burrow), you may use it.
When you take a physical action, your host may resist, enforcing an opposed Strength check. If they are victorious, your action is wasted. You both must use your own Strength scores for this roll.
Your host cannot be targeted separately from you, except by purely mental effects. You are always the target of attacks, always make the Fortitude and Reflex saves, and so on. However, when you take damage from a physical source, be it a stab wound, or a fireball, you may apply up to half of that damage to your host.
At the end of your turn, you may choose to digest part of your host, dealing 1d6 acid damage to them. If you kill your host with this damage, or destroy their corpse with it, they are instantly dissolved and converted to Biomass.
You may use any body parts possessed by your host that you do not. For example, if your host has four arms, and you normally have two, you may act as if you had four arms.
Your size category cannot be reduced below that of your host's. Effects that would reduce your size category beyond this threshold are negated by the connection you have to your host's body.

While a host is wearing you;
They use the higher of your Strength or theirs.
If you're willing, they may use your Dexterity if its higher than their own.
They use the higher of your movement speed or their movement speed. If you have a movement speed they do not possess (such as Fly or Burrow), they may use it.
When they take a physical action, you may resist them, enforcing an opposed Strength check. If you are victorious, their action is wasted. You both must use your own Strength scores for this roll.
They gain the benefits of all of your Ancillary Mutations, provided you are not currently hiding them with Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage. When you use Fluctuating Flesh Mass, they gain the benefits of whichever form you are in as well. If you are disguising your voice with Wool-Stealing Wolf Camouflage, your host's voice is altered as well.
They act as if their size category was equal to your own.
They use your senses, in place of their own. If they have Darkvision and you do not, then they do not have Darkvision. If you have Scent, and they do not, then they have Scent, and so on.
As a standard action, they may attempt to tear their way out of you with an opposed Strength check. You both must use your own Strength score for this roll, but your host gains a +2 bonus on the roll if you are at half health or less, a +4 if you're at a quarter of your health or less, and a total +6 bonus if you are unconscious or in negative health. If your host is victorious, you are Staggered on your next turn, and they are spit out into an adjacent space.
When your host makes a Spot, Listen, or Search check, or any check with a Strength or Dexterity based skill, they may use their own total skill modifier or yours, whichever is higher.

Whenever one of you moves, the other moves likewise - this does not require an action on their part. After you have been attached to the same host for 24 hours, they two of you may communicate telepathically to one another, even if you do not share a language, transmitting information directly from one brain to the other.

As a full-round action, you may peel yourself off of a host, moving into an adjacent space and becoming your own creature again.

This. THIS IS GREAT. I tried a while back to make a symbiote mythos, failed, and never tried to go back because I'm just not great at mythos creation. I really want the ability to use this some time, play a Spider-Man style symbiote and such.

Very cool times, either way. Shame it's a scrapped idea.

Zale

2017-10-15, 12:46 AM

"Perfected Neo-Martial Combat Katas" is a reference to Neo, as well as the Gun Katas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4mS_3hWwtk) of the movie, Equilibrium. "Baleful Crossbow Practices" is a reference to Christian Bale, who plays the lead in Equilibrium. The expansion Mythos to that one, "Advanced Conflict-Equilibrium Matrices" references both Equilibrium and the Matrix.

The banner I made years ago is in the imgur album link, wherever that is. It would be different if I made it now, I think. For one, I wrote what's here long before Kill Six Billion Demons was a thing, and I feel like someone would need to make it in the banner, given that setting's similarly nihilistic 'grand illusion'. Maybe 1 Metatron. Or something.

Banner Link (https://imgur.com/a/EPekI)

Quote:

Epistemian
"See your world through my eyes - a universe so vast as to be immeasurable; incomprehensible, even to your greatest minds." ~Algalon the Observer, World of Warcraft

The nature of the titan, whose name was 'Union' to her brothers and sisters, was not one of power, presence, or strength, but of simple sight. The Epistemian has had the misfortune of stumbling into the same narrative, and with it, become able to see. See, truthfully. See the world as it truly is.

Theirs is a fate worse than death.

I thought they had a SWLIHN taste.

Xefas

2017-10-15, 01:30 PM

Quick update I made a Discord for Mythos class discussion.

Discord Channel (https://discord.gg/S3byBQd)

I forgot to thank Lanth for making this Discord while I was on last night. So. Thank you!

I'll probably be back on at 10ish pm*.

*(That's 8.5 hours from this post.)

TraceChaos

2017-10-17, 09:52 PM

Graven Void Shintai
Prerequisites: The Undead type, at least One(1) Oblivion-descriptor Mythos.

Few Olethrofex have allowed Oblivion to seep into themselves in such a way as to fully change who and what they are. With this mythos, you will be one of them.
The effects of this Mythos are not gained immediately upon taking it. You must first find some place you consider safe to sit and meditate. This begins as a simple light trance, which gradually deepens. The meditation is on the Oblivion, the simple 'nothing' that you have let sink into your being with previous Mythos. As you meditate, your physical form distorts slightly, and seems to bleed a strange mist into the surrounding area that distorts everything within a ten foot radius, giving it 20% concealment.
After twelve hours, the trance is deep, and this is irreversible ; the meditation must be completed. You will continue to meditate until you come to terms with the inevitability of Oblivion, and how it has changed you and is changing you still. At the end of this meditation, you stand. You are no longer Undead, but rather a strange creature of 'living metal', though the metal that makes you up is not truly alive. You are a paradox - the stain of True Oblivion in immortal form upon the Wheel.

The player cannot willfully end their meditation before 48 hours have ended, after 12 hours have passed, but may choose to allow their character to meditate indefinitely if they so choose. Once a specific amount of time (A minimum of 48 hours, again) has been chosen, the character will meditate for that time, or until attacked.

If attacked in such a way as to allow them to notice it (By them taking damage or being changed in some way against their will) the character will surge with the essence of Oblivion, impossible as that is, and deal (2d6 times Class Level) damage to everything within ten feet in any direction except themselves and any worn equipment (dealing full damage to everything affected.) Anything reduced to or below 0 hit points in this way that does not also possess this Mythos is irrevocably lost - the matter is gone, souls and bodies erased as if they never were. Nothing, not even divine intervention, can restore things lost to this effect.

At the culmination of this Mythos (After having meditated either for twelve hours and having been attacked, or for 48 hours or more and the player having chosen to end the meditation) the character's type is changed to Construct. They gain a +6 bonus to Intelligence and Wisdom as their ability to understand what is and to perceive what is is made exceedingly clear after their deep meditation on what Is Not. Their charisma, however, is set to nothing. Not zero, but rather a value of "-", as their mind is changed irrevocably, their sense of self altered from knowing that they Are Not, yet paradoxically still exist. Diplomacy and Bluff are affected as a score of - would imply the same for constitution based effects. All other skills and abilities instead use either Wisdom or Intelligence, chosen at the activation of this mythos. Despite the lack of a Charisma score, the character is still sapient (that is, intelligent and capable of reacting) and usable as a Player Character.

All Negative Energy damage that you deal is tainted by your connection to Oblivion, and deals full damage to objects and creatures, regardless of Negative Energy Affinity, Immunity, or Resistance.

You gain Damage Reduction 15 / Adamantine, as your body is made of the strange metal it is. You also, thanks to the now-active role your Oblivion-scarred soul plays in your body, gain Regeneration 1 with no bypass, as your soul has literally nowhere to go on death, and nothing to do but ensure you last until the inevitable end of all. Your Regeneration functions despite your lack of a Constitution score, allowing you to take nonlethal damage and otherwise functioning as normal.

You are also effectively divorced from the Great Wheel in such a way as to prevent any afterlife from claiming you. You have no alignment, and any Spell, Ability, or Class Feature that targets alignment simply fails when used on you. Spells or effects that check for alignment do not simply fail, however, but return with an uncomfortable result of utter lack ; while normally a Detect Evil spell would simply return with a 'negative' or 'no result', when used on, say, a True Neutral creature it instead states your lack of any alignment to those who use it on you. All similar effects do the same.

As a final note, you gain the ability to channel Oblivion energy into any melee attack you make from this point on, allowing you to add (Intelligence or Wisdom modifier, whichever is higher) Negative Energy damage to unarmed strikes, natural weapons, melee manufactured weapon attacks or melee touch attacks. You may also deal the same damage as a Touch Attack, usable in place of any attack in part of a Full Attack.

Legendary Mythos. Based off of an old work of Xefas, designed for the Olethrofex.

Later edit : I remember I intended to also prevent you from procreating in any way, also including the raising of undead, except I intended to include a 'you don't get it automatically' manifestation type things where you can use the metal you're made of to raise the undead, and or one so that if you have the infection zombies mythos thing that you could raise them but they're "Oblivion tainted" and I'd make a template for undead like that and blah.

Quarian Rex

2017-10-20, 03:48 AM

Graven Void Shintai

Good sir, I do not believe that this is a shintai. What we have here is just a straight up buff. There is absolutely no downside or any aspect that would have any effect on the way the character is played other than to note that you now have a boatload of buffs.

I realize that you did add a Cha score of "-" but you also added this...

Diplomacy and Bluff are affected as a score of - would imply the same for constitution based effects. All other skills and abilities instead use either Wisdom or Intelligence, chosen at the activation of this mythos. Despite the lack of a Charisma score, the character is still sapient (that is, intelligent and capable of reacting) and usable as a Player Character.

... completely removing any possible penalty to the ability. Worse yet, you added this little tidbit...

Diplomacy and Bluff are affected as a score of - would imply the same for constitution based effects.

... which is completely meaningless. There is no implication to using skills based on an ability of "-" since creatures that have nulls for an attribute don't have skills associated with that attribute (or at least have have documentation of how that would work in their niche situation) and don't have any attribute modifier penalty associated with the null.

Have a look at the other existing shintais. There is benefit (and usually nowhere close to the crap-ton of buffs packed into this puppy, including perfect regeneration. WTH man...) coupled with game-changing limitations to the character. I believe you have completely missed the mark.

Morphic tide

2017-10-20, 04:51 PM

Good sir, I do not believe that this is a shintai. What we have here is just a straight up buff. There is absolutely no downside or any aspect that would have any effect on the way the character is played other than to note that you now have a boatload of buffs.

I realize that you did add a Cha score of "-" but you also added this...

... completely removing any possible penalty to the ability. Worse yet, you added this little tidbit...

... which is completely meaningless. There is no implication to using skills based on an ability of "-" since creatures that have nulls for an attribute don't have skills associated with that attribute (or at least have have documentation of how that would work in their niche situation) and don't have any attribute modifier penalty associated with the null.

Have a look at the other existing shintais. There is benefit (and usually nowhere close to the crap-ton of buffs packed into this puppy, including perfect regeneration. WTH man...) coupled with game-changing limitations to the character. I believe you have completely missed the mark.

A quick fix would be having the regeneration shut off by hostile Positive Energy use, so people attempting to use Positive Energy to harm the one with the Shintai like an Undead can turn off the regeneration. More severely, clarifying that the character gets an effective -5 penalty for everything asking for a Charisma modifier makes a lot of stuff suffer significantly. Making them share in Construct weaknesses, like needing to jump through bundles of hoops to get reliable healing, adds another touch of issue. Just a bit of quick and sloppy downside application...

ThreadNecro5

2017-10-21, 05:05 PM

So in my effort to get the Tipoparchi written I am trying to think of things that could be 'lost' to base each Mythos around.

Essentially Extraordinary Mythos are things that can be denied to a person, Fantastic are things inherent and vital to being a person, higher tiers are more esoteric facts of existence that cease to apply to the Tipoparchi and the area around them, ect.

Currently the ideas list is the following:
Name
Soul
Freedom
Choice
Light
Existence
Life
Cares
Knowledge
Corporeality
Voice
Sight
Race/creature type
Identity

Any and all help is appreciated.

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-21, 09:11 PM

TraceChaos

2017-10-22, 02:17 AM

I'm power scaling Graven Void versus Sjourner of a THousand Lives.

Sojourner of a Thousand Lives gives a purely fluff-based debuff of "Lol you're lacking personality."

In return it gives +6 to all three metnals and any ten feats you qualify for, including with the feats you get frmo it. TEN. FEATS.

Compared to regen with no bypass and your diplo and bluff having no stat to them, as well as something equivalent to an exceptional mythos... doesn'ts eem like that big a deal.

The biggest debuff the Shintai there really eneds is maybe just make ALL cha skills get no stat to them.

Manslayer Shintai gives you an infinitely-stacking buff to initiative and a SICK ****ing gaze attack in exchange for "You can't tell the commoners you arne't keeping track of apart frmo one another, and I guess you have to kill people that're significant threats to you unless you didn't do all the damage tot hem." And it's not a Legendary, it's a Fantastic.

I'm well versed in Mythos, alright.

Although, again, I was considering making it incapable of any form of reproduction (Including the mythos for waving yourh ands and raising undead) except a specific addon to a previous Oletherofex Mythos (The one where you bite people and ifnect them with a virus).

NineOfSpades

2017-10-25, 09:15 AM

So, I've loved the The Kalthorros (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?456529-quot-Fall-down-seven-times-Stand-up-eight-quot-Mythos) since I first layed eyes on it. And It's always pained me to see it remain so unfinished. Given that roko10 has said that he has abandoned the project, I've decided to take up the challenge to finish the task myself. Afterall, it seems wrong to give up on a class that is built as the embodiment of never giving up.

While it's not done yet, I've managed to rebuild a lot of the Kalthorros and really supercharge it's mechanics into something that, to me, seems more suited to the concepts. So I've reached a point where I'd like to show off what I've managed to make and hopefully get some feedback from more experienced homebrewers. Here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BTl9SCx80RX4Qcf48fpAAff-Cy3vAB18o4WRXgZKcjo/edit?usp=sharing) is a link to the googledoc I've been using. I wanted to hold of on making a thread properly until I had something that was 100% playable.

If anyone has some free time, look it over and let me know how it all reads, what parts work and what parts need more polish. I'm also looking for more mythos suggestions and excellencies (Though I suppose that's true for most every mythos class).

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-25, 01:40 PM

As much as I love the concept it references, I feel like the name Determinator's Mythos is too meta for a title. Maybe something like the Struggler's Mythos, or the Unbroken Mythos.

NineOfSpades

2017-10-25, 02:01 PM

As much as I love the concept it references, I feel like the name Determinator's Mythos is too meta for a title. Maybe something like the Struggler's Mythos, or the Unbroken Mythos.

Easy enough to fix, thanks!

Bluydee

2017-10-25, 02:28 PM

NineOfSpades

2017-10-25, 02:49 PM

I don’t really understand why it’s Wisdom based though. When I think of willpower I think of the force of somebody’s personality powering through, especially considering the characters on the Kalthorros banners. I get that every single Mythos class is Charisma or Intelligence but fluff-wise it feels out of place IMO. One of the earlier iterations of this class was based off their Will Save, which I think is an interesting compromise that allows for either

I mean, I agree with you, but this is a problem with no easy solution. The simplest answer is that, Since will saving throws are based on wisdom, the basic mechanics of D&D tells us that characters with more wisdom have more willpower. It’s not a perfect fit, as I agree that pretty much any one of the mental stats could, to one degree or another, be used as justification the baseline for willpower. Intelligence is typically used for Psionic, so that could be willpower. And as you pointed out, most of the more bombastic characters that are used as sources of inspiration for the mythos are charismatic and bring great force of personality.

Then again, I suppose the answer can be arrived at by coming at it from the other direction. Who has more willpower? A movie star who’s a total airhead that gets by on their looks and charm (High Charisma, Low Wisdom), or a hermit who lives in isolation and spends endless days in meditation (High wisdom, Low Charisma)?

The alternative of using the characters will save is not, in my mind, an idea solution, mostly because by definition it will always scale faster than characters whose abilities are based off of just an ability score (Will Save=Base Will Save + Wis Modifier), which means the character has an edge over other mythos classes since those abilities usually are based off of just an ability score. I find it very hard to believe that the embodiment of willpower has a fundamental mechanical advantage, when they should be an underdog compared to their mythic peers. It doesn’t take willpower to win when you are starting with a mechanical advantage.

If nothing else, I had to pick one ability score to use as the baseline for determining the saving throws of the mythos abilities. Otherwise you’d have the save be 10+1/2 Class Level + Will Save, which just seems ridiculous and opens the door to even more crazy things to base save DCs on, like HP or armor Class.

Short Answer: I'm not super happy with it either, but I think it's probably the best choice overall.

nikkoli

2017-10-25, 03:19 PM

You could get really weird and makes the saves scale as 10+base will save + chosen stat modifier. It would be interesting because you'd get 12-22 as the base instead of 10-20, but how many abilities does that class have that are projected on others rather than focused upon themselves?

ThreadNecro5

2017-10-25, 03:42 PM

Semi-serious list of things you can lose:

Love
Faith
Face (Social connections)
One's Marbles (Sanity)
The Game
Strength
Your way (No, seriously, where are you?)
The Wi-fi Signal
Secrecy
The Advantage
Territory/Property
The Will to go on
Weight
Your keys, again

Thank you. I can work with some of these.

Is it wrong that the first of these to turn into a crumb of an idea for something was 'the keys' because as a joke I decided to see what would happen if I tried to turn that into something.

Anyway while I'm asking everyone for advice, hat are people's thoughts on this WIP class feature.
Cease to Be
The crux of the Nothing was the Young One tearing itself open and empty. The Tipoparchi in turn grows hollow before reveling themselves to the world.

At 1st level, a Tipoparchi is immune to the harm caused by contact with a Sphere of Annihilation, able to move through it as if it was not there, all items they carry also benefit form this immunity. Additionally they gain a +4 bonus on saving throws to resist Energy Drain and to remove Negative Levels. Physically the area over their heart (or the analogous location) becomes noticeably bruised or darkens as a small mote of Nothing develops in their heart.

At 3rd level, they gain immunity to Energy Drain and Negative Levels. Additionally They gain ?

The mote of Nothing within the Tipoparchi’s heart expands to replace the heart and create an opening in their chest (sometimes this only replaces the heart and opens up the bruised region, and at others it is a full cylinder right through the Tipoparchi’s chest). Due to the inability to comprehend true nothing non-Tipoparchi visually register this as a space of solid white, black, or some shade of gray. Any item that enters this nothing is destroyed as if by a Sphere of Annihilation. Generally there is no chance of this happening unless a creature does so deliberately. Any armour or clothing worn over this hole is drawn into it, creating a hole in the armour or clothing that revels the hole but otherwise does not damage the equipment. This takes an hour to occur.

At 5th level, they ?

As the second feature added at 3rd level I am considering porting over the effects of the Pathfinder Talisman of the sphere/otherwise making a portable Sphere of Annihilation. Perhaps add the ability to locate the nearest Sphere and similar voids in existence.

Morphic tide

2017-10-25, 05:09 PM

If nothing else, I had to pick one ability score to use as the baseline for determining the saving throws of the mythos abilities. Otherwise you’d have the save be 10+1/2 Class Level + Will Save, which just seems ridiculous and opens the door to even more crazy things to base save DCs on, like HP or armor Class..

...you do realize that DCs based on shenanigan numbers are an entirely useful concept, right? A save DC based on current health works quite well to incentivize not being a meat shield by making you less effective with damage. Which makes people at least try to play smart. Scaling with AC instead of Con means that you give an incentive to actually use the heaviest armor, which, coincidentally, comes pretty close to the expected ability score modifiers at higher levels. So some adjustments may be needed, but it incentivizes play styles and character builds that more conventional DC scaling values wouldn't.

