HELP! First time building a Gunslinger!

[SMac8988]

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Hello all, I have been playing Pathfinder for about a year or two, and this is my first time building a Gunslinger, and was wondering if I could get some advice on my build and any changes you fine folks would encourage.

He is starting at level 1, and I have him set at that point, which a general feat line planned.

He will be switching to duel wielding Double Barrel Pistols soon as I can.

Race: Tiefling
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
Replaced Fiendish Magic with Prehensile Tail to help with reloading.

20 point buy
Str - 8
Dex - 18
Con - 10
Int - 14
Wis - 14
Cha - 12

Feats:

Level 1 - Point Blank Shot
Level 3 - Two Handed Fighting
Level 4 - Rapid Reload
Level 5 - Rapid Shot
Level 7 - Deadly Aim
Level 8 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 9 - Precise Shot
Level 11 - Signature Deed - (Up Close and Deadly)
Level 12 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Traits:
Reactionary
Bloody Mind

Stat Buffs:
Dex - Level 4
Dex - Level 8
Wis - Level 12
Wis - Level 16

First time posting on here, Idk if I did this right... but ya PLEASE HELP!

[Sayt]

My initial reaction is that you want precise shot earlier than that, but with guns firing at touch, you'd actually probably be okay.

You'll want to take Improved TWF before Deadly aim: At that level, Deadly Aim gives you +8 damage, Improved TWF gives you 1d8+4, which is roughly equal, on average, but once you startgetting magic on you guns, the extra attacks becomes better.

Also, IIRC, Up Close and Deadly got errata'd so it can only be done once per round, and isn't reducible?

[Geddy2112]

Tieflings are good gunslingers- If your DM allows variant heritage, asura has better stats and a very good SLA, but stock tiefling is not bad. Consider the beguiling liar instead of taking skilled if you want to be more social. You can take the fabulist feat to get grit points out of combat by bluffing, and that stacks farily well.

I would throw charisma down the well-it is only useful for a couple of skills, and having a slight negative is easily overcome by having a class skill bonus. If your DM is allowing stats past 18 consider maxing dex, if not boost wisdom. 14 intelligence is overkill unless you really like skills. Also, 10 con is scary even being ranged and having a good fort save-a 12 here is better than a 12 cha. I would probably go 8/16/12/12/16/8 before racial mods.

Feats look good, although I would probably want precise shot a bit earlier, depending on your party makeup.

[SMac8988]

Sayt I had read on some sites it got changed, and other said it didn't. Figured keep it for now and see what the DM says. If he says no then ill drop it and go for something else.

Geddy the reason I have the Charisma is because my party has no talker really. We have a goblin Alchemist who just likes blowing stuff up, and a half orc barbarian. I know my Con is low, was hoping I could get either my AC high enough, or get some type of damage reduction at some point. And I went with base Tiefling for the Darkness Ability, since I wasn't much of a fan of the others. But I am going to change from skilled, thank you for that!

My other concern is someone was telling me that firing both barrels of the pistol got turned into a standard action, instead of being able to be used in your attack and full attack action. I can't find it anywhere, so that was another issue I was worried about.

Also is there any feats I should drop or go for later on in the build?

[Geddy2112]

A tiefling gunslinger, goblin alchemist, and half orc barbarian walk into a bar... Screw being a face, if people don't give into your demands your trio can do an utterly unholy amount of damage. Also, you don't need charisma when you get a racial bluff bonus, and a +4 cause you are going to be beguiling liar. An 8 in charisma is a -1 to checks, which is pretty minor in the long run. Even a 6 is just a -2, nothing to be worried about. If you had a 6 cha, 1 rank and bluff and your racial trait, you still have a +6 bluff at level 1. You tell the stories, and let your half orc do the flexing. They get a +2 to intimidate from race, and have it as a class skill. So you lie, then flex, then just level the place. Seriously, a slight bump in cha is nothing in the long run, but more dex or wis will save your bacon more times than you can count.

Also, darkness is a solid SLA so I don't blame you for wanting to keep it. Being a stock tiefling and the extra int means extra skills-I would recommend ranks in sense motive since you are wis based, and since you want to stay true to the adage "can't BS a bs'er"



My other concern is someone was telling me that firing both barrels of the pistol got turned into a standard action, instead of being able to be used in your attack and full attack action. I can't find it anywhere, so that was another issue I was worried about.
The double barrel thing can be done as an attack action as described here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/pistol-double-barreled) but note the penalty. So you can still full round double barrel multi shot if you can reload fast enough. With a tail and your alchemist friend providing alchemical cartridges I don't think that will be an issue



Also is there any feats I should drop or go for later on in the build?
Your feat tree is great, although the order is a subject of debate-I second going with precise shot earlier on, considering pistols have to be close and your half orc friend is going to be in the fray every time. Also agree that improved TWF is better than deadly aim for more dakka dakka. More enemies than not have garbage touch AC, and a lot of the high CR bigguns are easy targets, where deadly aim will matter most to cut through DR and a boatload of HP, so maybe even push it back. I really like the fabluist feat, although from sheer optimization its not great(but it is so damn cool and fitting for a bluff character) and improved initiative is always good.

