Party Betrayal

[Delvnegv]

I'm not generally a bad guy, but apparently, my characters have issues. My party and I have been playing together for a good five or six years, and our campaign has been winding up to finish. My character is a human servant of the Vestiges (Tome of Magic) and is a Fighter 4/Binder 2/Knight of the Sacred Seal 1/Deepwood Sniper 2/Kensai 2. He is an archer that serves the vestige Leraje specifically. In our homebrew setting, the gods have been long gone from the world and the ability to create magic items has been lost to time, so magic items are few and far between. I overcame this challenge using the kensai and deepwood sniper classes. We are currently level 11, but in the next session, my character is set to level to 12. We are also getting close to the end of the story arc. Our party is comprised of a human Favored Soul (of St. Cuthbert), human Rogue/Shadowdancer who hired the favored soul as a body guard, and an assimar dread necromancer who only recently joined the party from another plane of existence that seems to be colliding with our own (poor guy keeps losing character after character after character, over the last six years or so, he's lost 4 or 5 different characters). The plot of our story is that the Rod of Farlhan was the first thing that brought the gods to our plane of existence. Now, the party has been on again/off again with searching for this rod, though my character has had it in his sights the entire game, or at least since it was first mentioned. My character is seeking to use the rod to bring the vestiges back from non-reality to the being in the planes once more. He sees what has happened to them as unjust and undue punishment. Nobody should be taken from reality. So in any case, we have half of the rod, and we need the other half before anybody can stop and think of how to use it. My dilemma lies in the fact that the rogue/shadowdancer has the rod. Douglas (my character) needs the rod. My character is a primary damage dealing source, but is unfortunately, very easily squished. Since I am about to gain a level, I need to find a way to coerce the rod away from the shadowdancer, because without coercion the rest of the party will just squish me and be done. Therefore, I pose this question to all of the optimizers out there:

With my current levels, what one level could I take to gain the ability to snatch the rod away from the rogue/shadowdancer without anyone knowing or else convince the party to let me hold on to it? I only have minimum ranks in diplomacy as required for kensai, but I feel that there must be a spell or some other effect that I could use to get this to happen. Like I said before, I'm fairly certain that this is close to the end-game and this is likely to be my last level, so if there's a way to do it with just one level, I surely need to know. I am open to all kinds of suggestions and ideas. Please lend me a hand with this endeavor.

[Dusk Raven]

An interesting dilemma, but as for the "convince" option... outside of certain spells, I really think it's going to be up to how you roleplay and how you phrase things to the other players. Never seen a Diplomacy roll made against other PCs.

[Uncle Pine]

A Rogue level can net you 9+Int Diplomacy ranks.
A dagger to the spine can get you the rod.

What's your alignment? And why can't you gently ask the Rogue to give you the rod to examine it?

[Delvnegv]

A Rogue level can net you 9+Int Diplomacy ranks.
A dagger to the spine can get you the rod.

What's your alignment? And why can't you gently ask the Rogue to give you the rod to examine it?

My alignment is Lawful/Neutral, but the party apparently just doesn't really trust Douglas. They keep him around as an amusing oddity and damage pump, but I get the most sincere impression that none of them would have a problem with killing him if he turned his bow on them. And I'm really looking for a less skill-based approach to retrieving the rod. The guys I play with will argue to their wits ends about skill rolls, and they'll take me on if I decide to coupe de grace the rogue in his sleep (though, to be honest, I don't think we're going to get a good sleep for the party until this campaign ends). Mostly, I'm looking for a magical/other effect that outright says "they give you the thing" so that I don't have to argue about it. If it were as simple as coupe de grace the party, I don't think the party would accept it. Lol.

[Demidos]

http://therafim.wikidot.com/entice-gift

It comes with a save, and if your rogue has the slippery mind ability, then it might be difficult. But that should work if you pump the DC. Alternately, you can just steal it with a flat DC of 20 sleight of hand. If your rogue beats your DC, they notice you taking it, but you'll already be holding the rod....

[Delvnegv]

It comes with a save, and if your rogue has the slippery mind ability, then it might be difficult. But that should work if you pump the DC. Alternately, you can just steal it with a flat DC of 20 sleight of hand. If your rogue beats your DC, they notice you taking it, but you'll already be holding the rod....

If you notice, that is a 2nd level spell, and I really only have 1 level to work with. Slippery mind is not an issue, and in all fact, the guy has a really low will save. The problem I have is that I don't have enough ranks in sleight of hand to make that a viable option, nor can I get them without dumping a level in rogue and dumping every single point into sleight of hand, and hoping against hope that he Ehlonna's Quiver he has slung over his shoulder will just come off without his (or anybody else's) noticing. Then there's the point at which they DO notice that it's gone, and Douglas is up **** creek without a paddle.

[Honest Tiefling]

Does your character really want to free ALL of the vestiges? Isn't one a devil? Yeah, I think Geryon's probably done something to deserve what he got. Or at least...Don't dump them into the prime material! Not existing sucks, but maybe they'd appreciate a free trip to Limbo or somewhere else nice and contained. After all, Leraje doesn't seem that bad of a lady, and probably doesn't want you dumping an devil and who knows what else into a plane full of elves.