Seriously, DCs based on skill checks are entirely usable. Particularly if you do something to cap them, while not having going over be completely useless.

Lanth Sor

2017-10-25, 08:38 PM

Thank you. I can work with some of these.

Is it wrong that the first of these to turn into a crumb of an idea for something was 'the keys' because as a joke I decided to see what would happen if I tried to turn that into something.

Anyway while I'm asking everyone for advice, hat are people's thoughts on this WIP class feature.
Cease to Be
The crux of the Nothing was the Young One tearing itself open and empty. The Tipoparchi in turn grows hollow before reveling themselves to the world.

At 1st level, a Tipoparchi is immune to the harm caused by contact with a Sphere of Annihilation, able to move through it as if it was not there, all items they carry also benefit form this immunity. Additionally they gain a +4 bonus on saving throws to resist Energy Drain and to remove Negative Levels. Physically the area over their heart (or the analogous location) becomes noticeably bruised or darkens as a small mote of Nothing develops in their heart.

At 3rd level, they gain immunity to Energy Drain and Negative Levels. Additionally They gain ?

The mote of Nothing within the Tipoparchi’s heart expands to replace the heart and create an opening in their chest (sometimes this only replaces the heart and opens up the bruised region, and at others it is a full cylinder right through the Tipoparchi’s chest). Due to the inability to comprehend true nothing non-Tipoparchi visually register this as a space of solid white, black, or some shade of gray. Any item that enters this nothing is destroyed as if by a Sphere of Annihilation. Generally there is no chance of this happening unless a creature does so deliberately. Any armour or clothing worn over this hole is drawn into it, creating a hole in the armour or clothing that revels the hole but otherwise does not damage the equipment. This takes an hour to occur.

At 5th level, they ?

As the second feature added at 3rd level I am considering porting over the effects of the Pathfinder Talisman of the sphere/otherwise making a portable Sphere of Annihilation. Perhaps add the ability to locate the nearest Sphere and similar voids in existence.

I need this in my life. TBH i like the oblvion aspect of Mythic necro but its oblivion from the stance of life death or Nothing, not absolute nothing.

Bluydee

2017-10-26, 08:33 AM

Short Answer: I'm not super happy with it either, but I think it's probably the best choice overall.

Personally, I think the best bet is to just let people choose whether their key modifier is wisdom or charisma. It’s not like either stat has much of an advantage over the other

And on the topic of Will Saves used as a modifier, I think it’s very thematic if they are used very sparingly, like once per day/encounter/week/level/grit point add your Will Save to any roll, or something more creative like that

roko10

2017-10-26, 02:11 PM

Drunken Jesus

2017-10-26, 04:04 PM

so is there any chance some one might revive to proidos then? i was really excited for that class. it seems when some one makes a mythic scientist, they seem to just never finish it.

roko10

2017-10-27, 05:12 AM

I’m actually planning on a rework of the Proidos, one that’s perhaps more inclined towards Augments and Templates, and with several massive buffs, so don’t worry about that. The reason why it kind of died was because I kind of forgot about it, and when I came back to work on it, it... was kind of a cluttered mess.

Also, I’m going to make a Mythic Cyborg add-on in the vein of the Mythic Warlock, so stay tuned.

NineOfSpades

2017-10-27, 08:58 AM

Wow, Nine, great job on finishing what's essentially an abandoned project, though it's less because I got bored with it and more that I hit a wall with Mythos concepts. And, well, boredom.

Also, for the Wisdom modifier debate, maybe give them the option to choose between Charisma and Wisdom to determine their Grit pool?

Not like I had much choice. The class itself refuses to give up.

I added in an excellency that will hopefully resolve the wisdom charsima issue.

Force of Will And Personality
Prerequisite:-
You draw your willpower more from your deeply held sense of self and identity rather than from focus and concentration. You may replace your wisdom modifier with your charisma modifier for determining the DC for your mythos abilities, the size of your grit pool, and the effects of any of your mythos that are dependent on your wisdom modifier.

Now it's pretty easy to switch the class from being a Wisdom focused build to a Charisma focused build.

Sgt. Cookie

2017-10-27, 12:14 PM

Mythic Elemental is up! Link! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540363-quot-Life-uh-finds-a-way-quot-3-5-Mythos-Supplement-Not-about-dinosaurs-sorry&p=22515339#post22515339)

Gideon Falcon

2017-10-27, 01:19 PM

Lanth Sor

2017-10-27, 02:59 PM

Mythic Souls Hollow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?540373-quot-Rise-brother-for-that-is-our-curse-quot-Mythos-3-5-Dark-Souls-Hollow&p=22515728#post22515728) Mythos coming soon.

Need some help with the racial balance.

roko10

2017-11-05, 12:15 PM

So, have an ridiculously unbalanced Exalted Kalthorros Shintai, meant only when the campaign goes FUBAR and you're for some reason up against enemies better suited for high Epic levels of play, as well as a slightly more balanced Dinyomi excellency that prevents you from having to derail the entire campaign just because some idiot under your command made fun of your orders.

Final Unbroken Roar Shintai
Prerequisite: -, unless you count a game gone tits up as a prerequisite.

Upon taking this Mythos, you're immediately made aware of your Mythic nature, regardless of what you initially thought it was, as well as a certain ritual that you can undertake to unleash the full power of your Mythos, albeit at a great cost. To perform this ritual, you must meditate uninterrupted for eight hours; any interruption will force you to start all over again.

However, the boons of this ritual are massive. You multiply any numerical value (such as ability scores, attack bonuses, damage AC, and saving throws) that you have or are currently benefiting from by 10x, as you finally transcend from the boundaries of lesser men. You may opt to omit certain effects from this multiplier; if you're suffering from a Slow spell, you don't have to suffer a -10 penalty to rolls. You may spend Grit points up to your class level to add a cumulative 5x to the multiplier for one minute, although you do not modify the amount of hit points or the points in your Grit pool as a result of this temporary multiplier. In addition, you learn three Exalted or lower Mythos from any Mythos class list, as you grasp beyond your limits and into the boundaries of other Titans.

Finally, your sheer power makes it nigh impossible to actually comprehend it. You (or the weltering power inside of you) cannot be detected by any means short of the five base senses: scrying sensors immediately falter, a Reth Dekala’s Weakness-Browsing Arrogance Mythos always considers you as Worthless, regardless of how far above him you actually are, abilities specifically describe to detect your life-force or Mythic essence are ineffective in actually detecting you, and much, much more. This also prevents anybody from casting teleportation effects or teleporting in a (200ft/level) radius around you, as per the Dimensional Anchor spell.

However, this power comes at a major cost; your Mythic power will slowly ebb away from you, eventually disappating completely. After completeing the aforementioned ritual, you will lose all your Exalted Mythos (except for this Shintai) after three days, Legendary Mythos after a week, Fantastic Mythos after two weeks, and Exceptional Mythos after a month. Finally, after all your other Mythos are lost, this Shintai becomes sealed, meaning that, whilst you still have this Shintai, you don't reap any benefits whatsoever from it, nor can you initiate the ritual again. In effect, you become a glorified Warrior, although you may opt to take up another Mythos class (and are considered to take your first level in that Mythic class), so long as you don't use an ability to get access to the Unbroken Mythos, such as the Mythic Amalgam line of feats or Omnicapable Human-Spirit Ignition.

(You still retain any feat granted by your Mythos, but you do not apply any modifier to them caused by Mythos. For example, if you had the Masamune-Wielding Rigor advanced manifestation of Undeniable Impact Style, you will still retain the Monkey Grip feat granted to you; however, you will still suffer from the -2 penalty from using oversized weapons, as you don't have the ability that says that you don't suffer from that penalty anymore.)

Basic

Mythless Sky(Prerequisite: Boundary-Breaking Burst): As a standard action, you may unleash a massive, decisive attack. Treat this attack as a normal attack enhanced by Boundary-Breaking Burst, but multiply the amount of rolled die by x10 whilst using it, ignore the limitation that you may only spend up to your class level in Grit points to enhance the attack, you automatically hit with the attack, and you may also apply the attack to everything within a (100ft + 25ft per class level long, 20ft+5ft per class level wide) line. In addition, should you manage to reduce someone to -10 hit points, they die, regardless of any class features, spells, or GM fiat.

Finally, should you somehow fail to kill your target with this attack, you still manage to rob them of most of their defenses; if they have any kind of immunity or resistance to anything whatsoever, those immunities and resistances are dispelled for an amount of minutes equal to your Wisdom modifier, allowing someone else to sweep in and seal or kill your target.

However, this power causes you to lose your connection to your Mythic nature at an even faster rate. After using this attack, you lose all your Exalted Mythos (except for this Shintai, which again will be rendered inert after you lost all other Mythos) after a minute, Legendary Mythos after half a hour, Fantastic Mythos after four hours, and Exceptional Mythos after twenty-four hours.

Advanced

An Tale, Renewed and Reborn: This manifestation does not exist yet; however, a particularly traumatic event happening to a former Kalthorros can reignite the spark of the Unbroken Mythos, causing them to almost spontaneously regain their access to the Mythos they once sacrificed.

Upon taking this Manifestation, you immediately regain all the Mythos lost through the effects of this Shintai, with the exception of the three free Exalted Mythos that you gained after the ritual. In addition, you may also, instead of just restoring your Mythos, choose to rebuild your character from the ground up to represent a melding of your old, Struggle-derived power and new learning. For example, a former Kalthorros who has lost his Mythos through the use of this ability, which then took to studying the flow of elements, only to lose it again through Essence Fracture may opt to replace one of his feats with Broken Omphalos Amalgam and replace several of his Exceptional and Fantastic Mythos with Kathodos-derived ones, representing him embracing both his old abilities and his new ones.

However, after taking this manifestation, you still can never replicate the ritual granted to you by this Shintai- that will be forever out of your reach.

Mass-Opinion Spurning Ephipany
Prerequisite: -

The Conqueror may be prideful beyond reproach, but, despite what many claimed, he wasn’t so fragile as to buckle and break under the hushed whispers of the lowly masses. After all, why would someone who’s risen above the level of the petty scum care about their gossip? Why would a lion care about the buzzing of the flies?

You are no longer Humbled by everyone who has seen you bested or denounced by someone who saw you as Glorious or subject to a compulsion or domination effect, only by the person who has done such an act in the first place; you’ve finally realized that the opinions of the crowd doesn’t matter so much as the fact that someone upstart thinks he's better than you.

In addition, you gain an additional condition to keep track of; Scornful, caused after you so thoroughly humiliated someone in response of you being made Humbled by them, that they can only see you in terms of fear. If you’re Scornful towards somebody, it means that you can no longer be Humbled by that person anymore; you’re forever considered Glorious to them.

Gideon Falcon

2017-11-05, 03:00 PM

It's amalgam, actually. Still, a pretty interesting mythos, and the Excellency is probably a major necessity now you bring it up. A Dinyomi probably wouldn't bat an eye at punishing people for hearing insults against him, but it would be a logistical nightmare.

NineOfSpades

2017-11-05, 04:49 PM

If you are going to make such a one-shot ability, it needs to be way over the top. I would go bigger, maybe as high as x100. If you are losing everything, it better guarantee victory.

roko10

2017-11-05, 06:07 PM

Honestly, I thought that the ability would be too overpowered if it was 100x the modifier, but considering that it's now being considered too weak, I might as well amp it even further.

-Every single numerical value of yours is multiplied by 10, and you can spend grit points to amplify them even further. The enemy also can no longer throw debuffs at you and call it a day.
-You get three Exalted Mythos from any source now, instead of just one.
-Mythless Sky now requires ungodly amounts of die, automatically hits, and now is a true "screw-you" beam that makes CLEANSE THIS WORLD AWASH IN THE FLAMES OF MINE OWN HEART look like a gods-damned peashooter. If you don't manage to kill your target(s) with this attack, you either didn't put enough grit points in the attack (but why, though?) or you really bit off far more than you could chew.

(To put things in perspective here, a reasonably-optimized Kalthorros would have a 20 in Wisdom/Charisma. Final Unbroken Roar makes it so that he has an whopping 200 points in Wisdom/Charimsa, giving him a ability score bonus of +95. If he has taken Paragon of Spirit thrice and is level 20, he now has 365 grit points. Boundary Breaking Burst gives 1d6/2 class levels plus 1d6 per grit point you spend on it, up to a maximum of your class level, a restriction which Mythless Sky waives.

So, assuming that the Kalthorros initiates Mythless Sky with a full grit point pool and expends all of his grit points, he will now have to roll 3700d6. worth of die, meaning that he deals 12950 damage on average, and 22200 maximum. At this stage, you can kill pretty much anything save from abstract concepts like Death himself (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death%2C_CR_373).)

Also, I'm thinking of adding a Basic manifestation building off Burning Blood To Cut Through Fate, too.

NineOfSpades

2017-11-06, 12:18 PM

It might be worthwhile to change the mythos so that the 'one time insta-kickass mode' is an advanced manifestation or something. As is, even with the power boost, I would likely never choose the mythos for anything other than a one-shot. It just holds way to much risk for use. Like, if the BBEG you are trying to fight just teleport away, for example.

I'm not entirely sure how to fix that issue, as it stands, since I really do like the idea of a one shot super boost with massive drawbacks.

roko10

2017-11-06, 12:22 PM

A simple passive Dimensional Anchor effect would probably nullify the “but what if he teleports” problem.

Also, the risk is actually inherent. It’s a Shintai. In a game where you don’t accidentally end up tussling with the Lady of Pain, you probably shouldn’t use it.

In other words, it’s meant for the rare situations where it’s the final battle, and through the party’s poor choices, they’re about to lose everything were it not for the Shintai.

roko10

2017-11-12, 10:11 AM

Sorry for double-posting, but Jormengand made an... uh, thing. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?541591-quot-Inspiring-quote-Nonsensical-threat!-BATTLE-CRY!-quot-3-5-Mythos-Parody-PEACH&p=22560554#post22560554)

Theseventh

2017-11-12, 10:47 PM

JKTrickster

2017-11-15, 12:00 PM

Do people still talk about Bellator and/or Kathodos or Teramach?

I have this vague notion in my head but I think it makes sense.

I don't think the Bellator should be allowed to be unarmed. At all. If they are the Iron Mythos, the Mythos that was born with War and Weapons, they shouldn't be unarmed.

Unarmed fighting is more naturalistic and/or brutal (fitting for Kathodos and Teramach).

Instead, the ability to use Bellator abilities without a weapon in hand should be a high level Shintai. In many asian mythologies, there are often Sword Saints who realize that best swordplay is "without form - without a sword at all".

I know this idea sounds really bad, but if you think about it I think it makes thematic sense.

Morphic tide

2017-11-15, 01:35 PM

JKTrickster

2017-11-15, 03:07 PM

I think for part of it, the Bellator has to be comfortable with a variety of weapons - and there are Mythos that allow for that. Even something like a spike gauntlet is a weapon.

But unarmed should be the domain of the Kathodos and Termach first and foremost.

PeacefulOak

2017-11-15, 03:19 PM

I tend to come at things from an artistic standpoint as opposed to a balance or mechanics standpoint, but here is where I see it.

The Teramach is Violence, perhaps even Poetry in Violence. It is brutality and destruction with disregard for form or manner, so long as destruction is wrought.

The Kathodos is Fluidity, their form adjusting to the nature of the energy with which they work.

The Bellator is Discipline, with violence as an extension of their discipline. Where the Teramach is a bar-room brawler, and the Kathodos is a master of many forms of Kung Fu, the Bellator would be Karate: discipline and form, striking with precision to dispatch their foes with the most finite movements possible.

There is room for each of them to strike with fists or weapons. The difference is in how they strike, with what intent and what motivation.

Lanth Sor

2017-11-17, 01:56 PM

I don't think the Bellator should be allowed to be unarmed. At all. If they are the Iron Mythos, the Mythos that was born with War and Weapons, they shouldn't be unarmed.

This I see as a referencing the more war mind of "Paying the Iron Price." The entire class is all about that practice. The "iron Price" is reference to payment through combat, and unarmed is just another face of war.

Defiantnight

2017-11-19, 05:45 AM

The Game

:smallfurious:

Rogthnor

2017-11-20, 12:35 PM

So what does everyone think of the 5e mythos classes by Xefas? I definitely prefer the 3.5 ones, the greater amount of powers and abilities makes them much more impressive to me.

PeacefulOak

2017-11-20, 01:57 PM

For those that watch this thread, but not the Finding Players forum.... I posted a re-recruitment for my ongoing Mythos game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542313-3-5-Mythos-Game-No-Longer-in-Kansas-Rerecruitment).

I look forward to seeing what interest comes up.

Gideon Falcon

2017-11-20, 11:32 PM

I'm not a big fan. They're a very clunky mechanic, what with the whole 'start at level 10' thing. The classes are interesting, but really don't carry the same feel as the 3.5 classes.
The Cynosure, I dislike on a more idealogical level- his stated idea with the 3.5 version seemed to be based around the fact that he thought the Marshall was a stupid class because of how he interpreted the Auras and the Charisma score- that it was supposed to be some mystical presence about how pretty they were rather than any actual leadership qualities. His plan was to make an 'idiot god' deal that, as he described, lead with sheer prettyness without any actual leadership ability--and I'm only barely paraphrasing here. He wanted to parody what he didn't like by reconstructing it in a much bleaker way. It's basically the same cynicism I've noted as being prevalent in the system before. I actually like the Marshall archetype, and vastly prefer the Megaligeti for the role.
His 5e version is even worse--it's basically Darkseid, and that's about it. There's not much for the use of benevolent leaders (not that the original Xefas classes are geared toward the idea of benevolent characters in the first place), just tyranny and lording over everybody. I mean, a lot of the powers can be used for good, but not any more effectively than for evil. Perhaps it's just a personal gripe, but I don't like having the system assume that nobody wants to play a straight-up good guy.

rooster707

2017-11-21, 12:21 PM

First: I had no idea the 5e Mythos stuff existed, so thanks for that. Second, as someone who was curious about the Mythos system but doesn't play 3.5, I'm really glad they exist. But I do wish there was more room for different... tones, I guess? It seems like they're all designed exclusively to be horrible amoral sociopaths, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Lanth Sor

2017-11-21, 01:13 PM

The mechanic seems like a pretty chill guy. But I agree them starting at like level 3 would make sense but level ten is kinda ridiculous. The problem is see is at level 10 you usually have done something to be of note, I'm fundamentally against starting higher than 1 but in the case of mythos classes i can understand level 3.

Something I've been playing around with was to make story prerequisites for mythos. IE Ardent Aegis Bulwark having the requirement of blocking 50 attacks that would have hit if you had not been using a shield.

Shining Shield Legionaries you have to preform a great display of defending others before a large group of people.
The orc horde bears down on the town of Thorpe and Kendok the Agios jumps down from the gate shield in hand taunting the orc warband. As the orcs draw to the easy target they are picked off one at time by archers and Kendok's trusty ax. After the battle 3 of the militia inform him they wish to follow him.

Inevitability

2017-11-26, 10:36 AM

In the category: "I hate thing and all who like thing is wrong." (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?541591-quot-Inspiring-quote-Nonsensical-threat!-BATTLE-CRY!-quot-3-5-Mythos-Parody-PEACH)

dethkruzer

2017-11-26, 11:55 AM

Inevitability

2017-11-26, 01:16 PM

Oh huh, it did. That's what I get for skimming over the previous posts after a lengthy absence.

