Making the strongest Bard possible

[Hydra98]

Simply what is the BEST way to build a bard, I wish to thoroughly make my DM cringe at the awesomeness that is bard.
And is bard 18/warlock 2 Worth taking over the straight 20.

[woodlandkammao]

Well, that's a little broad. What party role do you want to fill? That's one of the big strengths of the Bard, you can turn it into almost anything, gish, skill monkey, DPR, Healer, etc.

One trick I'd recommend is leeching from paladin and ranger. The 5th level spells unique to those are designed to be balanced as the strongest spells they can cast at 17th level up, and you can tell they didn't think of a Valour bard getting them at 12th level.
Eg, getting swift quiver on a valour bard means 4 bow attacks per round at level 12!

[CNagy]

Strongest bard, eh? Pump strength to 20 and then start looking for Giant Strength belts.

[krugaan]

Strongest bard, eh? Pump strength to 20 and then start looking for Giant Strength belts.

Bazing.

Valor, I guess.

[Hydra98]

Strongest bard, eh? Pump strength to 20 and then start looking for Giant Strength belts.
Lore bard guess I shouldn't have said strongest, what are the spells I should be getting.

[MaxWilson]

Strongest bard, eh? Pump strength to 20 and then start looking for Giant Strength belts.

Also, Athletics Expertise and Enhance Ability (Strength) and either Shield Master or Tavern Brawler. Be a Valor Bard you'll be able to grapple two creatures per round, or grab one creature and hurl it to the ground, at +17 with advantage. To grapple giants and adult dragons you need to steal Enlarge/Reduce as a Magical Secret, or have a friendly wizard who will cast it for you (better, because then no concentration issues).

d20 with advantage+17 beats d20+12 70% of the time, and you get two tries, so you'll be able to grapple Fire Giants (Athletics +12) with 98% probability!!! And 85% of the time you'll succeed the first time and will be able to push them face-down too. They are the strongest creatures I know of and you're going to manhandle them like a thing that gets manhandled by a stronger thing. Probably take away their weapons too. If a warlock Hexes the fire giant your success rate per attempt goes up to 94% on a single attempt, 99.64% on two.

And his chances of breaking free are even smaller, because then you win ties instead of him.

[PoeticDwarf]

Well, that's a little broad. What party role do you want to fill? That's one of the big strengths of the Bard, you can turn it into almost anything, gish, skill monkey, DPR, Healer, etc.

One trick I'd recommend is leeching from paladin and ranger. The 5th level spells unique to those are designed to be balanced as the strongest spells they can cast at 17th level up, and you can tell they didn't think of a Valour bard getting them at 12th level.
Eg, getting swift quiver on a valour bard means 4 bow attacks per round at level 12!

Even at level 10, but that isn't even that strong. You have to keep concentration and use your slots, better just go for hand crossbow.

If you want a damage bard go 2 warlock or even better hand crossbowing valor bard (stealing fire shield and/or armor of agaathys).
If you want to be the skill monkey just go lore and take spells as enchance ability.
If you want to just be powerful, steal spells as wish, take polymorph and that sort of spells and just be stronger than the wizard.

I really think bard is the most powerful class in 5e (high and mid level, the ranger, monk, cleric and druid are stronger low level, and the moon druid level 20 of course).

[Daehron]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377491

Class guides are listed. There is at least one "Lore Bard" class guide.

[JumboWheat01]

A Lore Bard, ne? Well, you probably want to be a Half-Elf off the bat, first for the sweet +2 Charisma, second for the +2 skills. Add that to the two skills from your background and the SIX from being a Lore Bard, and you are a skill monkey beyond compare. You wouldn't even need to fight, just skill your way through whatever comes across your way.

[JellyPooga]

Thinking specifically about Magical Secrets, here's some suggestions of particularly useful and/or powerful spells that aren't on the Bard list;
[NB- I'm only listing spells of the highest possible level you're able to take at the levels you gain Magical Secrets; there is definitely something to be said about taking lower level spells, but I'm not about to list every useful spell in the book!]

Lvl.6 - (up to 3rd lvl. spells)
Conjure Animals
Counterspell
Fly
Haste
Mass Healing Word
Meld into Stone
Lvl.10 - (up to 5th)
Conjure Elemental (and/or Elemental Swarm / Woodland Beings)
Telekinesis
Wall of Force
Wall of Stone
Lvl.14 - (up to 7th)
Conjure Celestial
Fire Storm
Simulacrum
Lvl.18 - (up to 9th)
Gate
Mass Heal
Shapechange
Time Stop
Wish (of course)

[MaxWilson]

RE: Magical Secrets for 6th level, Aura of Vitality is amazing and my #1 pick. It gives you two to three times more healing than a life cleric and makes your buddies almost immune to any solo monster (like 10 free Healing Words per combat for popup healing) in a way similar to the Regeneration spell at 7th level.

Conjure Animals is hands-down the best conjuring spell: cheapest, most effective, and castable in 1 Action instead of 1 Minute so is usable even during combat.

My favorite in-combat combo for a bard X/warlock 2, though it's usually overkill, is to fill a chokepoint with (Magical Secrets) Spike Growth and then use Agonizing Repelling Blast to blast back any enemies which try to gingerly cross the spikes. It adds an extra +4d4 damage per hit (way better than Hex), makes the spiked area difficult terrain, and also inflicts 4d4 damage when they return. As I say, it's overkill against most things, but if you're in e.g. a 4x Deadly encounter fighting five Slaads (two Death, three Blue) at 10th level it can significantly increase the bard's damage output for the cost of only a 2nd level spell--though it won't win the combat outright like Conjure Animals V would.

