What is Miko praying for?

[Freelance Henchman]

As a Miko-fan, I'm hoping its along the lines of "Sorry 12 gods, I screwed up royally and regret this terrible deed, please give me a chance to make good".

I'm *afraid* it may be more like "Surely this is all a plot by Evil forces that pretended to be the 12 gods and took away my Paladin abilities, so give'em back please kthnx bye".

[truemane]

I would guess that she's praying for overall guidance and advice. I'm thinking that at some point she'll ask a question, something wacky will happen at the same time (which will probably be Elan's fault), she'll think that's her answer from the Gods, and she'll become a Blackguard shortly thereafter.

[jindra34]

I would guess that she's praying for overall guidance and advice. I'm thinking that at some point she'll ask a question, something wacky will happen at the same time (which will probably be Elan's fault), she'll think that's her answer from the Gods, and she'll become a Blackguard shortly thereafter.

Of course the gods are likely ignoring her prayers...

[LordVader]

I think she's just meditating. In the comic she fought Roy in she was still convinced she had the gods' favor and this was "all just a part of their plans for her". :sigh:

[Freelance Henchman]

Of course the gods are likely ignoring her prayers...

Wouldnt that be ridiculously petty? I mean, theyre gods, it would take actual effort *not* to hear the prayers of someone who is obviously a fanatic (if misguided) believer.

[Freelance Henchman]

I think she's just meditating. In the comic she fought Roy in she was still convinced she had the gods' favor and this was "all just a part of their plans for her". :sigh:

Meditating as in emptying your mind and not thinking any thoughts? Hm. Possible, I guess.

[chibibar]

Wouldnt that be ridiculously petty? I mean, theyre gods, it would take actual effort *not* to hear the prayers of someone who is obviously a fanatic (if misguided) believer.

The gods listen to all prayers..... responding to them?? that is a different story.

[truemane]

Wouldnt that be ridiculously petty? I mean, theyre gods, it would take actual effort *not* to hear the prayers of someone who is obviously a fanatic (if misguided) believer.

Just because they're hearing her doesn't mean they have to answer. And they could be punishing/testing her. Gods are notorious for that sort of thing. In any case, I don't think she's going to get any answer that doesn't come from her own mind.

[Freelance Henchman]

Just because they're hearing her doesn't mean they have to answer. And they could be punishing/testing her. Gods are notorious for that sort of thing. In any case, I don't think she's going to get any answer that doesn't come from her own mind.

Amazing that she got to be a Paladin at all, really, if the state of her mind was always as closed as shown in the comic.

But she is something of an ace in the sleeve in the current situation: a powerful high-level fighter with healing abilities would be a terrific asset in the current battle.

[truemane]

Well, I guess the combination of her acting by the strictest defintion of LG, combined with the Eastern Flavoured Gods allowed her to be a Paladin, but her inability to grow beyond her own narrow definition of what a Paladin is caused her to lose her Paladinhood.

But were she to enter the battle, she would indeed be trouble.

[One Skunk Todd]

I'm guessing she was praying for Nale and Sabine to go away. And it worked! :smalltongue:

[Fitzclowningham]

I don't think she has healing abilities anymore.

[Freelance Henchman]

I don't think she has healing abilities anymore.

If she got her powers back, I meant.

[Spiryt]

What praying? She was just sneezing.

[truemane]

She'll need at least a sizeable Atonement spell and (probably) a hefy quest before THAT happens. That's what makes me think she's going to go bad. Someone will offer her the chance to atone, and she'll be unable to admit that what she did was wrong.

And her Pride will be her undoing.

[factotum]

Welcome to the 12 Gods Helpline! Please press 1 if you want to attempt atonement... :smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

Out of body religious experience?

[Eriol]

You know, some of this thread has been half-joking, and that's fine, but in the end I do hope that they come to a resolution to her character that involves more than something simple. You could say that Miko's been a relatively flat character so far, but whichever way she goes, I hope that it is NOT clichéd, or easy, or anything like that. If she falls, make it 100% plausible (via her beliefs changing I mean), or if she seeks the path of redemption, make her actually believe it and grow, not just "pressing the reset button" and keeping her on the edge of falling like she used to be quite often.

[Rhialto]

Actually, I'd say that Miko's going further down the dark path of evil is pretty much inevitable if she keeps to her current beliefs. It's the rationalization that's the important part. I suspect she will continue to get worse while insisting all the while that she is the Only True Warrior of Light Left In The World(tm).

