Girl Genius XIX: Worth a Third of Your Grade

[memnarch]

It is a world ruled by Mad Science! Things happen. Usually, they happen to other people. This is entertainment. That's when the front door gets blown in- And you belatedly realize that, once again, you are doomed to be the entertainment in another exciting installment of: GIRL GENIUS (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20071228)!



Many elegant, finely-crafted, and vintage links follow:

Links to Previous Threads
Girl Genius! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4818) (thread)
Girl Genius II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80718)
Girl Genius III: Nize Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92541)
Girl Genius IV: Because SCIENCE! is my mistress (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102230)
Girl Genius V: Madre de Diodes! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112305)
Girl Genius VI: Der Pestle in Der Kestle (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128538)
Girl Genius VII: Get on the Slab, I Want to Get to Work! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143909)
Girl Genius: VIII Will Show Them All! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159600)
Girl Genius IX: The Unstoppable Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173582)
Girl Genius X: The Othar Shoe Drops (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189632)
Girl Genius XI: Ding Dong, the Baron's Dead! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207223)
Girl Genius XII: For Doom The Bell Tolls (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227697)
Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245508)
Girl Genius XIV: A Lightning Arc in All But Speed! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266978)
Girl Genius XV: The Weasel, the Spark, and the Wardrobe (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287759)
Girl Genius XVI: The Wrath of Klaus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?322309)
Girl Genius XVII: And Then He Had Pie (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365866)
Girl Genius XVIII: Invisible Hand of the Legendary Smoke Knights (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412897)

Comic Links
Link to current comic (http://girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php) and link to the beginning of the strip. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104) (Updates MWF, usually after Midnight [Eastern Time])
The Continuing Adventures of Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer! (http://twitter.com/Othar) (back on hiatus, may update in the future)
A compilation (and much easier to read if you're just catching up) of the first three chapters can be found here at the GG website (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/fun/twitter_othar_01.php).
And if one goes to snapbird.org (http://snapbird.org/) and types in "Othar" in the 'Who?' field, all of Othar's adventures can be read on one page (albiet in reverse order of posting - Now must have a Twitter account to use).
Mirror of the comic found on LiveJournal (http://girlgeniuscomic.livejournal.com/) (Often will update before the main page is updated, so beware of spoilers)
Mirror of the comic found on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Girl-Genius-Webcomic/28371352860?ref=nf) (Will occasionally have Girl Genius related news)
And one can find mirrors of Girl Genius on deviantArt as well (http://girlgeniuscomic.deviantart.com/). (Occasionally Kaja will put up or link to interesting GG related art that is found on dA)

Reference Links
Wiki Project devoted to to Girl Genius (http://girlgenius.wikia.com/wiki/The_Department_of_Almost_Certainly_True_History)
Wikipedia entry on Girl Genius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Genius)
TV Tropes page on Girl Genius. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GirlGenius)
The Secret Blueprints (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4272360&postcount=1478) (NOTE: Contains background information on the GG Universe, so it should probably be read after "catching up" to the newest comic, as it contains many spoilers.)

Social Media and News Links
Phil Foglio's new Wordpress art, news, and blogging website. (http://girlgeniusadventures.com/)
Kaja Foglio's LJ Page (http://kajafoglio.livejournal.com/) and Studio Foglio News LJ Page (http://studiofoglio.livejournal.com/) (Not currently being updated)
Kaja & Phil's Personal Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kaja-Phil-Foglio/196305144555) (Not currently being updated)
A twitter account that basically is a catch-all feed for Girl Genius related news. (http://twitter.com/girlgenius)
Cheyenne Wright's Twitter (http://twitter.com/CheyenneWright) and LiveJournal Accounts (http://cheyennewright.livejournal.com/) (The colorist's twitter and LJ pages)
And finally,
Phil's old LJ page. (http://philfoglio.livejournal.com/) (Occasionally contains crossposts from the Wordpress website)

[BannedInSchool]

I'm here! I'm here! But my homework ate my dog. That should be extra credit.

[stsasser]

I am stsasser and I approve this thread title.

[Rockphed]

New comic featuring a new word: Moligarchy. I'm surprised nobody thought of it sooner.

Also, do you think this is the race of people that spawned The Undermine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhwlcVAClk)r?

[Rogar Demonblud]

No. But they should've been.

[memnarch]

New comic featuring a new word: Moligarchy. I'm surprised nobody thought of it sooner.

Also, do you think this is the race of people that spawned The Undermine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhwlcVAClk)r?

Hmmm, perhaps. Underminer looks too smooth to be related though.

[Agi Hammerthief]

:popcorn:
Bookmarking

[Southern Cross]

I don't have to bookmark. Once I post a reply to this thread, I will get email updates whenever a new message is posted.

[Lethologica]

I don't have to bookmark. Once I post a reply to this thread, I will get email updates whenever a new message is posted.
Huh? You mean you don't just obsessively click through the forums to keep track of all your favorite threads whenever you have a spare moment? someone pls find me a life i'm pretty sure i don't have one

[BannedInSchool]

Well, if arranged royal weddings stop wars then one or two more and there's no war against the surface.

[Kantaki]

Well, if arranged royal weddings stop wars then one or two more and there's no war against the surface.

Well, Hoffmann is the son of the mole-king. I'm not sure if the adopted part makes a difference and I'm very sure Collette would object to the idea, but at least they belong to the same species.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I don't have to bookmark. Once I post a reply to this thread, I will get email updates whenever a new message is posted.
Strictly speaking, you don't need to post. Top right of the first post: Thread Tools -> Subscribe to this thread.
But it is fun anyway to post some random stuff anyways. For me GirlGenius has winded in terms of excitement but not in fun-wise.

[hajo]

arranged royal weddings stop wars
That is pretty much the plan behind the stormking/heterodyne (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080204)-story,
and the ploy with Zola (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090302) and now Seffie (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140430)...

[petersohn]

Strictly speaking, you don't need to post. Top right of the first post: Thread Tools -> Subscribe to this thread.
But it is fun anyway to post some random stuff anyways. For me GirlGenius has winded in terms of excitement but not in fun-wise.
Do I automatically subscribe to a thread if I post something?

[Kantaki]

That is pretty much the plan behind the stormking/heterodyne (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20080204)-story...

That didn't work out that well, didn't it? Fall of the Storm King and all that. Why do the Knight of Jove want to recreate that scenario again

[Grif]

Well, Hoffmann is the son of the mole-king. I'm not sure if the adopted part makes a difference and I'm very sure Collette would object to the idea, but at least they belong to the same species.

Waaaaaaaaait.

Hoffman is now officially royalty. :smalltongue:

[Rockphed]

That didn't work out that well, didn't it? Fall of the Storm King and all that. Why do the Knight of Jove want to recreate that scenario again

They weren't planning on there being a real heterodyne.

[Kantaki]

They weren't planning on there being a real heterodyne.

I'm not sure that makes the idea much better. I mean sure, there is this prophecy, that the Knights of Jove might have made up, but they are still recreating the romance that led to their fall.
Somehow that doesn't sound very smart to me.

[Rogar Demonblud]

"Not very smart" is a pretty good description of most everybody we've seen in GG-verse.

[Kantaki]

"Not very smart" is a pretty good description of most everybody we've seen in GG-verse.

Well, yeah, but even then knowingly recreating the events that led to your downfall is its own kind of "not very smart".
At least Hoffmann can claim ignorance about the situation he messed with if it leads to a war of the new underground alliance against Paris. That is not much better, but well... he didn't know better.

[Lethologica]

Do I automatically subscribe to a thread if I post something?
Depends on your profile settings.


"Not very smart" is a pretty good description of most everybody we've seen in GG-verse.
On the contrary, it takes real cleverness to be that stupid.

[slayerx]

Hoffman recommended that they arrange a marriage to end the war and he said they managed to find a solution to the whole different species problem... And it turns out that the king has adopted HIM into the royal family... Is Hoffman's adoption their solution to the inter-species problem and he doesn't realize that HE is the one that will end up being married off to end the war?

Cause if so, then it sounds like collette might not have to worry about this union lasting too long.

[Kantaki]

That would bring us back to „not very smart” I think.

More importantly, it would mean that our heroes are gloves.
But, hey they got out of worse situations already.

I doubt that Hoffmann unknowingly is the one who has to marry, after Collette criticized him for the arranged marriage part of his plan he said „they are fine with it” implying that the partners are already choosen.

And if he is the one the moles choose for this? He should hope for the best regarding his bride - I doubt that his „friends” or his other „friends” will let him back out.

[hajo]

Why do the Knight of Jove want to recreate that scenario again
Gil figured it out while guarding Klaus at the great hospital:
legitimacy (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070713) - to get a claim to rule over europe.

And the clan around Tarvek/Tweedle/Seffie (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130703)/KoJ/Mongfish
has been working on that plan for a long time...

[Aquatosic]

Hoffmann is officially my favorite character now. He is hilarious, charming and well-meaning and his solutions have that hilarious tendency to go horribly right.

And even stranger, he seems to have a modicum of common sense, considering his solution to the underground war. And yet, even that solution puts Paris at risk of invasion, which is just like him to do that.

[Kantaki]

Gil figured it out while guarding Klaus at the great hospital:
legitimacy (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070713) - to get a claim to rule over europe.

And the clan around Tarvek/Tweedle/Seffie (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130703)/KoJ/Mongfish
has been working on that plan for a long time...

I know that they had good reasons for this „plan”.
I'm just saying it isn't a smart plan.
They recreating events that led to their downfall to reach their goal. Just because of some fairy-tale.
Okay, the original plan involved a fake, but it still is tempting fate.
Working with the Others family would make it worse, but considering the way Martellus & co tend to act that match was made... somewhere really unpleasant. Even ignoring the original events involving the Storm King and the Heterodynes that mess would have blown up sooner or later.

[Lethologica]

I know that they had good reasons for this „plan”.
I'm just saying it isn't a smart plan.
They recreating events that led to their downfall to reach their goal. Just because of some fairy-tale.
Okay, the original plan involved a fake, but it still is tempting fate.
Working with the Others family would make it worse, but considering the way Martellus & co tend to act that match was made... somewhere really unpleasant. Even ignoring the original events involving the Storm King and the Heterodynes that mess would have blown up sooner or later.
'Marriage' seems like a general enough plan that the failure last time was probably in the execution.

[Kantaki]

'Marriage' seems like a general enough plan that the failure last time was probably in the execution.

The problem isn't the „marriage” but the „Heterodyne” part of the plan. The combination of the two parts didn't end too well for the last guy wearing the crown. Trying it again is just tempting fate.
I would give them points for the „fake” part, but... a Mongfish? Really? Even if we ignore Lucrezia they aren't what I would call trustworthy. Adding them to a family that already tries to wipe itself out seems „not very smart”.

[Lethologica]

The problem isn't the „marriage” but the „Heterodyne” part of the plan. The combination of the two parts didn't end too well for the last guy wearing the crown. Trying it again is just tempting fate.
I would give them points for the „fake” part, but... a Mongfish? Really? Even if we ignore Lucrezia they aren't what I would call trustworthy. Adding them to a family that already tries to wipe itself out seems „not very smart”.
So, (a) this is the 'too clever for their own good' bit, but also (b) it seems like it would have worked pretty well if Agatha and Lucrezia hadn't simultaneously turned up.

[eschmenk]

The problem isn't the „marriage” but the „Heterodyne” part of the plan. The combination of the two parts didn't end too well for the last guy wearing the crown. Trying it again is just tempting fate.
I would give them points for the „fake” part, but... a Mongfish? Really? Even if we ignore Lucrezia they aren't what I would call trustworthy. Adding them to a family that already tries to wipe itself out seems „not very smart”.

The plan doesn't have to make sense to you. I just had to make sense to them. The people in the KoJ are power-hungry nitwits who resented being under Klaus's thumb and who were desperate to get their power back, so it didn't take much for the plan to seem like an idea worth trying to them. It actually was less bad than the other ideas that some of them tried, IMO.

That's basically Lethologica's (a), but worded differently.

[eee]

I'm not sure that makes the idea much better. I mean sure, there is this prophecy, that the Knights of Jove might have made up, but they are still recreating the romance that led to their fall.
Somehow that doesn't sound very smart to me.

