Batman (not Wizards)

[Draz74]

So, over time, there have been a number of discussions about how to simulate our favorite hero Batman as a D&D character.

I was always an advocate of Batman as a Scout (tons of skills, Skirmish style fighting with his unarmed strikes), with dips into Monk, Fighter, and Shadowdancer.

Now, I think Tome of Battle has given a better answer.

Batman is a Swordsage. Maybe without even any multiclassing.

... just one with ridiculously good ability scores, so he can afford to have (for example) an Intelligence much higher than your usual Swordsage.

Is there anything about Batman that Swordsage doesn't cover? Armor proficiency, perhaps?

[the_tick_rules]

he has to have some levels in ninja, he did train as a ninja for awhile.

[Fax Celestis]

Batman doesn't use armor. I'd say Swordsage, focusing on Shadow Hand, Diamond Mind, and Setting Sun.

[Ramza00]

he has to have some levels in ninja, he did train as a ninja for awhile.

This logic falls under this comic
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html


Batman doesn't use armor. I'd say Swordsage, focusing on Shadow Hand, Diamond Mind, and Setting Sun.
Depending on your incantation of batman, I would say the bat suit is light armor comparable to studded leather/leather. Once again though it would be made of a special material, so you may have something similar to mithral but instead of making it metal you are making it carbon fiber or something.

[MeklorIlavator]

he has to have some levels in ninja, he did train as a ninja for awhile.

Ocupation does not equal class. Maybe the ninja's were sword sages, and just called themselves ninjas.

[SilverClawShift]

I'd give Batman the character himself 9 levels even.

Open with a level of aristocrat if you want flavor accuracy (all armor and shields, simple & martial weapons, and good will saves)

In the middle, Rogue & Fighter in just about any pattern you want, with unarmed fighting feats.

levels 8 and 9 are shadowdancer, hide in plain sight, darkvision, improved evasion, uncanny dodge.

Plenty of ranks in hide and move silent obviously, and maxed out UMD.

And enough money to buy any gear he can find, and the UMD ranks to make it work.

*EDIT*

And yes, I'm aware that this build technically gets an XP penalty. But the way a Humans favored class is handled seems wonky to. Making it the highest level class just encourages dancing around the rules pointlessly, my group just lets us cut one class from the count.
But ah well.

[goat]

The thing is, do you give Batman a HIGH charisma, to reflect his charm with the ladies while in Bruce Wayne mode and multitude of associates, , or do you give him a relatively LOW charisma, to reflect his cynicism, general gruff nature and surly attitude?

Alfred as well, is quite difficult. Depending on which background you choose, you need to provide a history on the stage, a history as a spy for the British Secret Service, time as a soldier, time as an amateur detective, his obvious medical abilities... AND the skill points in knowledge (protocol), profession (butler)...

[Setra]

The thing is, do you give Batman a HIGH charisma, to reflect his charm with the ladies while in Bruce Wayne mode and multitude of associates, , or do you give him a relatively LOW charisma, to reflect his cynicism, general gruff nature and surly attitude?
Batman clearly has a decent Charisma

Not only can he be a Ladies man as Bruce, but as Batman his Force of Personality is clear. Intimidation is a Charisma based skill, after all.

[Fax Celestis]

ZOMG BATMAN IS A BARD. wtf.

[Ramza00]

The thing is, do you give Batman a HIGH charisma, to reflect his charm with the ladies while in Bruce Wayne mode and multitude of associates, , or do you give him a relatively LOW charisma, to reflect his cynicism, general gruff nature and surly attitude?

How is being a cynic a sign of low charisma, and gruffy people can be very charismatic

[sikyon]

He's obviously got everything high. Hell, strength is probably his lowest score, and that's not very low at all. His Charisma is demonstrated by his ridiculously good bluff/diplomacy/seduction abilities. He just doesn't give a crap sometimes, and that's when no charisma in the world will help you.

[Aquillion]

Artificer. Think about it! He makes his own unique equipment and carries a utility belt with everything and the kitchen sink in it... that's just about his most consistant theme.

[Jasdoif]

ZOMG BATMAN IS A BARD. wtf.He might just be a swordsage built with the "superlative array" (18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18) and a level in human paragon to pick up an extra class skill somewhere....though I have wonder if he has levels in some obscure Batarang-centric prestige class.