Gideon Falcon

2017-12-16, 11:33 PM

So, a Mythos for the Taramach that's been bouncing in my head for a while:

Crossed Passions Bestial Morality License (Exceptional)
Prerequisites: Alignment other than True Neutral

In its natural state, the Monster recognizes no master. It heeds no code of conduct, has no allies, listens to no call but that of bloodshed. You, as much as you channel the Monster in your story, are not the Monster. Bloodshed is not your purpose, but your tool, and you can do the impossible and restrain the Monster within you, feeding its anger to serving a higher cause.

Whenever you witness an action in opposition to your alignment, you may fly into a Rage which lasts 1 minute. During this Rage, you gain +4 to strength, and all your attacks deal additional damage to targets of an opposing alignment equal to your strength modifier.

Basic Manifestations:
Red Rage of Compassion: Requires Good alignment: While in a Rage, you are capable of some amount of mercy: You may deal nonlethal damage, and need not slay unconscious opponents.
Caged Beast Fighting for Freedom: Requires Chaotic alignment: While in a Rage, you need not move directly towards your enemies; You may skirt along the edges of the battle, for example, so long as you do not move directly away from your enemies (to within 45 degrees or so).
Antidisestablishmentarian Vice-Grip Fury: Requires Lawful alignment: While in a Rage, you may move away from enemies so long as doing so would bring you closer to your allies, and may utilize the Aid Another action.
Cruelty Raging at Weakness: Requires Evil alignment: While in a Rage, you may attack allies freely as if they were enemies.
Advanced Manifestation:
Stench of Evil: While in a Rage, you can smell opposite alignments as if with a crude form of the Detect spells: You can detect most aura strengths as if with the Scent ability; creatures with at least Overwhelming aura strengths are always considered upwind of you. If the aura would be strong enough to stun you using the spell, you can detect it as if with the Keen Scent ability, and instead must save against Nausea for one round at the same DC (see the spell description).

So, yeah. I'm not entirely happy how the non-good alignments turned out, since I'm not sure Evil actually does anything (I don't know that Aid Another is restricted normally, and you can technically arbitrarily decide an ally is your enemy now at any time), but there's not really anything I can think of that an evil person would want to do that Rage prevents.

I would also love to see more Epic Mythos PrCs. I have an idea for an Agios one that's based on becoming an Archangel, and I mean a real angel, not those dinky Solars. Unfortunately... that's literally my idea. No clue where to go with it.

Lanth Sor

2017-12-18, 12:10 PM

Evil lets you Monologue about the righteousness of your cause.

Gideon Falcon

2017-12-18, 05:42 PM

That is absolutely perfect and wonderful... Now how can I express that beyond "Just stand there and talk?" Demoralizing is still allowed normally, even if you don't have an ability to make it as a swift action.

Lanth Sor

2017-12-18, 06:01 PM

Allow Diplomacy.

Gideon Falcon

2017-12-19, 01:56 AM

That would be giving Evil characters the most nonviolent option of the bunch. Also, now I think about it, stopping to talk is pretty much exactly the point where it stops being a Rage. A frothing-mouthed berserker may still leave survivors or kite around or stand in front of his allies from the idiosyncrasies of his alignment, but lecturing as a Rage activity more fits in to a scholar archetype -- which this is not.

Gideon Falcon

2017-12-30, 02:01 AM

Sorry for the double post, but I've been looking through the Bellator a lot lately, and I figured I could make a better version of the defunct "Zenith of the Nine Arts" Mythos for high-level and Epic play. Here goes:

Zenith of the Nine Arts
Exalted
Prerequisites: 'Perfect [Discipline] Lotus' Mythos (All manifestations), 'The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep' Excellency, 'One Kick a Thousand Times' Mythos

The Bellator is the embodiment of the supreme perfection in combat that Reshar strove for in his journeys, and which his followers try to imitate in the Sublime Way. You have surpassed them all in their understandings of the Path, now standing equal to Reshar himself. Assuming you haven't gone even further already.

You gain the Ninth level maneuver (or maneuvers, if there are more than one) of any and all disciplines for which you have the 'Perfect [Discipline] Lotus' Mythos with all manifestations, including those you gain at later points. In addition, 'The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep' applies to all such disciplines as well.

Furthermore, your Passive Strike can be chosen from both 1st and 2nd level maneuvers, and you may have two Passive strikes at a time, changing one or both as normal. Fundamental Maneuvers, for the purposes of the 'One Kick a Thousand Times' Mythos, can be up to 3rd level.

Basic
Mastery of the Basics: You may now have a Passive Boost in addition to your Passive Strikes, a 1st or 2nd level Boost maneuver (which must not be instantaneous) that affects you constantly without needing to activate it.

Perfection of the Nine: All martial maneuvers you initiate which require a saving throw increase their DC to (10 + 1/2 your Bellator level + the higher of your Strength or Intelligence modifiers), and you add half your Bellator level to any skill check or opposed ability check used as part of a maneuver.

The Lotus Spreads Its Seeds: Requires Bellator level 24: You may use an additional Passive Strike at once. You may select this manifestation multiple times, each time adding four to the required level. The effects stack. If you also have a Passive Boost, you gain an additional one for every two times this manifestation is taken.

Thoughts?

Also, an Excellency just for more esoteric warriors, since it doesn't fit anywhere else:

Esoteric Understanding of the Mage-Warrior
[Excellency]
Prerequisite: One Legendary Mythos

When using or gaining Mythos and Excellencies relating to Martial Disciplines, such as [Discipline] Seed Awakening, Unconventional Style Application, and Zenith of the Nine Arts, you are no longer restricted from learning and using Supernatural maneuvers. Unlike most Mythos abilities, these are still considered Supernatural abilities.

Morphic tide

2017-12-30, 03:19 AM

khadgar567

2017-12-30, 03:44 AM

Primal Fury

2017-12-30, 01:49 PM

...I'm not sure what scares me more about that. The fact that the Bellator gets to have multiple automatic Strikes applied to each attack pre-Epic, or the fact that Reshar was so absurd that he apparently had abilities requiring Exalted Mythos to keep up with.
I think it makes more sense to say that Reshar just IS a Bellator.

Also. I made a thing that's... kind of horrible. Does anyone want this, or am I stuck with it?

The Sanrasha

https://i.imgur.com/VH9e1Cv.jpg

The Dowager's Mythos: *snip*

Exceptional mythos are the tools of succubi and incubi in mortal skin skulking through the shadows of civilized society. They devour the innocence of others to sate their own ravenous lusts, and leave mutant children in their wake doomed to lash out against a world that will inevitably hate and fear them. Sanrasha possessed of Fantastic mythos offer desire in one hand, and madness in the other. They straddle a world far too pure for them, seeking to infest it with moral and physical degradations whose merest mention would drive the stoutest of hearts to quake with fear and longing in equal measure. Legendary Sanrasha are the progenitors of a thousand monstrous creatures, each born and bred to spread its foulness far and wide; but their parent is far more vile. Should they deign to walk the land, even a glance dooms whole nations to debauchery and deformity. The world is barren now, filled will nothing but skittering abominations and titanic monstrosities fighting over what little is left beneath the dust. The thrones of the gods sit empty, either dead or fleeing in the wake of terrors too foul to comprehend. Even the pit has been overrun, filled to bursting with creatures born of demons and... something else. One of the Exalted has come and gone, draining the world of all natural life and replacing it with twisted mockeries of what once was.

*snip*

Morphic tide

2017-12-30, 06:29 PM

Also. I made a thing that's... kind of horrible. Does anyone want this, or am I stuck with it?

The Sanrasha

https://i.imgur.com/VH9e1Cv.jpg

The Dowager's Mythos: *snip*

Exceptional mythos are the tools of succubi and incubi in mortal skin skulking through the shadows of civilized society. They devour the innocence of others to sate their own ravenous lusts, and leave mutant children in their wake doomed to lash out against a world that will inevitably hate and fear them. Sanrasha possessed of Fantastic mythos offer desire in one hand, and madness in the other. They straddle a world far too pure for them, seeking to infest it with moral and physical degradations whose merest mention would drive the stoutest of hearts to quake with fear and longing in equal measure. Legendary Sanrasha are the progenitors of a thousand monstrous creatures, each born and bred to spread its foulness far and wide; but their parent is far more vile. Should they deign to walk the land, even a glance dooms whole nations to debauchery and deformity. The world is barren now, filled will nothing but skittering abominations and titanic monstrosities fighting over what little is left beneath the dust. The thrones of the gods sit empty, either dead or fleeing in the wake of terrors too foul to comprehend. Even the pit has been overrun, filled to bursting with creatures born of demons and... something else. One of the Exalted has come and gone, draining the world of all natural life and replacing it with twisted mockeries of what once was.

*snip*

Hmm... While the idea of a minion-focused Mythos is a nice idea, the idea doesn't have much room for anything other than CE. Taramach has some support for the "noble savage" character archetype to be CG. Not much, but enough for it to actually work without altering the crunch(this is helped by the lack of important abilities being tied to alignment requirements).

A fully Vile-themed Mythos who tosses around Taint like it's going out of style doesn't have room for a Good subset of the idea. Worse, it's actually not a common story archetype, so it's not fitting with Mythos being a connection to the platonic form of a character archetype seen in myths. Even in modern storytelling, the "mother of monsters" and bringer of taint are actually pretty rare, mostly limited to just two or three genres.

The Taramach, as an example, is supposed to represent Asura fighting to save Mithra just as much as Doomsday demolishing Metropolis to kill Superman. Also Ganon, somewhat, with that ability to have a horde of raging savages acting as backup bodies for the PC. Mythos are a common archetype, not merely an idea. Krieg from Borderlands is actually one of the example characters of the archetype represented.

As a suggestion, I'd switch it to being a more general evolution/reproduction based class, freeing up room for more versatile and less campaign breaking Mythos. Mechanically, a decent number of Mythos classes use tagged Mythos abilities, so your initial idea could be a starting point for a subset about Taint, spreading the Vile nature of that particular Anthol by corrupting everything around them. Copying some of the way the Ancient Mutations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13116092&postcount=8) from Evolutionist work would help out with streamlining how the minions are made, mechanically.

Rather important is settling on what to do for Mythos Points. Something I haven't seen done (though I haven't dug into all the Mythos) is expend Mythos Points for things other than getting Mythos, and if the class is largely about giving permanent abilities to minions and making powerful permanent minions, it stands to reason that Mythos Points should be expended for granted Mythos abilities. Which are kinda needed to make minion-spawning function as a primary function of an Anthol character. A suggestion would be rations, providing for the flesh needs of the rapid spawning that'd form the bulk of it, scaling with how much it's worth in GP to begin with, then having Mythos Manifestations or Excellencies that add the days it'd feed the Anthol(or a standard Medium creature) for and/or the power of a devoured creature slain by the Anthol.

Of course, downtime can turn into a hilarious power leveling session as every spare spell slot the Druid or Cleric has left over is spent on Goodberries and Create Food and Water, but most of the Anthol classes have cases like that available if you dig into it. In general, because they work off of the value of what's sacrificed it's possible to game the everloving **** out of it with other high-tier characters, such as Artificers making items at 20% normal crafting cost for a ten to one ratio of GP spent to power gained, or a high-level Wizard using Instant conjurations to make items of significant value for the Anthol to sacrifice as their Mythos demands.

One of the helpful edge cases of having Mythos Points as a power supply of sorts is that it makes the class somewhat friendly to multiclassing beyond what the Anthol classes normally allow, as it can use Mythos Points when you're unable to use Mythos Points on purchasing actual Mythos, enabling the use of the class in Anthol-minority builds without entirely losing the thematic value of being able to trade GP for a class function. A similar thing could be added to the Teramach for empowering Reavers. In general, trading Mythos points for other types of power would make the Anthol classes... Not exactly dippable because the rate of Mythos gain is so slow and they have to keep to a certain ceiling of Mythos power, but it makes it so they aren't severely nerfed by multiclassing.

...Actually, is it RAW-legal to use Mythos points generated by one class for another? It really wouldn't come up much because you can only spend them on Xefas-made classes when the class is the majority of the build, but dipping into Bellator as an Anakitos can be a major boon as it gives a far easier GP sink than Anakitos normally has.

Primal Fury

2017-12-30, 07:02 PM

Alignment? That doesn't enter into it all when I think about Anthols. When it mentions "corrupted flesh" it's talking more about growth without limit, like cancer. It's not inherently evil, just REALLY unpleasant. Xenomorphs don't kill you and eat you because they're EVIL; they're just animals. The Thing doesn't absorb because it's a bad guy; it's just an alien trying to survive (though that depends on your interpretation of the "Who Goes There" I suppose). Yeah. Not malignant, just alien.

Also, what I liked about the Teramach initially more than anything was that it didn't punish you for NOT being Chaotic Evil, but the Monster's Legend would eventually swallow you up if you followed that thread far enough. It's the same here. Sure, you CAN bang everything that moves and have an horrifying army of monster children, OR you can have a dedicated and willing harem follow you around and pop out horrifying monster children that do HILARIOUSLY bad things to equally bad people.

And I'm not using Taint. Here are the other class abilities.

Horrid Fecundity: After the death of her husband, She Who Became the Dowager was able to unleash all the lurid and sensuous stories his frigid nature kept in check. She had been held back for so long that every drop of her rancid ichor was overflowing with fertile energy, and will be forevermore; now that she is free, all are in danger of becoming part of her gnarled family tree. All sex acts performed with the Sanrasha result in offspring, regardless of gender; they may choose to become pregnant themselves, impregnate others, or both at once. The Anthol suffers no penalties for being pregnant. Certain mythos require the use of an unborn fetus, either within the Anthol themselves, carrying the [Expectant] tag, or someone else, carrying the [Surrogate] tag. Males who become impregnated have their offspring grow in a faux uterus, and delivered through a faux vagina, both of which remain in a vestigial state after the pregnancy comes to term.

Unspeakable Magnetism: The true horror of the Blackest Widow is not her ability to make wombs of every creature that suffers her touch, but rather her tendency to turn these victims into her willing lovers. The Anthol is found attractive by and is capable of being attracted to all creatures; this desire exists regardless sexuality, gender, race, species, or living status. The character adds half their level to all seduction rolls, whether it's a Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate check.

Gideon Falcon

2017-12-30, 07:08 PM

Well, mechanically, the evolution and minion focus is taken up by the Kreikiri, which has it's own long line of monster-making and customizing abilities, including mythos almost certainly referencing the Xenomorphs and Ragnorra, two of the characters on your chart. The fluff has some value (though I wouldn't go nearly so far or in the same direction as you seem to intend; make sure to keep it forum-appropriate), but being as niche as others have pointed out, combined with the potential for stepping on toes, means it might be better as a racial Mythos feat, like the planetouched and warlock lines.

Primal Fury

2017-12-30, 07:40 PM

Heh. Talking about it makes me want to take it back up. I'll, of course, keep it forum appropriate, but I can't promise much else.

Quarian Rex

2018-01-02, 05:57 AM

being as niche as others have pointed out, combined with the potential for stepping on toes, means it might be better as a racial Mythos feat, like the planetouched and warlock lines.

Hey, this is homebrew, a grab bag of potential awesome. If you have an interesting slant on a theme then do it. Toe-stepping shouldn't really be a factor. Even in the mythos classes there is some noticeable overlap, and really, that is quite fine. Despite the broad archetype nature of the mythos classes they really do come across as narrowly focussed, and that is where I think a lot of the classes appeal comes from. There really is quite a bit of room in each niche and the more, the merrier. I spent a lot of time poking at the mechanics of the Kreikiri and I would love to see a different take on a similar theme.

As for making it a feat vs. a class, go with the class. The ability to make permanent (or near-permanent) creatures is something that should be delved into as part of a class. There is really just too many potential possibilities to try to cram into a feat.

VoodooPaladin

2018-01-02, 07:47 AM

The Sanrasha

I am torn. On the one hand, this is well-written and well thought-out. On the other, the Dowager is one of many reasons why I have a strict Look, Don't Touch policy when it comes to Exalted. Someone at White Wolf was working through their issues on the clock, I tell you.

Go for it, man. It's certain to be interesting, at the very least.

Primal Fury

2018-01-05, 08:01 PM

Gideon Falcon

2018-01-05, 10:43 PM

Note that he never did finish the Diffuse Mind option for Neural Echoes under Necrotic Meat Mutation. If anyone has an idea, he would probably not mind developing it.

Arkanist

2018-01-14, 01:19 PM

For your consideration, a prestige class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?546312-quot-Lift-your-eyes-to-my-seat-at-the-pinnacle-of-paradise-quot-Mythos) centered around owning a Stronghold and infusing it with one's own Myth. In the thread, I'd love to take suggestions, feedback, and tweaks.

Gideon Falcon

2018-01-15, 07:52 PM

I like the Death Star capstone. Some ideas for more Mythos would be, say, some sort of Labyrinth that drives people mad if they get lost in it, predatory garden plants patrolling the outer grounds (as another offshoot from the leadership effects), and some more abilities for extradimensional spaces. It's true that the Stronghold Builder's guide can provide a lot if similar abilities with the right Landlord expenditures, but any free forms (and often improved versions) will always help make the estate that much grander.
On tell other hand, I also like how the Drawing from Arcane Wells ability works- it's based on an existing Stronghold Space feature, but gives it a new function appropriate to the Mythos system. You could find some other specialized rooms that could be given Mythos abilities to become more exotic, fantastic, and befitting a mysterious mansion.

Theseventh

2018-01-19, 08:45 PM

Ya know what? I don't think I will. After hearing y'all mention the Kreikiri, I just realized I've never actually read it to completion (or at all now that I think about it). Now that I have, it's just about everything I could've wanted in a fleshwarping class. And let me tell you, I have an... unhealthy appreciation for anything dealing with fleshwarping.

If you're reading this ThreadNecro5: Good on ya. You did some good damn work. :smallwink:

I would still love to see your take on it. The Kreikiri is my favorite mythos class out of the whole system and I support more fleshy themed spin offs!

At the very least, consider making a sort of subset of mythos as a sort of homebrew add-on to the kreikiri? I did the same thing with another Mythos class where I made a whole set of mythos that gave it a Truenaming path.

Primal Fury

2018-01-19, 10:41 PM

At the very least, consider making a sort of subset of mythos as a sort of homebrew add-on to the kreikiri? I did the same thing with another Mythos class where I made a whole set of mythos that gave it a Truenaming path.
I think I'll put it down completely. The whole "mother/father of monsters" thing raises the question as to how they make the monsters. And since "Sanrasha" is japanese for "ovipositor"... well. Let's just say, in my head at least, some of those mythos would be a bit too risque to be posted on a decent forum like this.

Also. If you look up the word ovipositor, please be careful. People are into some WEIRD stuff.

Gideon Falcon

2018-01-20, 01:16 PM

I believe someone was working on rewriting the Proidos- any news on progress in that front?

Morphic tide

2018-01-20, 03:23 PM

Also. If you look up the word ovipositor, please be careful. People are into some WEIRD stuff.
*nipple impregnation comic flashbacks* ...This is where I regret my choice of fetishes... At least it rarely crosses with scat or snuff. Pretty frequently involves insect-buggering and tentacles. Yes, both, at the same time, because ovipositors are usually rendered as tentacles rather than *****.