[Setra]

You know, some of this thread has been half-joking, and that's fine, but in the end I do hope that they come to a resolution to her character that involves more than something simple. You could say that Miko's been a relatively flat character so far, but whichever way she goes, I hope that it is NOT clichéd, or easy, or anything like that. If she falls, make it 100% plausible (via her beliefs changing I mean), or if she seeks the path of redemption, make her actually believe it and grow, not just "pressing the reset button" and keeping her on the edge of falling like she used to be quite often.
I agree with you

Whatever happens, I hope it looks like it is because of her choices, not just "Hmm I want her to become a Blackguard.. so"

[Ridureyu]

I've seen too many Miko-type characters redeem themselves in fiction - thing is, it's always th FEMALES who 'turn good," while the males (almost all) stay evil and die. And yes, I know that Darth Vader is an exception to this rule.


Miko's probably praying for the individualized, painful deaths of the OotS.


"I pray that you will prove me right by killing Roy. And the paladins who arrested me. And even if you don't, I understand that it's a test. But please kill them. And the halfling. And that rogue. And Peter Parker."

[Alex Warlorn]

While Miko IS going to need someone to beat her to death with the clue stick and get her resurrected to make her realize that's blatantly violated the Paladin code on killing a helpless non-agressive opponent who never once his life meant her any harm.

But this idea, I say it's too predictable for Miko to turn evil, I mean, story telling is FULL characters you start out semi-disliking and they only become more dislikable and contemptable as the story progresses.

On the plus side, at least Miko won't be causing any damage as a Blackguard, since she's shown her intelligence score isn't QUIET low enough to accept a contract with a fiend.

[David Argall]

Main point: This is a comic. Therefore Miko will do what has the most comic potential.

Subpoint: Miko as stuck up paladin had fine comic potential.
Subpoint: Miko as blackguard has limited apparent comic potential.

Therefore: Miko will regain paladin status, possibly by heroic measures in throne room, and will join the Order on a quest for defeating the lich.

[Ave]

But she is something of an ace in the sleeve in the current situation: a powerful high-level fighter with healing abilities would be a terrific asset in the current battle.

Yeah, she should be freed, and surely will be freed. Now that theurgist girl survived the elemental, i have high hopes she'll free Miko somehow (unintentionally).

Forget the healing abilities. Miko won't have them for a long time if ever.

[happyturtle]

Despite my 'religious experience' comment above, I don't see her getting enough enlightenment from prayer and introspection to make any changes in her direction possible. She had the opportunity to notice that the 'evil twin did it' defense by the OOTS actually had a basis, and gather more information, but basically ignored it. Instead, she's using this time to knit together all her conspiracy theories about Roy, Shojo, and the gods testing her into something internally consistent.

I don't think she'll be redeemed or go blackguard. Her new delusion synthesis will have enough good in it to keep the evil outsiders from wanting her, and enough evil in it to keep her from atonement for a loooong time.

[Setra]

:miko: Please gods make everyone die, amen.

[Dusk_Rider]

Miko is too proud to atone (I didn't do anything wrong!). She still believes herself to be a champion of good, and therefore wouldn't associate with an evil outsider. So she'll just be stuck as a fallen paladin forever. I think the only way she will change is if the gods specifically tell her she has done something wrong, and they won't talk to her.

[Gez]

She's not praying, she's brooding. The whole world is unjust, and the only thing she asks from the gods is guidance to purge the world of evil, finding how to righteously kill everyone and destroy everything.

The defining character traits of Miko are bloodthirsty zeal (remember the first thing we ever saw her say, back when she was still "blue boy"? "My blades shall drink their blood!" or something like that), lack of remorse (see her comment after she killed the Dad and Daughter bandit leaders), and the total incapacity for questionning herself and accepting that she could be wrong; also known as "chosen one syndrome".

I wouldn't be surprised if she becomes a blackguard, not out of revolt against the gods, but because she ends up convincing herself that the whole world is evil and that it's the gods' will that it shall be undone by freeing the Snarl to destroy all the unworthy. Like a more extreme version of the Flood, and without Noah's Ark.

[BobTheDog]

:miko: O Gods, allow Hinjo to see that he was mistaken and realize the Order of the Stick are evil henchmen of the lich Xykon, and allow me to smite each and everyone of them. Twice.

[slayerx]

Actually, I'd say that Miko's going further down the dark path of evil is pretty much inevitable if she keeps to her current beliefs. It's the rationalization that's the important part. I suspect she will continue to get worse while insisting all the while that she is the Only True Warrior of Light Left In The World(tm).

Well the thing is, i don't think she can actually become evil unless she actually excepts that she is evil... if in her mind she still beleives she is good then she will never become evil. If she ends up taking evil actions but has only good intentions then the most she could regress to would be neutral. To actually become evil she would have to admit and believe she is evil, which is so far something miko will not do

[jindra34]

Well the thing is, i don't think she can actually become evil unless she actually excepts that she is evil... if in her mind she still beleives she is good then she will never become evil. If she ends up taking evil actions but has only good intentions then the most she could regress to would be neutral. To actually become evil she would have to admit and believe she is evil, which is so far something miko will not do

nope because alignment is completely objective in DnD

[Eriol]

She had the opportunity to notice that the 'evil twin did it' defense by the OOTS actually had a basis, and gather more information, but basically ignored it.
Well that's a random factor I've never considered before: how much "talk" occurred in prison between the members of the Linear Guild, and how much of it did Miko notice enough to listen to? I don't mean accept as fact, but at least figure out how the Linear Guild factored into it? She has at least definitely heard the name from Nale himself, and seen that he associates with a fiend. That at least is proof that at the least Elan & Roy were telling (at least part of) the truth.