Actually, they're playing to the myth, not reality. It's like an American politician claiming to have been born in a log cabin, worked his way to the top through his own efforts, and wrapping himself in a flag while waving the Constitution around as he gives speeches. The situation now is completely different than back in the Storm King's day. Then, Andronicus was a mega ruler leading a coalition of most of Europa's power players to try to stop the Heterodyne menace, and Euphrosynia the Trojan Horse who, willingly or otherwise, destroyed that coalition and the Storm King. Now, the KoJ are trying to create another Storm King, and trying to make him legitimate by tying him to Andronicus. It would be like if a Sword in a Stone suddenly appeared today, with the legend that whoever could draw the sword would be the rightful ruler of Europa. As part of this the KoJ are retelling the Andronicus / Euphrosynia story, the opera and myth making it out to be a Romeo / Juliet type love, and if it happens again and goes right THIS time, there will be peace, prosperity, and lots of happiness.

Nations have been forged from lesser myths.

The KoJ are still planning to use military, political, and economic force to create their Storm King (who they apparently want to be a figurehead while THEY actually rule), but the myth is to give them a justification for that.

[Southern Cross]

Of course, if the new Storm King has any sense, he can have them killed, as they conspired with the Other.
And what are the odds that Gil is actually related to Titus Andronicus on his mother's side?
It's a cliche that the new hero-king doesn't know at first he's the rightful heir, after all. (And Agatha certainly fits this trope.) Besides, one of Gil's titles is "Your Royal Highness". Yes, current evidence implies his mother is the Queen of Skifander- but the Storm King DID get around- he could possibly have impregnated a Skifandrian Queen).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or one of his descendants could have married into the Wulfenbach family. Heck, half the Spark Houses could be descended from him.

[hajo]

Hoffman recommended that they arrange a marriage to end the war...
And it turns out that the king has adopted HIM into the royal family...
Is Hoffman's adoption their solution to the inter-species problem...
(Hoffman) doesn't realize that HE is the one that will end up being married off to end the war?
... Collette
is the daughter of the Master of Paris - that's as 'royal' as it gets, here.

Any bets that the next arranged marriage will be Hoffman & Colette,
to avoid a war against the surface? :smallamused:

I'm pretty sure Hoffman wouldn't mind :smallbiggrin:

[Wayson]

Hoffman recommended that they arrange a marriage to end the war and he said they managed to find a solution to the whole different species problem... And it turns out that the king has adopted HIM into the royal family... Is Hoffman's adoption their solution to the inter-species problem and he doesn't realize that HE is the one that will end up being married off to end the war?

Cause if so, then it sounds like collette might not have to worry about this union lasting too long.

Mega points to you for getting it exactly right. :O And unfortunately now he's locked into the marriage, because it's the only way to avert the invasion. Good news at least, he may get extra credit for that. :smalltongue:

[Kantaki]

Hoffmann aside, did this surprise anyone? The poor guy won't get out of that one. Especially since the marriage prevents a war against Paris.

I just hope our heroes don't have to stay for the wedding. Those things rarely end well.:smallamused: Hums "The Rains of Castamere"

[gooddragon1]

There are only so many thirds in a grade...
He also presumes much in thinking it will get him a full score. If he has one of the harder teachers, they never give full credit.

[eee]

Poor Hoffmann. He's getting it from all sides. How much is a third of his grade worth?

I wonder if Colette is, unknowingly, an adopted member of the Aruguron Royal family and the one THEY are putting up for this marriage? The MoP probably DOES have strange connections... And we don't know who her mother is...

Is that rock in the seventh panel alive or just carved that way???

[factotum]

The thing about Colette seems a bit of a reach, but would be fun to see...

Anyway, new strip doesn't really tell us much other than that we're likely to be seeing the Argurons real soon now, since everything seems to be pointing our heroine in that direction.

[Kantaki]

So far everything is going well with the library-mission. I'm expecting the worst.

[hajo]

Someone is making a serious line of niche products :smallamused:

"Heterodyne-branded, truffle-flavored crown-polish" FTW :smallbiggrin:

[eee]

Agatha! For pity sakes! Copyright your image if you can, you'll become rich enough through royalties you can BUY Europa!

I'm rather liking the Mole King. He seems to be a nice guy. Even if he is selling his adopted son down the river.

Speaking of which, all the reasons for Hoffmann to go through with this marriage are piling up. It's going to take him a real Houdini act to get out of it without sacrificing his grade.


Someone is making a serious line of niche products :smallamused:

"Heterodyne-branded, truffle-flavored crown-polish" FTW :smallbiggrin:

Given the number of rulers we've seen in the GG universe, crown polish may not be a SMALL niche item... Frankly, I think Agatha's image has been plastered on everything people are selling, no matter how ridiculous, Glove oil, crown polish, drinking chocolate... The Heterodyne name and Agatha's face appears to be a major selling point, at least in Paris.

[petersohn]

Agatha! For pity sakes! Copyright your image if you can, you'll become rich enough through royalties you can BUY Europa!

I'm rather liking the Mole King. He seems to be a nice guy. Even if he is selling his adopted son down the river.
I think it was his plan all along. He didn't adopt Hoffmann because he is such a nice guy. When Colette complains that they are not even the same species, Hoffmann says "they said they worked that out". Poor guy didn't really understand how exactly (though I guess he should have seen this coming). A perfect foreshadowing.

[Marcelinari]

Is it me, or does the Master of Paris seem less-than-omnipotent nowadays? Colette was truly concerned about the joint threat of the Argurons and the Talpini united, the Library has to be approached as diplomatically as possible (Colette has no authority to go there), the Blitzengaards are swanning about throwing masquerades (I can think of nothing more dangerous) and there's an opera house full of slaver wasps, presumably with a load of slavered Parisians. I've no doubt he's a force to be reckoned with... but Klaus seemed like a far more successful ruler, if only because all of the infighting around him was openly and deliberately allowed.

Edit: Also, did anyone make anything of Zeetha's comments on this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151111#.VkymGXarQsk) page? That sounds awfully similar to the way Lucretia gained control of the Geisterdamen... add that to the fact that (there's some supposition here) Lucretia was the person who packed Klaus off to Skifander... has there been wild mass guessing about Lucretia's relationship to the Skifandrian royal family? That seems like a fruitful way to pass the time.

[eschmenk]

I'd say that the Master is reasonably close to being omnipotent within his small domain, but his domain is limited to the surface and just a few levels underneath. The library, Argurons, and Talpini should all be considered to be foreign domains just outside his borders just like the surface land that Klaus controls that lies just outside Paris. The Master has no authority in those places because they are all outside Paris.

The Blitzengaards remind me of some of Klaus's troublesome vassals. The solution in both cases is just to keep a close eye on them. That there are wasps in the opera house seems to be a flat-out mistake so clearly the Master isn't omnipotent omniscient. Still, compared to Klaus who was pretty frazzled at times, got wasped, and lost a major battle deep inside his own territory, I'd say the Master is doing reasonably well at keeping his own domain under control.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That is, he is so far. I think that's about to change.

[petersohn]

When we first met Klaus, his empire was strong and he was firmly in control. Then Agatha appeared and things started to fall apart. Similarly, when we first met the Master, Paris was strong and he was firmly in control. However, if we look deeper below the surface, we can see that things are already falling apart invisibly (the thing with these underground people and the Geisterdame in the opera house). Now Agatha appeared...

[eschmenk]

Agatha's ancestors would be very proud! :smallbiggrin:

[sherlock]

Hoffmann is so "Heterodyne-style" in his actions that I wonder if he could be Agatha's cousin or something similar. He reminds me a lot the brothers Heterodyne. Maybe Agatha's uncle had a hidden romantic relation in Paris?

If Agatha should sue everyone who used her name and image without consent in the two years she was absent and ask for the right money back, Mechanisburg will become the richest city in the whole world, no doubt.

I like the mole-men.

[Deliverance]

If Agatha should sue everyone who used her name and image without consent in the two years she was absent and ask for the right money back, Mechanisburg will become the richest city in the whole world, no doubt.

It is a world ruled by mad science, not copyright or trademark law.

...Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a comic based on a world ruled by mad lawyers battling it out for dominance, and yet it seems such an obvious subject. Can anybody help me out here? Surely somebody must have written something like that.

[Douglas]

...Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a comic based on a world ruled by mad lawyers battling it out for dominance, and yet it seems such an obvious subject. Can anybody help me out here? Surely somebody must have written something like that.
Freefall has "battle lawyers", but so far they've only appeared in one offhand historical reference.

[Rockphed]

Freefall has "battle lawyers", but so far they've only appeared in one offhand historical reference.

Everything in Freefall is an offhand historical reference.:wink:

[petersohn]

Umm. Website seems to be down. Not that it's update time or anything, but still.

[Douglas]

Well hi there, Mr. Gentleman Adventurer. It's too bad the forums don't have the proper font for that.:smallbiggrin:

[eee]

WHOA! Early update!

And there's pretty much only one person that could be. Othar Tryggvassen (Gentleman Adventurer) is, I think, about to make his reappearance.

EDIT: Ninjaed! :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

WHOA! Early update!
They've actually been pretty good about updating on the dot of midnight (Eastern US time zone) recently.

[Ellen]

Othar's back!

And, is that thing called the Eloi Eater? Guess we just had to get some Morlock jokes in (and I guess we can take it less literally here than we would in Paris).

[Ailurus]

Huzzah! The Special Trousers have prevailed again!

[lurkmeister]

...Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a comic based on a world ruled by mad lawyers battling it out for dominance, and yet it seems such an obvious subject. Can anybody help me out here? Surely somebody must have written something like that.
Try Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law -- not a comic, but very definitely a world ruled by Mad Lawyers (of which our protagonist is one). And Stephen Colbert provided voice talents!

[HandofShadows]

Come on didn't anyone notice that Gil isn't sparky and the bags under his eye's are looking better. And there is a VERY pleased with himself Higgs there.

[thorgrim29]

So, doctor Rothfuss, big guy with a bushy brown beard huh? Sounds familiar: http://www.patrickrothfuss.com/content/index.asp

[wingnutx]

I might have known!

[Nourjan]

It is a world ruled by mad science, not copyright or trademark law.

...Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a comic based on a world ruled by mad lawyers battling it out for dominance, and yet it seems such an obvious subject. Can anybody help me out here? Surely somebody must have written something like that.

I believe Eoin Colfer (Artemis Fowl's writer) have one book where the lawyers in that universe are basically special forces commandos (gives paralegal a whole new meaning).

[The Glyphstone]

Doesn't Tarvek also call Gil "Wulfenbach"?

[thorgrim29]

Yeah, but he's passed out and like a few seconds for dying isn't he?

[BRC]

Doesn't Tarvek also call Gil "Wulfenbach"?



Probably? But Tarvek wouldn't have said "I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!"

That's a Hero Line.

And we know what that means...

[eschmenk]

Yeah, but he's passed out and like a few seconds for dying isn't he?

Right. I don't think it could be Tarvek; if it is, he's doomed because Gil isn't ready to save him. And I think Gil would be acting a little more excited.

If I had to guess someone other than Othar, I'd guess the Abbess because she might say something like that. She should be a little clawed up, but OK otherwise. We don't know that Gil is familiar with her, but he might have learned about her at some point. She was in the Red Cathedral, but the room she was in was lit by green lights and the portal, but she might have moved from where she was. Still, I think Othar is more likely than her, even though we weren't told that he was at the cathedral.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure that the last canonical time we've seen Othar was way back at the beginning of Volume 13 (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121221).




Probably? But Tarvek wouldn't have said "I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!"

That's a Hero Line.

And we know what that means...


Huh? Villains say that a lot, too. Really, any frustrated over-the-top person with a high opinion of themselves might say it. And Tarvek can sound just as bad as Othar at times.

[halfeye]

Have Othar and Martellus been introduced? If not, why not?

[eee]

Have Othar and Martellus been introduced? If not, why not?

They may know of each other; but how we know they'd react to each other, they probably haven't met face to face yet, because they are both still alive.

[Rockphed]

They may know of each other; but how we know they'd react to each other, they probably haven't met face to face yet, because they are both still alive.

That is a fight I would pay good money to see. Not my money mind, but it would be legal tender somewhere. Or at least look like legal tender. Okay, so I made a counterfeiting clank, but it is really bad. I have a pile of bright yellow US bank notes to unload and a fight between two homicidal, incredibly-durable sparks seems likely to have the bookies distracted and open for fraud. :smallamused:

[Deliverance]

It has got to be Othar.

While Tarvek also calls Gilgamesh Wulfenbach, especially when annoyed, if Tarvek has been freed it has - for him - been only a few hours since he was sad that Agatha had thrown Gil out of Mechanicsburg, so they couldn't keep him safe (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130329) and an even shorter period of time since he saw Klaus dropping from the sky, and didn't know what it was, but was sure it was from the Wulfenbach fleet (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130424) after which he was struck near the heart with a knife (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130503).