I believe someone was working on rewriting the Proidos- any news on progress in that front?
Of my own posts, this is the closest I can think of to such a suggestion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?457613-Mythos-Homebrew-Discussion-III-Grievous-Imbalance-Is-A-Feature/page16&p=21708963#post21708963). Looking at the Proidos, it is, mechanically, largely about adding abilities to items, with some Mythos to graft items to add abilities to into people. By appearances, it's also planned to have some form of minion creation, but that never got anywhere.

A rework would, obviously, need to actually finish the class. And also touch up the fluff, because it's a bit unfitting.

roko10

2018-01-21, 03:33 PM

Sorry, guys. I knew I promised to rework the Proidos, but that sadly never really went anywhere and really just made me disillusioned about the whole thing about halfway through. It never really got the "mad science" vibe I wanted it to, and I have the feeling that it's either horribly underpowered or overpowered depending which Mythos you pick, considering I never could playtest it.

Also, [Spell] Emulating Gadgetry and it's successor Mythos were terrible ideas that should've never been gone past the conceptual stages.

I feel that a Mythic Inventor should be far less constrained than the Proidos was, more like the 5e Michanikos than anything else, with new Mythos gained being more like building blocks for things you build rather than templates you apply to stuff. The downside of that approach is that it requires a permissive DM, though really, if they allow you to play a Mythos class, they're pretty permissive to begin with.

Jorm's "class"/scathing critique also took all the wind from my sails and made me consider quitting making Mythos content altogether, but that's less their fault and more of mine for being so oversensitive.

Still, I'm back here and considering to make some Mythos content again, though no promises on when if ever it's going to happen. Maybe a Mythic Paragons for hybrids and/or a race vaguely based on Bionicle or even the Mythic Notionbinder from way back, though it's up in the air for now.

Theseventh

2018-01-21, 07:25 PM

I think I'll put it down completely. The whole "mother/father of monsters" thing raises the question as to how they make the monsters. And since "Sanrasha" is japanese for "ovipositor"... well. Let's just say, in my head at least, some of those mythos would be a bit too risque to be posted on a decent forum like this.

Bah! GitP? Decent? A wretched hive of homebrew and abandoned ideas more like!

But fair enough, your ideas your choice. I for one am not squeamish about such things. If no one else wants to I would be willing to field ideas for a Kreikiri PRC. One needs to be made! Though I don't even know where to start. I would still love to hear your ideas Primal Fury. Even if only through private messages.

Primal Fury

2018-01-21, 07:40 PM

I guess it could work as a PrC. While it does have a few things in common with the Kreikiri, it's more like an offshoot with it's own (similar) themes.

Theseventh

2018-01-21, 07:45 PM

That's what makes it great for a PRC! Similar theme, different way of going about it.

Gideon Falcon

2018-01-22, 04:16 PM

That's alright, Roko. I know the feeling. To be honest, the best way I can think of to really simulate the adaptability and mad science vibe of the Proidos- would be... The Kreikiri. Again. Perhaps a new set if Mythos to craft grafts as equipment, leading into the existing Symbiont Mythos, and carry a more construct-themed aesthetic to that subset.
The existing Proidos abilities are either easily added to the Kreikiri or already doable as is. Add some special options specifically for Meatsuit Symbionts, and bada Bing, multiple discipline evil genius.

Morphic tide

2018-02-01, 02:18 PM

So, Lanth Sor has started working on what is, essentially, a Mythic Ranger. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?549887) (also, they failed to link this thread) They haven't come up with the Titan/Lawbringer/whatever the class draws on as an Anthol, and has only just started on it, but I thought I'd bring the conversation here so we can talk over the groundwork without cluttering the class's thread with suggestions for the foundation of the class. Then again, it's been less than four hours since Lanth started on it...

I'll start with Mythos point gain mechanisms. The one I think would work best is the difference between cost of things used and the cost of what is gained while hunting something, as this deals with most of the potential problems with hunting-based gains (judging excessive expenditure is nigh impossible and irrevokable lack of mechanical benefit from hunting is also nigh impossible to judge, especially as hunting is something done for benefit virtually always) and allows Mythos Points to be gotten during normal adventuring as a sort of compensation for spending more than is looted. For the more typical "if you benefit from the expenditure, it doesn't give any points" variety, funding hunting preserves and hunting organizations would work out fairly well.

Another thing is to have some trap-based and/or poison-based Mythos, partly to have more options for excessively-expensive means of killing to generate Mythos points and partly to follow the fact that the dominant form of hunting for the vast majority of human history was to set the area you hunted in in your favor and squeeze out every force multiplier possible before you set out to hunt. Even from the earliest hunting practices we can identify, massive pits would be dug so that prey could be run into areas they couldn't escape. This is how people with sharpened sticks and stones could kill mammoths with high reliability.

Lanth Sor

2018-02-01, 05:55 PM

I feel I kinda cheated with my final banner. I have 2 picks that have 2 hunters from the same worlds.
https://i.imgur.com/r34DHOP.png

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-02, 02:35 PM

I don't see a problem with that.

First off, love the name. Jager is pretty much my new favorite word for hunter. Actually, I guess it's pretty much everyone's new favorite word, since Pacific Rim and Attack on Titan became things.

It still needs Track as a bonus feat- the very first Mythos assumes you have Track but doesn't require it as a prerequisite. Plus, you know, it's a Ranger. You shouldn't even need to take an Excellency to have Track, and Mythos classes already hand out bonus feats like pretzels.

Afraid I don't have anything for Mythos Point gaining methods, though. I generally just think of Mythos Points as generally 'I got rid of this much money in whatever way' and don't put much further thought into it outside of Mythos-specific methods like sundering abilities.

Lanth Sor

2018-02-02, 04:29 PM

I don't see a problem with that.

First off, love the name. Jager is pretty much my new favorite word for hunter. Actually, I guess it's pretty much everyone's new favorite word, since Pacific Rim and Attack on Titan became things.

Actually my number two had someone veto my original name Ubiytsa(russian) so i went with my number 2. Had no clue that was what Jäger meant.

It still needs Track as a bonus feat- the very first Mythos assumes you have Track but doesn't require it as a prerequisite. Plus, you know, it's a Ranger. You shouldn't even need to take an Excellency to have Track, and Mythos classes already hand out bonus feats like pretzels.

So I forgot it was a feat in 3.5 its not in PF.

Afraid I don't have anything for Mythos Point gaining methods, though. I generally just think of Mythos Points as generally 'I got rid of this much money in whatever way' and don't put much further thought into it outside of Mythos-specific methods like sundering abilities.

I'm likely goring to be reworking that section. It needs reformatting. Namely people seem to take the gaining options as the limited way to how to gain mythos points which is just incorrect. Its suppose to be a guideline providing vague examples.

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-22, 12:15 AM

So, remember what we were talking about with the Proidos, and how it might work better as just an extension of the Kreikiri? I kinda ran with that. Hope that's alright, Roko10.

Alternate Kreikiri: Proidos
With this variant, any Mythos using the Heal skill instead use a Craft (Mad Science) skill, and {Splintered} Mythos grant their bonus accordingly (also applying to checks made to craft Devices, see below). The Proidos’ abilities are based off Intelligence in place of Wisdom, wherever applicable. In addition, Limb-Shredding Graft-Taker no longer allows the creation of Magic Item functions as part of grafts on its own, but see below. A number of Mythos are otherwise altered, replaced, or removed as noted below. The Proidos refers to their Mythos as the Maker’s Mythos, rather than the Kyniteros’ Mythos. They may also gain Mythos Points by funding scientific research and so on.

Exceptional:

Madman’s Laborious Tinkered Panoply {Splintered}

Mages and Warlocks of many kinds command reality to bend to their will through complex magic rituals or eldritch bloodlines, and think themselves kings. You, however, you surpass their works through sheer dedication, passion, and understanding. Your workings are wonders, legends in the mold, and all the magic in the world pales in comparison to the feats of SCIENCE!
You may craft Magic Items as if you had the requisite feats, and a Caster Level equal to your class level. [Note: Would it be clunky or flavorful to instead base it off of your ranks in Craft minus 3?] Your understanding of Mad Science is sufficient that you need not know or supply any of the spells needed, save for Spell Completion or Spell Trigger Items such as wands or scrolls, in which case you require either a scroll of the spells needed for you to copy from or a willing spellcaster capable of using the spell; Items which require feats other than Item Creation feats, such as Metamagic Rods, require similar considerations.
While the costs of each Magic Item are calculated normally (including the XP cost you must expend), the time and labor needed is instead determined through Craft checks as a mundane item- though your works are far from mundane. The Craft DC for a magic item is equal to 15 plus the Caster Level of the item.
The items you create with this Mythos are drastically different in form than those made by regular methods; an Apparatus of the Crab or Clockwork Armor is far closer to what you create than the average mystical device. Scrolls you make do not necessarily take the form of papers that must be read, more like ranged alchemical mixtures or peculiar explosives as appropriate to the spell- magic weapons gain their powers from bizarre mechanisms and attachments only someone of your skill could really figure out. Items made with this Mythos are hereafter known as Devices, and abilities that reference them do not apply to other items made or used. Oh, also you can make Alchemical items as Devices normally.
When crafting a Device, you may choose to expend additional gold on useless ‘improvements’ (Painting it an extremely expensive shade of red, solid gold-plated rims, built-in bottle opener) that do not and cannot confer actual mechanical benefits. Gold Pieces spent in such a way confer Mythos Points as normal (And they don’t increase the market value if you sell your inventions, cheater).
Special: If you also possess the Limb-Shredding Graft-Taker mythos, you may freely craft Devices such that while they may not be used normally, they may instead be incorporated into a graft to confer their benefits to the recipient, although this adds the Device’s Caster Level to the DC of the graft. The Device must still be crafted normally before being placed into the graft, but this otherwise works as originally noted.
Special: If you also somehow possess the Heroic Panoply-Forging Puissance Bellator Mythos, then its effects are fused with those of this Mythos, essentially allowing you to arbitrarily increase the above DC in order to craft faster or use esoteric Exotic Ingredients in place of spells when needed, and allows any Mythos or Manifestations that improve Heroic Panoply-Forging Puissance to apply to the crafting of Devices as normal. [Note: Since this Mythos ignores spell prerequisites for most items, you may want to grant some small bonus if they grab the Exotic Ingredients for the spells anyway, for thematic reasons.)
Special: Certain Manifestations and later Mythos have the [Template] Descriptor. Unless otherwise noted, you may only apply a single [Template] to an item, and adding a [Template] to an item makes it a Device.

Basic Manifestations:
Scavenging Reverse-Engineering Forge: If you get your hands on another magic item, you can directly consume its materials into virtual GP and XP to use when crafting Devices, much like an Artificer; this amounts to the same amount of gold and experience that would normally be expended in crafting the item (half the market price in GP, 1/25 the price in XP), and this amount remains with you until you either consume it in crafting a device, or divest it for Mythos Points. You may also harvest this material from defeated Constructs, as if harvesting Graft Points via Limb-Shredding Graft-Taker, except granting 10 gp for every graft point you would gain. If you do have Limb-Shredding Graft-Taker, you may harvest graft points from Constructs, or gain double graft points from them if you could already harvest from them.

Kinetic Weapons are Just Better [Template]: You may make an additional change in projectile weapons that must be reloaded, or in melee bludgeoning or piercing weapons. The weapon’s damage die increases by one size, and it ignores up to two points of AC from armor or natural armor. However, ranged weapons increase the reload action by one step (Free to Move, Move to Standard, Standard to Full Round, Full Round or longer takes 1 more round), and melee weapons may only gain the effects for a single attack with a swift action to activate it, then requiring another swift action to rearm it before it can be activated again. Ranged weapons with this template are considered firearms. This template costs 25 gp to apply.

Laser, Plasma, and Beams, Oh My [Template]: You may further improve melee slashing weapons or to any ranged weapon. The weapon’s attacks resolve against the target’s touch AC (though it is not otherwise considered a touch attack), and deal untyped damage, but do not add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage and ranged weapons decrease their damage die by one step. Ranged weapons with this template do not consume ammunition, instead requiring an action to cool it off every 5 shots that takes the same action as reloading it (Free for a bow, Move for a Light Crossbow or Free with Rapid Reload, etc.). Melee weapons with this template weight ¼ as much due to the blade being essentially weightless. Ranged weapons with this template are considered firearms. This template costs 25 gp to apply to an item.

Feather-Light Armor [Template]: You may alter a suit of armor to become far more flexible and maneuverable, panels shifting automatically with the wearer’s motions to accommodate them. The Spell Failure chance of this armor decreases by 15%, and the Armor Check Penalty and Max Dexterity Bonus decrease and increase respectively by your Intelligence modifier. If the ACP would decrease below zero, the armor instead applies no reduction to movement speed, does not prevent running, and does not count its weight against the wearer’s encumbrance. This template costs 25 gp to apply.

Powering the Armor [Template]: You may create a specialized suit of armor that, while bulky, grants greater strength to the wearer. The armor weighs twice as much, doubles its ACP, and decreases its Maximum Dexterity bonus by 4 (minimum 0), but it also increases its AC bonus by half (round up), and grants the wearer and untyped +2 Strength and +10 land speed. This template costs 25 gp to apply.

Explosions are Always the Answer [Template]: You may change any projectile weapon to fire alchemical items instead of its normal ammunition. It still uses the same range and attack rolls, and deals half its normal damage in bludgeoning damage to the primary target. You may instead apply this template to an alchemical item that deals damage, in which case the damage increases to 1d6 damage per class level, and half that much as splash damage. Such an item is, obviously, perfect for use with weapons modified with this template. Either way, it costs 25 gp to apply this template.

Superior Vibrating Cutting Edge [Template]: You may add additional moving parts to a weapon that deals slashing or piercing damage, turning its blade into a gnashing mass of teeth. Its critical threat range increases by 1, which stacks with and is applied before Improved Critical to a maximum of 15-20. On the other hand, the wielder cannot use the weapon to deal nonlethal damage or intentionally hold back to deal less damage- it just keeps going. Further, it makes a lot of noise and inflicts a -10 penalty on Move Silently and Hide checks. The effects of this template can be switched off as a swift action by the wielder, negating the benefits and penalties until it is turned back on as another swift action. This template costs 25 gp.

Two Weapons for the Price of One [Template]: You may fuse two weapons together into a single Device, similar to the Shifting weapon ability, but with less scope but greater applicability. Choose two weapon forms for the Device, which need not be of the same type, size, or complexity. If one form is a two-handed weapon, the other form may be a pair of light or one-handed weapons (which need not be matching), such as a Greatsword which turns into a Longsword and Light Steel Shield, a Longbow which turns into a pair of Shortswords, or a Heavy Crossbow which turns into a hand crossbow and a dagger. Switching between forms is the equivalent of drawing a weapon, meaning a wielder with Quick Draw may do so as a free action, even between iterative attacks.

Advanced Manifestations:
Wall-Hammering Guns (Requires Kinetic Weapons are Just Better): Weapons improved with the Kinetic template ignore the first 8 points of hardness of any objects they target.

Scorching, Freezing, or Shocking? (Requires Lasers, Plasma and Beams, Oh My): Weapons improved with the Lasers template may be further augmented to deal one of Fire, Electricity, or Cold damage instead of untyped damage, as chosen during construction.

Compact Armor (Requires Feather-Light Armor): Armor improved with the Feather-Light template takes only a full round action to don or doff, and can be folded into a storage mode two sizes smaller than the intended wearer, such as a satchel or briefcase.

Walking Armory (Requires Powering the Armor): Armor improved with the Powered template also holds weapon mountings for offensive devices to be attached. You may incorporate one such weapon for every three class levels, minimum two, and attached weapons may be wielded hands-free in addition to any wielded normally.

Robotic Buddy Building (Requires Monster-Making Beast-Lord): Creating a Creature with the Construct type only costs half as many graft points. In addition, when creating a Construct Creature, you may use crafting materials equal to 10 gp per graft point to supply up to half the cost of creating the Creature. If you do so, the Creature also counts as a Device.

Know thy Weapons [Whole]
Prerequisite: Madman’s Laborious Tinkered Panoply

When wielding a Device as a weapon, you may treat your BAB as equal to your class level if it is lower.

Basic Manifestations:
Point and Shoot: You gain Point Blank Shot and Far Shot as bonus feats

Close Quarters Kerfuffle: You gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and Gauntlets you make into Devices increase their damage dice by one size.

Meat-Shearing Butcher’s Scalpel Change:
As a Proidos, you may choose a masterwork one-handed Bludgeoning weapon for this Mythos, which becomes your Wrench and is a masterwork tool for Craft (Mad Science) checks.

Fantastic Mythos:

Ingenious Supranormal Artifice [Splintered]
Prerequisite: Madman’s Laborious Tinkered Panoply, Limb-Shredding Graft-Taker

Any Device you create in the form of a Weapon or Armor gains an appropriate Enhancement bonus equal to one third of your class level.

Furthermore, rather than simply incorporating Devices into grafts, you may instead incorporate grafts into Devices. Only one graft may be attached to a given device, unless it also counts as a creature (such as a Golem or a Created Creature with the Construct type).
Most grafts simply confer their benefits to the wearer or user of the Device; a cape with a Flesh feature would defend the wearer with its heat-treated tri-mithril alloy weaving, a belt with two Limbs would make the wearer quadrupedal, a pair of bracers with Eye features would have a sensor grid with active display, and a wand with the Spike feature would double as a stabbing implement (well, a more effective one than normally, anyway). In some cases, when this wouldn’t quite make sense, the Device itself might gain the benefit, such as a sword with an Iron Flesh feature that’s more resilient than normal. In addition, Armors made into Devices may be given Flesh augments without adding Flesh feature into the graft, since they already do that job, and Weapon Devices may have augments (or Mutations, if applicable) applied as if they were similar natural weapons; a mace could be augmented as if it were a violent fin, for example, or a spear could be treated as a Bite attack, or a sword as a Claw. Also, if a Device has a graft which grants a natural armor bonus to AC, you may construct it to grant that bonus as an Armor or Shield bonus instead, assuming it is of sufficient size and shape to do so (be it actual Armor or Shields, or cloaks or clothing of some sort).

Basic Manifestations:
Bizarre and Improbable Gunnery: You may apply two [Templates] to a Device at once, applying the benefits and drawbacks of both of them. For example, a Kinetic Laser Heavy Crossbow would deal the same damage die as normal, but typeless damage, ignore two points of AC, and require a Full Round Action to cool off every five shots; A Laser Explosive longbow would fire alchemical items, but also deal typeless damage to the main target equal to half a d6. If you apply the Two Weapons for the Price of One template, and the other template can only be applied to one of the forms, you may add another template to only the other form (for example, a Warhammer/Crossbow with Explosions Are Always the Answer may apply Close-Range Ordinance Delivery to the Warhammer form).

Infinite Dakka Sufficiency Gap [Template]: You may enhance a projectile weapon to fire much, much faster. Its damage die decreases by one, but it deals that damage twice on a successful attack roll (including modifiers). It consumes ammunition at twice that rate, however it becomes able to store twice your class level in ammunition in a magazine before needing to reload, which takes a move action unless the weapon would normally take longer (this may be reduced by the Rapid Reload feat). This template requires 50 gp in materials to apply.

Close-Range Ordinance Delivery [Template]: You have your own way of giving melee weapons an extra Punch. Similar to the Kinetic template, this is not always active: it takes a free action to activate before making an attack- if it hits, it deals double damage as an explosive charge detonates. The weapon may store five charges at a time; one charge may be reloaded as a move action, or a new magazine as a Full Round action (this may be reduced by Rapid Reload). This template costs 50 gp, and the explosive charges cost 1 gp per 5-round magazine.