[SMac8988]

Geddy - Thank you so much for all the help so far.

Stat Update:
Str - 8
Dex - 18
Con - 12
Int - 14
Wis - 16
Cha - 6

I also added Suspicious trait, which gave me a +1 to sense motive, and also added it as a skill, so i get the bonus.

And that means I can double shot every attack, just with a neg 4 to all of them? Cause that was my big confusion so far.

What would you feat line be? Like i honestly just dropped stuff on there, lol. I am open to adjusting it. I was thinking about improved init, but didn't see space just yet.

[Geddy2112]

Yes, you can double shot so long as you have 2 rounds in le chamber. Using alchemical cartridges drops it to a move action to reload one barrel, or free with rapid reload. If your on powder, you need a standard to reload one barrel, or a move with rapid reload.Which brings us to feats- Sig deed can't reduce the cost of up close and deadly deed, otherwise you got the feats right. My order would be

Level 1 - Point Blank Shot
Level 3 - Rapid Reload
Level 4 - TWF
Level 5 - Precise shot
Level 7 - Rapid Shot
Level 8 - Improved TWF
Level 9 - Deadly aim
Level 11 - Greater TWF
Level 12- Improved initiative
Level 13-Clustered shots
Level 15-Improved critical
Level 16-Hammer the gap

The last 4 can be mixed around depending on what you fight a lot-clustered shots will overcome even the stickiest of DR, and if you start seeing a lot of DR take it earlier. Improved critical is not really needed, but gun crits are quite devastating and it restores grit. Hammer the gap is good at 16+ when you have your full number of attacks and it will do the most damage. Quick draw is also something to consider-normally a junk feat, but being able to draw on the initiative check or draw and mass dakka is useful.

[SMac8988]

Awesome, thanks again! I wanted to add Quick Draw, I just felt at post level 16 its not really needed. I really like the gunslinger, and hoping this will be a fun character to play!

[Honest Tiefling]

Seems like Geddy2112 is doing a good job of helping you, but I feel as if I should mention this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?213035-PF-The-Gunslinger-s-Handbook) as well.

[Triskavanski]

Something that Might help you out..

There is a fighting style in the weapon Master's book called Empty Quiver Style. Despite its name, it functions with all ranged weapons.

To begin with, your guns get some properties that allow them to be used like melee weapons, but you don't threaten yet. And you qualify for stabbing shot feat and can use it with firearms. (somehow stabbing people with the ammo.. Idon't know.)

Then you can start threatening.. And all feats/class features that can be applied to your ranged attacks, also function for you melee attacks.

Then when you do make a melee attack and hit, you no longer provoke some AoOs with that weapon against that foe. And you can reload for free if you qualify.


Essentially.. I see gun kata.

[SMac8988]

Thanks for the link!

I thought about adding in some way of fighting if i was out of ammo, but due to my party set up, and my lack of physical power, i decided against it. But thanks for a look into a different idea feat. I will hopefully be able to post a link to my character sheet soon, hoping to finish it tonight!

[SMac8988]

Link to my character sheet so far, still changing things based off all of your awesome advice!

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=618065

[Geddy2112]

Looks really solid.

A couple tweaks on skill ranks:
You are the only member of the party that has knowledge(engineering) and knowledge(local). Engineering is almost useless and local is situational, but having those checks available to the party is better than not. Throw a skill rank into each early on and call it good.

The alchemist has heal, and will provide potions/extracts to heal with. However, a rank in heal means you have a decent chance to stabilize in battle, and can take 10 to stabilize out of battle. It also has some other situational uses and is worth a rank.

You don't need more than one rank in craft-alchemy to make alchemical cartridges, so I would not put any more into it. Let the goblin alchemist be the BAMF in this department.

I assume you will probably keep a lot of ranks in acrobatics, but get at least three so you can have the bonus to fighting defensively/full defense. Probably not something you will use often/ever, but good to have the option.


For your gear:
pick up a club and a sling. Both are free, and it is better to have a long ranged weapon(albeit garbage) and a melee weapon(albeit garbage) than facing the alternative of unarmed/improvised/using bullets for pot shots. Pick up the first decent melee weapon you can find, and a crossbow/bow for long range is good if you can afford to spare the weight. If the melee weapon is light, you can use it in your off hand to TWF before you can afford your second piece, and reload with the tail. Also good if the gun jams(and no grit) or disarmed etc to scrap. A knife is good to have in a gunfight, so long as you also have a gun. Plus, its totally badass.