I just don't see Tarvek being having either the inclination, being in the shape, or having reason to shout "Wulfenbach! I might have KNOWN!" under those circumstances.

Othar, on the other hand, was presumably in good shape when the Time bubble went up, hasn't been mentioned since then, and knows that Gil is a villain! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120305) If he has just been freed, is confused about the situation (well, he's Othar, but more confused than usual), and seeing how something is terribly wrong with Mechanicsburg? "Wulfenbach! I might have KNOWN!" would fit perfectly... if followed by, "but know that I, Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer, will <insert rant>".

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I have no doubt it's Othar either. But the speech patterns would fit Tarvek as well, so it's possibly if exceedingly unlikely they've selectively freed his head from stasis or something, letting him talk without the poison progressing.

[Lethologica]

It has got to be Othar.

While Tarvek also calls Gilgamesh Wulfenbach, especially when annoyed, if Tarvek has been freed it has - for him - been only a few hours since he was sad that Agatha had thrown Gil out of Mechanicsburg, so they couldn't keep him safe (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130329) and an even shorter period of time since he saw Klaus dropping from the sky, and didn't know what it was, but was sure it was from the Wulfenbach fleet (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130424) after which he was struck near the heart with a knife (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130503).

I just don't see Tarvek being having either the inclination, being in the shape, or having reason to shout "Wulfenbach! I might have KNOWN!" under those circumstances.
What, you don't think enough can happen in a few hours of in-comic time to get Tarvek to say pretty much anything? In Girl Genius? :smalltongue:

(I don't think it's Tarvek, but I think this is an amusing way to go about disproving it.)

[Deliverance]

What, you don't think enough can happen in a few hours of in-comic time to get Tarvek to say pretty much anything? In Girl Genius? :smalltongue:

(I don't think it's Tarvek, but I think this is an amusing way to go about disproving it.)
I find it unlikely that such major changes in a few hours of in-comic time would happen off-screen. Especially since we know that Tarvek spent the part of that time before the time freeze going to the Cathedral with Agatha.

[Grif]

On an entire different note, Gil's looking quite well rested now. :smallsmile:

[Wayson]

And things seemed to be going so well too! Bleh. :smallyuk:

[memnarch]

The interesting thing is the red lightning lines all over Othar. I wonder if that's because they're still in the Time Bubble or just because of the difference in removal from Vole (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140730).

[lurkmeister]

This has to be going through Gil's mind right now:

headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk

[Rodin]

The interesting thing is the red lightning lines all over Othar. I wonder if that's because they're still in the Time Bubble or just because of the difference in removal from Vole (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140730).

It's because they're still in the time bubble - look at the previous page, you can see the red lines all over Gil as well.

[HandofShadows]

This has to be going through Gil's mind right now:

headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk

I TOTALLY agree.

[eee]

Hey, OTHAR! Should you not also be concerned with Sanaa? You know, your sister? Who has shown an ability to get herself into trouble, but less competence to get out than you or Agatha? The girl lobbying to be your sidekick? Who is also missing? Her?

(I'm not looking forward to when Sanaa realizes her beloved older brother IS crazy. Good reason to keep them separated as much as possible.)

I too noticed the tendrils of energy. I saw them first on Othar's classic torso and thought "Wow, he's got some interesting scar patterns." Then I saw they extended down onto his pants, and revised my view.

[eschmenk]

(I'm not looking forward to when Sanaa realizes her beloved older brother IS crazy. Good reason to keep them separated as much as possible.)


Minions like to follow crazy masters. Why would this be any different?

[thorgrim29]

Wow, Othar is pretty ripped under the sweater he usually wears.

[memnarch]

It's because they're still in the time bubble - look at the previous page, you can see the red lines all over Gil as well.
Ah, yeah. I was just comparing to the guy in white on the right and didn't see any of the lines on him.

[The Glyphstone]

Wow, Othar is pretty ripped under the sweater he usually wears.

You didn't notice that back when we first met him in Volume Two, on the airship? Dude has muscles on his muscles.

[thorgrim29]

It's been a while since I read that section, also the art is a lot more detailed nowadays

[Rogar Demonblud]

You didn't notice that back when we first met him in Volume Two, on the airship? Dude has muscles on his muscles.

It helps he doesn't have anything inside his skull that needs nourishment.

[The Glyphstone]

It helps he doesn't have anything inside his skull that needs nourishment.

Eh, Othar can be extremely canny at times. He's just erratic and single-minded even by Sparky standards, in addition to being utterly delusional.

[lurkmeister]

You know, Othar brings such an unusual vibe to the story.

When we first met him, Agatha freeing him from Baron Wulfenbach's clutches was an establishing-character moment for her: She's a genuinely good person, even when she has to take risks to be good.

Now, though, I'm pretty sure all of the protagonists and even most of the antagonists would positively salivate to get him back into that sparkproofed thing the Baron devised to hold him. Which, in turn, makes Baron Wulfenbach a more complex and sympathetic character (especially since he obviously knew what Othar's like, while Agatha didn't).

[Deliverance]

Except, of course, that Baron Wulfenbach didn't want to keep Othar locked up in a spark-proof thing; When first we meet Othar, Klaus wanted to dissect Othar's mind to better understand the spark, destroying the mind in the process. When second Othar and Klaus meets in the comic, Klaus has captured him because he wants to enslave Othar, forcing him under duress with an exploding collar to save Gil from the deadly Castle Heterodyne as an alternative to killing Othar. I've a hard time seeing Klaus as a more sympathetic character for either of these reasons.

[Gez]

Except, of course, that Baron Wulfenbach didn't want to keep Othar locked up in a spark-proof thing; When first we meet Othar, Klaus wanted to dissect Othar's mind to better understand the spark, destroying the mind in the process. When second Othar and Klaus meets in the comic, Klaus has captured him because he wants to enslave Othar, forcing him under duress with an exploding collar to save Gil from the deadly Castle Heterodyne as an alternative to killing Othar. I've a hard time seeing Klaus as a more sympathetic character for either of these reasons.

You seem to underestimate at which level the Baron is working.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040121
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040227

[Hurkyl]

Argh, the OP misses the best part of the introduction.

It is a world ruled by mad science, poorly!

[memnarch]

Argh, the OP misses the best part of the introduction.

It is a world ruled by mad science, poorly!

Yeah, but there's so much text already in the post, I didn't want to clutter it up even more. :smalltongue:

[lurkmeister]

Except, of course, that Baron Wulfenbach didn't want to keep Othar locked up in a spark-proof thing; When first we meet Othar, Klaus wanted to dissect Othar's mind to better understand the spark, destroying the mind in the process. When second Othar and Klaus meets in the comic, Klaus has captured him because he wants to enslave Othar, forcing him under duress with an exploding collar to save Gil from the deadly Castle Heterodyne as an alternative to killing Othar. I've a hard time seeing Klaus as a more sympathetic character for either of these reasons.
Hey, I'm not saying he's a good character. My point is that as this comic goes on his reasons do have a tendency to make more sense ... which makes him less of a kick-the-dog villain and more of a well-intentioned extremist. I don't think either Gil or Agatha or Tarvek would ever have his propensity towards human experimentation and enslavement, but there's no denying that Othar Tryggvassen is better off out of the picture (from their perspective).

It'll be fun to see how he screws everything up this time. :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

Hey, I'm not saying he's a good character. My point is that as this comic goes on his reasons do have a tendency to make more sense ... which makes him less of a kick-the-dog villain and more of a well-intentioned extremist. I don't think either Gil or Agatha or Tarvek would ever have his propensity towards human experimentation and enslavement, but there's no denying that Othar Tryggvassen is better off out of the picture (from their perspective).

It'll be fun to see how he screws everything up this time. :smallbiggrin:
There's a reason Klaus Wulfenbach is the source of the page quote for TVTropes The Extremist Was Right (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheExtremistWasRight). He's a lot like a well played Renegade Commander Shepard, I think. Everything he does has a good and sensible reason behind it, he's just willing to use methods and means that most people would despise and all too often faces problems that he can't find any better solution for.

[Sean Mirrsen]

New strip.

Heh. "Other problems." :P

[factotum]

I wonder: did Othar see Tarvek get poisoned? That piece of information might be quite important here.

[Neoriceisgood]

Sup!

I quit reading GG around the time that Mechanicsburg got invaded and Agatha stepped through some magic portal and met not-Tarvec.


Has anything worth catching up to happened since that time?

[halfeye]

Sup!

I quit reading GG around the time that Mechanicsburg got invaded and Agatha stepped through some magic portal and met not-Tarvec.


Has anything worth catching up to happened since that time?
I think so, but it depends on why you gave up. The plot has not really advanced, gone backward in some ways, but there have been quite a lot of adventures.

Not Tarvek is a jerk of Othar's calibre, and Othar has just been seen for the first time since you left, so their meeting is presumably scheduled. Worst case they'll like each other, but Othar wants to kill all sparks and Martellus (Not-Tarvek) is a spark, so that seems unlikely.

[eee]

The doctor's pretty good with explanations!

Othar can shift gears really fast. As befits a Gentleman Adventurer.


I wonder: did Othar see Tarvek get poisoned? That piece of information might be quite important here.

Kind of doubtful. Tarvek and Violetta followed Tweedle down into the catacombs. That's why Gil was complaining about how difficult it was to retrieve him, he's in a place that's hard to get to. If Othar had been close enough to see Martellus throw the knife, first of all he'd have probably joined in the attack on Martellus and either stopped him or gone through the portal with Agatha and Co. And second, if he WERE that close when the Time Bomb went off, it would mean Gil's tunneling operation was close to Tarvek and you'd think Gil would want to know how much longer until they reached him...

And if Othar WERE close enough to have seen the poisoning, all he would have seen was a knife going into Tarvek's chest. Now, this being Othar, he might, through observation and deduction, know the blade was poisoned; but he wouldn't know how virulent the poison was. Even warned, I doubt Gil would be prepared for how little time he had to save Tarvek.

[eschmenk]

IMO, Othar is more complex than a lot of the comments have indicated. Othar has been known to show considerable wisdom and insight (www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050622) actually, but I agree that he is much more likely to show extreme goofiness.

I agree with Eee about Othar probably not knowing about what happened to Tarvek. I think Gil may already know, though. Tarvek was located by Gil's people, so they may have at least seen the knife. I quickly scanned through some of the pages and I didn't see anyone specifically tell Gil about the poisoned knife, but Agatha spent time with Gil and could have told him. Zeetha may have been told and could have told Higgs. Marellus might have told Seffie who might have told Gil. There are probably other ways that Gil might have found out already. I wouldn't count on Gil not already knowing, but I don't really know.

[lord_khaine]

Gil does know whats wrong with Tarvek, it were in one of the messages that Agatha send to him, though i can recall on what page it is.

[Calemyr]

IMO, Othar is more complex than a lot of the comments have indicated. Othar has been known to show considerable wisdom and insight (www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050622) actually, but I agree that he is much more likely to show extreme goofiness.

I agree with Eee about Othar probably not knowing about what happened to Tarvek. I think Gil may already know, though. Tarvek was located by Gil's people, so they may have at least seen the knife. I quickly scanned through some of the pages and I didn't see anyone specifically tell Gil about the poisoned knife, but Agatha spent time with Gil and could have told him. Zeetha may have been told and could have told Higgs. Marellus might have told Seffie who might have told Gil. There are probably other ways that Gil might have found out already. I wouldn't count on Gil not already knowing, but I don't really know.

Yeah, Othar is quite a bit more complex than popular impression. He has to be, in order to be as effective as he actually is. He struggles against Agatha and the Wulfenbachs, yes, but let's be fair: everyone does. And when you look at his actual reputation, rather than his tilting at the Barony, the story changes pretty drastically.

Honestly, I think Othar's absurdly canny, on par with Klaus. Like Klaus, he's smart enough know the importance of controlling the narrative, he just takes a different angle on it. Where Klaus simply conveys absolute inevitability, however, Othar uses the romantic tendencies of the sparkless to grease his agenda. Look how popular the dime novel is in Europa, or how Heterodyne plays draw in the crowds. Othar's comically dramatic persona is perfect for capturing the hearts of the people, fitting himself nicely in the void in the public mind labelled "hero". I'm pretty sure he means it, of course, he really is trying to be the wall between the sparkless and the Sparks that make their lives miserable. He's just set it up so that he's able to pursue his crusade and get the masses to applaud him for it. He may even do it for them, now that I think about it. That void exists because they need a hero, maybe not to save them, but to make their lives more endurable. Just by playing the ham, he gives people happy stories to talk about, rather than just the latest war or casualties by scientific abomination, in effect saving more lives than just the next damsel in distress.

