How To: Full Wizard Casting and 16.5 BAB!

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

I was pondering Wizard gishes lately and discovered a way to get full Wizard casting and 16+ BAB in 20 levels! This requires early entry tricks, flaws, and writing a background where you're probably more of a hero than you already are mechanically at level 1. Still, it's at least theoretically possible!

I assume for this build that Heighten Spell + Metamagic School Focus works more than once per spell, thereby allowing me to cast level 4 spells at character level 1.

Any Good LA0 Aasimar Transmuter1 (0.5 BAB)/Ruathar3 (2.75 BAB)/Raumathari Battlemage3 (5 BAB)/Dragonslayer1 (6 BAB)/Spellsword1 (7 BAB)/Abjurant Champion 5 (12 BAB)/Sacred Exorcist6 (16.5 BAB)

1: Combat Casting, Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus, [Scribe Scroll OR Fighter Bonus Feat]
3: EWP: You Bastard! Sword
6: Dodge,

(Take what you want from here feat-wise.)

Build Requirements
-13 STR: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
-13 DEX: Dodge
-Fractional BAB stacking
-A willing GM
-Some LA0 source of martial weapon proficiency (I went with LA0 Aasimar, AKA 'Savage Aasimar')
-Good Alignment: Sacred Exorcist

Build Negatives
-Your martial abilities bloom late. You're basically a Wizard who minors in martial prowess. Even a single level of Crusader or Warblade would help you tremendously at level 1 or 2 just to get you some noteworthy martial abilities.

-Despite taking a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, you're probably better off as an archer and caster until [i]polymorph et al.

-You're more MAD than most Wizards. You, for some odd reason, absolutely require 13 STR for EWP: BS.
Build Positives
+You're a frickin' Wizard with a base caster level = to your character level! You could light all your feats on fire and still be awesome!

+You have more skill points and a broader skill list than most Wizards. You also have more HP (larger hit dice on most levels) and higher base saves

[(Un)Inspired]

You know Wizard 10/Rainbow Servant 10 has full 20 levels of Wizard casting and 20 bab right?

[Crake]

You know Wizard 10/Rainbow Servant 10 has full 20 levels of Wizard casting and 20 bab right?

Or just arcane disciple for any of the domains that have divine power, and then just craft a wand and put it in your sword with a wand chamber. Or just ahve high UMD.

Then get some levels in incantatrix and persist it.

[Troacctid]

Or just arcane disciple for any of the domains that have divine power, and then just craft a wand and put it in your sword with a wand chamber. Or just ahve high UMD.

Then get some levels in incantatrix and persist it.

Or, since you're already a Sacred Exorcist, just switch your race to Illumian (naenhoon) and persist it that way.

[Uncle Pine]

You know Wizard 10/Rainbow Servant 10 has full 20 levels of Wizard casting and 20 bab right?

Awww, I was going to say that!
Actually, it's slightly better than that: Wizard 1/Rainbow Servant 10 has full Wizard casting and full BAB from 11th level onward. Fill the other levels to taste.

[(Un)Inspired]

Yup. Full BABies and CL 20 on a wizard is pretty easy.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, it's slightly better than that: Wizard 1/Rainbow Servant 10 has full Wizard casting and full BAB from 11th level onward. Fill the other levels to taste.
How are you going to get into Rainbow Servant, requiring the ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells, at level 2?

[Uncle Pine]

How are you going to get into Rainbow Servant, requiring the ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells, at level 2?

Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Earth Spell: heighten a Sanctum cantrip inside your sanctum. Voilà, 3rd level arcane spells.
I also heard about aa way to do it with taint, but I'm not familiar with it because my group doesn't use taint rules.

[Endarire]

Yes, divine power works. My version still grants 16 BAB (at L20) even without magic. So there.

The race (LA0 Aasimar) is mostly locked in for this build due to needing proficiency with martial weapons for Raumathari Battlemage.