Then there's the whole "boy I hope Xykon gets this place good, er EVIL!" thing that the fellow prisoners might have been talking about. Even if she was meditating, and trying to block most of it out, depending on the amount of time they'd been talking, she should have had at least PART of a clue that the OOTS locked up people in company with a fiend, and were (probably) trying to defend the city itself. How much she believes? That's a function of her level of paranoia, which while it's pretty high, eventually ANYBODY can start to see that the OOTS is NOT working for Xykon. But in the end, she needs to realize it. It can't be forced.


As for the whole "she can't be evil unless she admits it" I don't think that's true at all. Good intentions with horrible actions over and over and over again doesn't equal Good, or even Neutral. Heck, even Neutral intentions with evil over, and over, and over, is still evil. So while I think Blackguard is out of the realm of possibility for somebody "not completely realizing they're evil" since that class is an embodiment of the evil ideal, she could still be evil while perceiving that she's Good.

[MReav]

Better weapons with which to take Roy on.

[Alysar]

Miko is praying to the 12 Gods for guidance.

Regardless of whether she receives said guidance, she will proceed to do whatever the hell she wants anyway.

[Raven T.]

I've learned in a short time here that random speculation about the direction is pointless, as it will all be explained in due time.

I could not tell you what she's praying for...or if she is even praying in the first place. However, I'd like to weigh in on the good vs. evil debate that has been going on.

I could see her going Blackguard, but I doubt she would. She has a very distinct view of what is write and wrong and she realizes that Blackguard=evil. Yes, she's misguided. She acted without attaining all the information and violated her code as such. If I had to map her alignment, even before her fall, I would put her at LN. I could see her atonement (voluntary or inadvertently through service) involving the Order, possibly taking her as a ward/charge as they go to defend Girard's Gate.

[Shatteredtower]

Dear Twelve Gods,

Thank you for the lovely tan trim on my outfit. Unfortunately, the wardrobe change appears to have disrupted my holy connection with you, as I have been unable to access the powers that enable me to serve you appropriately.

Clearly, this is Greenhilt's fault. If you would be so kind as to deliver this message -- preferably etched onto the hide of that halfling I told you about earlier (please refer to my previous prayer) -- to Hinjo, so that he might escape whatever enchantments the Order of the Stick has placed him under (no doubt the working of that power-mad elf I mentioned in the prayer I offered before the one about the halfling -- and after that other prayer about the halfling come to think of it), that I might render the righteous vengeance due to you upon the head of Greenhilt.

Your obedient and devoted servant,
Miko Miyazaki.

P.S. Please allow me the honour of smiting the halfling in your names.

[holywhippet]

Something to remember, when she was asked if she really was a fallen paladin she insisted that she wasn't. It could mean that she's still in denial or she just doesn't want to give her enemies the satisfaction of seeing her cast down. It's hard to say what she's doing: meditating, praying or soul searching. The way she dealt with Sabine suggests she isn't interested in turning to darkness. I suspect that her stubbornness which made her fall in the first place would prevent her from going over to evil.

[Demented]

:miko:
Dear Shojo,
If you had just bought me that pony I asked for when I was eight, this would never have happened.
<3,
Miko

[Alchemistmerlin]

Hopefully she's praying that she'll have a quick but gruesome death.

I mean, that's what I'm praying happens to her.

[Cybaster]

Three words I can see in Miko's future: "Sword-chucks, yo." XD

I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Probably at this point, the most surprising (and redeeming) thing Miko can do is realize --- if ever --- that she doesn't deserve to be a Paladin again and was a mere three inches away from becoming a Blackguard and turning herself into the next Arthas Menethil; That's pretty much how close she was to Sabine when Miko snapped her neck, anyway. :P Being forced to, and then willingly helping the Stick as a Fighter/Monk without Bonus Feats throughout the rest of the webcomic...well, Miko doesn't completely suck by the way she held off both Roy and Hinjo right after killing Shojo, in fact she'd probably do fairly well.

If Miko ever gets atoned, it'd likely happen only after the whole webcomic ends, and off-panel.

If not, she should probably just die and be put to rest. I'm thinking a Disintegrate spell from Xykon backed up by a Support Disintegrate Attack from Redcloak... (or failing that, maybe a Hydrogen Elemental? :smallcool: )

[Alfryd]

Regardless of whether she receives said guidance, she will proceed to do whatever the hell she wants anyway.
Please distinguish objectively between 'decide to' and 'want'.