I think he stays in "performance mode" almost all the time, always playing for the audience in case there is one, and just a couple times putting it aside when things get sincere. This is one of those times. Once he's up to speed, I expect he'll go right back into full ham mode, saying something along the lines of either "This is your one chance at redemption, will you help me or will you be part of the problem?" or "Much as I'd love to bring you down, foul villain, there are darker threats I must attend to first!" Either way, he'll do whatever he feels will resolve the problem best while not betraying his heroic persona.

[memnarch]

Gil does know whats wrong with Tarvek, it were in one of the messages that Agatha send to him, though i can recall on what page it is.

Didn't say what kind of poison, but yes (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131227).

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, Othar is quite a bit more complex than popular impression. He has to be, in order to be as effective as he actually is. He struggles against Agatha and the Wulfenbachs, yes, but let's be fair: everyone does. And when you look at his actual reputation, rather than his tilting at the Barony, the story changes pretty drastically.

Honestly, I think Othar's absurdly canny, on par with Klaus. Like Klaus, he's smart enough know the importance of controlling the narrative, he just takes a different angle on it. Where Klaus simply conveys absolute inevitability, however, Othar uses the romantic tendencies of the sparkless to grease his agenda. Look how popular the dime novel is in Europa, or how Heterodyne plays draw in the crowds. Othar's comically dramatic persona is perfect for capturing the hearts of the people, fitting himself nicely in the void in the public mind labelled "hero". I'm pretty sure he means it, of course, he really is trying to be the wall between the sparkless and the Sparks that make their lives miserable. He's just set it up so that he's able to pursue his crusade and get the masses to applaud him for it. He may even do it for them, now that I think about it. That void exists because they need a hero, maybe not to save them, but to make their lives more endurable. Just by playing the ham, he gives people happy stories to talk about, rather than just the latest war or casualties by scientific abomination, in effect saving more lives than just the next damsel in distress.

I think he stays in "performance mode" almost all the time, always playing for the audience in case there is one, and just a couple times putting it aside when things get sincere. This is one of those times. Once he's up to speed, I expect he'll go right back into full ham mode, saying something along the lines of either "This is your one chance at redemption, will you help me or will you be part of the problem?" or "Much as I'd love to bring you down, foul villain, there are darker threats I must attend to first!" Either way, he'll do whatever he feels will resolve the problem best while not betraying his heroic persona.

It hadn't really occurred to me until now, but you've also basically described Darkwing Duck; goofy and comedic, except when it really matters. When Othar drops the bombastic GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER routine - or worse, takes off his visor - you know the situation has gotten serious.

[Douglas]

Didn't say what kind of poison, but yes (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131227).
Ah, good. Gil may not know exactly what poison, or how deadly it is, but he does know it exists and that it came from Martellus. He should be able to deduce "incredibly deadly" from that, simply because Martellus wouldn't use anything less on a direct rival.

[Calemyr]

It hadn't really occurred to me until now, but you've also basically described Darkwing Duck; goofy and comedic, except when it really matters. When Othar drops the bombastic GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER routine - or worse, takes off his visor - you know the situation has gotten serious.

I see the similarity, but I also see one major difference. Darkwing Duck is an immature glory hound who has to be forced to put his ego in check before his natural competence comes to the fore. Othar, I believe, is crafting a persona specifically tailored to catch the public's imagination, although he has adhered to that persona almost to the point of delusion. Othar's theatrics benefit his effectiveness, rather than an obstacle to it.

That said, yeah, they both have character breaks when their usual persona gets in the way. DW puts his ego aside in order to be startlingly effective, Othar puts his theatrics aside as a display of sincerity and an acknowledgement to others that the situation is not a game.

[eschmenk]

Look how popular the dime novel is in Europa, or how Heterodyne plays draw in the crowds. Othar's comically dramatic persona is perfect for capturing the hearts of the people, fitting himself nicely in the void in the public mind labelled "hero".

I like your analysis. :smallsmile: I think another factor related to the part I quoted is that Othar is influenced by such stories, too. Not only do they influence how people expect heroes to act, they probably influence how Othar thinks a hero should act. He probably thinks of himself as maintaining a proud tradition. He gets excessively caught up in the hero role at times, but he's a spark, so that should be expected.

[HandofShadows]

What's funny about Othar the hero is always supposed to win. But he keeps loosing (often badly) to Klaus and Gil (and even Agatha some). Something that points to who the real heroes are maybe?

[Douglas]

What's funny about Othar the hero is always supposed to win. But he keeps loosing (often badly) to Klaus and Gil (and even Agatha some). Something that points to who the real heroes are maybe?
Ah, but every significant villain gets temporary victories all the time, usually through dastardly underhanded means. Declaring "FOUL!" every time someone beats him fits that narrative perfectly.:smallamused:

[eschmenk]

What's funny about Othar the hero is always supposed to win. But he keeps loosing (often badly) to Klaus and Gil (and even Agatha some). Something that points to who the real heroes are maybe?

Othar thinks of Agatha as being heroic now, so she's not a good example. Also, although, of course, a hero can't run away, we don't know that Othar has been trying to hunt Klaus or Gil down. He seems to look for other adventures, but he doesn't always have a choice. If Gil or Klaus trapped Othar in a situation where he was forced to choose between opposing them or looking bad, naturally he would act as if he was the hero and they were the villains. In this case, he thought Gil had captured him. Shortly before (as far as he knew) Gil had tried to capture Agatha on the rooftop of the castle, but Franz had carried Gil away. Why would Othar automatically trust Gil now?

[wingnutx]

Ah, but every significant villain gets temporary victories all the time, usually through dastardly underhanded means. Declaring "FOUL!" every time someone beats him fits that narrative perfectly.:smallamused:

It's way too early. The tension needs to build more. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html)

[geoduck]

For what it's worth, the print-novel adaptations of GG far more explicitly state that yes, the whole goofy Gentlemen Adventurer thing is a facade that Othar puts up.

And one thing about Agatha's warning about the poisoning; it's not clear at what point head-Klaus steps in and takes control of Gil, so he may or may not have heard that specific warning.

[Traab]

Im more tagging this post right now, I cant believe I didnt notice the new one going up.

[eschmenk]

And one thing about Agatha's warning about the poisoning; it's not clear at what point head-Klaus steps in and takes control of Gil, so he may or may not have heard that specific warning.

I think Gil is aware of what is happening even when Klaus takes control. That's based on what he says here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140811). He's talking about Klaus overriding him and forcing him to do things, rather than taking over his consciousness. It would be more like Lucrucrezia's wasp-based mind control than what happened with Agatha. (Lucrezia's mind was supposed to replace Agatha's rather than control Agatha's and when the locket is off, it does.) Except for the mind-destroyed shamblers, the revenants actually are aware of what they are doing, they just can't control themselves and must obey the commands that they are given. (Apparently there are some built-in commands that they don't need to be told: they can't warn anyone, they can't harm Lucrezia, etc.)

[Drascin]

I see the similarity, but I also see one major difference. Darkwing Duck is an immature glory hound who has to be forced to put his ego in check before his natural competence comes to the fore. Othar, I believe, is crafting a persona specifically tailored to catch the public's imagination, although he has adhered to that persona almost to the point of delusion. Othar's theatrics benefit his effectiveness, rather than an obstacle to it.

That said, yeah, they both have character breaks when their usual persona gets in the way. DW puts his ego aside in order to be startlingly effective, Othar puts his theatrics aside as a display of sincerity and an acknowledgement to others that the situation is not a game.

The other difference is, of course, Darkwing being actually heroic:smalltongue:.

[The Glyphstone]

The other difference is, of course, Darkwing being actually heroic:smalltongue:.

Remember our perceptions are slanted by our particular protagonist. As far as 99.99% of Sparky Europa goes, Othar is the hero he makes himself out to be - Sparks are bad news for pretty much every non-Spark out there. Him being somewhat deranged as any Spark must be, and mostly incapable of separating himself from his narrative, means he can't see the rare occasion of a benign or benevolent Spark when it comes along.

[eschmenk]

Him being somewhat deranged as any Spark must be, and mostly incapable of separating himself from his narrative, means he can't see the rare occasion of a benign or benevolent Spark when it comes along.

He did recognize that Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly and has been helping her since then. He can tell that the Wulfenbachs aren't completely evil and cooperates with them when appropriate. I think saying that "he can't see the rare occasion of a benign or benevolent Spark when it comes along" is overstating it. He might not realize it at first glance, but he seems to be able to figure it out. I can't think of any benign or benevolent Spark that Othar hasn't recognized.

I don't think there is any question that Othar acts like a hero under the GG universe's definition of hero. Agatha called him a hero when she first met him. Why not take her word for it?

[halfeye]

Agatha called him a hero when she first met him. Why not take her word for it?
Because she later changed her mind?

[eschmenk]

Because she later changed her mind?

We know that didn't happen.

The castle actually tested Othar using the scientific method and determined that Othar was a real hero. Anyone who claims that Othar isn't a hero is arguing against science. :smallcool: Agatha certainly wouldn't do that.

I'm not going to look for the URL, but the castle tested Othar on pages 62-63 of the PDF version of Volume 11.

ADDED: An easy to find additional example: Agatha called what Othar did "hero-ing" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050608) even after he shot a hole in her airship.

[HandofShadows]

He did recognize that Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly and has been helping her since then. He can tell that the Wulfenbachs aren't completely evil and cooperates with them when appropriate. I think saying that "he can't see the rare occasion of a benign or benevolent Spark when it comes along" is overstating it. He might not realize it at first glance, but he seems to be able to figure it out. I can't think of any benign or benevolent Spark that Othar hasn't recognized.

I don't think there is any question that Othar acts like a hero under the GG universe's definition of hero. Agatha called him a hero when she first met him. Why not take her word for it?

The reason Othar changed his mind about Agatha was because of her last name. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050601#.VldvnutdEdU

[eschmenk]

The reason Othar changed his mind about Agatha was because of her last name. http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050601#.VldvnutdEdU

That was part of it, but it probably wouldn't have been enough because most of the Heterodynes were evil. Theo would have told Othar more about Agatha, though. ("He told me everything!") The stories Theo told apparently were enough to convince Othar that Agatha was more like her father and uncle than her previous ancestors. Also, what Othar said here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050622) was based on personal observation.

Either way demonstrates my point, though.

One more thing. We don't know if Othar realized that Theo was a spark, but Othar seemed to get along with him well enough.

[HandofShadows]

That was part of it, but it probably wouldn't have been enough because most of the Heterodynes were evil. Theo would have told Othar more about Agatha, though. ("He told me everything!") The stories Theo told apparently were enough to convince Othar that Agatha was more like her father and uncle than her previous ancestors. Also, what Othar said here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050622) was based on personal observation.

Either way demonstrates my point, though.

One more thing. We don't know if Othar realized that Theo was a spark, but Othar seemed to get along with him well enough.

The only way you proved your point was by moving the goal posts.


He did recognize that Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly and has been helping her since then.

If Theo has to spend time telling Othar about Agatha then it is NOT anywhere close to recognizing "Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly". Someone had to take time to do it. And while the old Heterodynes where evil, Agatha's father and uncle where THE hero's of their generation. Now if Othar had not said he was going to kill Agatha during the escape, I would agree with you. But he didn't.

[eschmenk]

If Theo has to spend time telling Othar about Agatha then it is NOT anywhere close to recognizing "Agatha was benevolent pretty quickly". Someone had to take time to do it.

Ah, I see that you and I have different ideas about what "pretty quickly" means.

-------------

This isn't particularly directed at HandofShadows, but I'm thinking that maybe some people aren't thinking to look at things from Othar's POV. What Othar would have known was that Agatha refused to help him at all when they first met. Later, she seemed concerned for Othar when the wasps were loose, but she got angry when the clank rescued Othar and was actually yelling at it to stop! I can't blame Othar for not knowing what to make of Agatha from that. I know that before Othar learned that Agatha was a spark, Othar kept trying to play it up as if Agatha was a natural-born sidekick who was inevitably trying to rescue him, but I think that was just Othar acting out his Othar persona.

BTW, given that Othar could hold his own in a fight against Klaus, I have to wonder how hard Othar was actually trying if he allowed an eighteen year old young lady with a cat push him out of an airship.

