Lesser Permanency

[ZhanStrider]

How would you tweek the spell "Permanency" if you wanted to make a 2nd/3rd level version?

[BowStreetRunner]

Semipermanency: Sor/Wiz 3
Duration: 1 day per Caster Level of the spell being made permanent.
As the spell Permanency except the XP cost is 1/10th the amount listed.

[ericgrau]

^ Either that or cap it at 1,000 xp spells.

[Troacctid]

Permanency is essentially already like this because of the different tiers of caster level you can cast it at.The required caster level to make Detect Magic permanent is standard for a 5th level spell, whereas making Prismatic Sphere permanent requires a caster level more in line with a 9th level spell. Since Permanency is usually cast during downtime, the actual level of the spell slot doesn't matter much--it's more about what level you gain access to it.

[ZhanStrider]

Permanency is essentially already like this because of the different tiers of caster level you can cast it at.The required caster level to make Detect Magic permanent is standard for a 5th level spell, whereas making Prismatic Sphere permanent requires a caster level more in line with a 9th level spell. Since Permanency is usually cast during downtime, the actual level of the spell slot doesn't matter much--it's more about what level you gain access to it.

I wholeheartedly agree

[ericgrau]

Good point, so capping the xp isn't enough to bring it down to 3rd level.

The thing with 1 day per CL at 1/10th xp cost, is that you can cast it 10 times and it'll last 50 non-consecutive days for the same xp cost. If you take breaks during downtime, you could keep it going for an entire campaign. With less vulnerability to dispel since you're refreshing it anyway. And earlier access. Plus you still need to decide the minimal caster level for each effect which seems to be the main issue here.

A 24 hour duration might nerf it further, but that doesn't seem "permanent" enough to me. And setting the xp cost is likewise tricky. A zero or low xp cost is too little, because for example greater enlarge person is a 5th level spell. Maybe if you renamed the spell without using the word "permanency", then it could be fine fluff-wise.

First I think we need to drop the minimum caster levels by 4 to match up with a 3rd level spell. That means some effects might not be available until level 13, long after you can get a full blown permanency. But a full blown permanency has to wait until level 17 to give these effects so it still has a purpose. Next we have to nerf it somehow which is more tricky.

[Story]

Permanency is essentially already like this because of the different tiers of caster level you can cast it at.The required caster level to make Detect Magic permanent is standard for a 5th level spell, whereas making Prismatic Sphere permanent requires a caster level more in line with a 9th level spell. Since Permanency is usually cast during downtime, the actual level of the spell slot doesn't matter much--it's more about what level you gain access to it.

Or at least it would if CL weren't so trivial to boost.

At any rate, even increasing duration to 24 hours is attractive if the xp cost is low enough. Persistent Reduce Person? Persistent Invisibility?

The hardest part would be working out a list of spells that it's not broken for.

[Sacrieur]

I'd call it Extend Spell.

[Urpriest]

I'd figure out why I wanted a lower level version of the spell, and then write it accordingly. Without that information I wouldn't have the knowledge, or desire, to proceed.

[Seclora]

Eliminate the spell altogether. Just make people spend 8 hours(1 day) and the XP for a permanent version of whatever eligible spell you're casting. It's not as though it's that abused a spell, that fixed list really narrows the utility.


Although, since you asked for tweeks, I'd say double the XP cost to make it a spell half(or more, don't remember the exact spell level) as high level. That'd stop most 3rd-5th level casters from over using it, given that it'd cost them half their XP for permanent Detect Magic.

[ericgrau]

Or at least it would if CL weren't so trivial to boost.
If you optimize heavily, but this is a slippery slope because there are far far crazier things than permanency that you can do with a caster level cheaply pumped through the roof. In core +1 CL with no strings attached and no shenanigans is 30,000 gp.


Eliminate the spell altogether. Just make people spend 8 hours(1 day) and the XP for a permanent version of whatever eligible spell you're casting. It's not as though it's that abused a spell, that fixed list really narrows the utility.


Although, since you asked for tweeks, I'd say double the XP cost to make it a spell half(or more, don't remember the exact spell level) as high level. That'd stop most 3rd-5th level casters from over using it, given that it'd cost them half their XP for permanent Detect Magic.
This is not a terrible way to do it. Especially since you could always pay an NPC a mere 450 gp for a permanency. Maybe twice that for a high CL permanency. Plus gold for the xp. Compared to the xp cost getting a 5th level spell is pretty minor.

Hmm, so I think early access isn't a big deal either. How about this:

Lesser Permanency
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
As permanency except that a given creature, object or location may only ever have a single lesser permanent spell in effect at a time. Additionally the minimum caster level required to make each spell lesser permanent is reduced by 6. The effective caster level for each lesser permanent spell for the purpose of dispel magic and any other effect that might remove it is reduced by 8. The xp cost of a lesser permanent spell is halved compared to a regular permanency.

There, now it's still permanent and in full effect, but you can only have 1 on any target, and it's easier to remove. So it's permanent and yet less permanent. And thanks to the lower xp cost there's actually a point to casting it instead of hiring an NPC for a real permanency.