[Fax Celestis]

He might just be a swordsage built with the "superlative array" (18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18) and a level in human paragon to pick up an extra class skill somewhere....though I have wonder if he has levels in some obscure Batarang-centric prestige class.

This one, maybe? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36500)

[Draz74]

Charisma is obviously high for Bluff, Disguise, and Intimidate checks. (Not Diplomacy so much ... he doesn't spend ranks on that.) Disguise and Intimidate are probably his two highest-mod skills (though Search, Know (Local), Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, and Sense Motive are also very good).

Constitution is probably his lowest stat, followed by Strength, and both of those are still pretty good.

Human Paragon dip is an interesting idea.

I think his suit counts as armor for sure. But then, I've pretty much re-defined everything about Batman in my mind to fit Batman Begins perfectly, so sue me. :smallamused: Improved Shadow Mithral Breastplate, anyone?

Batman's not an Artificer (though he does have some ranks in Craft). Lucius Fox, an NPC that Batman's good friends with, is an Artificer. (Hey, if you have a solo campaign, you gotta give the one character a decent array of NPC friends that he can go to for help, like Fox and Alfred.)

[Fax Celestis]

Actually, come to think of it, I think Batman may be a Swordsage/Factotum.

[Catch]

ZOMG BATMAN IS A BARD.

I have not laughed this hard in quite some time.

Pat yourself on the back, sir.

[Fax Celestis]

//pats self on back.

[Person_Man]

ZOMG BATMAN IS A BARD. wtf.

It's true! Doesn't anyone else remember the Batusi (http://www.arune.com/batusi/)?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Batusi-adamwest.jpg

Batman is actually a really good example of how Skill Monkeys often get the shaft in D&D. Stealth, speed, and hit-and-run tactics often work best when you're alone, or in a party of all Skill Monkeys. One slow moving meatshield in full plate pretty much screws some of your greatest assets. Batman alone (or just with Robin and/or Batgirl) can spy on an enemy for as long as he likes to collect information, pick off his enemies one at a time while Hiding in between take-downs, plant traps and and patiently lure enemies into them, stop combat to interrogate, diplomatically talk someone down, or play his enemies against one another, or use any other non-conventional attacks with his wide array of training and items. But if anyone else from the JLA is there, Batman is reduced to hitting people with martial arts and bat-a-rangs, or going off on his own, which you can't do for extended periods because it hyjacks the plot line away from everyone else in the party.

[Jasdoif]

This one, maybe? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36500)...yes, that looks about right. Perhaps it's not as obscure as I thought.

[Kyace]

ZOMG BATMAN IS A BARD. wtf.

http://jl.toonzone.net/episode31/001.jpg
Shame youTube and google video didn't have a clip of him singing.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Ocupation does not equal class. Maybe the ninja's were sword sages, and just called themselves ninjas.

Then why is there a Ninja class at all?

It's because classes do actually try to equal occupation. They don't do it very well and probably shouldn't but they do try.

[goat]

Constitution is probably his lowest stat, followed by Strength, and both of those are still pretty good.

I dunno, he gets beaten up, shot, poisoned etc and carries on going, I think his con has to be high.

[Setra]

Just a Estimate but..

Str. 12
Dex. 16
Con. 14
Int. 18
Wis. 14
Cha. 14

Thoughts?

[Kyace]

Then why is there a Ninja class at all?

It's because classes do actually try to equal occupation. They don't do it very well and probably shouldn't but they do try.

Classes are ooc, occupations are ic. Classes usually provide the ability to fill a themed role, however they are not the roles themselves. You can be a thief without any levels of rogue, or a soldier without levels of warrior or fighter. Or call yourself a ninja when you really are a monk or fighter with a few levels of rogue. A class is meant to provide the player with the tools to allow a character to fill the theme or role, not to straightjacket them in.

[Person_Man]

Then why is there a Ninja class at all?

It's because classes do actually try to equal occupation. They don't do it very well and probably shouldn't but they do try.