[Ellen]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

[Landis963]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

The flaming eye was a Peter Jackson invention, and only appears in the context of Sauron's palantir. Of course, now the question becomes whether Jackson was traumatized by a dollar bill. (Seems more likely to be traumatized by the lack of a dollar bill, but that's just me.)

[memnarch]

Hey, isn't that a ten commandments style tablet up on that one shelf? And it starts at XI with "Thou sh--" XIV looks like it starts with "No, really."

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

Yeah, and there's a space invader on the same shelf and Audrey II just below the pyramid. I don't think Tolkien would have been traumatized though; it doesn't really scream "lidless and flame".

[Emperordaniel]

There's also a sword labeled "Not Cursed!" in the lower right corner.

[Dexam]

There's also a sword labeled "Not Cursed!" in the lower right corner.

And one labelled "No longer cursed" below that.

Also spotted: Majora's Mask, a Hugo Award, the Maltese Falcon statue, a Mimmoth, the Winslow, and what I can only assume is an oversized Magic 9 Ball (instead of a Magic 8 Ball).

[Somensjev]

Majora's Mask

there's also the Master Sword, complete with pedestal of time

there's an "invader zim" symbol on the back wall

[factotum]

Wonder what the "globe being held up by a miniature Atlas" in the lower right, with the Heterodyne trilobite on the front, is? Have we seen that before?

[eschmenk]

On the other side, it looks like they have the unfinished pyramid being built towards the all-seeing eye from the back of the dollar bill. I'd always understood that to represent the United States as an ongoing work that will last the ages with the ideal it was building towards/being watched over by the all-seeing eye of God. But, looking at this, I'm wondering if Tolkien was ever traumatized by a dollar bill. Looks a bit Sauron-ish.

That's the Eye of Provenance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence). There is also a Hugo award above it, a Glove from the Beatles' Yellow Submarine above and to the right of it and a Cat in the Hat below and to the right of it. I spotted Winslow next to Zeetha.


Wonder what the "globe being held up by a miniature Atlas" in the lower right, with the Heterodyne trilobite on the front, is? Have we seen that before?

That's identical to Gil's "not a lamp" Heterodyne invisibility device (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040213). Gil's goldfish from the first couple of books is nearby.

[HandofShadows]

The Cat in the hat looks a lot like the cat from "Hello Kitty." :smallconfused:

[geoduck]

The Cat in the hat looks a lot like the cat from "Hello Kitty." :smallconfused:

Yeah, that's not the Cat in the Hat. The hat would be striped if it/he was. Over on the other side above the mermaid is (probably) a pylon from the TV series The Land of the Lost.

[eee]

Every time Phil Foglio does one of the 'large number of objects / people' scenes, there's about ten million inside jokes inside. :smallbiggrin:

[Southern Cross]

That sounds to me to be a mite excessive...

[eee]

That sounds to me to be a mite excessive...

Some of them count twice.

The Winslow is almost a million jokes in itself, given how often it pops up.

If Growf were in there - and he may be - we'd be over 10 million just on him.

[Astrella]

So I stopped reading Girl Genius consistently back when the Castle Arc dragged out a lot. Is it still good? Is there a bit more flow to the story again now?

[memnarch]

So I stopped reading Girl Genius consistently back when the Castle Arc dragged out a lot. Is it still good? Is there a bit more flow to the story again now?

Basic outline is the castle is trapped in a bubble and the goal is to try and get it untrapped. It's picked up flow a good amount I'd say now that Agatha's traveled off to Paris and we get to see Gil now and then (who's not in Paris), but I wasn't super annoyed by the large castle arc, so perhaps take it with a grain of salt.

[Douglas]

If you haven't read since before the Castle Arc's completion, you have some quite dramatic events waiting for you to read. I think the story's flowing fine now, but I didn't complain much about the Castle Arc either, so that might not be saying very much.

[eschmenk]

There hasn't been any more days that lasted 2.5 years, but I don't think the pace is much different overall. Volumes 11 and 12 were probably more interesting than the ones in the castle because the story was getting closer to the climax of Act 1. (Volume 11 was still largely in the castle, though.)

I thought the slowest book was Volume 13. Its problem was that the climax for the first act was at the very beginning, so the whole book basically amounted to the denouement for the first act and laying some groundwork for the second act. So far the books in Act 2 so far have been somewhat interesting because there were some changes of scenery, but Phil's pacing and the complexity of the plot are going an issue for some people again. It's also a bit frustrating that quite a few of the questions from Act 1 haven't been answered yet.

If I had to summarize the material after the stuff in the castle, I would say that it's not exactly like being in the castle, but it's not all that much different, either.

[Douglas]

If I had to summarize the material after the stuff in the castle, I would say that it's not exactly like being in the castle, but it's not all that much different, either.
On the other hand, a fair bit has accumulated since then, so it should make for a nice archive binge regardless.

[eschmenk]

Right. Agatha stepped out of the castle (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20111102) four years ago; it's also about four books ago if you are keeping track of it that way. I don't know when Astrella stopped reading so she might have more to read than that to catch up, though.

Another idea would be to start with Act 2 (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20140303). The Foglios intended for new readers to be able to begin there. I'm the type of person who likes to know everything there is to know, so I wouldn't be happy doing that, but it might work better for someone else.

[memnarch]

On the other hand, a fair bit has accumulated since then, so it should make for a nice archive binge regardless.

The whole castle arc goes decently quick on a reread for me, so it might be similar to ripping a bandaid off if it's unpleasant. The only moment in the whole thing there I can think of that was distinctly unpleasant was the bit at the end of the whole cure Tarvek issue.

[Ellen]

Worst wake up call ever.

Seriously, even an intrepid gentleman-adventurer might be wanting to go back to bed at this point and hope the whole thing will turn out to be a very bad dream.

[wingnutx]

Time for some Othar fan service.

[Aquillion]

Something I noticed: On the page before last, Othar's immediate reaction on being told about the time bubble (and the fact that he lost 2.5 years) is to ask if everyone inside the bubble is all right.

He is a hero, at least in some ways, even if he's crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks.

[eschmenk]

He is a hero, at least in some ways, even if he's crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks.

I think his being "crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks" is mostly an act. You can tell that he stopped fighting Gil as soon as he realized that Gil had something important to tell him and, despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucrezia.

I think the Foglios are heavily influenced by the original Frankenstein movie where the villagers were automatically frightened by what they couldn't understand. Most people would think of sparks as automatically being bad (often they were), so a hero would kill the sparks. Othar's pretend mission to kill all sparks would seem heroic to them, so that's why Othar plays it up. However, there is something more important than that now, so Othar is no longer pretending much.

[factotum]

I see that a bit differently. I don't think Othar's mission to kill all Sparks is "pretending" at all. However, he's still aware that not all Sparks are created equal and that some are more worthy targets than others, so he will accept an alliance of convenience with one if it will get him closer to his objective. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and try to kill Gil at some point in the future, it's just it won't happen until he's sure he can't get any more use out of the alliance.

[BRC]

I see that a bit differently. I don't think Othar's mission to kill all Sparks is "pretending" at all. However, he's still aware that not all Sparks are created equal and that some are more worthy targets than others, so he will accept an alliance of convenience with one if it will get him closer to his objective. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and try to kill Gil at some point in the future, it's just it won't happen until he's sure he can't get any more use out of the alliance.

Othar is a Madman, but, like most Sparks, he is a PRACTICAL Madman.

His primary Goal is to be a Hero. He views Sparks as Evil, and the killing of Sparks as Heroic. He is willing to spare Sparks, or Ally with them in the cause of some more immediate Heroism.

Killing all Sparks is really more of a general goal, his specific goal at any one time is to be a Hero.

So yes, it is an Act, but really, his "Act" is just a more exaggerated version of the Truth. When he rants about bringing down the Empire, he means every word of it, in a general sense anyway.

It's like me saying "I should go to the Gym". Yes, I should go to the gym. But, at any given point, I have many reasons to NOT be going to the gym.

[eschmenk]

I think that what BRC said could be right, even though it's different then what I said. I doubt that the Foglios want to be pinned down with respect to Othar's specific motivation. Othar is probably more fun if you aren't too sure about him. As a practical matter, there will probably always be some obviously evil sparks for Othar to battle, so the world would probably never know what Othar would do if there was only Klaus and Gil and some good sparks left for him to kill.

[Deliverance]

I think his being "crazy when it comes to the topic of sparks" is mostly an act. You can tell that he stopped fighting Gil as soon as he realized that Gil had something important to tell him and, despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucrezia.

I think you are misjudging Othar, here.

1) He stopped fighting when he was clearly beaten; In such a situation he is capable of cooperating with villains when given the option, as we have seen before (his venture under duress into castle Heterodyne). He's not the "death before defeat" type of person, preferring to live to fight another day. He is also inquisitive and realizes that he is lacking crucial information.

But if he'd been in a winning position rather than being beaten and he realized he was lacking crucial information, do you believe for a second that he'd have stopped fighting rather than establishing his victory, capturing his enemy, and then trying to get the information. I don't.

I've got a hard time seeing this as stopping fighting because he realized Gil had something important to tell him rather than stopping fighting because he was beaten and then dealing with the situation he found himself in.


2) Baron Klaus Wulfenbach, lord and master of the Wulfenbach empire.... Regardless of how virtuous or how villainous he might be, opposing the Other would be rational policy: The Other is a major threat.

Occam's razor suggests choosing the simpler option: That Othar, who considers Klaus to be a villain, expected Klaus to oppose Lucrezia because Othar considered Klaus to be doing it out of self defense and self interest rather than to be doing it because it was the right thing to do.

[eschmenk]

(his venture under duress into castle Heterodyne)

Actually, speaking of that, notice that Othar became confused (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090202) when Klaus became upset at the thought that Agatha (a good girl) would become powerful. If Othar considered Klaus to be a villain, he would have expected Klaus to become upset in that situation. The situation would have only been confusing to Othar if Othar thought that Klaus was not evil.


Occam's razor suggests choosing the simpler option: That Othar, who considers Klaus to be a villain, expected Klaus to oppose Lucrezia because Othar considered Klaus to be doing it out of self defense and self interest rather than to be doing it because it was the right thing to do.

That's not villainous behavior. A good person would do the same. Villainous behavior would have been something like teaming up with Lucrezia to take over the rest of the world. Granted, Klaus made it pretty obvious from the start that he wouldn't do that and villains will often oppose each other, but Othar never even considered the possibility that Klaus might cooperate with Lucrezia perhaps with the intention of stabbing her in the back later. I agree that it's not definitive, but it's at least consistent with Othar believing that Klaus was mostly good. In any case, Occam's razor doesn't point toward your conclusion that Othar thinks that Klaus is a villain.

ADDED: By "fighting," I didn't mean physical combat. I probably should have said, "opposing," instead.

[Deliverance]

Actually, speaking of that, notice that Othar became confused (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090202) when Klaus became upset at the thought that Agatha (a good girl) would become powerful. If Othar considered Klaus to be a villain, he would have expected Klaus to become upset in that situation. The situation would have only been confusing to Othar if Othar thought that Klaus was not evil.

Note that in the current (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151130) strip Othar considers Klaus' motives to study the Other's work from "the foulest of motives" and that what Klaus claimed about Agatha back when he captured Othar and sent him into castle Heterodyne with an explosive collar around his neck to be "far more likely to be a base falsehood concocted to further some nefarious evil villainy that can only be guessed at".

That sure sounds like Othar considers Klaus a villain.

But let's look back at how Othar considers Klaus the first time we see them together in the comic.

"Twisted fiend!" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040105) - Othar does not like being strapped down for experimentation, and he's not happy (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040107) about Klaus' plan to selectively destroy part of Othar's brain until no spark remains.
"You villain! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040109) - In fact, Othar considers it downright villanous behaviour by Klaus, a villain.
"What, TYRANT? Does the empire give you no pleasure?" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040114) - A villain and a tyrant.
"All the vipers are in residence!" (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040225) - Klaus is clearly one of the vipers and Othar is not using the term viper as a term of approval.
"Den of evil. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20040227) - In fact, Othar considers the airship to be a den of evil. (I'm pretty sure there's also a Zeppelin of Doom or something like that earlier, but I overlooked it when hunting these down.)

The second time:
"So, Tyrant! We meet again! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090130) - Doesn't sound like Othar's opinion of Klaus has improved.
"Yes! The Girl I helped escape from your evil clutches! (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090202) - Referring to Othar's "help" rescuing Agatha from castle Wulfenbach.