However, the last major decision Miko made was to try and cut down the head of her order and leader of the city, (incidentally, a fellow paladin who had bent over backward to try to talk her down peacefully,) for no particularly logical reason. It would have been trivial to deal nonlethal damage to Hinjo or simply exit the arena. This does not bode well.

Then, of course, she's rejected every habit of thought or respect for institutions that made her meaningfully Lawful in the first place. My money's on TN for the forseeeable future.

I suspect that her stubbornness which made her fall in the first place would prevent her from going over to evil.
And I suspect her wilful self-delusion is the only thing keeping her from commiting seppuku. I mean, think about it. Short of eating babies, she's done essentially the worst possible thing a Paladin in service to her lawful Lord could do. And kind of screwed over the entire city in the process, or gave it her best shot.
Miko is gonna have one hell of a guilt trip if she's ever restored to proper mental function. Which may partly explain why her mind *isn't* functioning.


She had the opportunity to notice that the 'evil twin did it' defense by the OOTS actually had a basis, and gather more information, but basically ignored it.
Gosh, because we all know interviewing Xykon worked out so very well for her.

...eventually ANYBODY can start to see that the OOTS is NOT working for Xykon.
I don't see what evidence Miko has available thus far to suggest the OotS are defending the city. Unless she looked out the window. But that's crazy talk.

If Miko ever gets atoned, it'd likely happen only after the whole webcomic ends, and off-panel.
If she's redeemed at all I imagine it will be plot-relevant enough to merit a panel here and there.

[SteveMB]

I don't see what evidence Miko has available thus far to suggest the OotS are defending the city. Unless she looked out the window.

Everybody knows that a lich sorcerer can cast illusions as easily as regular people figure out which foot the big shoe goes on.

[Kesnit]

I think :miko: will go Blackguard, but not intentionally.

She doesn't admit that what she did was wrong and that she fell. She's convinced that losing her powers is just some plot of :xykon: and OotS. So if some Evil power takes advantage of her delusions and offers her her powers back, she would probably take them and feel vindicated. BG powers are similar to Paladin ones...

[Alysar]

Please distinguish objectively between 'decide to' and 'want'.


For Miko, there isn't really a difference. Although, she believes that there is.

[Thorin]

She is praying for a big-sized well-roasted oax sandwich
Nha; i suposse she is praying for guidance

[dakiwiboid]

She's praying for this teeshirt: http://images.cafepress.com/product/87491097v11_240x240_Front_Color-Navy.jpg!:smallwink:

[Tola]

Whatever it is, she's taking a VERY long time to do it: she's been in that exact pose, unmoving, since the Blackguard offer, and that was some time ago.

I don't think she's even eaten or drunk anything.

The oddest part is the half-smile she's got.

[Xerxos]

I would guess that she's praying for overall guidance and advice. I'm thinking that at some point she'll ask a question, something wacky will happen at the same time (which will probably be Elan's fault), she'll think that's her answer from the Gods, and she'll become a Blackguard shortly thereafter.

Yeah, I think she's praying for guidance, but I don't think Elan is going to get her to the dark side.

More likely something dark is going to answer her prayers. Either a evil God or a Outsider. Probably something Lawful Evil. She will mistake that entity for the real 12 gods and it will give her her powers back (as blackguard). At least that's what I guess.

[Freelance Henchman]

Whatever it is, she's taking a VERY long time to do it: she's been in that exact pose, unmoving, since the Blackguard offer, and that was some time ago.

I don't think she's even eaten or drunk anything.

The oddest part is the half-smile she's got.

It looks more like she's chanting or murmuring to me.

[Atheist_Cleric]

Anything. She's praying for anything, any reply, any event, anything that might confirm that the gods are still listening to her. What Miko is looking for right now is any kind of confirmation that the gods "plan" for her she mentioned when attacking Hinjo is still in effect. The worst part is that all it'll take is some explosion or scared silly trainee guard opening the door to her cell and she'll believe its the gods telling her to resume her mission. Mainly I think she's praying to pass the time; her confidence in her own delusion is very strong, she probably believes that something will happen, the gods will provide etc etc, and praying allows her to make the time pass, block out distractions, and keep up the appearance of devotion to the the Gods that have, despite her beliefs, abandoned her.

[Freelance Henchman]

, and keep up the appearance of devotion to the the Gods that have, despite her beliefs, abandoned her.

This is where I don't quite get what those gods expect of their Paladins. I can't imagine it's enough to just keep up an appearance of devotion to get the various Paladin benefits. As borderline Good as Miko may have been, it was apparently Good enough for the gods right up to the point where she struck down Shojo.

[Emperor Ing]

She is praying that the gods dont smite her down due to her hippocracy. But the gods got a nice shiny little battle station with a turbolaser with her name on it! :smallannoyed: Why dont i?:smallannoyed:

[ElfLad]

"For the love of-- Banjo, will you at least listen to me?"