Any ideas for things I missed or can improve? I kept a lot of stuff close to the original, just drastically compressed it along the lines of some of the higher-tier Kreikiri Mythos. I'll go over the Excellencies later, what few there are can be ported over pretty easily.

Theseventh

2018-02-23, 03:05 PM

Looks awesome Gideon! I'm so glad it was taken down this route, it really does work quite well with the Krikiri. Mechanically at least. From a fluff perspective would take some real stretching but honestly mechanics come first. Beautiful fluff with poor mechanics is just disappointing. I can't wait to see more, and if you have ideas on some higher tier stuff and want some help hammering out the details I would be happy to help. Always love to see my favorite class get some new toys.

Morphic tide

2018-02-23, 04:19 PM

Personally, if we have to make Anthol classes (that's the term settled on, right?) have subclasses to represent more ideas, I think we should probably make the base classes more distinct in their baseline to save Excellencies from baseline competence (and as such fix the floor) and have more ability for side competencies to take effect by broadening what the archetype they represent is. We should only need one Anthol class on a build for a decent interpretation of Batman, he's just too iconic. I'd go with Bellator as the go-to, as it's the "any means necessary warrior" as a developing myth, which would necessitate having utility items, crafting included, and unarmed combat options. Also investigation, but there's no reason that can't actually be included as skill-based "hit the weak point for massive damage" combat's utility side (overlap with a potential Mythic Assassin/Rogue is problematic, but grand tales of assassination are few and far between, even today. Seeing as how the ideal of assassins is to not be known for anything other than deeds being done, with who and how being unknowns, they don't really fit Mythos in the first place).

The former works perfectly fine with the thematics as-is, particularly given that some of the more popular modern heroes (which we should focus on for the Bellator, being that it's the warrior-hero myth that has yet to be finished. An archetype that hasn't fully formed) are self-made, creating their own means of heroics as tools, then mastering the use of the tools they made. Iron Man could be constructed as a Bellator perfectly fine, given this interpretation of the Bellator ("The Iron Mythos" also just begs for Iron Man expies).

We should probably work out character archetypes that fit with what Mythos is, match each existing Anthol class to one archetype, then see how the Anthol classes need adjusted to fit the archetype fully. Then work out how to construct an Anthol class for each archetype that doesn't fit. The mad genius isn't a new thing at all, tales of such things go back to crazed alchemists and insane magi seeking immortality, everlasting youth, the secret to making life or simply the destruction of great cities. What is new is the archetype doing it through strange application of the mundane, taking common knowledge and abusing it, rather than uncovering arcane secrets and wonders beyond what mortal men should ever see. The mad scientist is the same archetype as the crazed alchemist, but through a lens of man having tools with which to change the world, if only one were to assemble them, rather than by uncovering strange secrets outside the realms of man.

Subclassing separate Mythos onto a base class should be like that. The same idea, but through a very different lense that doesn't fit with the original idea. The mad genius's default Anthol form should be the Mythic Mage or Alchemist, then the Mad Scientist would be a subclass for a strange new version of the old archetype. The Titan shifts to adopt the odd new thing in it's domain, . The Bellator, then, would be truly bizarre for being a new Titan, a Myth without precedent, an Archetype without predecessor or kin. The idea of the warrior-hero that made his own tools of greatness through only his own work is a very new thing, as mastery was often segmented. Our modern idea of the sword-mage is something not part of any serious mythologies, at least not commonly, as the Mage and the Warrior were considered utterly different, even incompatible, archetypes. The Eastern Ki-warriors are punch-wizards, people who's magic is inherently mated to their physique and as such their strength innately grows with their mystical power because the two are one and the same, which is different from mastering two different arts to use them in unison beyond what either could do alone.

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-23, 08:02 PM

That's what I did... the Kreikiri is about mad biologists creating fleshy monstrosities, I added a new lens of the mad mechanic, creating monstrosities of metal instead of meat.

As for higher tier ideas, I don't really have much. Combining devices, grafts, and creatures, you can already accomplish pretty much anything you could think of for the mad scientist, and any ideas I could have for a more powerful powered armor are beautifully accomplished through the Singularity of Life Mythos and the Steel Emperor Forge Master Epic Prestige class- hence the note making the first Mythos synergize with the abilities of said other class, which only requires three feats and a few Mythos/Excellency slots to qualify for without even touching the actual Bellator class.

What I do have a few ideas for is an epic class for the Epifovian- a bit neglected, being somewhat niche, but I realized that it works perfectly for an update of Magikeeper's Epic Ozodrin prestige progression (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207685-3-5-Epic-Ozodrin-Prestige-Class-The-Cosmic-Horror), which he never got to bringing up to par with his updated version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?390719-Fang-and-Pseudopod-Ozodrin-3-5-update) of the base class. The main class features of the original PrC can easily be ported into new Exalted and Sempiternal Mythoi, and the Epifovian was already specifically meant to evoke the same ideas as the Ozodrin. I just need to figure out exactly what I should have as the actual in-built class features before taking Mythos, but other than that there's just room for plenty of ideas for epic extensions of the Epifovian concepts, and a need for the Immemorial capstone Mythos.

Morphic tide

2018-02-23, 10:08 PM

That's what I did... the Kreikiri is about mad biologists creating fleshy monstrosities, I added a new lens of the mad mechanic, creating monstrosities of metal instead of meat.
...I think there's a bit of a disconnect in that everyone's been thinking in terms of a character concept rather than a character archetype, which is what Titan-based Mythos is supposed to be to my understanding. The Taramacht is not, strictly speaking, a particular kind of Berzerker. The Taramacht is every rage-fueled warrior, every combatant driven by fury, every person who's motive is hate. The Monster is rage, is hate, is destruction, not merely an incarnation of such. That's what the Titans of Narrative are, they're archetypes and ideas personified, not particular characters. They're actually, in part, made of every character centered on their Idea or Archetype...

As an aside, The Sun in the Mythos Multiverse is formed from two Lawgivers (basically illegal immigrants from The Far Lands) breaking what they were. The Fool, a being of infinite potential never to realize it because it's nature is to have infinite unrealized potential, and The Shadow, literally opposition made manifest. The Sun is defined as everything they are not. Omnipotence without any possible challenge was the Sun's peak. This resulted in becoming a literal black hole sue, mind you, so he split himself into eight pieces...

The point is that the main Mythos timeline has the Shadow come back when The Sun compromised on his purity and obedience. When he compromised on his power, the Fool may have returned. As The Fool is limitless potential, unable to be met, and Anthos can have vital characteristics separate from their Lawgiver/Titan, an Anthol class for The Fool could be a metagish, being behind others in everything, but having so many more things to do the others are, mostly, left in the dust overall. The potential is never truly met, but it's worked on. Basically the Mythic Factotum, decent capacity for everything. Possibly with a side of the Chameleon PRC for swapping partial competence from day to day.

I also can't get over the idea of making Mythos Points on something be losses from something that has actual benefit, like a Mythic Craftsman gaining points based on using excessively expensive materials or selling at a loss, then gaining points based on how much more the materials costed than the item's actual value.

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-23, 11:26 PM

Morphic tide

2018-02-24, 05:31 AM

In your previous post, you described that a variant class should be the same archetype, but through a different lens. The Proidos and Kreikiri fit that description, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Maybe I'm just not getting the analogies. The archetype of a mad genius is what the Proidos is going for, but mechanically and flavorfully that archetype was already occupied by something focused on a different aspect, so I incorporated it to focus on a different aspect, which seems to be what you're saying I should be doing.
I'm actually fine with somewhat narrow ideas, but the thing is that they're rather specific ones. Which is good for grounding mechanics, but a bit bad for the character variety. If you can only staple on abnormal limbs and make fleshy monsters from scratch, then it's pretty narrow and the concept probably isn't broad enough for the entities Anthols draw power from.

But this is more about issues I have with the basis of the system itself and the way it was picked up than problems I have with what's been made. The Mythos classes are decently well made, though I hate the design philosophy behind them as it's the epitome of list classes. Most don't list even their few actual features under separate names! It's seriously so bad that actual advice from Xefas on how to make a Mythos class apparently includes shifting number fixes to make the class function into Excellencies, a list that can be misused and result in a nonfunctional character. Mythos abilities can't actually afford to be off the wall utilities and niche stuff, because the class has nothing but them, resulting in options being oversaturated with combat mechanics.

In terms of the Mythos point gain, I can remove that clause if everyone agrees it's bad, but I felt it was keeping with the theme- it has to be an expenditure that has no mechanical benefit. I thought it would be fun to have some incentive for ridiculous doohickeys built into your devices, like a built-in wafflemaker on your death tank.

It's more that requiring no benefit, even if it's only mechanical benefit that's excluded, causes a bundle of problems, as determining a lack of benefit is very difficult. To use your same example, I'd not have the wafflemaker alone provide Mythos points. Now, if it involves an anti-gravity device to hold the batter in place while precision telekinesis shapes it into a waffle iron and a heat ray on ultra-low settings is used for actually cooking, and you have vastly, unbelievably cheaper ways of doing it like a conventional skillet and waffle iron, you get a pile of Mythos Points. The difference in cost between how it's actually done and how cheaply it can be done, or between gains and cost, is then used as the scaling factor.

Really, the problem I have is just that it's too prone to arguments and bothersome DMs getting in the way of it, thereby pinning the classes to extremely narrow ability access due to a low number of available options. If you have a built-in wafflemaker, and means of using it for more general food preperation, then the DM can claim you gain mechanical benefit for having vital food preparation being in your very hard to get into death tank. It's a silly argument, but there's good reason for it. It's easy to prove there's cheaper ways of doing it, and hard to prove you don't benefit from it.

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-24, 09:12 AM

Okay, so it's not a problem you have with the Proidos, it's a problem you have with the Kreikiri. That makes more sense. In that case, the Proidos is probably an important addition because it does generalize the idea- the flavor for all of the Mythos describe it endlessly as being meat and flesh and meat and more meat, whereas mechanically there's only a bit of tweaking for it to be describable as machinery- said tweaking being what I'm trying to get at with the Proidos expansion. Even the higher tier Mythos can be rehashed- Necrotic Meat Mutation? Nanite plague. Living World Shintai? Meet GLaDOS. Flesh fortress becomes an energy grid with Protoss-style Pylons and material-fabrication mechanisms.

I don't really know how to address the 'List Classes' problem. That's starting to go a bit over my head.

You make a good point about the excess expenditure. Is there a better way of expressing it that still gets at the concept I was going for? If not, I can just scrap the idea and put in some fluff lines or something. Maybe an excellency that gives a discount for cheap magic items with completely irrelevant uses- something that could, hypothetically, squeeze out some extra optimization, but generally just makes it easier to do random mad scientist crap for no reason.

roko10

2018-02-25, 06:15 AM

Dammit, guys, stop adopting my ideas and doing them better than I could. It makes me feel inadequate. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, that's a pretty good take on the Proidos you have there, Gideon. I don't have anything much to say or contribute except to keep up the good work, considering I'm kind of busy and my interest in the Mythos system has kind of waned.

Gideon Falcon

2018-02-27, 04:42 AM

Thank you. I'm sorry I couldn't come up with much more to fill.the gaps, and I definitely wish I had ideas for Legendary/Exaltedythos, but I do think it provides a better magic item effect for the graft system, which originally had a bit of an exploit- making a graft as a full round action as an upgrade is fine, but making the magic item components to them in a full round action obsoletizes every fast-crafting ability in existence.

VoodooPaladin

2018-02-27, 11:40 PM

The Taramacht is not, strictly speaking, a particular kind of Berzerker. The Taramacht is every rage-fueled warrior, every combatant driven by fury, every person who's motive is hate.

I've found it helpful to present Mythos classes as being about the pure expression of a power source, not any particular skillset.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-10, 03:28 PM

So, back to that Cosmic Horror adaptation I mentioned a few posts back, does anyone have a good idea for some basic class features to give it? Most of the original Cosmic Horror PrC features work better as Mythos, and the other Epic Mythos PrCs had more than just the initial scaling feature- so far I just have the bare bones dual-progression structure, removing the redundancy of Unearthly Power from Ozodrin and the enhancement bonus from Epifovian. I gave it some bonus feats, too, because Ozodrins love Aberrant feats. Does anyone have ideas for suitably Eldritch Abomination-y features to slap on the chassis? Or am I wrong about separating the original version's features?

I'm also at a loss for a suitable Immemorial Mythos capstone, if anyone has any ideas for that.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-18, 12:57 AM

Apologies for the double-post, but it looks like things aren't going very fast around here and I've ended up figuring some stuff out.

As it stands, I think I've got the class pretty well made out except for the Immemorial Mythos, but I still would like second opinions on the balance. The fluff still has a lot of room to add more, and I don't like the current name for it, so any input there would be greatly appreciated. I may need to take another post to fit it all in.

Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror
Note: This update uses elements from both Magikeeper’s mostly complete Ozodrin update, his original PrC, and Xefas’ Mythos (how appropriate) subsystem.

“I have seen the dark universe yawning where the black planets roll without aim, where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge, or lustre, or name.”

The Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror
Prerequisites:
Knowledge (The Planes) 24 Ranks, Intimidate 24 Ranks
Feats: Unnatural Legacy, any three other Aberrant feats
Class Features: Manifest Form, Far-Spawn Taint
Mythos: Eldritch Abomination Wakening Rite

Class Skills:
The Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror’s class skills are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int mod

Hit Die: d8
(No table, it's redundant- Mythos at every even level and 7th, Sempiternal Mythos unlocked at 7th, half-progression BaB, and what you see below)

Class Features: The following are the class features of the Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror

Horror (Ex): Beginning at first level, the Incarnation becomes the next step further removed from mortal understanding. Their creature type is considered the more beneficial of Aberration or Outsider for any purpose, such as coming back from the dead. Aberrations, mad creatures, and creatures tied to the Far Realms begin one category closer to Helpful as they recognize your kinship to them.
In addition, your levels in Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror continue to progress you Manifest Form, Features, Strange Movement, Primary Stomach, Unearthly Power, Aberrant Affinity, and Menacing Demeanor class features, and you gain 10 additional form points each level.

Eldritch Legend (Ex): The Incarnation is a being of Myth, but a myth spoken only in hushed whispers or deranged chants, for fear of the toll that knowledge may take upon their minds. This duality of fame and anonymity lends itself well to their own understanding of their entire natures. The Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror counts Ozodrin levels as levels in a Mythos class, and Epifovian levels count towards their total Ozodrin levels for the purpose of existing class features. In addition, at 1st level, they may choose to either change all Ozodrin class features to become based on Wisdom instead of Charisma (including Form points and the maximum number of natural attacks), or change all Epifovian class features and Mythos to be based on Charisma in place of Wisdom (including Unreal Existence and Far-Spawn Taint).

Far-Spawn Taint (Ex): The enhancement bonus to natural attacks from Far-Spawn Taint is subsumed by the bonus provided by Unearthly Power, except the bonuses provided by a delayed fear effect increase the enhancement bonus by the same amount. Furthermore, at 1st, 4th, and 8th level, the bonus for each category doubles mathematically (to a total of octuple at 8th level), and the bonus can no longer be disrupted by a stronger fear effect, instead renewing the duration and using the new level of fear.

The Horror’s Mythos: With the Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror class, an Epifovian continues to gain new Mythos, which follow the same rules as The Nightmare’s Mythos, but these are unique to this class, and express the Horror’s Mythos’ own legends, rather than those of the common Epifovian. New Mythos Known gained from this class may be drawn from the Epifovian's pool of available Mythos, or from the new Mythos listed below. A Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror adds his class levels to his Epifovian levels to determine his Mythos "class level" for the purposes of Mythos whose effects are dependent on class level.

Some Mythos are listed as "Sempiternal", which is the fifth tier of Mythos, above Exalted, and the Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror gains the ability to begin learning them at 7th level. The cost of learning a new Sempiternal Mythos, above the ones automatically granted by level, is 200,000 Mythos Points and 20,000xp.

Infinitely Variable Dinosaur: (Cookie if you get the reference) At 3rd level, your Manifest Form ability vastly improves. Instead of merely a single ‘true’ form beneath your worldly (or otherworldly) guise, you have a number of true forms equal to one fourth of your Mythos class level, and may transition between any of them through the normal action of Manifest Form (shifting to a ‘true’ form if you were already in one does not inflict the same fear effect as shifting from your Worldly Guise. That would be silly). With a standard action, you may add or remove a number of features equal to your Charisma modifier (as under the Rapid Form ability), and make the same amount of alteration to any or all of your inactive forms as well. You may change half as many features as a move action, or one fourth as many as a swift action. If you have Shifting Shape, you may change the location of one feature per four levels as a swift action, or twice as many as a move action, when using it for only that purpose.

Bonus Feats: At 4th level and again at 8th level, the Cosmic Horror may select any nonepic Aberrant Feat they qualify for as a bonus feat, or the Cosmic Horror may choose from the following: Effortless Flow, Harmonic Mass, Epic Farspawn, Hole in Time, Shunned Name, Unspeakable Name, Anathema, Unorthodox Union, Untouchable Abomination, Whispers of the Outer Spheres, Great Charisma, Great Strength, Great Dexterity, Great Constitution, Damage Reduction, Fast Healing, Extra Item Space, Epic Prowess.

Infinite Depths of Terror (Ex): Some foolish creatures may think there is a point where they cannot be frightened further. Such a silly idea. Beginning at 5th level, when you affect a creature with a fear effect that is already Panicked, the effect is not wasted (assuming the effect stacks)- no, you may inflict still further levels of fear in them. Such creatures gain a number of degrees of Terror, which work similarly to the normal degrees of fear effect- inducing the Shaken condition in a Panicked creature leaves them with one degree of Terror, while inflicting the Panicked condition on a creature that is Frightened leaves them Panicked with two degrees of Terror.
Each degree of Terror a creature possesses increases the penalties given by the Shaken condition by -2, and counts as normal for any effect which increases depending on the degree of a fear effect. Further, each round a creature with Terror must make a Will Save (DC 10+ their degree of Terror) or Cower for that round, losing their action as they are paralyzed with sheer dread. If a creature has at least ten degrees of Terror, they must make a second Will Save each round at the same DC (regardless of the success or failure of the first) or be rendered Confused for that round and take a single point of Wisdom damage for every ten degrees of Terror (although the Confused condition may be made irrelevant if they are also Cowering). A creature reduced to three or lower Wisdom through this method is rendered Insane until their Wisdom is raised to at least 3. These Will Saves are still considered to be against a fear effect, so relevant bonuses may apply.
Unfortunately, you may not use this ability on yourself. The bonuses from Far-Spawn Taint only apply up to Panicked, as you are continually inuring yourself to every new threshold you discover.

Endless (Ex): The Horror may end its existence in reality prime to become an imaginary denizen of any dreamscape it has ever created. (If they do not have that feature, then a new, rudimentary one is created without any augments). This ability does not take an action, can never be lost, and can be used even if the Horror is unable to use actions or even think (for example, if the Horror is dead or has had its soul erased by a deity). A Horror that uses this ability can no longer interact with reality prime, although it has absolute power within its dreamscape. A wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast upon any object in reality prime that would have counted as the Horror via its sinister image ability restores all of Horror’s reality prime abilities and status as a creature from its original reality- similar to the less potent Fateless ability of the Ozodrin. Such a Horror may ignore any level loss, death, soul destruction, etc that may have occurred up to 10 minutes before it used this ability. A creature in reality prime can also revive the Horror by performing any sufficiently powerful ritual as determined by the DM. After using this ability the Horror may not re-enter reality prime for one day*, even if it is restored before that.
*In reality prime time.