Yes, Othar considers Klaus a villain, and is always happy to say so.



That's not villainous behavior. A good person would do the same.

That was my entire point. YOU said that "despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucrezia", in other words, that Klaus would oppose Lucrezia because it was the right thing to do.

I pointed out that given the circumstances it is what Klaus would do regardless of whether he was a villain or not and that, hence, you could not use it to conclude that Klaus did it because it was the right thing.



Villainous behavior would have been something like teaming up with Lucrezia to take over the rest of the world.

No, that would be monumentally stupid villainous behaviour, given the Other's track record, the purpose of the Wulfenbach empire, and the Wulfenbach empire's geostrategic and political situation.

Heck, even if we disregard everything about mind control and the magicspark, when you are already on top of the existing order, the last thing you want to do if you are a rational actor, be you villainous or not, is to team up with somebody else to overturn the order that exists and favours you in order to attempt something that was never your goal.



Granted, Klaus made it pretty obvious from the start that he wouldn't do that and villains will often oppose each other, but Othar never even considered the possibility that Klaus might cooperate with Lucrezia perhaps with the intention of stabbing her in the back later.

Othar has never described Klaus as being stupid or moronic, so why would he even consider such a plan? It is the sort of thing that happens when people act from positions of weakness, not strength, in order to defy those that are stronger.



I agree that it's not definitive, but it's at least consistent with Othar believing that Klaus was mostly good. In any case, Occam's razor doesn't point toward your conclusion that Othar thinks that Klaus is a villain.

I am well aware that I can't use my Occam's Razor argument to conclude that Klaus is a villain, and I didn't do so.

Reread the sentence again and realize that you are mistaking "who considers Klaus to be a villain" in the argument, which is one of the assumptions in the argument, with the conclusion.

It is an interjection describing Klaus as Othar sees him, and forms part of the underlying assumptions in the argument that leads to the conclusion that it is easier to believe Othar believed Klaus acted out of self interest than because it was the right thing to do. The part about Othar considering Klaus a villain was based on Othar's strips together with Klaus, which I thought the comic had made abundantly clear to everybody.

I have now taken the time to link a large number of those strips as evidence of my assertion.

[Aquillion]

Actually, speaking of that, notice that Othar became confused (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20090202) when Klaus became upset at the thought that Agatha (a good girl) would become powerful. If Othar considered Klaus to be a villain, he would have expected Klaus to become upset in that situation. The situation would have only been confusing to Othar if Othar thought that Klaus was not evil.I read that as more Othar saying "why does he think I would care about this?" rather than "Why does Klaus care about this?"

I think that Othar's goal of killing all sparks is genuine, but that he places it secondary to what we'd consider "real" heroic concerns (in his Twitter, for instance, he made it clear that he wouldn't kill innocents, even Jaegers, in the process of killing a Spark.) This could be a subconscious conflict on his part, in that there will always be excuses to not kill Sparks even if he's convinced himself it's what has to be done. Likewise, while he views the Baron as a tyrant, he also recognizes that the Baron would stop Lucrezia, and is willing to work with him on that sort of thing (as he has before.)

[Calemyr]

Actually, it could also be the flip side as well. It could be that killing Sparks isn't what motivates his heroism, but how he copes with the impossible choices that heroism calls for.

Think of it: Born hero, all swash and buckle and last second rescues and damsels in distress and mad villains and... Oh, crap. In my haste to save the day, I killed the villain. I couldn't really have done that, could I? I mean, I'm the hero! Heroes don't kill people, only villains kill people... I can't be a villain, can I? I... I... No. Wait...

Of course! It's so clear! Heroes do kill villains! How did I miss it? I can save the day as much as I want, but that doesn't help anyone if the foul fiend is around to put plan B into action tomorrow! No. It wasn't a failing on my part that he died, it was what I was supposed to be doing all along. Sparks are what is wrong with the world! We make people suffer. We are responsible for bad clams that wield axes! Yes. That is what a hero would do. And as Cog is my witness, I will be that hero! And with this declaration, maybe I can finally ignore the pit of guilt I feel right now...

[eschmenk]

This could be a subconscious conflict on his part, in that there will always be excuses to not kill Sparks even if he's convinced himself it's what has to be done.

Good point. That could be it. I don't think Othar is actually willing to kill good sparks, but yes, that could be operating at a subconscious level. And come to think of it, in the one twitter story where a bunch of Othars were created, he said that the various Othars came upon the conviction that all sparks must die in different ways, so that makes it seem like it is a real conviction.

Added:

I read that as more Othar saying "why does he think I would care about this?" rather than "Why does Klaus care about this?"

I thought about that some, but I think Othar was aware that he was in a situation where his feelings and opinion didn't matter; Klaus wasn't going to allow Othar to have any choice in the matter, anyway.


Actually, it could also be the flip side as well. It could be that killing Sparks isn't what motivates his heroism, but how he copes with the impossible choices that heroism calls for.

I think that makes sense, too. To be clear, Othar isn't aware that he's doing that (or at least wouldn't admit it), but I wouldn't be surprised if that's at least part of what's going on. It would also help help quiet doubts among his fans.

ADDED #2:


That was my entire point. YOU said that "despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucrezia", in other words, that Klaus would oppose Lucrezia because it was the right thing to do.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth. I had meant "do the right thing and therefore oppose Lucrezia," that's what I would have said. If what I had said was equivalent to "would oppose Lucrezia because it was the right thing to do," you wouldn't have needed to claim that it meant that. It's kind of obvious that you don't really believe what you said there.

I think you read to much into what I said originally and that lead the the confused exchange. Trying to redefine what I said to fit your original interpretation is the wrong way to deal with that, though.

One more thing: Linking to a bunch of things that I already knew about was a waste of time, which should have been obvious from what I've been saying in my last several comments.

[Marcelinari]

That wasn't a private conversation, eschmenk. I for one appreciated the references. Also, your comment of "despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucretia" is fairly clearly implying that Klaus is 'doing the right thing' as he opposes the Other - that is to say, the phrase 'doing the right thing' has its own connotations of selflessness or heroism, rather than rational self-interest. It's somewhat disingenuous to play on semantics and precise wordings, and then accuse somebody else of putting words in your mouth.

[eschmenk]

That wasn't a private conversation, eschmenk. I for one appreciated the references.

Yes, I was already aware of that some other people might benefit from the links. However, I had the impression that Deliverance didn't understand that I was already aware of the sorts of things Othar tends to say despite what I had been saying in my previous comments. Hopefully what I said will help him understand my point of view better.

And let's face it, if I had been somehow been writing what I have been saying over the last several days without knowing how Othar tended to talk, that would have meant that I had been spouting off without knowing what I was talking about for quite a few comments. Acting as if I had done so is rather insulting in my opinion. Alternatively, if he just jumped into the conversation without bothering to understand what people had been already saying, that would be rude, too. I'm not sure what the root cause is, but it looks like something happened that shouldn't have happened.


Also, your comment of "despite his digs at Klaus, Othar expected Klaus to do the right thing and oppose Lucretia" is fairly clearly implying that Klaus is 'doing the right thing' as he opposes the Other - that is to say, the phrase 'doing the right thing' has its own connotations of selflessness or heroism, rather than rational self-interest. It's somewhat disingenuous to play on semantics and precise wordings, and then accuse somebody else of putting words in your mouth.

Keep in mind that the context was the question of whether or not Othar was continuing to act in a silly, cartoonish manner. If he had still been behaving in a goofily cartoonish way, he would have been thinking in a very binary way and judging things very superficially. Silly, cartoonish Othar wouldn't have thought about what reasons Klaus would have for doing things. I wouldn't have thought that he would do so.

The claim that I based my argument on what Othar thought Klaus's motivations were misrepresented my argument and implies that I understood the comic differently than I actually did. I see a significant distinction there, even if you don't.

[Calemyr]

How about this? Othar sees Klaus as "the devil you know". Othar expects him to be a devious amoral mad scientist and Klaus pretty much cops to that description. Klaus, however, held that not only have his actions been necessary, they have worked. And Othar has to acknowledge it, much as he may not like to. He may view the Wulfenbachs as brutal tyrants and villains, but they're that special kind of villain. The kind you can somehow trust, in a warped way. He'd kill you in a heartbeat, but he'd never poison your dinner. He'd burn your village to the ground and sleep well that night, but he wouldn't do so without a very solid reason behind it. He wants a world that works, not to be the king of ashes.

He sees the Wulfenbachs as... oh, the Penguin or Lex Luthor, in their more refined incarnations. Evil that should be stomped out if the opportunity ever arose, but also can be counted on when their interests coincide with yours. Evil that, no matter how much you may despise them, you can still trust to watch your back when the chips are down. Oh, they'll betray you the second the danger has passed, yes, but there are few allies more valuable until that point.

Klaus may be willing to conquer towns with unsurmountable force, cut peoples brains up with only a passing concern for their quality (or existence) of life afterwards, employ amoral killing machines, or even make an immoral killing machine his second in command. Klaus may rule with an iron fist and restrict freedoms that inconvenience him and disregard the stature of the aristocracy, and he may step on the innocent in order to crush the guilty... he may be all these horrible, evil things, but he can be counted on to fight the Other against all hope and all reason.

[eschmenk]

He'd burn your village to the ground and sleep well that night, but he wouldn't do so without a very solid reason behind it. He wants a world that works, not to be the king of ashes.

Is that truly villainous in the context of GG, though? Klaus does bad things in order to prevent far worse things. I think that Othar probably understands this, although he often acts as if he doesn't.

I thought that what you said here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=20119018&postcount=103) explained things well. I think there probably is a bit more to it than that, though. I think that Othar very much wants to be a simplistic hero as in the Heterodyne stories and allows himself to behave that way most of the time. However, when it becomes too obvious that to act that way would be harmful, he suppresses that urge. (What he's suppressing still crops up in the way he mutters under his breath, though.)

Whenever Othar is playing the simplistic hero and Klaus is opposing him, Klaus would automatically be cast as the villain. I think that at a deeper level, Othar understands that it's not really that simplistic, though.

This is pretty meta, but Phil has experience in improv theater and pretty obviously tends to be a big ham. It's probably not surprising that Phil would enjoy having a character that had urges to be a big, silly, over-the-top hero.

[wingnutx]

I see that a bit differently. I don't think Othar's mission to kill all Sparks is "pretending" at all. However, he's still aware that not all Sparks are created equal and that some are more worthy targets than others, so he will accept an alliance of convenience with one if it will get him closer to his objective. That doesn't mean he won't turn around and try to kill Gil at some point in the future, it's just it won't happen until he's sure he can't get any more use out of the alliance.

Exactly. He's just doing triage and prioritizing.

[factotum]

New comic sounds a bit ominous.


Chronobore outer base is presumably where the tunnel of real time into the centre of Mechanicsburg starts, so if it goes down, that will probably collapse all the real-time tunnels--Gil did say they were very unstable. What's the betting this all ends up with Othar escaping while Gil remains behind, trapped in Mechanicsburg?

[lord_khaine]

I really.. really love Gils comment in that last panel :smalltongue:

And else i dont think we will see Gil frozen in time at this point, he is still to central to the actual story, especially now with his father in his head.

[eschmenk]

I'm a little worried that Othar might cause some trouble while Gil is distracted by the attack, but not particularly. It's probably more likely that he'll do something that will seem stupid, but will save Tarvek from Maretellus's poison or something like that.

I'm fairly sure that's Tarvek and Vanamonde von Mekkhan in the center of the fourth panel. Compare with their poses in the top panel here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20130503).

(Damn, it's been so long that I had to look up Van's name and how to spell Tarvek's. Yes, I could have just looked on the current page for Tarvek's name, but didn't think to do that. Well, some of that was probably lack of coffee.)

[lord_khaine]

Im not worried that Othar will cause any real problems at all, besides by being Othar of course.

But the tunnel is full of innocent people, so he is going to fight to his last breath to defend the stability of it.

[eee]

OK, now who would be attacking Gil in his own Empire? Martellus and Seffie are in Paris, we haven't heard of any other power players giving him problems... I think it's Lucrezia. Attacking at a time when Gil is stuck under Mechanicsberg, and hence vulnerable. Possibly alerted by her agents among his forces... This could be interesting. We haven't seen what's going on with the Other's forces these days, beyond the mini-wasp engines, the Queen of the North stuff, and the planned attack on Paris. This could tell us if it's 'Anevka' or Zola calling the shots.