I would say that most D&D gamers, especially new gamers, approximate crunch with fluff. They want to play a Ninja, so they search for something named Ninja. You see this all the time on the boards, and it often leads to piss-poor combinations (Barbarian/Cleric, Swashbuckler/Wizard, Monk/Anything) because players want to play some combination of archtypes, and they think that the best way to do that is to blend the classes that generally fall into those archtypes. You see this problem with feats too. A player will want to be really effective with a signature weapon, so they take Weapon Focus, even though they'd be more effective with the same weapon if they took Power Attack (or pretty much any other feat). But the reality is that with the exception of alignment restrictions, you can roleplay anything you want to regardless of crunch. In most cases, the fluff in the class and feat descriptions are just there to provide you with ideas.

[Behold_the_Void]

Strong/Fast Hero with the Dilettante starting occupation. Might take a few levels in Smart and/or Charismatic Hero too. Advanced classes include Martial Artist, as well as probably several others such as Inflitrator, Daredevil, Field Scientist, and/or Techie. Probably just REALLY high level.

[Dhavaer]

Someone built Superman, Batman and a bunch of other DC heroes for Modern in a thread on the Wizards boards, but it's proving very difficult to find due to the lack of search function.

[Spiryt]

Just a Estimate but..

Str. 12
Dex. 16
Con. 14
Int. 18
Wis. 14
Cha. 14

Thoughts?

He always look powerfuly builded. He is superhero without superpowers so he probably must just have everytjing at 18 :smallwink:

[oddbovine]

I always a D&D Batman would be a rogue/monk/paladin, with the three feats from Complete Adventurer (ascetic rogue, ascetic knight, devout inquisitor) that allow smite evil and monk unarmed combat damage to stack with in all three classes, and make sneak/smite and sneak/stun more awesomer.

Plus, the paladin's mount special ability is sort of the medieval equivalent of the Batmobile.

[Sutremaine]

Someone built Superman, Batman and a bunch of other DC heroes for Modern in a thread on the Wizards boards, but it's proving very difficult to find due to the lack of search function.
I can't find it either, but the WOTC boards can be searched via Google by adding site:http://boards1.wizards.com to the end of the search.

[Dhavaer]

I can't find it either, but the WOTC boards can be searched via Google by adding site:http://boards1.wizards.com to the end of the search.

I found the search function; the thread is no longer on the boards.

[Aquillion]

Someone built Superman, Batman and a bunch of other DC heroes for Modern in a thread on the Wizards boards, but it's proving very difficult to find due to the lack of search function.Did Superman have a divine rank? It'd be sort of hard to represent all his powers any other way, especially silver-age superman....

[Dhavaer]

Did Superman have a divine rank? It'd be sort of hard to represent all his powers any other way, especially silver-age superman....

No, just very high strength, constitution, DR and some 'virtual size categories'.

[Fax Celestis]

Vorpal Tribble statted out a "Kryptonian" a while back...lessee...Right here: link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34424).

[Poppatomus]

clearly a fighter with a freakish skill list

[ArmorArmadillo]

I've been referenced...I feel so proud I almost want to cry.:smallredface:

He's very capable, so I'm calling level 10.

Going entirely core:
It was well said he starts as Aristocrat 1;
Then I'd add 2 levels of Paladin (He smites evil pretty hard, and Divine Grace seems appropriate for getting out of his share of tough jams)
4 leves of Monk; He's in tip-top physical shape, fights unarmored, is fast, has evasion, punches really hard, and can slow-fall.
2 Levels of Rogue: he has skills out the wazoo, and he jumps out of the dark to jank you!
Then 1 Level in Shadowdancer; He has Hide in Plain Sight, no question.

Max out Use Magic Device, Hide, Move Silently, Disguise, Intimidate, Perform (Dance), Gather Information, Knowledge (Superscience), Profession (Pilot/Driver) and Craft (Crime Lab).

Take Leadership, have either a Sidekick cohort or Alfred. (1 Sidekick at a time, max. I'm not dealing with the horror of Nightwing, Batgirl, and (New) Robin)

There you have it: Core Kosher Dark Night. Fear the bat.

[Droodle]

I don't think Batman would have any NPC class levels since he started training to be a dark avenger when he was only 14. He wouldn't have had the time to take an NPC level.