Exalted Mythos:

Fractal Manifold Fearful Symmetry:
Requirements: At least six tentacles granted by Mythos or Excellencies

All tentacles you possess or shape have all the traits of any tentacles granted to you by Mythos. If you have Lineage-Celebrating Flesh Companion, you have as many familiars as you have tentacles. If you have the Element Bathed External Layer manifestation of Far-Realm descended Bodily Adaptation, all your tentacles have the granted weapon enchantments. Any tentacles you gain with Unnatural-Selection External Hypothesis are at full size (though it is not a valid choice for further iterations to emulate). If you have Inescapable Nightmare Tether, all your tentacles gain the increased reach and may tether opponents. This Mythos does not apply traits granted to a tentacle through Form Points and Augments.

Anathemic Mastery of Space:
Requirements: Strange Movement

Space and Time as known by mortals is a curious delusion to you. How can they think distance is so great when even their own simple magic can step between planes as easily as between rooms? For that matter, why are they surprised when you use the same connections they just barely tapped to follow them? Everything is close at hand for you.
The first aspect of this Mythos is that you can see through all manner of spatial connections. You can see into any coterminous planes, such as the Shadow and Ethereal from the Prime Material, or into pocket dimensions or demiplanes such as Rope Tricks or Magnificent Mansions. You may also see the destination of any teleportation effect made from within line of sight, or the origin of any effect made into line of sight. In the latter case, the connection only lasts one round, but counts as both Line-of-Sight and Line-of-Effect for that duration.
The second aspect of this Mythos means that your daily allotment of Strange Movement distance is instead measured per encounter- thus, an Ozodrin 8/Epifovian 12/Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror 4 with two instances of the Strange Mover feat could move up to 120’ per encounter. Further, you may expend 20’ of Strange Movement as a move action to move anywhere within line of sight, such as to the other end of a teleport effect, otherwise acting the same as normal Strange Movement. Once per minute, you may use 40’ of Strange Movement to do so as a Swift or Immediate action.
Special: If you have the Shadow-Striding Rift Walk manifestation of the Bellowing Nocturnal Horror Manifest Mythos, you may apply its benefits to Strange Movement as well as Shadow Dancing.

Great Cult of the Old Ones:
Requirements: Peasant-Subjugating Terror King

Your Leadership score from Peasant-Subjugating Terror King may continue to improve as if by the Epic Leadership feat. Further, your followers worship you as a deity, and are considered Fanatical towards you at all times.
If you have the Eclectic Mageocracy Establishment manifestation, your followers may be trained in Cleric instead of other spellcasting classes regardless of their highest mental ability score. Your Follower also gains spellcasting as a cleric of one third of their level (which does not stack with any cleric levels they may already have.) They draw their spells from you, and you grant the domains of Madness, your alignment (or equivalent), any elemental subtypes you possess, and Trickery.
If you have the Populace-Mutating Master’s Trace manifestation, within the portion of followers that gain Aberration Blood and two other Aberrant feats, the higher level half of them gain yet another Aberrant Feat and the Pseudonatural template from Complete Arcana. Half of those followers, by their level, gain a fourth Aberrant Feat and the Half-Farspawn template without level adjustment. If you have at least 30 HD, then the highest level follower (that originally gained the Half-Farspawn template) instead gains the Epic Pseudonatural template from the Epic Level Handbook. If you have a cohort, it gains the Half-Farspawn template, Aberrant Blood, and four other bonus Aberrant feats just as your innermost circle of followers.

Flowing Division of Form Dispersal
Requirements: One’s Form in Miniature, Incontemporary Roiling Flesh-Spawn Creation

Once per encounter, as a full round action, you may separate yourself into two identical copies for a number of rounds equal to your class level. Your equipment is divided amongst the copies, and activated abilities share their uses between the two. Your hit points are evenly divided between the copies, but they share a single pool for any other point resources such as power points or Form Points. Soulmelds or similar effects are distributed like equipment. If you are struck by an attack that deals slashing damage, you may instead use this ability as an immediate action to negate all the slashing damage you would have taken (though not any other forms of damage attached to it, such as from a Fiery Blast weapon)

Advanced Manifestation:
It Spreads Its Seeds By Combat (Requires Spawn feature): Instead of using the duplication ability in response to slashing damage, you may immediately form a Spawn feature if you have any available form points to put into it. You may transfer features onto this spawn instead of having to shape them, as the spawn is formed from the severed portion of your body- though the normal restrictions for features on spawn apply. The Spawn immediately separates, and if it can act on its own, it rolls its own initiative- if its initiative would be higher than the current turn, it takes its action immediately and then acts on its normal initiative the next round. Creating a Spawn in this way still negates the slashing damage, though the nature of the Spawn feature means you will likely still take damage.

Nictophobic Atmospheric Attunement:
Requirements: Bellowing Nocturnal-Horror Manifest

It is shocking, how simple and yet how prevalent is the fear of the dark. You are all too eager to prove to your prey that no mortal ever truly outgrows that fear, no matter how powerful they think they are.
You radiate an aura out to 10’ per Charisma modifier. Within this aura, all lighting is reduced by one degree- Natural sunlight becomes simply bright light, bright light becomes dim light, dim light becomes darkness, and darkness becomes magical darkness. Even supernaturally bright lights are assailed- any effect which deals damage based on light only deals half as much, and any blinding effect from bright light reduces its save DC by your Charisma modifier. Within your own space, light is lessened by yet another degree, though this has no additional effect on offensive light effects.
As a standard action, you may dispel any and all supernatural light sources within 100’, as if by a Greater Dispel Magic effect but with no caster level limit and using your Mythos class level. This also extinguishes any nonmagical sources of light within the area, be it bonfires or sunrods, instantly.
If you have the ‘Waiting in a Moonless Night’ manifestation, you may manifest up to four areas of magical darkness at a time, and each area doubles in size.
You see perfectly in darkness of any level without penalty, to the same distances you could see in broad daylight. You add half you Mythos class level as a bonus on Spot checks within the radius of any Darkvision you had, however.

Basic Manifestation:
Daylight Horror Paradox Infliction: You may suppress the aura provided by this mythos as a free action, however you, yourself, may still act as if light was decreased as normal for the purposes of abilities which require you to be standing in shadow- Though it may be bright as noon-day, your presence carries a metaphysical darkness that stains the world, and your prey almost yearns for the darkness to return to hide your terrible visage from their eyes.

Expansive All-Encompassing Psyche:
Requirements: Dissociative Multi-Mentality Aegis

Your mind is a vast, incomprehensible complex of personalities, memories, images, and things that, if mortal minds can even grasp them, they would puzzle at how it could be inside one’s brain. The roiling landscape of minds grants you an extra standard or move action each round as other facets of you jerk your limbs in ways you hadn’t had time to think of. While fusing your personalities, you instead gain an additional full compliment of actions (Standard and move or Full-Round, swift or immediate) each round.
Furthermore, you can pseudo-physically manifest this mindscape as a feature, as described below:

Dreamscape: Cost - 20
Appearance: Creatures can literally enter your imagination.
Benefits: For the purpose of this feature, whatever reality/cosmetology your campaign has will be referred to as “reality prime”.
Any victim you successfully devour “wakes up” in a reality of your own creation. This reality can in no way, shape, or form alter reality prime. Anything that enters your reality, is altered, and then leaves has their original state restored as though it were just a dream. You can otherwise do whatever you desire within your imaginary reality with the only restriction being what you know and the rate at which you perceive time. For example, a deity killing sword that works in your imagination is unlikely to work when you find a blacksmith to re-create that sword in reality prime. Basically, this is similar to being a DM within someone else’s D&D game. A soul within your reality cannot be released by anything short of the direct interference of a deity in reality prime. You may, however, return any such soul to reality prime as a free action. You cannot control how time works in your dreamscape nor can your true body enter your dreamscape.
Special: Removing this feature does not destroy the dreamscape if any entities from reality prime exist within it. However, you have no power over the created dreamscape until you reform this feature for that dreamscape. A soul trapped within such a dreamscape can be freed by a wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast from reality prime. You can have more than one dreamscape at a time. All dreamscape augments may be added or removed to pre-existing dreamscapes of your creation.

Augments: The noted level requirements refer to your level in Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror.

Nightmare Gateway: Additional cost 2
Required Feature(Stomach): You can create a fleshy door to your dreamscape along the walls of your stomach. From the outside the door appears to lead to nothingness, although anyone who enters is appears wherever you want in your dreamscape. The door is 5ft by 5ft, although multiple doors can be combined together to form one larger door. A creature cannot simply fall through the door – it must pass into the unknown of its own accord or be dragged/pushed through. This gateway is one-way, and does not even exist within your dreamscape. You may return any creature or object that enters your dreamscape this way to reality prime as a free action, and they appear in front of the Nightmare Gateway exactly the same as they were when first entering your dreamscape. Plane Shift and other transportation effects do not help a creature escape from your dreamscape.

Mind Breaking Dream: Additional cost 5
Any soul that leaves your dreamscape does so with mental scars from their stay. For every day a soul spent in your dreamscape you may give it any mental affliction as though by bestow curse. For example, you could give it a 50% chance of failing to perform any action (a mental effect) but you could not make its skin purple (a physical effect). Unlike other reality prime abilities, Mind Breaking Dream is based off the time rate of the dreamscape. In reality prime the affliction is an extraordinary effect that ignores immunities, and the mental afflictions can only be cured by wish, miracle, psychic chirurgery, or a similar effect.

Engulfing Cosmos: Additional cost 15
Required level 4: Any creature that dies inside your stomach or within 5ft of you may have their soul pulled into your dreamscape should you so desire it. This includes parts of ‘you’ defined by sinister image. A creature killed by one of your natural weapons is considered to have been within 5ft of “you”.
Special: You may apply this augment multiple times to the same dreamscape, increasing the range by 5ft each time after the first. Each instance of this augment after the first only costs 5 form points instead of 15.

Soul String: Additional cost 3
Required level 5 and Engulfing Cosmos: Any creature who escapes a dreamscape with this augment can be pulled into any dreamscape with this augment you posses, even if the original dreamscape is no longer under your control. The creature must be within range of your engulfing cosmos augment to be pulled into a dreamscape, and they may make a will save to resist the effect (DC 10 + ½ your level in classes that grant features + your charisma modifier). Using this augment is a swift action. Creatures created via the entity feature automatically fail their saves.
special: Applying this augment to a pre-existing dreamscape has no effect on creatures that escaped the dreamscape before this feature was applied (The effect is not retroactive). Removing this augment does not retroactively free creatures effected by it.

Mind Shattering Dream: Additional cost 5
Required level 6 and Mind Breaking Dream: This augment works like Mind Breaking Dream, except that for every week the soul spent in the dreamscape you may effect it as though by Greater Bestow Curse. This is in addition to the effect of Mind Breaking Dream.

Temporal Fantasy: Additional cost 1
Required level 7: You have complete control over the time of your dreamscape, allowing it to move as fast or slow as you desire. Abilities/effects from reality prime continue to work based off of reality prime’s time rate. For example, fast healing 5 from reality prime will heal 5 damage per reality prime round, even if that is the equivalent of 700 years in your dreamscape, and casting a spell would typically involve a reality prime standard action. Most cosmic horrors grant “visitors” imaginary versions of their reality prime abilities.

Exit: Additional cost 4
Required level 8: You may pull yourself into the dreamscape as a full round action. You may still interact with the world outside via Sinister/Encroaching Image if you have it, although you are affected by reality prime rules while doing so. For example, even if you grant yourself infinite form points within your reality you must still obey your reality prime limits while interacting with reality prime. If someone hits you with a finger of death in reality prime, no imaginary powers will save you (although an item/effect hailing from reality prime could). This is considered an extraordinary ability. Many Horrors of this caliber abandon reality prime altogether, choosing to act as overdeities in realms of their own creation. As long as the Horror is not interacting with reality prime in any way nothing currently in reality prime can interact with the Horror (for example, not even a deity could pull such a Horror from its dreamscape).

Mind-Etched Impending Image Encroachment:
Requirements: Sinister Image

Those who bear witness to your terror will not soon forget the experience; as they will inevitably realize, they are not soon safe, either- For even the image of a fresh memory is a part of your face that watches them everywhere.
Any creature that has seen you within 1 hour per Mythos class level counts for your Sinister Image ability as if they were scrying your location. Any creature suffering from a Confusion or Insanity effect you inflicted similarly counts as long as their condition remains untreated.

Intramomentary Termination Encompassment:
Requires: Unstoppable Grave-Crowding March, All Encompassing Torment Jurisdiction, Non-Euclidean Embracing Dimensions

The flowing substance of your many claws and teeth are a constant danger, almost a hurricane of bone and keratin, shredding apart anything so foolish as to approach- or so unfortunate as to be approached.
You gain Improved Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. When making attacks of opportunity allowed by the Unstoppable Grave-Crowding March mythos, you may do so up to three times with each natural weapon you possess in a round.
Your reach is calculated as if you were of the highest size you could count as via Non-Euclidean Embracing Dimensions- Including that it starts as if your space were appropriate to that size. You may also take the Further Skewed Existence Extrapolation manifestation two additional times.
No matter what space you actually take up, which may easily be essentially none, you may still count your space as being that of the largest size you count as- for example, for gaining an Attack of Opportunity against creatures entering your space, or moving around in your space. You need not be at the center of this space, you determine where the space lies at the end of any movement or as the equivalent of a 5-ft step, so long as it still contains your entire actual space. Further, each round, any creature that enters your ‘space’ at least once during their turn or that begins its turn in your ‘space’ takes 15d6 damage, plus the bonus from Unearthly Power, plus 1.5 times your Strength modifier, plus any bonuses you have to damage rolls with natural weapons. This damage is Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing damage, and counts as Magic, Epic, and your alignment for the purpose of damage reduction- and further, half of the damage pierces through any form of Regeneration. You may freely choose to spare certain creatures from this damage while they share your ‘space.’ You may make an immediate Grapple attempt against any creature damaged in this way, without having to roll a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity.
Any creature killed by the above ability counts as being fully Devoured, and allows for an immediate Demoralize attempt at any creatures with line of sight to the grisly spectacle.
Special: Indescribable Living Dead-World Dread Tyrant does not increase your space for this ability, nor can you center your space on things in your Flesh Domain that might otherwise count as ‘you.’ This effect is still tied to your actual position, so you’ll have to use your other space-bending powers to pervert the natural order any more. Sorry not sorry.

Rider of Insanity:
Prerequisites: The Noblest Steed is Bound by Flesh

You may form features on your Special Mount as if it was you- such features benefit your mount in the same way they would have aided you (possibly allowing it to use Devour, Swallow Whole and Jaws that Bite, for example, if given a mouth and a stomach), and the Mount uses any abilities granted on its own initiative and actions. It may even be given Puppets and Spawn in this way, deducting from the Mount’s hit points in the latter case, and controlling them as it wishes.
You may communicate telepathically with your mount from any distance, and perceive through its senses, and vice versa. It counts as you or an image of you for the purpose of Sinister and/or Encroaching image (so a portrait of your steed is no less dangerous if it does not depict its rider). It transforms with you when you use Manifest Form (thus revealing any features placed on it in the form chosen), also allowing you to hide any unusual features it has when in your worldly guise (such as the granted tentacle attacks or any Aberrant Feats it has taken) in the same way you can.
Lastly, your Special Mount gains the Pseudonatural template as described in the ELH. The Alternate Form described by the template is instead the form it takes when you are in your true form via Manifest Form, taking on its normal appearance in your Worldly Guise as mentioned before.
If you have Pregenerate Husk Bestowment, your Animal Companion gains the same benefits as your Mount, and additionally may be augmented as if it itself were a Puppet feature (but not the Puppet Show augment).
If you have Lineage-Celebrating Flesh Companion, you may augment your familiar as if you had the Conservative Form feat. It’s already literally part of your body, you don’t get anything else. Tough.

Sempiternal Mythos:

Seamless Mastery of Time:
Requirements: Anathemic Mastery of Space

Time, like Space, flows like a river around you, and you see the eternities within each moment, the time inbetween instants, and every disturbance is as obvious to you as the most prolonged events. You can see any events taking place in a faster time stream perfectly, such as the user of a Time Stop or Temporal Acceleration effect. Further, though you normally cannot act any faster, your perception is fast enough that you are never caught Surprised or Flat-Footed.
Furthermore, you may expend 80 feet of Strange Movement in order to act as if under a Time Stop effect for 1 apparent round. This does not require an action, and may be used at any time, though only once per round. You may even use this ability to attack creatures under their own Time Stop effect or other form of accelerated time stream, in which case you can do so once per round in that creature’s time (but only if such a creature is present- you can’t continue using it under the assurance that someone, somewhere is in a faster time stream).

The Black Goat in the Woods of a Thousand Young:
Requirements: Incontemporary Roiling Flesh-Spawn Creation, Peasant-Subjugating Terror King

Your Progeny is vast, innumerable. Your name is whispered as the mother of a thousand monsters, spawn of your shapeless flesh. Your children grow and trickle through the world, ready to spread your terror to every shadow and crevice. You become able to form a new Feature, as detailed below:

Entity: Cost - X
Appearance: You can bring forth the denizens of your imagination into reality prime.
Benefits: You can create a new creature from your own flesh or mind. The body either buds off from the Ozodrin or, if they have the Dreamscape Feature, emerges from a Nightmare Gateway. If the entity dies or is unformed its artificial soul returns to your mind or its original dreamscape (even if you do not still control the dreamscape) instead of going to whatever afterlife exists in reality prime. Soul trapping effects still function against the entity, however. The created entity is a medium sized 2HD aberration that uses the elite array for its ability scores. You may make all choices regarding feats and skills, with any skills you put ranks in becoming class skills for the racial HD of the created entity. The cost of the entity is equal to the total FP value of the features that comprise its body, chosen from features/augments you are capable of forming. The entity automatically has a torso(can be any shape), a head(optional), internal organs, and a way to breathe. The entity cannot have features from epic prestige classes (such as dreamscape), nor can it have spawn, puppet, or lure trap features. A form without eyes is blind, and a form without a mouth cannot speak. A form without limbs or tentacles has a land speed of 0, otherwise treat the entity's base land speed as 30ft before other modifiers. Note that aberrations must eat, so an entity that is not given a way to nourish itself will starve. The entity is infertile. The entities’ age categories are the same as a normal member of your race although you can choose to make it immortal. Every 24 hours the entity exists you regain up to 5 of the form points spent on it. Unforming the entity only returns points that you have not already regained, and if you have been refunded all of the points invested in the entity then it is no longer considered one of your features and cannot be unformed (although, if applicable, its soul still returns to your imagination upon death). You do not control the actions of the entity, although nothing stops you from creating an initial personality that wants to serve you. You may not spend more than 30% of your FP on the base cost of an entity, and an entity can only have 7 features + 4 per 30fp spent on the entity, rounded down. Basic Eyes count as 1/2 a feature.
Special: The level adjustment of an entity equals [2 + (Base Cost)/30], rounded down. A gaze attack increases the entity's LA by 2, and every two natural attacks and/or limbs that can hold weapons beyond the fourth increases the entity's LA by 1 (So a ball with 5 tentacles and a mouth would have an additional +1 LA). The flowing shape mouth augment and the reality warping flesh augment increase the entity's LA by 2. Some of the augments below alter the level adjustment of the entity, as noted in their descriptions. The DM may choose to raise or lower the LA of an entity (or even make it LA -) at their own discretion.
Unlike other features, an Entity feature takes one minute to form even if you could normally form a feature more quickly then that. Unforming the entity take the normal amount of time as any other feature you possess.