[Ethdred]

Meditating as in emptying your mind and not thinking any thoughts? Hm. Possible, I guess.

That's not the only way of meditating. She may very well be thinking about what's happened recently and what she should do about it.

Slightly off topic, but since people are talking about her redemption or whatever - how will that be affected by the fact there's only one surviving Sapphire Guard (Hinjo)? Or at least I think there is!

[Alfryd]

For Miko, there isn't really a difference. Although, she believes that there is.
I don't get what the difference is in general.
"I didn't *want* to eat at McDonalds! I just decided to!"


...praying allows her to make the time pass, block out distractions, and keep up the appearance of devotion to the the Gods that have, despite her beliefs, abandoned her.
This is true, but nonetheless, she will at least attempt to fill up the time with some effort at rational analysis of her situation.
Not that this implies she'll succeed in any form or fashion.


Slightly off topic, but since people are talking about her redemption or whatever - how will that be affected by the fact there's only one surviving Sapphire Guard (Hinjo)? Or at least I think there is!
O-chul, Hinjo, and most of the lower-level members of the organisation, plus those away on missions outside the city, could well still be alive.

[blademaster42]

She won't be praying for atonement, she's in denial (not to be confused with the river in Egypt) She will never accept that she was wrong. All her life, she was taught to do the bidding of the 12 gods, and that they were always right, which meant she was always right. I assume she used to be a very good person, by most definitions of the term. She probably didn't leap to conclusions so much, but rather, asked her superiors first for nearly everything. They got annoyed and told her to figure it out. And she got it right and liked it. Now she's all hopped up on "I'm always right!" that there is no room to question her actions.

She's going to get out, and either accidentally become a BlackGuard in a futile attempt to regain her powers, or Someone, most likely Roy, will slap some sense into her. And then, she'll like him. Kind of like this:

:roy: I thought you were in prison!
:miko: I was released by the favor of the gods.
:roy: Oh, really. Is that why your paladin powers are still gone
:miko: :furious: No! that's because I have yet to kill you for your sins!
:roy: Oh, man...*holds her by the shoulders* look. Do you want to serve the 12 gods?
:miko: Of course I do!
:roy: Then swallow your pride, and admit you were wrong!
:miko: I...
:roy: If you don't believe me, Hinjo and I have a reasonable explanation for the whole thing. If you don't care, not my problem. You can just go on deluding yourself. *leaves*
:miko:... I think I was wrong about him...

This would of course happen after the battle and a raise spell.

[Freelance Henchman]

Someone, most likely Roy, will slap some sense into her. And then, she'll like him. Kind of like this:

Except for that Roy being dead thing, I guess it could happen. (oh, you did say Raise spell, sorry)

If anyone, Durkon seems the most likely candidate to even attempt that.

[Alfryd]

Then swallow your pride, and admit you were wrong!
If Miko were prepared to be that reasonable, she wouldn't be in her current fix.
It ain't gonna happen in the near future.

Plus, no-one has yet provided a plausible explanation to Miko or Hinjo for how the Order escaped Xykon. Given that they testified to completely destroying the Lich in the first place, it does kind of throw their credibility into question.

[Dausuul]

You know, some of this thread has been half-joking, and that's fine, but in the end I do hope that they come to a resolution to her character that involves more than something simple. You could say that Miko's been a relatively flat character so far, but whichever way she goes, I hope that it is NOT clichéd, or easy, or anything like that. If she falls, make it 100% plausible (via her beliefs changing I mean), or if she seeks the path of redemption, make her actually believe it and grow, not just "pressing the reset button" and keeping her on the edge of falling like she used to be quite often.

Uh, she already fell. Quite believably, I might add.

Unless by "falling," you mean "turning blackguard."


Well the thing is, i don't think she can actually become evil unless she actually excepts that she is evil... if in her mind she still beleives she is good then she will never become evil. If she ends up taking evil actions but has only good intentions then the most she could regress to would be neutral. To actually become evil she would have to admit and believe she is evil, which is so far something miko will not do

Not at all. Lots of evil people consciously believe they're doing good. A veneer of self-delusion and self-justification does not change the underlying reasons for Miko's actions, which are pretty much "everybody who hurts my feelings or opposes me for any reason needs to die."

[Yeril]

Probaly praying for insipration, I doubt shes gonner go blackguard and I doubt shes going to atone any time soon, my prediction is shes gonner be a renegade paladin, fighting for good but also (stunning) kicking roy in the crotch every chance she gets.

like the green ranger or somthing. a good guy at heart.

[katana2665]

Redemption (redamntion)....lost cause, she's a wacko....

[Rincewind]

As a Miko-fan, I'm hoping its along the lines of "Sorry 12 gods, I screwed up royally and regret this terrible deed, please give me a chance to make good".