[eschmenk]

It could be an attack from Lucrezia or Zola, but there are many other possibilities. It could be a random spark or maybe Vole got loose or maybe a messenger from Paris is trying too hard to get through or maybe the castle is upset that Gil is worrying more about Tarvek then telling Agatha about the time lord threat or maybe the castle just likes to keep things interesting or maybe the Dreen is mad that Gil hasn't left for Paris yet or who knows what? It might even just be a misunderstanding, rather than an attack. If Lucrezia or Zola or Martellus are responsible, it's probably a real attack, but it's probably just intended to distract Gil and keep him from coming to Paris rather than something full-blown.

Personally, I'm eager to find out about Krosp and the Bears. Maybe it has something to do with them. An army of bears showing up would seem like an attack, too.

[Aquillion]

Interesting. This page seems to lend more support to the idea that Othar is more flexible about his views on sparks than we thought before -- even aside from Agatha, he indicates that he now sees Tarvek as a "good" Spark, and he was willing to consider that he might have been wrong about Gil.

[The Glyphstone]

He's still going to kill them all, but the good ones he can save for last after everyone else is dealt with. After all, being 'good', they will understand and empathize with his need to eliminate the Spark from existence.

[eschmenk]

Interesting. This page seems to lend more support to the idea that Othar is more flexible about his views on sparks than we thought before -- even aside from Agatha, he indicates that he now sees Tarvek as a "good" Spark, and he was willing to consider that he might have been wrong about Gil.

Well, Othar did take on Tarvek as a project (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120326) and he also took a shine to Violetta (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120509). :smallamused:

More seriously, Othar demonstrated that he's capable of working constructively with other sparks (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121121).

[HandofShadows]

More seriously, Othar demonstrated that he's capable of working constructively with other sparks (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121121).

Until it is time to kill them of course.

[eschmenk]

Until it is time to kill them of course.

Seriously, if he really wanted to kill them, why not then or some other time when he had the chance? Why aren't they worried that he might try?

I don't think it will ever be time for Othar to kill a spark who doesn't need to be killed. I think there is a mad scientist part of Othar that really wants to defeat all villains and all their nefarious plans and kill all sparks so they can't threaten everyone else, but I think Othar can keep that part of him under control. Of course if there is an evil spark around who's terrorizing villagers, he doesn't need to keep it under control all that well.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Gil has a pretty good grasp on how far up the wall being Othar's 'lackey' will drive Tarvek. That is to say, up the wall, across the ceiling, down the wall, across the floor and back up the wall.

[Haar]

Really, Gil? You can't think of ANYTHING worse? Like, say, being poisoned by your own cousin which leads to instant paralysis and a painful death over the course of a half hour?

[Traab]

Really, Gil? You can't think of ANYTHING worse? Like, say, being poisoned by your own cousin which leads to instant paralysis and a painful death over the course of a half hour?

Yeah but thats over in a half an hour. Being hounded by othar lasts a lifetime. And you say "by your own cousin" as if that would mean anything special to tarvek. His entire family is nothing but back stabbing power hungry opportunists. Im pretty sure they make certain every birth is twins just so they can see which one strangles the other in its crib and places the blame on an auntie they dont like.

[Douglas]

Im pretty sure they make certain every birth is twins just so they can see which one strangles the other in its crib and places the blame on an auntie they dont like.
Gross slander! No Sturmvoraus would dream of accepting anything less than triplets, with a sole survivor who murdered both of the other two (while arranging for it to look like they killed each other)!

[hajo]

Yeah but thats over in a half an hour.
Being hounded by othar lasts a lifetime.
One could argue that this "half an hour" also "lasts a lifetime" :smallyuk:
And the time with Othar might have a few funny/happy moments...

[eee]

Uh-oh.

It's not looking good. Let's hope Gil has paid attention to the warning that Tarvek was poisoned, and is prepared for emergency action to counteract that.

I'm somewhat surprised they have a breach suit in Othar's size.

Bang has been being amazingly quiet and almost docile during all this. I hope she's all right.

[DukeGod]

Uh-oh.

It's not looking good. Let's hope Gil has paid attention to the warning that Tarvek was poisoned, and is prepared for emergency action to counteract that.

I'm somewhat surprised they have a breach suit in Othar's size.

Bang has been being amazingly quiet and almost docile during all this. I hope she's all right.

Just kill him and bring him back to life again. Si Vales Valeo round 2!

[Tyrrell]

I know I'm two and a half years late but I just noticed that the Baron's time stopping device went off when the readout read 5 in perfect evil overlord list style. Bravo

[Calemyr]

I know I'm two and a half years late but I just noticed that the Baron's time stopping device went off when the readout read 5 in perfect evil overlord list style. Bravo

I always read the 5 as meaning the time bomb will resume proper time in 5 years, so Agatha managed to get out halfway through the duration of the time freeze.

The idea of a time bomb that goes off with 5 seconds to spare, however, is very much in keeping with the style of Girl Genius and quite hilarious to consider.

[Rodin]

I assume that Gil knows that Tarvek's been poisoned. I mean, the pose he was frozen in makes that pretty obvious. If you look at him in the background of Wednesday's strip, you can see him laying on the ground clutching at his heart with (presumably) the dagger still in him, and Vanamonde leaning over him in concern. I would be very surprised if Gil and his doctors aren't aware that something is seriously awry.

[eschmenk]

I assume that Gil knows that Tarvek's been poisoned. I mean, the pose he was frozen in makes that pretty obvious. If you look at him in the background of Wednesday's strip, you can see him laying on the ground clutching at his heart with (presumably) the dagger still in him, and Vanamonde leaning over him in concern. I would be very surprised if Gil and his doctors aren't aware that something is seriously awry.

Agatha sent a message telling Gil that Tarvek was poisoned. (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131227)

[Scarlet Knight]

Is it my imagination, but is Gil copping a feel in panel 4? Bang does not look amused.

[factotum]

Is it my imagination, but is Gil copping a feel in panel 4? Bang does not look amused.

I don't think so, for two reasons:

a) She's dressed in the same sort of time suit that Gil is by that point, so it would be like trying to cop a feel through thick leather armour.

b) He's not dead yet.

[The Glyphstone]

and c. that is so vastly out of Gil's characterization to begin with.

[Traab]

He is helping her pull it on properly imo. But yeah, it does sorta look like a grope. :p

[Calemyr]

b) He's not dead yet.

Honestly, I'd expect the opposite reaction. My impression of their relationship is that she'd like him a lot more if he was more proactive and a little more selfish. In general, I mean. I kinda expect her reaction to something like that (innocent or no) would be less "You die now, baka!" and more "Ooh, promising.", in a playful and flirty way. This is Bang we're talking about, After all. She's basically Zeetha's alternate. (Also note that those are really the only two girls in the primary cast that I expect would play up an incident like that rather than react negatively.)

[HandofShadows]

I think the reason that either Zeetha or Bang might play up such a thing is because they know Gil would be VERY embarrassed and that he wasn't trying anything with them.

[eschmenk]

I kinda expect her reaction to something like that (innocent or no) would be less "You die now, baka!" and more "Ooh, promising.", in a playful and flirty way. This is Bang we're talking about, After all.

I don't think those are distinct concepts in Bang's mind.

[lord_khaine]

And let us recall how Bang were slightly mocking Gil when he had her strapped down and prepared for doing medical experiments, because that were all he had on his mind :smalltongue:

[Scarlet Knight]

Looking at the latest comic, I don't remember Violetta being drawn so..."elegantly compact". No wonder the Mole King was admiring her.

[stsasser]

And let us recall how Bang were slightly mocking Gil when he had her strapped down and prepared for doing medical experiments, because that were all he had on his mind :smalltongue:

Bang may well be looking so unamused because Gil treats her in a completely asexual manner, not even noticing what he is touching.

[Ellen]

Jenka or Mama?

[Ailurus]

Well, now. That's an interesting development.


Hmmm. Dimo claimed that all the Generals were trapped in the time-bubble, but now this suggests that the sneaky general may not have been in there. Unless there's another Mechanicsburg Spymaster that has connections to the Jaegers.

Also, the Jaegers are indeed getting much better at being Sottil. Doubt the diplomat is full jaeger, but it really sounds like her friend is. Which means we have Jaegers at a wedding party, which means it's time to get the popcorn out

[Rogar Demonblud]

"Get the popcorn out"? You'll have to excuse my skepticism, but I've never seen someone spell 'make sure the insurance is paid up' that way before.

[HandofShadows]

Well, now. That's an interesting development.


Hmmm. Dimo claimed that all the Generals were trapped in the time-bubble, but now this suggests that the sneaky general may not have been in there. Unless there's another Mechanicsburg Spymaster that has connections to the Jaegers.

Also, the Jaegers are indeed getting much better at being Sottil. Doubt the diplomat is full jaeger, but it really sounds like her friend is. Which means we have Jaegers at a wedding party, which means it's time to get the popcorn out


I wonder if it could be Dimo who is the spymaster. Hair color is about right and so is the length. :smallamused:

[factotum]

Jenka or Mama?

Why does it have to be one or the other? It's not beyond the bound of possibility that there are three female Jagers in the world.

(And it's definitely not Mama Gkika, because she had very obvious tusks which this lady does not possess--not to mention being about seven feet tall!).

[gbs5009]

(And it's definitely not Mama Ginka, because she had very obvious tusks which this lady does not possess--not to mention being about seven feet tall!).

I don't think it's Jenka either, unless she has color changing eyes. I guess given Ginka's skin, that's not outside the realm of possibility.

I guess she could also be wearing colored contacts. It would be a bit anachronistic, but when you have spring-powered sentient machines all bets are off.

[stsasser]

She doesn't speak with a Jaeger accent, but is very long lived...the muse Clio with a skin upgrade?

And does she have her Jaeger on a leash??

[Ailurus]

"Get the popcorn out"? You'll have to excuse my skepticism, but I've never seen someone spell 'make sure the insurance is paid up' that way before.

Hoffman, Agatha and Colette need to make sure the insurance is paid up (for the event when this war 'ending' engagement collapses, to make sure the Master doesn't flip and kick her out, and to make sure her father's city doesn't get invaded from underground). We just get to watch, so, yeah, sounds like popcorn time to me.

[eee]

Oh OH *OH*, this is interesting! She may not be a Jager, she may just be mimicking a Jager accent. Or, if she is very long lived (as is indicated), speaking as they did back in Mechanicsberg in the old days. Which is, I gather, why the Jagers talk as they do.

But unless she IS Jenka, then her response to "Have we met" would seem to be a lie. Or a bit of diplomatic fast talk.

The guy, though. I assume it's a guy. He too speaks with a Jager accent, but he's not wearing a hat. If he is a Jager he'd have to be one Agatha knows and trusts, especially after Vole. Dimo would seem the main candidate: She trusts him completely, he's currently missing from her entourage, he'd knows whether or not what's-her-name is telling the truth... Dimo has a dark purple sheen to his hair, but it might be the feathers from what's-her-name's hat are shadowing him. And that Dimo did not rush forward to greet Agatha because he DOESN'T have his hat, and is dressed funny...

I suppose it's too much to hope it's von Zinzer trying to speak around a mouthful of food.

[factotum]

I suppose it's too much to hope it's von Zinzer trying to speak around a mouthful of food.

I really hope it's *not* him, because there's no indication he even got out of the castle basement before Mechanicsburg was frozen, much less out of the city entirely.

[halfeye]

That Jager looks like the old Vole to me.

[eee]

I really hope it's *not* him, because there's no indication he even got out of the castle basement before Mechanicsburg was frozen, much less out of the city entirely.

I believe that last time we saw von Zinzer, he had just reduced Snaug to murderous confusion by telling her he felt the same way about her as he did about Sanaa, so apparently attractive women do that to him and he clearly knows nothing about love.

He didn't add Violetta to the list; maybe he should have.

That was after the Empire had retreated from Mechanicsburg and the city was safe, but before Tweedle grabbed Agatha and tried to make off with her. That Moloch, whose curse seems to be he'll always be at hand when Agatha needs him and that's why he's chief minion no matter how much he screams in terror at the idea, WASN'T there to intervene is... strange. He may have left the city prior to that - getting while the getting was good - and now be out and about in the world.

We know he and Gil will be there while Agatha is experimenting with the Time Windows. It's not clear if Mechanicsburg will have been freed before that.

[Divayth Fyr]

I believe this (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20121221) may be the last time we saw Moloch - it certainly is possible he left town before Klaus dropped in for his visit.

Though it is almost certainly not him.