[Uncle Pine]

If you're interested, the local gish handbook provides a bunch of other standard gish builds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16674510&postcount=9), most of which don't require spells to work.

[Samalpetey]

Yes, divine power works. My version still grants 16 BAB (at L20) even without magic. So there.

The race (LA0 Aasimar) is mostly locked in for this build due to needing proficiency with martial weapons for Raumathari Battlemage.

If by 'LA0 Aasimar' you mean lesser aasimar, that doesn't work. Lesser planetouched are humanoid, not outsiders. If you mean you just used LA buyoff, carry on

[ben-zayb]

Thing is, any wizard spellcasting level above 17th is just gravy.

[Troacctid]

If by 'LA0 Aasimar' you mean lesser aasimar, that doesn't work. Lesser planetouched are humanoid, not outsiders. If you mean you just used LA buyoff, carry on

He means the Savage Progression version here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a), which is a legit outsider.

Tiefling or Neraph would also work.

[Rubik]

A single level of ardent with the Magic Mantle, Supernatural Transformation (Psionics), and lots of StP erudite/Psychic Chirurgery abuse can net you full psionic manifesting, full arcane casting, and full divine casting all three. You just need to boost the hell out of your Wisdom score to get lots of power points to manifest with.

[Troacctid]

A single level of ardent with the Magic Mantle, Supernatural Transformation (Psionics), and lots of StP erudite/Psychic Chirurgery abuse can net you full psionic manifesting, full arcane casting, and full divine casting all three. You just need to boost the hell out of your Wisdom score to get lots of power points to manifest with.

What is this "Psionics" ability you're taking Supernatural Transformation for? Ardents don't have any such class ability, as far as I'm aware. Their class abilities are Power Points/Day, Powers Known, Mantles, and Assume Psionic Mantle, none of which are valid choices for Supernatural Transformation.

[Rubik]

What is this "Psionics" ability you're taking Supernatural Transformation for? Ardents don't have any such class ability, as far as I'm aware. Their class abilities are Power Points/Day, Powers Known, Mantles, and Assume Psionic Mantle, none of which are valid choices for Supernatural Transformation.Every sample psionic character and monster has their manifesting listed under "Psionics," which is a Psi-Like ability, by definition. Magic Mantle equates that with Spell-Like ability, qualifying it for use with Supernatural Transformation.

[Troacctid]

Every sample psionic character and monster has their manifesting listed under "Psionics," which is a Psi-Like ability, by definition. Magic Mantle equates that with Spell-Like ability, qualifying it for use with Supernatural Transformation.

I just checked Complete Psionic and the Expanded Psionics Handbook. The sample Ardent has no such ability listed, nor do any of the sample prestige class characters. Some of the monsters have "Psi-like abilities", but that is obviously plural, AKA multiple abilities, and Supernatural Transformation requires you to choose just one. Some of the statblocks in EPH have "Powers known", but again, we already knew Ardents have that as a class ability, and it's not marked as (Sp) or (Ps). The only statblocks I can find with "Psionics" as an ability are ones like the Mind Flayer, for whom it consists of several different spell-like abilities, not just one.

[dascarletm]

Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Earth Spell: heighten a Sanctum cantrip inside your sanctum. Voilà, 3rd level arcane spells.

4 feats at level one? That works well assuming the variant flaw rule is in place.... otherwise.... :smallwink:

[Troacctid]

4 feats at level one? That works well assuming the variant flaw rule is in place.... otherwise.... :smallwink:

And, for that matter, much more complicated than becoming moderately depraved and getting Eldritch Corruption as a bonus feat for free, which takes no feat slots at all.

[Necroticplague]

And, for that matter, much more complicated than becoming moderately depraved and getting Eldritch Corruption as a bonus feat for free, which takes no feat slots at all.