Augments: The level requirements noted refer to your levels in Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror.

Enhanced Potential Additional cost 2
The entity receives a +2 racial bonus to one of its ability scores.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times. Applying this augment to the same ability score more than once increases the cost by 1 each time. For example, applying this augment to strength three times would cost 2+3+4 = 9fp for a total racial bonus of +6 to strength.
Every two applications of this augment beyond the first increases the entity's LA by 1, even if the applications are to different ability scores.

Decreased Potential Cost -1
The entity receives a -2 racial penalty to one of its ability scores.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times. You cannot apply this augment if doing so would reduce one of the entity's ability scores to 0 or less. If the entity's LA has been increased by the enhanced potential feature, then every three applications of this augment reduces that increase by one (For example, if the entity's LA has been increased by 2 due to enhanced potential, then 6+ applications of decreased potential would reduced that increase to +0 but could not otherwise lower the entity's LA)

Advanced form Additional cost 5
The entity gains an additional racial aberrant HD, possibly granting it additional feats/skills/etc.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times. Applying this augment more than once increases the cost by 5 each time. For example, applying this augment three times would cost 5+10+15 = 30 form points for a total of 3 extra aberrant HD.
An entity’s level adjustment is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of +0) for every two aberrant HD it possesses (rounded down). This does not include the initial two aberrant HD it gains by being an entity.

Transient Skill Additional cost 10
The entity gains a level in a class of your choice.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times. Applying this augment more than once doubles the cost each time. For example, applying this augment three times would cost 10+20+40 = 70 form points for a total of 3 class levels.

Hidden Power Additional cost 2
The entity can conceal and/or release one or more of its features as a swift action. This is an extraordinary ability that does not use form points. You may place additional restrictions on this ability, such as an entity that can only use its tentacles at night.

Soul Stuffing Additional cost 2
The entity is controlled by an additional imaginary being. You may decide how dominance is determined – for example, one personality might be in control at night while another is in control during the day.
Special: If this ability is used in conjunction with the spirit prison augment, then any souls that are not also from reality prime cannot use the class features of the other personality. You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times, adding an additional soul each time.

Rapid Solidification Additional cost 10
Each day the entity exists you may regain up to ten of the form points spent on it instead of the usual five.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times. Each instance beyond the first increases the number of form points you may regain by 5.

Spirit Prison Additional cost 2
Required Level 8: Instead of using an imaginary being, you may insert the soul of any creature that has entered your dreamscape from reality prime. The entity retains the class levels and mental stats of the original creature but loses all other racial abilities. Other augments cannot alter these levels or mental stats, although you can use mind breaking dream and mind shattering dream on the creature. The soul does not return to your dreamscape when it dies.
Special: You can apply this augment to the same entity multiple times, adding an additional soul each time. You may decide how dominance is determined. Each soul can only use its own class features, and the Transient Skill augment can only increase the class levels of an imaginary being. Likewise, the enhanced potential augment can only increase the mental ability scores of an imaginary being. The total HD and stats of any given soul is equal to the aberrant HD of the Entity + Class levels of the soul currently in control of the entity. When the Entity dies, any souls from reality prime lose the aberrant HD they gained while a part of the Entity and regain their former racial traits, racial HD, type, physical ability scores, etc. The level adjustment of the entity is equal to level adjustment of the dominant soul (if not imaginary) plus the level adjustment of the entity feature as noted above. Levels gained are added to the dominant soul.

Cascade of Life Additional cost 5
Required Level 8: The entity is capable of reproduction. The entity can breed with any living creature of the opposite gender. Reproduction takes 9 months unless otherwise determined by the race being bred with. An entity with this augment cannot be immortal. If your base race is typically immortal, the entity ages as an elf instead. You may choose to create an entity that is asexual or has more then two sexes (perhaps needing two or more mates to breed). If the entity is capable of asexual reproduction, increase the cost by 15. Children of entities you created are denizens of reality prime and have real, non-imaginary souls. You may choose the favored class, general alignment trends (such as "Always Chaotic Neutral"), starting language, etc of the race.

Enhanced lifecycle Additional cost 3
Required Level 8: You may increase or decrease the number of years in each of the entities’ age categories (and those of any future offspring) by up to 50%. You may also choose to have this increase/decrease the time needed for reproduction in the same way, if the entity reproduces.
Special: You may apply this augment multiple times. Its effects stack, although you cannot reduce the number of months needed for reproduction below one.

Dilating Cerebral Blot Incursion:
Prerequisite: Far-Plane Recreating Terraforming Glare, Indescribable Living Dead-World Dread Tyrant.

Your fear aura becomes much more flexible than normal; you may choose to emanate it to any lower radius, or even suppress it entirely, without an action necessary. You can make Oases within the radius where the effect does not take place, centered on specific places or positions relative to you- such gaps in the aura can be easily sensed by those nearby, and Frightened or Panicked creatures will likely run to them if they can’t find the true edge of the effect. You may even choose to emanate the fear effect as normal but not afflict the other conditions, if one wishes to be more merciful upon the populace. The full range of your aura also expands to one mile per five Mythos class levels, as does the maximum range of your Flesh-Domain.
You may command four times as many total Hit Dice in creatures as part of your Flesh Domain, though any individual creature still cannot have more HD than you. You can vanish and reappear anywhere within your Flesh-Domain as a standard action, which does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
In addition to the normal spell effects you can replicate, you can affect your Flesh-Domain as if by Greater Stone Shape, Move Earth, Control Water, Animate Plants, Animate Objects, or Control Winds as a Standard action, and once per day may replicate a Planar Perinarch effect as a Full Round action, treating your Flesh Domain as a Divinely Morphic plane for the sake of the effect. You may also use a Nightmare or Dream effect on any creature sleeping in the area, though only once per creature per period of sleep (intermittent, troubled sleep still counts as one period). Lastly, you may use the travel version of Gate once per day per four Mythos class levels within your Flesh Domain, targeting the Far Realm, except the Gate created may fill up to an area of one 10’ cube per Mythos class levels. You may expend two uses of the Gate effect to instead create a Reality Maelstrom, with its area of effect and duration multiplied by one tenth of your Mythos class level (round down), also targeting the Far Realm. The DCs for all of these abilities is calculated as for a Mythos.
Creatures within your Fear Aura that suffer from a Fear Effect caused by you count as scrying you for the purpose of Sinister Image, and you may utilize the effects of Sinister Image on such creatures even if you do not otherwise have that ability. While doing so, the radius around the creature allowed by Sinister Image counts as part of your Flesh Domain. Yeah. Go crazy.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-27, 09:01 AM

I do hope I didn't scare everybody away... or have people just generally moved on from Mythos, and I didn't get the memo?

Kapskaen

2018-03-27, 09:45 AM

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that reading the 'Anathemic Incarnation of Supracosmic Horror' has made me want to go back and re-work a villain I thought I'd finished, because that class is too perfect not to use for him

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-27, 03:32 PM

Well, I still don't like the name so much, but thanks. Obviously the flavor did not start with me, though.

Morphic tide

2018-03-27, 10:48 PM

It really does look like Mythos has died, hasn't it? One of the things I kinda worked through some preliminary thoughts on is the Mythic Fool that Xefas developed the first shred of in-universe lore on. Basically, in Mythos-land, The Fool was a Lawgiver that was defined as having infinite unrealized potential, being the weakest Lawbringer as a result of never realizing any potential. A meeting with The Shadow, a Titan defined as opposition made manifest that was rendered the weakest Titan because the one responsible for the shift into a Titan was self-defined as unopposable, resulted in the two "merging"/sacrificing themselves to create The Sun, who abandoned key elements of both to become beyond all others as justice incarnate (of the stick-up-ass obedient variety) and realized potential made manifest.

When The Sun truly opposed The Empyrian, slaying the thing responsible for making a bubble of consistency in the Far Realms, the Shadow returned, striking the sun from within, as well as from without.

Winning this battle resulted in The Sun becoming a literal black hole sue, realizing infinite potential as a manifest truth. Compromising on this could have revived The Fool in the same way The Shadow was revived by utter opposition or abandonment of submission (it's... not clear why killing The Empyrian brought back The Shadow). But The Fool is infinite unrealized potential, and so if The Fool did return, nobody would notice, just as all thought The Shadow dead from how weak its "birth" into "reality" made it. Of course, Anthols can differ from their Lawbringer or Titan of origin, that's why non-hypermurder-everything Teramach exist.

Mechanically, the Fool's Anthol class would be the Mythic Factotum, third or fourth rate at any given thing, but able to be third or fourth rate at everything. The overlap with Bard should be fairly clear, given that Bards also do everything to some significant proficiency (which is why they're able to be worth using in some t2 parties, even though they lack the power to keep up). Lots of ability swapping and stupidly-general acquisition (or just plug it into an existing system for ripping off large chunks of classes like the Tricossiate, or the setup I whipped up for the current Base Class Contest, though that could also serve as a non-Mythos "core" to start applying Mythos abilities to)

Theseventh

2018-03-27, 11:46 PM

When has death ever stopped anything Mythos related? It's going as long as people make content for it. And Falcon just posted from fresh (Albeit converted) content. Thread slows down and picks up like the ebb and flow of the tides so slow periods are normal.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-28, 12:08 AM

Morphic tide

2018-03-28, 01:17 AM

I agree on the Fool concept- it would definitely be a Bard/Factotum hybrid, and quite possibly have a ton of abilities relating to luck and probability. I actually do have a bundle of Luck feat based Mythos I didn't know what to do with, because they weren't enough for their own class but were a bit too much for a 'Race' type feat. I could have made it into a PrC, though, but I don't think we'd nailed down the nonepic PrC format at the time and I was making some of them with a specific character in mind that wouldn't fit with outright taking a PrC but did have fate-related aspects. ANYWAY. I believe it was 8 of them, 2 of each tier, that kind of formed into two tracks based on whether you are favored by fate or you reject it to make your own- one thus focusing on being granted more by Luck feats, and one focusing on brute-forcing your luck. I'll have to dig around for it, though, I'm not sure I typed it up anywhere.

The Fool isn't lucky, though. The Fool is the potential omnipotent. The Fool is about having potential for real skill, but the Fool itself cannot have any skill due to being defined by unrealized potential. Anthols can violate this to realize some of that potential. It's a matter of being able to grow to kick literally anyone's ass, not lucking out. Luck can fit, mind you, but isn't really in the theme of the Lawbringer known as the Fool, and as such isn't a good fit for an Anthol class based on said Lawbringer.

Oh, also, the Bard elements are mostly a matter of how the mechanics play out. Bards are able to be good at anything, or decent at very nearly everything, while Factotums are good at things based on what they choose for the day. The thematic elements of Bard aren't relevant as anything other than a skillset that the Fool could pick up. Possibly divided up between a number of Mythos that cover language-based power and do various abnormal things with it.

Kapskaen

2018-03-28, 03:36 AM

From your description of The Fool, it sounds kinda like Red Mage from 8-Bit Theatre would be something of an example of his Anthol, being known for changing his character sheet on the fly to gain temporary ability at something, and being the only person who 'knew' The Rules of their world, but whom no one ever believed. Still sounds cool though.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-28, 10:41 AM

Morphic tide

2018-03-28, 01:56 PM

Well, it's like you were talking about last page; the classes can't be too constrained to one specific concept, they need to embody the entirety of the archetype represented. The insistence on potential being unrealized can't really last all that long, because how would that even look for a high-level character? Luck, though, is intrinsic to the archetypal concept of the Fool; honestly, it represents unfulfilled potential as much as any factotum-type feature-switching because it represents the opposite of skill- it didn't happen because you're that good, it just sort of ended up like that.
By the same full-spread argument, there's no better place to put Bard abilities than the Fool- Aside from the sheer ally-buffing aspect that's represented by the Megaligeti, Bardic Music just drips with the Fool, the Jester, the Buffoon. Who else has always got a song on their lips, in a way that is just so innocently inspiring in a row? Well, when it isn't completely annoying, that is.
I mean, c'mon. Tell me that when you think stereotypical Bard, you don't think of the village idiot? That's what the fool is, is turning spectacular screwball imbecility up to fifteen and making it a scheme-ruining art form.

...I don't think you're properly understanding what I refer to when I speak of the Fool. It's actually a specific Lawbringer in the existing lore, by Xefas, that had plans for getting its own Anthol class, and Anthols are partly defined by being able to deviate from their Titan/Lawbringer, so realizing some potential is possible for an Anthol of the Fool. A Jester was a separately-listed potential class in Xefas' notes, which would be a Mythic Bard. Granted, much of what you're referring to is a key way to make personal incompetents be useful, so it can fit with "could be ultramegabadass, but cursed to never reach full ultramegabadass". So there's a place for it.

Unrealized potential, on a high-level character, is Triple 7ths with Full BAB. Second or third rate in a stupidly broad field of competencies. By JaronK's tier system, it actually ends up skipping over t2 to go from t3 to t1, because there's never going to be a thing they're below par at for their raw power. Which is one of the awkward things about JaronK's tiers that resulted in the redo project in which I argued for Wizards and Artificers being t2, owing to downright excessive preparation and optimization needs to actually meaningfully surpass Sorcerer. At which point Sorcerer's options at the same optimization level include going Schrodinger, leaving any non-Schrodinger Wizard hopelessly behind.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-28, 02:24 PM

Morphic tide

2018-03-28, 04:27 PM

No, I get what you mean about the Lawbringer, it just felt like you were tying the class a bit too closely to said Titan. It looks like I might have misinterpreted, but it sounded like you were saying they should only expand a little bit on the Titan's original nature.

It's more that you seemed to be looking at Bard-as-Musician/Herald as the focus of Bard-type shaninigans, rather than Bard-as-Jester/Fool. You looked to be wanting to staple the Bard class themes to the Fool, which... Doesn't work.

Gideon Falcon

2018-03-29, 12:32 PM

spwack

2018-03-30, 03:39 AM

Well of course the Anthol of The Fool is hard-like. They are all about their own unrealised potential. Which evidently means that any potential they would earn becomes that of those nearby. All about buffs, and contrasting power levels.

Edit: ludicrously expensive practical jokes as Mythos Points. Make it happen people.

Yasahiro

2018-04-02, 08:15 PM

So I got a question. When Jagannatha increases his size category because of his mythos, is the +4 Str and the +8 Str later the only boosts he gets or he also gets the NATURAL Boosts to stats from increasing size?

Gideon Falcon

2018-04-03, 06:33 PM

Hmmm. Good question. I'm not sure, but I think the bonuses from the Mythos are supposed to subsume the Size Increase bonus and surpass it.

Yasahiro

2018-04-04, 12:11 AM

Hmmm. Good question. I'm not sure, but I think the bonuses from the Mythos are supposed to subsume the Size Increase bonus and surpass it.

Except these bonuses would be smaller than you'd get from size increase through Improving Monsters

Gideon Falcon

2018-04-04, 01:58 AM

I thought it was generally just +2 str per category, unless you were really big. Assuming a medium starting size, I'm pretty sure it isn't smaller.

Allnightmask

2018-04-04, 11:23 AM

The size increase has a specific numbers tied to it, specific trumps the typical in most all cases.

Dr_Dinosaur

2018-04-12, 03:13 PM

Might be worth looking at Dungeon World's "Fool" class and Homestuck's "Page" class for inspiration. They're not great at anything in particular, but have great potential if they develop far enough or get lucky and make the game better for their party due to subtle, only semi-conscious manipulation of the rules and world themselves (When the Fool makes a knowledge check, the player decides what the character knows and it becomes true)

7th son of sons

2018-04-17, 06:34 PM

Alright, it's been a long, long, long time coming, but with a lot more time playing dnd and a lot more time reading, I'm going to be reworking both my Mythos classes soon(ish)

Gideon Falcon

2018-04-17, 08:22 PM

Sick! Let me know if any Epifovian changes would be significant for the Cosmic Horror a few pages back.

7th son of sons

2018-04-18, 11:51 AM

Mostly expect me to be cleaning up a lot of wording, reworking some abilities that are kinda wonky, and replacing some abilities with more interesting/impactful ones

Morphic tide

2018-04-19, 01:24 AM

My bad. I did mean the more whimsical aspect of the bard, like the old demotivator of the Monty Python crew titled BARDS: Just... just Bards. There's always been a big aspect of the Bard being the idiot of the party, which was what I was trying to get at.

The big problem is... That those whimsical elements are emergent factors that are a player-trope, not actually part of the Bard as a class concept. The Bard in D&D is vastly more a proper jester, a skilled entertainer, or musician than a village fool. Sure, Perform (Comedy) can easily and frequently involve acting like a fool, but the key is that it's acting like a fool, not actually being one. So I kinda missed your point.

So, let's talk tags for The Fool's Anthol class!

The incompetent with bizarre effectiveness would best be served by a [Luck] tag, but the catch is that such effects should revolve around making one succeed where they'd otherwise fail, because I've never seen that done before. Rerolls, bonuses after rolls in the event of failure, damage bonuses for 1s on damage rolls and generally making it so that when you should fail or underperform, you don't, but you also don't get oodles of bonuses to make you do great. In effect, it's a removal of awfulness, even from bad luck, rather than an improvement of competence via luck. In general, have it result in obliterating the lower end of the bell curve, thus making it grind through enemies instead of having these huge bursts of awesome that level armies. Every swing fells three men, occasionally more and no less, instead of each swing having a one in three chance of felling nine men.

Active [Luck] effects are hard to work with, as you're basically forced to resort to giving characters explicit handwave powers. Which really doesn't work in roleplaying games. "Doesn't count"s, "Didn't work"s and "It just happened"s are the bulk of what can be done with such effects. As a result, [Luck] Mythos would have to be passives and supplementary effects that alter other abilities, focused on making sure something gets through regardless of extenuating circumstances, power differences, or various other things.

The ability swapping/aggrigating-over-time would be a single system for ability acquisition in the baseline, then Mythos expand access and add related benefits. The system I'm thinking of using is one I worked out for the base class contest, based on having meta-classes with what used to be feature-stealing effects. This would result in an [Associate] tag, offering more breadth to the available Associations, and thus more broad ability stealing, and altering the effectiveness of them, such as amplifying resources or providing pseudo-meta-whatever effects.

Active ones would be mostly exotic meta-whatevers, altering the effects of the relevant abilities (could be multiple power sources covered, or even every power source) through connected costs, often of other power sources (maybe a general "effective spell level" value to handle OmniTheurge?), but on the spot ability acquisition would also be present, allowing for temporarily exceeding normal limits on how many things are available at once and rather considerably boosted versatility.

Dr_Dinosaur

2018-05-07, 01:34 AM

About how much would people say mythos classes up the party's CR if used in Pathfinder, as a ballpark estimate?

Gideon Falcon

2018-05-08, 07:17 PM

Theseventh

2018-05-10, 12:50 PM

Ugh. CRs are hard to ballpark for PC's. I'd guess 50% higher or so, off the top of my head. Should I repost the Cosmic Horror update so people can see it again to give ideas, or should I put it in its own thread?

It's own thread is not a bad idea. That was people can PEACH and ect without bumping the mythos thread unnecessarily.

Gideon Falcon

2018-05-21, 10:05 PM

Alright. I posted the PrC here, (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?558733-WIP-quot-IA!-IA!-CTHULHU-FTAGHN!-quot-3-5e-Mythos-Epic-PrC-PEACH) so if anyone wants to comment, please do.