Why not level with them? Indicate that you've undertaken this quest because you've felt that Corellon unjustly imprisoned Leraje. Leraje, instead of turning upon all elves protects them despite this great punishment, and even feels sympathy for the Drow, which many elven gods do not, despite their evil being mostly cultural. Yeah, how many gods are willing to be merciful to the race THEY most likely doomed to power of Lolth? Most people would have snapped under such a punishment, Leraje instead became remorseful and a champion of elves from beyond reality. Do you want to imprison someone like that? And what was her crime? To honorably answer to a duel that Corellon insisted upon. Because he didn't want a mortal to surpass him in archery. Despite the fact it was her that taught it to the elves, and saved his life. Without archery, the elves probably would have fallen to the orcs and many other enemies a long time ago.

Do you really want someone like that to suffer in such a horrible way? Does any being? And without the gods here, they'd probably help people, unlike those gods who abandoned us. And they'd want to help you for freeing them...

So how is your diplomacy looking? If it doesn't work on the rogue...Find an NPC who might have a loved one or the like in sore need of a patron to protect or heal them...

[Delvnegv]

Does your character really want to free ALL of the vestiges? Isn't one a devil? Yeah, I think Geryon's probably done something to deserve what he got. Or at least...Don't dump them into the prime material! Not existing sucks, but maybe they'd appreciate a free trip to Limbo or somewhere else nice and contained. After all, Leraje doesn't seem that bad of a lady, and probably doesn't want you dumping an devil and who knows what else into a plane full of elves.

Why not level with them? Indicate that you've undertaken this quest because you've felt that Corellon unjustly imprisoned Leraje. Leraje, instead of turning upon all elves protects them despite this great punishment, and even feels sympathy for the Drow, which many elven gods do not, despite their evil being mostly cultural. Yeah, how many gods are willing to be merciful to the race THEY most likely doomed to power of Lolth? Most people would have snapped under such a punishment, Leraje instead became remorseful and a champion of elves from beyond reality. Do you want to imprison someone like that? And what was her crime? To honorably answer to a duel that Corellon insisted upon. Because he didn't want a mortal to surpass him in archery. Despite the fact it was her that taught it to the elves, and saved his life. Without archery, the elves probably would have fallen to the orcs and many other enemies a long time ago.

Do you really want someone like that to suffer in such a horrible way? Does any being? And without the gods here, they'd probably help people, unlike those gods who abandoned us. And they'd want to help you for freeing them...

So how is your diplomacy looking? If it doesn't work on the rogue...Find an NPC who might have a loved one or the like in sore need of a patron to protect or heal them...

I like the idea that the gods would be interested, but in this setting at the least, Leraje seems bent on releasing the other vestiges as well. We are basically in the final dungeon of the game and there are only the party members around. I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I don't know how it will play out. The place that I'm in has no seeming exit, and I'm essentially stuck in the dark with these mildly homicidal maniacs running about killing whatever pops up next. I do think that I will have to roleplay a communication with Leraje to fully decide what should be done. Douglas is not exactly keen on the other vestiges, even though Leraje seems very keen on freeing all of them. I will give this more thought.

[AlanBruce]

The gods have been long gone from the world and the ability to create magic items has been lost to time, so magic items are few and far between. I overcame this challenge using the kensai and deepwood sniper classes.

This would mean that healing magic would come from other Divine means than deities?


Our party is comprised of a human Favored Soul (of St. Cuthbert)

As if favored souls weren't bad enough already...


My alignment is Lawful/Neutral, but the party apparently just doesn't really trust Douglas.

If memory serves right, Favored Souls must have the same alignment (or be close to) that of their deity. Why not find some common ground with that guy? What has Douglas done in 5 or 6 years that the party wants to murder him? He's the main damage dealer. You take him away, and the party loses their DPS guy.

Diplomacy cannot be used against another PC mechanically. That isn't to say that you can't make a very convincing argument with a d20 involved. Your reasons don't sound sinister- Vestiges are people too... or something along those lines.

Get the aasimar and Favored Soul to your side. One through matching morality and ethos (both being LN, there must/should be some common ground).

The Dread Necro can be convinced that, if Vestiges are allowed to regain Divinity, they will gain followers. Followers that can later be used by the Dread Necro to swell his undead armies.

With both Favored Soul and Dread Necro by your side, you can "convince" the shadow dancer to hand over the rod... for such a Lofty cause.

Barring that, use magic. Magic works.

[Delvnegv]

Barring that, use magic. Magic works.

This is by far my favorite answer to this question.

[Honest Tiefling]

I like the idea that the gods would be interested, but in this setting at the least, Leraje seems bent on releasing the other vestiges as well.

Ask yourself, does your PC want to unleash a devil, part of one of the most powerful demons in the multiverse, a fallen angel and a servant of star spawn into your world? No? Then your character delays on the whole 'release a bunch of bad stuff into where I keep my stuff' thing until Leraje comes to see reason. If need be, convince her that releasing all of that junk will probably put a severe dent into the world's elf/drow populations. Because it probably will.

[Kol Korran]

I'd like to point up another issue, if I may:
Will the other PLAYERS (Not characters), accept this betrayel? Some groups woudl think it a cool twist, and congratulate you on it, but many groups will see it as a PERSONAL betrayel, and may react badly, very badly to this. They may be real big real world conseqeunces to this. I've heard of such cases (And have seen one personally) where the other players, upon beign betrayed, simpyl raged, and would not continue to play with the betraying player. In a few cases it even broek up friendships.

Are you ready for that? How do you estimate your group will react? This is FAR more improtant than how to do it, despite wantign to be loyal to your character...