Dammit, beat me to it. Though I would like to note, Moderate depravity only gives you one bonus feat, so it does still require a feat to meet Eldritch Corruption's prerequisite (or just dive into Severe Corruption for yet another bonus feat, covering the whole cost of early entry).

That being said, 4 feats at first level is doable.

1: Base feat at 1st everyone gets.
2: Human bonus feat.
3: Bonus from selling your soul (you an extra if you lease it instead, I believe, but that's more of a pain).
4: Bonus from being moderately corrupted or depraved.

[dascarletm]

I always wondered is there any rules saying you may start with corruption, or start the game having sold your soul. Of course any DM can say that you did as part of your backstory, but in the vein of a full RAW theoretical discussion...

[Uncle Pine]

And, for that matter, much more complicated than becoming moderately depraved and getting Eldritch Corruption as a bonus feat for free, which takes no feat slots at all.

While it is more complicated, it does have the advantage of not turning your character into a crazy depraved murderhobo, which is especially useful if you're trying to enter a PrC like Rainbow Servant that requires non-Chaotic and non-Evil alignment.

[Necroticplague]

While it is more complicated, it does have the advantage of not turning your character into a crazy depraved murderhobo, which is especially useful if you're trying to enter a PrC like Rainbow Servant that requires non-Chaotic and non-Evil alignment.

Moderate Depravity doesn't turn you into a crazy murderhobo either, and there's nothing that forces tainted characters to be evil. If anything, the vast majority of Depravity symptoms are more a danger to yourself than anyone else. And anyway, you only need it for a couple levels. Once you're in Rainbow Servant it self-qualified from its casting advancement in soon enough time, so you can have your taint cleansed at level 5.

[Troacctid]

Taint registers as evil to a Detect Evil spell, but it doesn't necessarily represent an alignment change, although it might. Heroes of Horror notes (on page 67) that characters with moderate depravity generally won't be Good, but they may be Neutral, which is good enough for Rainbow Servant.

[Zombulian]

What is this "Psionics" ability you're taking Supernatural Transformation for? Ardents don't have any such class ability, as far as I'm aware. Their class abilities are Power Points/Day, Powers Known, Mantles, and Assume Psionic Mantle, none of which are valid choices for Supernatural Transformation.


Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)
The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability

I think this may be what he's referring to.

[ericgrau]

I'm confused why 16 BAB is such a common goal, as if it were the main thing you needed on the melee side. You really want that attack at a -15 to hit that badly? I'd be more concerned about the -4 to all my other attacks. And yeah, high optimization can do almost anything including 20 BAB.

[Zombulian]

I'm confused why 16 BAB is such a common goal, as if it were the main thing you needed on the melee side. You really want that attack at a -15 to hit that badly? I'd be more concerned about the -4 to all my other attacks. And yeah, high optimization can do almost anything including 20 BAB.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4 swings

[Rubik]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4 swingsWhich can be done via medium BAB and Snap Kick. Also Two Weapon Fighting. Also Cleave. Also a bite attack. Also Combat Reflexes.

There are much better ways to get additional attacks than 16+ BAB, and so long as you have a good enough attack bonus to make them hit, you're just about as well off.

The one and only thing is Power Attack bonuses, but so long as you kill what you're hitting, anything more is overkill.

[Zombulian]

Which can be done via medium BAB and Snap Kick. Also Two Weapon Fighting. Also Cleave. Also a bite attack. Also Combat Reflexes.

There are much better ways to get additional attacks than 16+ BAB, and so long as you have a good enough attack bonus to make them hit, you're just about as well off.

The one and only thing is Power Attack bonuses, but so long as you kill what you're hitting, anything more is overkill.

Hence the shruggy. It's just something people aim for, regardless of how effective it is.

[Rubik]

Hence the shruggy. It's just something people aim for, regardless of how effective it is.Power comes wherever you find it, and BAB is one of the least effective forms of it. Sacrificing BAB for something more powerful is worth it, because it is, by far, one of the easiest to make up for.