Defiantnight

2018-06-13, 06:12 PM

Currently playing two Epifovians right now, please do keep us up to date if anything there gets changed :smallbiggrin:

Quarian Rex

2018-06-23, 05:09 AM

Alright, it's been a long, long, long time coming, but with a lot more time playing dnd and a lot more time reading, I'm going to be reworking both my Mythos classes soon(ish)

Didn't see this earlier and went to check which classes might get looked at. This reminded me that I should really try to finish the PEACH that I started on the Dinyomi almost... two... years... ago...

I seem to have lost track of some things. Keep us updated though.

Sgt. Cookie

2018-06-23, 09:51 AM

Didn't see this earlier and went to check which classes might get looked at. This reminded me that I should really try to finish the PEACH that I started on the Dinyomi almost... two... years... ago...

*Laughs in Mythic Summoner*

Dimmet

2018-09-24, 01:44 AM

khadgar567

2018-09-24, 10:48 AM

What happened to Mythos? I can't find a post from Xefas during this year, there's so many gorgeous projects going unfinished, and plenty of things could use more Mythos that'd make their way onto the Random Mythos gdocs.

This is my favorite homebrew subsystem, and the flavor and themes involved are practically unique in D&D, the only way I can really get interested in playing in campaigns these days. I need more. Have I been missing new things?
well mythos comunity is kinda silent on how to continue and there is the bit of pathfinder playtest situaton going on like are we gonna convert to pathfinder 2e or stick with sinking ship of 3.5.

Dimmet

2018-10-01, 03:12 PM

well mythos comunity is kinda silent on how to continue and there is the bit of pathfinder playtest situaton going on like are we gonna convert to pathfinder 2e or stick with sinking ship of 3.5.

That's terrible to hear... The advent of 5e, and Paizo's apparent attempt to do the same marketing ploy has been a huge hit to 3.5/3.PF. But my groups and I aren't moving on, and Mythos is honestly the place I've been looking to for material to interest me since I vastly prefer the 3.X system. The kind of thinking these new systems seem to engender doesn't lend well to the flavor and potential of these class ideas.

Lanth Sor

2018-10-02, 01:01 PM

In general like a large portion of the changes that come with PF2, that said, Skills are not one of them. I like the trained, expert, master, legend system but killing skp was dumb.

The feat focus is really in keeping with mythos mentality. I think we should get away form granting feats for mythos, granting the benefits they give works well, but then we should note it counts as having the equivalent feat, kind of like how stone power counts as power attack.

Gideon Falcon

2018-10-03, 08:15 PM

The difficulty I had was just running out of ideas for the classes I had, meaning that without other people active in the thread, I didn't have any input to make more material.

Vauron

2018-10-04, 11:12 AM

Morphic tide

2018-10-04, 12:18 PM

Personally, I largely dropped out due to two factors. First, my interest in 3.5 in general waned. Secondly, I'd come to feel it was kinda silly to keep trying to stuff an exp based system into the very level based Dnd.

Honestly I'd personally think it'd work better if Mythos material dropped levels entirely. Just set it up so that you get access to new tiers of mythos based on the amount of experience spent on mythos.

One of my thoughts was to actually convert it into a directly GP based system, balancing against magic items by cost instead of slot like Incarnum, with some abilities costing Mythos points to use that are then balanced against similarly-costed consumables. Furthermore, a central issue of Mythos's point-based nature is that, for one, the points are too vague in how you get them. As I've said before, determining lack of benefit is wildly impractical, but determining inefficient benefit is relatively easy. Another issue is that the nearly total reliance on Mythos functions turns them into a bad kind of list-based class, because Xefas' own advice was to put necessary number fixes into those chosen features, resulting in needing nearly every option to stand entirely on its own as a viable feature. Which rapidly inflates the power and versatility of the classes to the point that they can't "play down" to t3 without extensive game knowledge, unlike Wizards and Clerics who need extensive game knowledge to fully play at t1.

A restructuring of Mythos, as a subsystem, that I'd like more would be to make it so that highly redundant Mythos are more "condensed" into one per Mythos level, if not even fewer, with subset functions being repurchase options. For example, Automatic Strike from the Bellator (if I recall the names correctly) could instead be a repurchase option for each Discipline-Mythos that has good use for it without breaking things. This means you can keep it out of Divine Spirit to avoid massive health recovery (it's too trivial for the magnitude of value), while keeping it for Desert Wind to let you sword-beam all day, every day. Then you can have each Discipline be more differentiated, with passives scaling with repurchases for each Discipline, while letting you give fitting Disciplines to non-Bellator Anthols without giving them unfitting Disciplines as a side effect, like the Teramacht getting Tiger Claw.

By compacting a lot more of the building-upon into repurchase options, we can get the lists down to the point we could afford to fairly easily give heavily overlapping class lists while also having closely-related effects become significantly more diverse by having room for such redundant Mythos being separate. Shadowcaster's formatting can help with this, letting you give fancy names to the repurchase options while still letting you confine the "top-level", rather open-ended, Mythos to a manageable number of "competency areas". Granted, this leads to description complications because you can't neatly explain what the Mythos actually does, but given the nature of Mythos as an expressly narrative-inspired system, I feel that nonmechanical descriptions fit better anyways, regardless of the structure of the system. Having Mythos map so closely to spells just feels wrong, as they're supposed to be narrative abilities, yet they spiral out into extensively-described narrow-use (for one selection of them) abilities that behave quite like the spells they're meant to be a viable alternative to.

khadgar567

2018-10-04, 12:46 PM

One of my thoughts was to actually convert it into a directly GP based system, balancing against magic items by cost instead of slot like Incarnum, with some abilities costing Mythos points to use that are then balanced against similarly-costed consumables. Furthermore, a central issue of Mythos's point-based nature is that, for one, the points are too vague in how you get them. As I've said before, determining lack of benefit is wildly impractical, but determining inefficient benefit is relatively easy. Another issue is that the nearly total reliance on Mythos functions turns them into a bad kind of list-based class, because Xefas' own advice was to put necessary number fixes into those chosen features, resulting in needing nearly every option to stand entirely on its own as a viable feature. Which rapidly inflates the power and versatility of the classes to the point that they can't "play down" to t3 without extensive game knowledge, unlike Wizards and Clerics who need extensive game knowledge to fully play at t1.

A restructuring of Mythos, as a subsystem, that I'd like more would be to make it so that highly redundant Mythos are more "condensed" into one per Mythos level, if not even fewer, with subset functions being repurchase options. For example, Automatic Strike from the Bellator (if I recall the names correctly) could instead be a repurchase option for each Discipline-Mythos that has good use for it without breaking things. This means you can keep it out of Divine Spirit to avoid massive health recovery (it's too trivial for the magnitude of value), while keeping it for Desert Wind to let you sword-beam all day, every day. Then you can have each Discipline be more differentiated, with passives scaling with repurchases for each Discipline, while letting you give fitting Disciplines to non-Bellator Anthols without giving them unfitting Disciplines as a side effect, like the Teramacht getting Tiger Claw.

By compacting a lot more of the building-upon into repurchase options, we can get the lists down to the point we could afford to fairly easily give heavily overlapping class lists while also having closely-related effects become significantly more diverse by having room for such redundant Mythos being separate. Shadowcaster's formatting can help with this, letting you give fancy names to the repurchase options while still letting you confine the "top-level", rather open-ended, Mythos to a manageable number of "competency areas". Granted, this leads to description complications because you can't neatly explain what the Mythos actually does, but given the nature of Mythos as an expressly narrative-inspired system, I feel that nonmechanical descriptions fit better anyways, regardless of the structure of the system. Having Mythos map so closely to spells just feels wrong, as they're supposed to be narrative abilities, yet they spiral out into extensively-described narrow-use (for one selection of them) abilities that behave quite like the spells they're meant to be a viable alternative to.
agreed with morphic tide here. we are kinda need base rules for mythos system to grow properly. i know we are kinda draw from various works ( mainly exalted). But without core rules for system every mythow brewer kinda brews their own rules so we cant properly multiclass from core classes or cross class in mythos my base idea is kinda use spheres of power/ might as chassis where each mythos class has distinct progression of 10, 15 or 20 mythos talents to grow in to. This way we can kinda intruduce mythos variants of any class by patching them to their mythos progressions. It also helps magical side of the mythos creation by giving us ability to barrier the realy dangerous talents from particular classes.

Morphic tide

2018-10-04, 08:04 PM

agreed with morphic tide here. we are kinda need base rules for mythos system to grow properly. i know we are kinda draw from various works ( mainly exalted). But without core rules for system every mythow brewer kinda brews their own rules so we cant properly multiclass from core classes or cross class in mythos my base idea is kinda use spheres of power/ might as chassis where each mythos class has distinct progression of 10, 15 or 20 mythos talents to grow in to. This way we can kinda intruduce mythos variants of any class by patching them to their mythos progressions. It also helps magical side of the mythos creation by giving us ability to barrier the realy dangerous talents from particular classes.

My thoughts are actually to keep the trading of WBL for more features, but confine the segments of the class's available features with high-density Mythos. Kinda like if Shadowcaster chose Paths instead of individual Mysteries. Like, one Mythos for each Discipline from Tome of Battle, then you spend Mythos Points to build out the Mythos abilities for that Discipline, gaining bonuses related to it based on investment into that one thing (granted, I actually generally dislike the various direct replication Mythos. Doesn't really feel like something base classes of a subsystem should have). One of the advantages of this is that you can more easily permit large chunks of capabilities to be shared and have the extremely broad capabilities on the classes without causing them to become t2/t1 by default because you can cherry pick a large number of options all made to be independently viable because they need to be, otherwise you're too able to get a character wildly below their expected power level.

The Anakitos and Teramacht could share a fairly significant number of high-level Mythos that fall under the idea of retribution, as that is a concept which fits both "themes" fairly well, while the Bellator and Efevreti can share crafting Mythos for "basic" weapons and armor, as such abilities fit both general concepts (anything goes martial combatant and a crazed creator), albeit in different ways. And those differences come from the other Mythos they choose and, extremely importantly, baseline class features. Raw numeric needs could then be handled by the scaling benefits of investing in various Mythos and the baseline features, entirely doing away with the painfully build-intensive Excellency mechanic. With this, you need just one or two Mythos per concept, as each Mythos has most of the needed mechanical functions.

The result is very similar to a setup I tried to get to work based on the various "build-a-class" systems, such as the Trisocciate (I'm the one who got it locked for necromancy!) and Split Soul, where you essentially grab a relatively small number of relatively large areas of competence, but instead of being a level-based system, it's GP-based with a level lock. Instead of gear or consumables, you can spend WBL on character-internal power, with fluff that causes high-level characters that keep doing it at the highest rate they can get away with to passively break settings by dumping vast sums of wealth into various charities and ego-inflating actions to internalize the power. This can be useful for DMs, as a near-Epic Anthol ends up throwing hundreds of thousands of GP into industries normally restricted to purchases and donations of a few hundred. That wealth goes somewhere, and if the DM has plots with shady merchants, those merchants get large sums of extra GP to spend.

A side effect is that stuff like the Anakitos' [Purity] mechanic would have to be generalized so that multiple classes could make use of such Mythos. This, in my opinion, can be used to get the fluff and mechanics more integrated by having a mechanic that specifically promotes Anthol behavior being more similar to their associated Titan or Lawbringer. Of course, you can grab Mythos that ignore such confines to free your character from similarities, letting you play as a Teramacht who behaves little differently from a payback-focused Anakitos. But the most wide-reaching, most setting-shattering powers are locked to that mechanic (and other RP-confining mechanics), so if you want to eat The Sun and burn half the multiverse as a Teramacht, you have to act like The Monster.

Lanth Sor

2018-10-05, 06:47 PM

Hadn't thought of rehashing the costs I LIKE IT!!!.

I am working an a class that is based on class features that work based on meeting a goal like the story feats of pathfinder. Goal completion requires at least 2 HD per class level be observing you while performing the goal.

Twin Blade Discipline
- Prerequisite: Dex 13, BAB +1
- Benefit: When wielding 2 or more weapons you can make 1 attack with each extra weapon per attack granted by your base attack bonus. You take a -2 penalty per weapon past the first used.
- Goal: Land 1 more attack then your base attack bonsus allows in a round 1000 times.
- Completion Boon: Damage form each attack is totaled before damage reduction is applied. Each consecutive hit deals one more damage then the previous hit in the same round.
- Special: For the purpose of meeting prerequisites this functions as Two Weapon Fighting. Starting at +6 bab it also counts as Improved Two Weapon Fighting. Starting at +11 bab it also counts as Greater Two Weapon Fighting. Starting at +16 bab it also counts as Perfect Two Weapon Fighting.

Lanth Sor

2018-10-23, 02:13 PM

My current class will be utilizing the developments we've discussed here.

Rogthnor

2018-10-26, 07:28 AM

Has anyone played the 5e mythos classes? Also does anyone know if we'll be getting a 5e Jagganoth?

ThreadNecro5

2018-10-26, 03:09 PM

Oh, this is still active.

I've a couple ideas in the works and had begun the Wall of Flesh epic level prestige class. And the 'Mythic Nothing' is hard to write for. I know what I want it to be in the end, just trying to get it there.

One idea I had but cant think of a good way to do is a mythos class based on the idea of 'the hero that sees themselves become the villain'. Or a 'Mythic Quest' if you will, imagine a class where the character begins as a classic 'the antagonist burned my hometown' type and grows over time into a classical hero that assembles a group of allies (buff other characters?) and gathers the magical McGuffins, passes the ancient trials, and sets out to slay the dark lord. Only after that the mythos must keep going and without a villain to face the hero becomes their own inverse (Shintai) who becomes the antagonist of more members of the class their acts inspire against them while those new hero's become a foe for the story as the 'villain protagonist' character. Obviously the fluff adapts around the members of the class's alignments appropriate so the evil tyrant grows to become a paragon on justice and leading their former second in command to oppose them. As I said I don't quite know what to do with it so if anyone out there is inspired feel free to use any of the ideas here for your own work.

Another idea of mine is the 'Mythic Blessed One' someone chosen by some god or similar entity/force to work in their name and embody their nature. Think Greek legends or Grithith from Berserk. I had another example but I forget the character's name. An elf from the Warhammer fantasy/Age of Sigmar setting.

Inevitability

2018-11-09, 12:48 PM

So whoever is still reading this: here's this concept I had.

Basically, a Mythic Pacifist. The Mythos's origin is a Lawgiver of guidance, self-sacrifice, and most of all: utter pacifism, who ended up getting destroyed by the Monster at some point in time. When the dead titans were used to create the world, tiny bits of the lawgiver were also included, giving rise to a rare but occasionally emerging Mythos.

Some design ideas I have so far:

-Mainly wisdom-based, with side roles for charisma and constitution.
-The 'gold to Mythos' conversion is based on donating goods or money to the poor.
-Wisdom to AC while wearing no armor.
-Diehard as a bonus feat at level 3.
-Wisdom as a substitute for Dexterity when determining Reflex saves.

A few example Exceptional Mythos:

First-Principle Weapon Style
Prerequisite: -
[Mercy]

You have mastered a fighting style characterized by calm, deliberate strikes and nonlethal takedowns, allowing you to end battles without ending lives.

You gain Subduing Strike and Intuitive Attack as bonus feats, and you ignore the Exalted nature of those feats. You also gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

Basic
Ascetic Battlemaster: When dealing nonlethal damage with a simple weapon, you can substitute your wisdom modifier for your strength modifier when determining damage.

Blade-Breaking Redeemer: You gain Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. When attempting to sunder a weapon, you ignore any hardness it may possess. If you destroy a weapon with a sunder attempt, the weapon's value in gold pieces is granted to you as mythos points.

Enlightened Arrow Source: Your ranged attacks no longer provoke attacks of opportunity. Furthermore, you gain Precise Shot and Point-Blank Shot as bonus feats.

Live-By-The-Sword Punisher: You gain Improved Disarm as a bonus feat. If you successfully disarm a creature of a weapon, you can immediately make an attack against it with the weapon you just took, assuming you have enough free hands to use it. You are considered to be proficient with the weapon when making this attack.

Mercy of the Gentle Hand: You gain Superior Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat, and can make unarmed strikes with any part of your body just as a monk can.

Shooting an Olive Branch: You gain Zen Archery as a bonus feat. Furthermore, you can deal nonlethal damage using ranged weapons with no penalty to your attack roll.

Staff-to-Shield Adaptability: When wielding a simple melee weapon in two hands, you gain a +3 shield bonus to AC.

Violence-Ending Jab: You gain Stunning Fist and Extra Stunning as bonus feats.

Advanced:
Manifold Paths to Peace: You gain a basic manifestation of this Mythos that you do not already possess.

Self-Sacrificing Stigmata Receiver
Prerequisite: -
[Martyrdom]

As a swift action, you can touch a living creature and transfer some of its wounds to yourself. The creature heals a number of hit points up to (your constitution bonus times your Eirinistis level), with the exact amount decided by you. You then take the amount healed as damage. This damage ignores temporary hit points, Shield Other, Share Pain, or any other effect that would reduce the amount of damage you would take. It bypasses regeneration and all other effects that would turn it into nonlethal damage. This ability is not based on positive or negative energy. A creature with Tomb-Tainted Soul may still be healed by this effect, and an Eirinistis with that feat would still be damaged.

It is possible for the damage healed to exceed your current hit points.

For example: during a tough battle a 7th-level Eirinistis with 18 constitution is at -8 HP. They are conscious (thanks to their Diehard feat), and on their turn move over to a wounded Anakitos ally. They activate this ability, choosing to heal their ally for the maximum amount of 28 hit points. The Anakitos regains 28 hit points while the Eirinistis takes that much damage. The Eirinistis is now at -36 HP, and barring extraordinary circumstances (such as a Delay Death spell), dies.

Rogthnor

2019-02-02, 05:14 PM

Anyone know if xefas is still frequenting the forums?

Morphic tide

2019-02-03, 03:10 PM

Anyone know if xefas is still frequenting the forums?

His last post was in 2017.

Lanth Sor

2019-02-04, 09:14 AM

Sometimes you can catch him on the Mythos Discord

Imbalance

2019-02-04, 03:36 PM

Grievous? Why, I never!

Rogthnor

2019-10-06, 08:45 PM

So I haven't formatted it yet for the forum, but I just finished my first pass at a Mythos class, and I could use some feedback.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/157dwltaLaF4VWMtGyJbFq2Iij53Acma8e76j4f_rHTQ/edit?usp=sharing

Its complete, atm, but it could definitely use some help since I haven't played 3.5 in a while, and might need some expansions

Lanth Sor

2019-10-07, 12:48 PM

Ill add it to the compendium

Rogthnor

2019-10-08, 10:18 PM

It now has a page!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?599924-Mythos-Homebrew-Bachus-the-Mythic-Bard&p=24188555#post24188555

Could use some feedback, especially on what tier to put some of these mythos in

Kymme

2022-12-19, 09:50 PM

Okay so, status report.

Xefas has posted a totally revamped Olethrofex and the first version of the Cynosure over on the Mythos Discord. This happened a while ago.

Also, I've just posted a mythos class to the forum called the Dysoikos (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?652446-3-5-Base-Class-Mythos-quot-When-a-house-is-both-hungry-and-awake-quot&p=25660874&viewfull=1#post25660874). It's about playing a house. Check it out!