I'm *afraid* it may be more like "Surely this is all a plot by Evil forces that pretended to be the 12 gods and took away my Paladin abilities, so give'em back please kthnx bye".

She's praying for a suitable husband and a beautiful son.

[Eriol]

make her actually believe it and grow, not just "pressing the reset button" and keeping her on the edge of falling like she used to be quite often.
Uh, she already fell. Quite believably, I might add.

Unless by "falling," you mean "turning blackguard."
I mean if she achieves redemption and regains Paladin powers that she should not be the same type of Paladin as she was before, and thus not the type to continue to be on the edge of falling, but rather like Hinjo where she would be nowhere close to falling.

Of course she's already fallen. I'm talking about after any redemption.

[truemane]

In any case, I'm really looking forward to more Miko. The strips where she and the other characters debated absolute vs relative morality were among my very favourites. I found the strip where she finally erred and fell to be very moving.

[Freelance Henchman]

In any case, I'm really looking forward to more Miko. The strips where she and the other characters debated absolute vs relative morality were among my very favourites. I found the strip where she finally erred and fell to be very moving.

She really is a fascinating character (not the same as a well-liked character, as can be seen on the boards :smallsmile: ). I'm amazed how often she steals the scene even when the main villains or even the protagonists/PCs are there.

[MReav]

She really is a fascinating character (not the same as a well-liked character, as can be seen on the boards :smallsmile: ). I'm amazed how often she steals the scene even when the main villains or even the protagonists/PCs are there.

Or particularly when she's in a single panel...

[Freelance Henchman]

Or particularly when she's in a single panel...

I guess that may be because her fans are as obsessive-compulsive as she is :smallcool:

[truemane]

Are you criticizing those who like Paladins?

I don't know....sounds pretty evil to me...

Might be some smiting in order here....

[Freelance Henchman]

Are you criticizing those who like Paladins?

I don't know....sounds pretty evil to me...

Might be some smiting in order here....

As I said in the first post, I am a Miko-fan. Never would I dare to criticize Miko OUCH ARGH STOP SMITING ME YOU INSANE WENCH!?!?!!!

[truemane]

As I said in the first post, I am a Miko-fan. Never would I dare to criticize Miko OUCH ARGH STOP SMITING ME YOU INSANE WENCH!?!?!!!


HA HA HA HA HA HA!

All your Smite are belong to us!

[MReav]

HA HA HA HA HA HA!

All your Smite are belong to us!

No, all your prays are belong to us!

[Zeku]

In my mind, the most plausible positive outcome is that she truly repents of her overzealous tendecies, but doesn't actually reveal that to anyone. She continues to pretend to be Ms. Insane, while actually being good (and calm) in a genuine sense. It wouldn't be her personal pride, so much as "not stirring the pot needlessly."

And the most plausible negative outcome is she is forced to take Blackguard status to do what she has personally decided is right with full effectiveness. What makes this possibility so interesting is that she's not an Anakin, hopelessly a victim of her emotions and need for validation. If she went this route, her character retains a very complete open-endedness, a freedom of choice that defies a precise exposition of character.

[Aquillion]

She'll need at least a sizeable Atonement spell and (probably) a hefy quest before THAT happens. That's what makes me think she's going to go bad. Someone will offer her the chance to atone, and she'll be unable to admit that what she did was wrong.I don't know. The SRD says:
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. It isn't clear whether it's giving atonement as an example of how to atone, or as the only valid way to do so. It's possible to interpret the RAW as saying that a Paladin can be redeemed through their own actions.

[Ridureyu]

She's praying:

"I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And she started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and they all started jumpin up and down with her and they was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on them, sent them down the hall, said, "You're our girl."

[truemane]

It isn't clear whether it's giving atonement as an example of how to atone, or as the only valid way to do so. It's possible to interpret the RAW as saying that a Paladin can be redeemed through their own actions.

You are correct. The more flavourful text of the PHB mentions the Atonement spell, and mentions that a quest to prove her good intentions might be in order, but there is no specified mechanic by which a Fallen-Paladin gets Re-Paladined. Although Hinjo mentions Atonement specifically.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html

1st and 2nd Ed. were both FAR more clear on how it was to be done, but then they were both more restrictive on what the Code of Conduct required as well.

I was just thinking that Miko's biggest flaw is pride. So, if she were to go see a cleric, and ask to be redeemed, and the cleric says: Sure, just go and muck the royal stables for a year to prove your remorse, she'd probably snap on the guy. And then she's convince herself that everyone's against her, and everyone hates her, and how's a poor ex-Paladin going to get by in a cruel, cruel world?

And then it's BLACKGUARD time!

[Adeptus]

I think :miko: will go Blackguard, but not intentionally.

She doesn't admit that what she did was wrong and that she fell. She's convinced that losing her powers is just some plot of :xykon: and OotS. So if some Evil power takes advantage of her delusions and offers her her powers back, she would probably take them and feel vindicated. BG powers are similar to Paladin ones...

