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View Full Version : Are there zombie-like undead with "memories of the past"?



SangoProduction
2015-11-13, 10:39 AM
By "zombie" I do mean modern zombies, not the raise undead zombies (ie. are mostly mindless, but still hunt down people for whatever reason). And by "memories of the past" I mean they remember what their past lives were, and act in a sick imitation of it.

Reason for me asking is I recently watched School-Live (easily one of my favorite stories now - and best of all, you only need 1 full episode to make it your favorite), and I liked the what the idea. Obviously, one can just Rule 0 it and say "this is how they work" but I'm just curious if such a creature exists in RAW.

Clearly the intelligent undead (vampires, liches, etc) would (often times) remember their past lives, but aren't that "mostly mindless" feel that modern zombies have.

BowStreetRunner
2015-11-13, 10:49 AM
The description of Ghouls and Ghasts indicates the transformation has 'warped' their minds, but not wiped their memories.

hamishspence
2015-11-13, 10:54 AM
Complete Divine takes that approach as well:


Complete Divine (p126):


The souls of characters who die in specific ways sometimes become undead. Those driven to suicide by madness become allips, while humanoids destroyed by absolute evil become bodaks. As with ghosts, the soul creates a new body, whether it's incorporeal such as an allip's or corporeal such as a bodak's. The soul is twisted toward evil if it wasn't already. The new undead creature retains some general memories of its former life, but doesn't necessarily have the same mental ability scores, skills, feats or other abilities. Not every suicide victim becomes an allip, and not everyone destroyed by absolute evil becomes a bodak; as with ghosts, the exact nature of the transformation is unknown. Similarly, liches are characters who've voluntarily transformed themselves into undead, trapping their souls in skeletal bodies.

Some undead such as wights and vampires create spawn out of a character they kill, trapping the soul of the deceased in a body animated by negative energy and controlled by a malign intelligence. Sometimes the undead creature can access the memories of the deceased (vampires, spectres, ghouls, and ghasts can) and sometimes they can't (as with shadows, wraiths and wights).

SangoProduction
2015-11-13, 11:10 AM
interesting. I'll look at those.

EDIT: Interesting. Ghouls are like the modern zombie. Can't seem to find the fluff, but still.

Uncle Pine
2015-11-13, 11:43 AM
I don't know if Libris Mortis has sone fluff on it, but Awaken Undead grants mindless undeads like zombies the proficiencies, feats, extraordinary racial abilities and at least part of the Intelligence they had in life. Since they regain the Int they previously had, one could see reasonable to have them regain their memories (or part of them) as well.
The spell was also reprinted in Spell Compendium.

BowStreetRunner
2015-11-13, 11:53 AM
If you are looking to use the Ghoul as the basis of such a campaign here are some sources you should check out.

Ghoul/Ghast/Lacedon entry (Monster Manual I page 118) for normal, more powerful, and aquatic versions
Famine Spirit entry (MMII page 96) also called ravenous ghoul, for one type of 'boss' ghoul
Spellstitched entry (MMII page 215) for spell-casting ghouls
Gravetouched Ghoul entry (Libris Mortis page 103) for another type of 'boss' ghoul
What happens after you die (Complete Divine page 125) which includes the reference hamishspence posted above explaining ghouls retain their memories
Ghoul/Gast monster class entry (LM page 35) for a better progression option besides the normal methods of monster advancement

hamishspence
2015-11-13, 12:02 PM
Dragon Compendium also has Ghoulish Creature template, Ghastly Creature template, and Ravenous template (which can be added to undead, including ghouls and ghasts).

Inevitability
2015-11-13, 12:08 PM
Libris Mortis has some stuff on using those few memories to convince an undead, even a ravenous one, to not kill you. It only keeps them from eating you a few minutes, though.

PraxisVetli
2015-11-14, 02:31 AM
Dragon Compendium also has Ghoulish Creature template, Ghastly Creature template, and Ravenous template (which can be added to undead, including ghouls and ghasts).

Also from there is the Bodak template, which literally causes creatures to flip their marbles if they see something reminiscent.

Ruethgar
2015-11-14, 05:50 PM
There is of course the Corpse Creature from BoVD.

Zephonim
2015-11-14, 06:03 PM
Awaken undead is also a thing it restores the lost minds of the undead

Rubik
2015-11-14, 06:28 PM
The undead created by the Psianimate Dead power keep their mental ability scores and many of their mental abilities, meaning they likely keep their memories. The power doesn't say specifically, but it's a good way to interpret the power's effects.

nijineko
2015-11-14, 09:57 PM
emancipated spawn prestige class works on creatures generated from a spawn ability, restoring more than just memories.

LudicSavant
2015-11-14, 10:26 PM
Libris Mortis has some stuff on using those few memories to convince an undead, even a ravenous one, to not kill you. It only keeps them from eating you a few minutes, though.

Got a page reference for that?

BowStreetRunner
2015-11-15, 01:16 AM
Got a page reference for that?
Page 12, under Undead Outlook and Psychology, including a variant rule or two.

XionUnborn01
2015-11-15, 01:34 AM
interesting. I'll look at those.

EDIT: Interesting. Ghouls are like the modern zombie. Can't seem to find the fluff, but still.

For what it's worth, George A Romero's creatures in Night of the Living Dead were originally called ghouls.

Inevitability
2015-11-15, 01:51 AM
Awaken undead is also a thing it restores the lost minds of the undead

I thought Awaken Undead created a new mind altogether?

BowStreetRunner
2015-11-16, 11:37 AM
I thought Awaken Undead created a new mind altogether?
First, you need to be aware that the different versions of Awaken Undead are not identical. It appears in three places: Savage Species page 63, Libris Mortis page 62, and Spell Compendium page 21.

The Savage Species version is Cleric 6, Sor/Wiz 7 while the other two versions are Deathbound 6, Sor/Wiz 7.
The Spell Compendium version is Instantaneous while the other two are Permanent (D).
The Libris Mortis version stipulates that they DO NOT regain any skills or feats they had in life, they DO regain armor and weapon proficiencies as well as extraordinary abilities they had in life.
The Savage Species version stipulates that they DO NOT regain any skills, feats, or extraordinary abilities they had in life but DO gain skill points normally after being awakened and armor and weapon proficiencies they had in life.
The Spell Compendium version stipulates they DO regain armor and weapon proficiencies they had in life as well as any extraordinary racial abilities they had in life. It also refers to MM290 to determine skills and feats for the newly awakened creature.

There seems to be a consistent theme of the spell creating an awakened undead with abilities typical of a living version of the same type, but it doesn't make it clear where these abilities are coming from - whether from the recovered memories of the deceased or from somewhere else. The fact that in all three versions the original skills and feats are not returned could be used to argue it has a new mind, rather than awakening the old mind again. However nothing is explicitly stated.

Inevitability
2015-11-16, 12:20 PM
I'm pretty sure Awakened undead don't have the memories of the original creature.

If they did, you could take a human, kill it, animate it as a zombie, destroy the zombie and Resurrect the human, then cast Revive Undead followed by Awaken Undead to create an exact duplicate of the human's mind.

This progress could be repeated infinitely be just killing, reanimating, re-killing, resurrecting, re-reanimating, and awakening the human again, and having it use a thought bottle to restore lost levels.

Acanous
2015-11-16, 02:02 PM
Juju zombies specifically retain memory including class features, abilities, and skills.