[EvilAnagram]

Simply what is the BEST way to build a bard, I wish to thoroughly make my DM cringe at the awesomeness that is bard.
And is bard 18/warlock 2 Worth taking over the straight 20.

I have a fairly comprehensive guide in my signature. For Magical Secrets, I like Counterspell, Conjure Woodland Beings, and Reverse Gravity.

[AeonsShadow]

Remember, bards aren't made for prolonged direct combat.

You want the ULTIMATE BARD? Do what I do: MAKE A TROLL (not the species)

Control the field and control the outcome. Similar to a GOD wizard, you say who lives and dies, and make them so infuriated half of them slit thier own throats to get away from you.

And this means one OTHER thing too: BE PREPARED~! (cue song here) Potions! bombs! flasks of holy (dwarven*) water! Any problem you find? you have a tool for! hell, at higher levels I was still using the adamantine CROWBAR I bought for ****s and giggles. Had it enchanted with knock 3/day and shillelagh 2/day and I never needed a close range weapon again! Think about out of combat uses for your magic just as much for in combat. If your DM is a stickler for details make sure you got something up your sleeve! and be creative with it, don't be afraid to have fun with your toys! I kept a spare bag of holding that I filled with nothing but seawater once. no one knew about it but the DM, and I never had a use for it. Until I was eaten by a purple worm. Drowned it by upturning the bag, and flooding my way out.With bards they aren't really FOCUSED in any ONE field. but that's what makes them so damn amazing, because they can fill ANY ROLE to a point and not bat an eye~!



*Dwarven holy water=Sanctified booze

[JumboWheat01]

Remember, bards aren't made for prolonged direct combat.

You want the ULTIMATE BARD? Do what I do: MAKE A TROLL (not the species)

Control the field and control the outcome. Similar to a GOD wizard, you say who lives and dies, and make them so infuriated half of them slit thier own throats to get away from you.

And this means one OTHER thing too: BE PREPARED~! (cue song here) Potions! bombs! flasks of holy (dwarven*) water! Any problem you find? you have a tool for! hell, at higher levels I was still using the adamantine CROWBAR I bought for ****s and giggles. Had it enchanted with knock 3/day and shillelagh 2/day and I never needed a close range weapon again! Think about out of combat uses for your magic just as much for in combat. If your DM is a stickler for details make sure you got something up your sleeve! and be creative with it, don't be afraid to have fun with your toys! I kept a spare bag of holding that I filled with nothing but seawater once. no one knew about it but the DM, and I never had a use for it. Until I was eaten by a purple worm. Drowned it by upturning the bag, and flooding my way out.With bards they aren't really FOCUSED in any ONE field. but that's what makes them so damn amazing, because they can fill ANY ROLE to a point and not bat an eye~!



*Dwarven holy water=Sanctified booze


That is some of the most diabolically genius things I have ever seen. I'm normally a Good-type character, but if I ever make an Evil-type one, I am so making a bard and borrowing some of that. It's just so deliciously evil.

[bid]

A Lore Bard, ne? Well, you probably want to be a Half-Elf off the bat, first for the sweet +2 Charisma, second for the +2 skills.
I used to think that, but lore is SAD enough that variant human works great too. Half-elf can start Dex16/Cha16 which helps more for valor.

[JellyPooga]

I used to think that, but lore is SAD enough that variant human works great too. Half-elf can start Dex16/Cha16 which helps more for valor.

It's a fair point; Half-Elf for a Lore Bard is actually a little redundant. You've already got a bajillion skill proficiencies and Jack-of-All makes up for the rest. Another two is just icing, really. The other features of a Bard can be replicated by other Races, quite easily. The only thing Half-Elf really contributes to Bard is +2 Charisma.

(Variant) Human or Halfling would be my choice (probably the latter), but Dragonborn, Tiefling or Drow (if "monster" races are your thing) also do admirably.

[gullveig]

Why no one said Dragonborn? +2 Strength and +2 Charisma can make you a really strong bard.

[MaxWilson]

Why no one said Dragonborn? +2 Strength and +2 Charisma can make you a really strong bard.

Dragonborn get +2 Str and +1 Cha.

I think a major reason why races aren't factoring heavily in the discussion is that in 5E, racial bonuses don't change your minima and maxima. The strongest Dragonborn are no stronger than the strongest humans. Might be a good thing to house rule actually.

[AeonsShadow]

That is some of the most diabolically genius things I have ever seen. I'm normally a Good-type character, but if I ever make an Evil-type one, I am so making a bard and borrowing some of that. It's just so deliciously evil.

*bows* Thank you~ And remember, a hero is always remember, but to a bard, THE LEGENDS NEVER DIE!

[Degwerks]

I've been thinking of a Lore Bard 15/5 blade pact Undying Light Warlock.
Pilfer some powerful paladin radiant damage spells. Lots of stuff open.

[JellyPooga]

Why no one said Dragonborn? +2 Strength and +2 Charisma can make you a really strong bard.

Sorry to be a stickler, but I did...


(Variant) Human or Halfling would be my choice (probably the latter), but Dragonborn, Tiefling or Drow (if "monster" races are your thing) also do admirably.

To expand, though; Dragonborn make good Valour Bards because of their Strength boost. Lore Bards, whilst competent enough in a brawl, tend to be more spellcasting and skill focused (otherwise they'd have gone Valour) and there's little the Dragonborn offers in support of these areas.

[Degwerks]

I think my next character will be a half-elf with sage background. Lore Bard with a dip or 5 into Blade-lock. Eventually having 10 skills & 3 languages of my choice.

Might switch to Tome Pact though, rituals & extra cantrips could get handy down the road if WoTC puts out new rituals/cantrips.