This is my expectation too. It's certainly how I would GM it.

[Magistrate]

I've found that the most current and popular speculation on the forums is gleefully taken by Rich and done the exact opposite of, such as Celia' pendant when Roy was falling to his death, or the Linear Guild freeing Miko and allowing her to become a Blackguard ( instead she breaks Sabine's neck and Nale leaves her behind intentionally ), Haley's stray arrow and so on. I would not be surprised if Rich read these forums thoroughly and played his next comic by ear just to further confound all of you. You guys practically supply him with his own material at this point.

[MReav]

I've found that the most current and popular speculation on the forums is gleefully taken by Rich and done the exact opposite of, such as Celia' pendant when Roy was falling to his death, or the Linear Guild freeing Miko and allowing her to become a Blackguard ( instead she breaks Sabine's neck and Nale leaves her behind intentionally ), Haley's stray arrow and so on. I would not be surprised if Rich read these forums thoroughly and played his next comic by ear just to further confound all of you. You guys practically supply him with his own material at this point.

I disagree. I think Rich has a very clear idea on how things are going to play out. However, I do think he reads the forums, but rather than spite people, he simply makes it expressly clear how he intended things to work out, and gives the people who felt otherwise a nod to the contrary.

And I base this on no provable evidence whatsoever.

[truemane]

Acutally...


Q: Wouldn.t it be cool if X, Y, and Z happened? You should totally do that.

A: Thanks, but I prefer to create my own plots. In fact, I try not to read anything where people suggest upcoming plot ideas because I hate it when people guess what is going to happen. I feel the uncontrollable urge to change what happens, just to prove them wrong. Petty? Probably.

So he says he doesn't read the forums, but he feels the urge to change things when he does. Of course the RAW ("Rich as Written") doesn't say that he DOES change things, just that he feels the urge to change them.

So there you.

Hope that helped.

[Magistrate]

That is a relief. I'm glad he still has the whole story planned out to be executed as he sees fit. It's bloody annoying to see artist/authors deriding people via their web comics all the time instead of putting up anything thoughtful or funny.

[MReav]

She's praying for a Black Symbiote.

Hey, Sonic Vulnerability may be a shaft, but not many people have Sonic attacks it seems.

[squidthingy]

I think Miko's just pretending to pray to keep up the act of being a fallen paladin, soon, she will cast of the guise and smite down her enemys while screaming 'by fire be purged' in a classic paladin badass way:miko:

[Iranon]

I believe she is genuinely asking for guidance, but little will come from it.

Even if Miko uncovers the truth about the events leading up to her summary execution of Shojo, she doesn't seem the type for contrition. She will see it that she made a morally valid but ill-informed decision under circumstances that didn't allow for time to ponder things more thoroughly. And conventional storytelling rarely allows for redemption without a prior breakdown (as the word catharsis itself shows. Yes, I am a dork.).

Another thing that might prevent her from getting back into the gods' good graces (well, regaining full paladin status at least) is her alignment. While she does her best to be good, that isn't necessarily Good. For example, it seems she has little use for mercy (on the grounds that it is fundamentally unjust, and that justice is more important than kindness).
I'm not saying her attitude is inconsistent with LG but it's forced... living up to those ideals would mean constant self-denial.

Openly embracing Evil seems far out, and I don't really see evidence for a downward slide as her moral compass seemed pretty consistent so far even if it's hard to peg at an official alignment.

[drKarling]

I believe she's fallen asleep on her knees, dreaming about wringing Belkar's neck, mumbling "Why, you little..!" in her sleep.
Just put a Z above her head in #458 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) and it all fits perfectly.

[Eriol]

Even if Miko uncovers the truth about the events leading up to her summary execution of Shojo, she doesn't seem the type for contrition. She will see it that she made a morally valid but ill-informed decision under circumstances that didn't allow for time to ponder things more thoroughly. And conventional storytelling rarely allows for redemption without a prior breakdown (as the word catharsis itself shows. Yes, I am a dork.).
I don't see this as "Incontrovertible Proof" or anything, but Miko's reaction to Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) in 202 at least puts out the idea that faced with rational evidence, she CAN see the facts before her. In that case, it was the clear showing of how just holding the crown changes the detected alignment. Now I'm not saying that it's necessarily possible to give AS CLEAR evidence to her that she was as mistaken about the Order in general, but it does show a very clear case where she was A. Wrong, and B. Able to see the evidence and change her mind.

Basically, it shows that while most of the time she's a Zealot, she doesn't always blatantly disregard evidence in front of her. Occasionally yes, but I just put her as somebody that isn't necessarily beyond reason.

[Froody]

I would agree with Iranon here... praying for guidance, but with no results.

[David Argall]

Quote:
Originally Posted by truemane
In any case, I'm really looking forward to more Miko. The strips where she and the other characters debated absolute vs relative morality were among my very favourites. I found the strip where she finally erred and fell to be very moving.