[eschmenk]

Huh, I didn't notice until now that we started a new book (Act 2, Volume 3) a couple of weeks ago (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151125). It happened in the middle of a scene, although the final page for Act 2, Volume 2 (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20151123) is a splash page.

I wonder of the castlebot can verify what the lady is saying on the current page.

[Qwertystop]

Also, it changed from "Act 2" to "Second Journey" at the bottom of the page.

[dps]

Honestly, I'd expect the opposite reaction. My impression of their relationship is that she'd like him a lot more if he was more proactive and a little more selfish. In general, I mean. I kinda expect her reaction to something like that (innocent or no) would be less "You die now, baka!" and more "Ooh, promising.", in a playful and flirty way. This is Bang we're talking about, After all. She's basically Zeetha's alternate. (Also note that those are really the only two girls in the primary cast that I expect would play up an incident like that rather than react negatively.)

Hmm. I don't think we've ever seen anyone make a pass at Bang. Might be interesting to see her reaction (though, of course, I suppose that there would be some variation depending on exactly who it was making the pass).

[Aquillion]

Hmm. I don't think we've ever seen anyone make a pass at Bang. Might be interesting to see her reaction (though, of course, I suppose that there would be some variation depending on exactly who it was making the pass).
Odd. Von Pinn is popular with the Jaegers; you'd think Bang would be, too.

(Although maybe it's because unlike Von Pinn, Bang actually kills them if they become a bother rather than than just beating them up.)

[factotum]

Odd. Von Pinn is popular with the Jaegers; you'd think Bang would be, too.

Von Pinn actually looked quite monstrous as well as *being* monstrous--she had fangs and claws! Bang looks like a perfectly normal human, so maybe she's not to a typical Jager's taste?

[petersohn]

This Jäger girl looks too much like Seffie to me.

[eschmenk]

Von Pinn actually looked quite monstrous as well as *being* monstrous--she had fangs and claws! Bang looks like a perfectly normal human, so maybe she's not to a typical Jager's taste?

Girls presumably without fangs and claws seemed to be to a Jäger's taste (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20111216). Also here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20120921). And here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100614). I don't think most Jägers needed women to be scary to be attracted to them.

[BRC]

This Jäger girl looks too much like Seffie to me.
She and Martellus WERE preparing for a Masquerade...

[Ellen]

Jenka!

There were only two female Jagers I figured counted as having "met" Agatha. I knew Mama was a longshot, but her changing power could have gone further than just color.

[Grif]

Oh huh, I recognise that bear (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050606#.VmphzobEKUl).

[petersohn]

Oh huh, I recognise that bear (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20050606#.VmphzobEKUl).
Wow. Art style has changed so much since then.

[factotum]

OK, apparently there *are* only two female Jagers in the world. :smallsigh:

[petersohn]

OK, apparently there *are* only two female Jagers in the world. :smallsigh:
Not necessary. There are 2 we know of, and storywise it wouldn't make much sense to introduce a new one right now.

[eee]

Sonuvagun! It IS Jenka!! That scarf covered up a really attractive face!

I hope Jenka apologizes for threatening to break Agatha's fingers in Zumzum. I have no doubt Agatha will forgive her, she's got a really soft spot for her Jagers. And also that we also get an explanation for how an old Jager could stand that close to a Heterodyne and not go "Wait, that smell... COULD IT BE???"

[Aquillion]

Sonuvagun! It IS Jenka!! That scarf covered up a really attractive face!

I hope Jenka apologizes for threatening to break Agatha's fingers in Zumzum. I have no doubt Agatha will forgive her, she's got a really soft spot for her Jagers. And also that we also get an explanation for how an old Jager could stand that close to a Heterodyne and not go "Wait, that smell... COULD IT BE???"She was only close for a few moments, in the middle of a fight, and was wearing a mask that covered her face. It's taken most Jaegers a little while to notice (Dimo was the exception, but he was noted as being really good at it), and she just didn't have the chance because she was run out of town almost immediately.

[BRC]

Am I the only one having some trouble parsing Dimo's lines in panel 3?

Specifically "De Master Ov Paris Likes Us Jagers vorse den he likes de Heterodynes".
It's the "Likes us worse" bit that's tripping me up. There are two ways to read it, especially since we don't learn what he was going to say after "So Hy Just" as a response to "What are you doing here!"

"Likes us Worse"="Hates us More" "So I just shaved and cleaned myself up to get into the city"
Or "Likes Us Worse"= "Does not hate us as much, so Jaegers are allowed in the city"

[BannedInSchool]

Am I the only one having some trouble parsing Dimo's lines in panel 3?
I'd say it's just the opposite of "likes us better", which is disliking them more.

[BRC]

I'd say it's just the opposite of "likes us better", which is disliking them more.

That was my instinct, but it does not provide an answer to the question "What are you doing here?"

Unless By "Here" she means "The underground". Because The Master hates the Jaegers even more, Dimo went straight to the underground when they got into paris.

[Lethologica]

That was my instinct, but it does not provide an answer to the question "What are you doing here?"

Unless By "Here" she means "The underground". Because The Master hates the Jaegers even more, Dimo went straight to the underground when they got into paris.
That's how I read it.

[eschmenk]

Unless By "Here" she means "The underground". Because The Master hates the Jaegers even more, Dimo went straight to the underground when they got into paris.

Well, not quite that quickly, but as soon as he saw the Master in person (girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20150817).

[Douglas]

"Likes us Worse"="Hates us More" "So I just shaved and cleaned myself up to get into the city"
Or "Likes Us Worse"= "Does not hate us as much, so Jaegers are allowed in the city"
I don't think the latter one is actually a valid way to parse it. It certainly would never have occurred to me without you mentioning it.

[wingnutx]

I am looking forward to the Jenka paper dolls.

[wingnutx]

Jenka ran into Agatha just after she was reunited with the Jaegers (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131101#.Vmyg3fkrKUk), but perhaps Agatha was too preoccupied to notice.

[geoduck]

I hope Jenka apologizes for threatening to break Agatha's fingers in Zumzum.

Which she did only after Agatha tried to shoot her with a death ray. I think they're pretty even at this point.

And it's pretty clear that Jenka isn't being metaphorical about "different faces"; even her eyes have changed shape and color.

[Rockphed]

Which she did only after Agatha tried to shoot her with a death ray. I think they're pretty even at this point.

And it's pretty clear that Jenka isn't being metaphorical about "different faces"; even her eyes have changed shape and color.

I wonder how much of that is from cleaning off the road-grime that inevitably builds up.

[wingnutx]

Every Jaeger gets a special gift.

[Traab]

Think she might be the spy general that was missing from the jager meeting at mechanicsburg? Being able to change her appearance and pass for human (and a rather attractive human at that) I know previously she said she had a message from the spymaster, but its not exactly a difficult bluff to pretend its someone else. As the head of the diplomatic corp it makes even more sense, diplomat is just another term for spy in this day and age.

[Cracklord]

…Dimo cleans up surprisingly well…

[eee]

Which she did only after Agatha tried to shoot her with a death ray. I think they're pretty even at this point.

Don't forget, Agatha was having a lot of trouble with rampaging monsters back then. The clank that killed Olga, the horse; Jenka looked like just more of the same. That Jenka so easily avoided the beam and took the time to grab Agatha's hand and threaten her fingers, instead of just decking her, shows she didn't really consider Agatha a threat. Which was a mistake. She might want to apologize for that.

But yes, they probably will let bygones be bygones.


And it's pretty clear that Jenka isn't being metaphorical about "different faces"; even her eyes have changed shape and color.

This would appear to be true. On the other hand, makeup can do wonders. We'll see soon enough.

[petersohn]

Jenka ran into Agatha just after she was reunited with the Jaegers (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131101#.Vmyg3fkrKUk), but perhaps Agatha was too preoccupied to notice.
That Jenka looks like this Jenka, by the way. The art has changed so much since we first saw her.

[SZbNAhL]

Jenka ran into Agatha just after she was reunited with the Jaegers (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20131101#.Vmyg3fkrKUk), but perhaps Agatha was too preoccupied to notice.

Ooh, I'd forgotten about that. My assumption had been that Jenka had been in Paris since an unspecified time before or during the timeskip, but if she were near Mechanicsburg at the same time Agatha was and couldn't take the train (what with the network being destroyed and all), she must have her own way of travelling across large distances (I seem to recall Mechanicsberg being somewhere in Romania and Paris is, well, Paris) in short timespans. Is Furst just a really fast mount?

[eschmenk]

I seem to recall Mechanicsberg being somewhere in Romania

Yes, Mechanicsburg seems to be somewhat loosely based on Brașov in Romania. The Red Cathedral seems to be based on the Black Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biserica_Neagr%C4%83) there and Castle Heterodyne seems to be based on Castle Bran (http://bran-castle.com/), which actually guarded a pass a few miles outside the town. (It's also the the castle in the novel Dracula.) According to this map (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-szjzztGdx2o/Tlz47umioPI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/O_2pjIYPyf0/s1600/Europa%2BWulfenbach%2BMap.jpg), Mechanicsburg is located where Brașov is located in RL. (The mountains don't match RL very well, but the rivers do.)

I guess Füst just lets Jenka travel quickly.

[geoduck]

Also, Jenka could have left for Paris before Agatha, and gotten on a Corbettite train before their system came under attack.

And, yes, OK, she might apologize for not immediately recognizing Agatha as a Heterodyne, if not the whole finger thing specifically.

[Ellen]

Her accent tends to revert when she's talking to Agatha. Hopefully, that won't cause problems.

Although, she obviously hasn't met some of the little dogs I have. I wouldn't bet against them eating anybody.

[eschmenk]

I'd bet the little dogs are easier to flea dip than Füst, though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is Furst just a really fast mount?

If "he is a jaeger bear" means he has partaken of the jaegerbrew, he could easily be very fast - not in top speed, but I suspect jaegers don't need to stop to sleep or eat when they are in a hurry. Also, since they would not have been detained by the attacks on the railways like Agatha was, any difference in speed could have been compensated.

But ultimately, everything moves at the speed of plot.

GW

[eee]

And as it turns out, the apologies are on Agatha's side, sort of.

Jenka sums up the situation quite well. This is a story about monsters.

And somebody gave the Jagerdraught to a BEAR??? Judas Priest. Even for crazies, that's crazy. O_O

[Kantaki]

I have to agree with Jenka's opinion on small dogs. We call them "Fußhupen" where I am from. (Well people who dislike them do. And even then only as a joke.)

Füst is a Jägerbear? As in a bear that is a Jäger? That's Mechanicsburg for you.:smallamused: Didn't expect this, but it isn't very surprising. If you have a potion that creates supersoldiers why shouldn't you test it on small woodland creatures? Especially if your name doesn't even appear in the same dictionary as words like sanity.

[halfeye]

I have to agree with Jenka's opinion on small dogs. We call them "Fußhupen" where I am from. (Well people who dislike them do. And even then only as a joke.)

Füst is a Jägerbear? As in a bear that is a Jäger? That's Mechanicsburg for you.:smallamused: Didn't expect this, but it isn't very surprising. If you have a potion that creates supersoldiers why shouldn't you test it on small woodland creatures? Especially if your name doesn't even appear in the same dictionary as words like sanity.
I wonder what the Jagerbrew would do to altered creatures like Krosp or his bear army? For Science!

[Deliverance]

What sort of twisted maniac would offer the jägerdraught to a bear?

...Right. Heterodyne. Moving on.

[Traab]

If "he is a jaeger bear" means he has partaken of the jaegerbrew, he could easily be very fast - not in top speed, but I suspect jaegers don't need to stop to sleep or eat when they are in a hurry. Also, since they would not have been detained by the attacks on the railways like Agatha was, any difference in speed could have been compensated.

But ultimately, everything moves at the speed of plot.

GW

Also she can travel in more or less a straight line, while the corbites have to meander to town after town and then detoured back to their fortress, etc etc etc. If you travel 600 miles at 30 mph, while they have to travel 1800 miles at 60 mph, you are going to get to the location first.

[HandofShadows]

Jenka sums up the situation quite well. This is a story about monsters.


I don't know. A lot of this story is about people who are doing their best NOT to be monsters. And those around trying to keep them from being monsters as well. Agatha, Gil even the Baron and Tarvek.

[halfeye]

I don't know. A lot of this story is about people who are doing their best NOT to be monsters. And those around trying to keep them from being monsters as well. Agatha, Gil even the Baron and Tarvek.
That's a different useage of the word "monsters". All sparks are monsters for a start, by the first definition, by the second many humans are.