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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Druid + Planar Shepherd + Hierophant = Transferring PrC-augmented Wild Shape goodies?



Endarire
2015-11-11, 11:45 PM
Greetings, all!

Let's assume I'm a Druid5/Planar Shepherd10/Hierophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm) 1 with the Power of Nature ability from Hierophant. Power of Nature explicitly allows the subject to use Tiny/Huge forms if the transferring Druid could use them. (There's no mention of Large forms. Buh?)

Can I give an ally (like my Animal Companion) the ability to Wild Shape into Magical Beasts, Outsiders, and Elementals of my Shepherd plane? Seemingly yes, due to a Druid/Hierophant being able to transfer any Druid abilities except spellcasting and animal companionship.

Planar Shepherd (Faiths of Eberron 106) has this under its Wild Shape entry:
"Your druid levels stack with your planar shepherd class levels for the purpose of determining the number of daily uses, the maximum HD and size (but not creature type), and the duration of your wild shape ability. At 3rd level, you are able to use wild shape to change into a magical beast native to your chosen plane, with the same size restrictions as for animal forms."

Planar Shepherd says this about Elemental and Outsider forms:
"When you attain 9th level, you become able to use wild shape to change into an elemental or outsider native to your chosen plane, although it costs two of your daily uses of wild shape to do so."

Hierophant's Power of Nature ability says:
"Available only to hierophants with druid levels, this ability allows a hierophant to temporarily transfer one or more of his druid Class Features to a willing creature. The transfer lasts anywhere from 24 hours to one week (chosen at the time of transfer), and while the transfer is in effect, the hierophant cannot use the transferred power. He can transfer any of his druid powers except spellcasting and the ability to have an animal companion.

The druid’s wild shape ability can be partially or completely transferred. The heirophant choses how many uses of wild shape per day to give to transfer and retains the rest of the uses for himself. If the hierophant can assume the form of Tiny or Huge animals, the recipient can as well.

As with the imbue with spell ability spell, the hierophant remains responsible to his deity for any use to which the recipient puts the transferred abilities."

Bronk
2015-11-12, 12:16 PM
Can I give an ally (like my Animal Companion) the ability to Wild Shape into Magical Beasts, Outsiders, and Elementals of my Shepherd plane? Seemingly yes, due to a Druid/Hierophant being able to transfer any Druid abilities except spellcasting and animal companionship.

Yes, for the reasons you mentioned. First of all, that's exactly what the power does. But on top of that, it mentions (in a poorly written way, by mentioning tiny and huge forms but not large) that wild shape abilities beyond that of the entry level druid ability at level 5. It just happens that there aren't many additional options in core to be listed out.

eggynack
2015-11-12, 12:19 PM
I'm doubtful. You're not transferring your existence over to the creature. You're transferring your druid class feature. To my mind, that means that you just take the words in the wild shape ability under druids, and you copy them unaltered onto the creature in question. The planar shepherd's wild shape power is really its own class feature, and doesn't just get copied onto the druid's wild shape so much as it remains a separate entity, so power of nature, an ability that only transfers your druid class features (and thus presumably not the same named class features of some other class you have), wouldn't have access to that alteration. It's the same way that power of nature wouldn't transfer over a form adding feat to the creature.

Bronk
2015-11-12, 03:55 PM
I'm doubtful. You're not transferring your existence over to the creature. You're transferring your druid class feature. To my mind, that means that you just take the words in the wild shape ability under druids, and you copy them unaltered onto the creature in question. The planar shepherd's wild shape power is really its own class feature, and doesn't just get copied onto the druid's wild shape so much as it remains a separate entity, so power of nature, an ability that only transfers your druid class features (and thus presumably not the same named class features of some other class you have), wouldn't have access to that alteration. It's the same way that power of nature wouldn't transfer over a form adding feat to the creature.

The wild shape entry in the Planar Shepard class is only an add on to preexisting druid wild shape. It has a listing as a class feature, but although it says 'druid levels stack', the PS class requires you to have wild shape first and doesn't progress it within the class, so you're actually dependent on PS stacking with druid, not the other way around.

I think the TL;DR here is that both Hierophant and Planar Shepard are poorly worded, but if the OPs DM going is beyond core s/he should realize that the scope of wild shape is now expanded to include all the new rules in the allowed books.

Flickerdart
2015-11-12, 04:00 PM
The ability only allows the transference of Druid Wild Shape (as the ability of the same name, into Small or Medium animals) and then Tiny and Huge animal Wild Shape. Nothing else. The argument that "Tiny and Huge" secretly means "and any other forms you can do" has no RAW support - otherwise the power would also mention, for example, Elemental wild shape.

Bronk
2015-11-12, 04:25 PM
The ability only allows the transference of Druid Wild Shape (as the ability of the same name, into Small or Medium animals) and then Tiny and Huge animal Wild Shape. Nothing else. The argument that "Tiny and Huge" secretly means "and any other forms you can do" has no RAW support - otherwise the power would also mention, for example, Elemental wild shape.

I think it's the opposite... it doesn't specify small or medium shapes at all, just wild shape ability. Long story short, the statement at the end is just a clarification, not a limitation, to the statement 'He can transfer any of his druid powers except spellcasting and the ability to have an animal companion.' It's a 'yeah, obviously' statement.

Flickerdart
2015-11-12, 04:30 PM
It's a 'yeah, obviously' statement.
The words that indicate examples are "For example." They do not appear here.

eggynack
2015-11-12, 04:36 PM
The wild shape entry in the Planar Shepard class is only an add on to preexisting druid wild shape. It has a listing as a class feature, but although it says 'druid levels stack', the PS class requires you to have wild shape first and doesn't progress it within the class, so you're actually dependent on PS stacking with druid, not the other way around.

I think the TL;DR here is that both Hierophant and Planar Shepard are poorly worded, but if the OPs DM going is beyond core s/he should realize that the scope of wild shape is now expanded to include all the new rules in the allowed books.
I disagree that it somehow adds on. Yes, your planar shepherd levels are stacking on to the druid levels for some purposes, but at the same time you're getting some abilities from druid class features and some from planar shepherd class features. Hierophant transfers druid abilities, and no matter how you structure things, this isn't a druid ability. The target gets druid wild shape, not druid+planar shepherd wild shape, and this is outside of the overall context of the ability.

Bronk
2015-11-12, 05:03 PM
I disagree that it somehow adds on. Yes, your planar shepherd levels are stacking on to the druid levels for some purposes, but at the same time you're getting some abilities from druid class features and some from planar shepherd class features. Hierophant transfers druid abilities, and no matter how you structure things, this isn't a druid ability. The target gets druid wild shape, not druid+planar shepherd wild shape, and this is outside of the overall context of the ability.

Wild shape is a druid ability though, and now the wild shape ability of that particular druid is just that much better.

eggynack
2015-11-12, 06:06 PM
Wild shape is a druid ability though, and now the wild shape ability of that particular druid is just that much better.
Standard wild shape is a druid ability. Wild shape that enables you to become a magical beast is not a druid ability. Not everything that falls under the umbrella of wild shape is automatically the domain of druids.