She really is a fascinating character (not the same as a well-liked character, as can be seen on the boards :smallsmile: ). I'm amazed how often she steals the scene even when the main villains or even the protagonists/PCs are there.

These are the sort of reason Miko will likely recover paladin status and join the party. She is a very useful character.

[The UnderKing]

I think Miko's just pretending to pray to keep up the act of being a fallen paladin, soon, she will cast of the guise and smite down her enemys while screaming 'by fire be purged' in a classic paladin badass way:miko:

What how dare you quote Jorn Blackthorn! Umm even though he was mostly just a copy of several other paladins. (We're in a campaign together) Anyway I believe she is praying for some kind of sign that she was right about Shojo. And when she's told she's wrong she will go berserk or accept that she was wrong. I'm for the berserk option.:smallsmile:

[Gaelbert]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but I think she is in a dreamscape with her gods. She is on a quest for atonement, of which we'll see later in a flashback. She gets out of jail after finishing the dream quest and being atoned, and goes into the throne room, where she sees Xykon and Redcloak. She moves towards Xykon and he says that she is just useless now without her paladin abilities and rants on (he probably saw it on the teevo.) Then, Miko goes up and smites him.

[the_tick_rules]

to understand how this is part of the god's plans for her. Too bad they're not taking her calls anymore.

[Aquillion]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but I think she is in a dreamscape with her gods. She is on a quest for atonement, of which we'll see later in a flashback. She gets out of jail after finishing the dream quest and being atoned, and goes into the throne room, where she sees Xykon and Redcloak. She moves towards Xykon and he says that she is just useless now without her paladin abilities and rants on (he probably saw it on the teevo.) Then, Miko goes up and smites him.No, we have it confirmed that Xykon and Redcloak don't know what her brown cloak means (they were puzzled about it when they saw her on the Teevo, then ignored her once people started talking about the gate.)

And I think she might be redeemed eventually, but I don't think it'd happen so soon... I think, perhaps, that having the stuffing beaten out of her by Redcloak or Xykon or even someone weaker at a vital momen might force her to see her situation and realize the error of her ways. (She lost to Roy and Hinjo, but that was doubtless, to her eyes, sort of a low blow, and that was still at "zero hour" when everything fell apart for her so it's not like she would have been thinking straight.) The scene where she actually feels fear is almost necessary given the focus on her immunity to it before, too.

[SurlySeraph]

:miko:: Twelve Gods, bless this thy hand grenade...

[Freelance Henchman]

:miko:: Twelve Gods, bless this thy hand grenade...

... for whence after I counteth to five, er three, the filthy halfling shall surely snuff it.

[Twilight Jack]

:miko:: Twelve Gods, bless this thy hand grenade...

That with it thou mayst blow the minions of Xykon to tiny bits, in thy mercy. . .

[Tola]

smite down her enemys while screaming 'by fire be purged' in a classic paladin badass way

I think you're confusing Paladin and Blood Mage. :smallsmile:

No, the main(or A main: there likely have been many) Paladin fighting quote is "Strike with great vengeance!"

[theinsulabot]

Man i could really go for some treasure type O right now....

[dakiwiboid]

She's praying for healing for the arthritis in her knees. The poor girl is obviously in too much pain to open her eyes and too creaky to get up! It's all those days on horseback chasing the OoTS without rest, sleeping in cheap inns or on the ground, not eating right, etc. etc.

[squidthingy]

:miko:: Twelve Gods, bless this thy hand grenade...

would that make it a 'holy hand grenade', that's right I just quoted monty python

[squidthingy]

smite down her enemys while screaming 'by fire be purged' in a classic paladin badass way

I think you're confusing Paladin and Blood Mage. :smallsmile:

No, the main(or A main: there likely have been many) Paladin fighting quote is "Strike with great vengeance!"

What how dare you quote Jorn Blackthorn! Umm even though he was mostly just a copy of several other paladins. (We're in a campaign together) Anyway I believe she is praying for some kind of sign that she was right about Shojo. And when she's told she's wrong she will go berserk or accept that she was wrong. I'm for the berserk option.:smallsmile:
I think that should clear everything up

[Daisemiin]

Wouldnt that be ridiculously petty? I mean, theyre gods, it would take actual effort *not* to hear the prayers of someone who is obviously a fanatic (if misguided) believer.

If Thor is any guide to the Gods behavior and capabilities, they could just as easily be too busy debating the Lost finale on Forums somewhere.

[Freelance Henchman]

If Thor is any guide to the Gods behavior and capabilities, they could just as easily be too busy debating the Lost finale on Forums somewhere.

I could imagine Loki from the crayon drawing timeline lying on a sofa eating Cheetos and completely high on Mana during the entire story line. They would have to explain everything to him after everything was over and he was at least a little sober.