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SangoProduction
2015-11-14, 03:38 PM
I want to get in to a game, which has the following rules:

This is a DnD 3.5 game with starting ECL 6. The following rules are in effect:
32 point buy.
All races allowed to a maximun of La 1.Templates on case by case. Regardless of which race you pick you look human and is treated as having some especial lineage.
The available base classes are: Warblade, Swordsage, Crusader, Psion, Wilder, Psionic warrior, Ardent, Divine Mind, Dread Necromancer, Duskblade, Factotum, Warmage.
You are free to PRC
Only first party source allowed no dragon magazine.
2 Flaw max.
13,000 dollars to expend (gold coins)

I also greatly wanted to play Swiftblade (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327). What would be the best way to do so (at least as quickly as possible), given the rules above?

I was thinking Factorum, but its spell casting really sucks, and it would take 9 levels to get that third level spell without cheese. And Warmage doesn't even have access to Haste. Neither does Duskblade.

Odd that the psions are allowed but wizard isn't. But, I think those might be my best hope, with the magic-psionics transparency rules.

BowStreetRunner
2015-11-14, 05:27 PM
Trapsmith gains Haste as a 1st level spell. At first I missed that Factotum has Trapfinding as I was looking for an alternative to Factotum for you. However, since it is able to qualify for Trapsmith you can go Factotum 5/Trapsmith 1 to pick up Haste. This gets you into Swiftblade at 7th.

Troacctid
2015-11-14, 05:42 PM
None of those base classes can qualify for Swiftblade except for Factotum. The earliest possible entry would be Factotum 1/[whatever] 4/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade X. Your other option would be to go Factotum 9, or to use a prestige class such as Suel Arcanamach, Vigilante, or Fatemaker, but with your restrictions, Trapsmith is the only way to get into Swiftblade before level 10.

nedz
2015-11-14, 06:06 PM
Dread Necromancer, or Warmage, with Arcane Disciple can get you Haste
Time Domain (3rd)
Celerity Domain (4th)

Though whether you can qualify for Swiftblade this way is questionable since Arcane Disciple only gets you Haste 1/day per domain, and you have more 3rd level slots than that. Basically it depends upon how you read the Swiftblade pre-req text.

Troacctid
2015-11-14, 07:06 PM
Dread Necromancer, or Warmage, with Arcane Disciple can get you Haste
Time Domain (3rd)
Celerity Domain (4th)

Though whether you can qualify for Swiftblade this way is questionable since Arcane Disciple only gets you Haste 1/day per domain, and you have more 3rd level slots than that. Basically it depends upon how you read the Swiftblade pre-req text.

This won't work because you won't be able to use all your 3rd level slots to cast Haste.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-11-14, 07:15 PM
I am not sure factotum would work. The pre-reqs specify spell slots, which a factotum does not have.

SangoProduction
2015-11-14, 07:44 PM
I am not sure factotum would work. The pre-reqs specify spell slots, which a factotum does not have.

We already had this discussion in another forum. Let's not repeat it. For the purpose of this question, assume "If spell slots available to cast Haste == 0 (so long as you can haste at all), then you pass that pre-req."

xyianth
2015-11-14, 07:47 PM
If you play as a changeling, you can take 7 levels of either warmage or dread necromancer, then two levels of recaster. This can let you add haste as a 3rd level spell to your known spells by ECL 9. You can then qualify for swiftblade normally and enter it at ECL 10.

If you allow for early entry tricks, you can get in earlier. A changeling warmage(or dread necromancer) 5 with <metamagic feat> and sanctum spell technically qualifies for recaster. Such a character would be able to cast 4th level spells via sanctum spell upon reaching recaster 2, thus allowing you to pick up haste at ECL 7. You could then enter swiftblade at ECL 8.

Finally, a warmage with versatile spellcaster can use the eclectic learning ACF to learn haste as a 4th level spell at warmage 6. To qualify for swiftblade, you can then use versatile spellcaster to convert all your 3rd level slots into haste and enter swiftblade at ECL 7.

Edit -
We already had this discussion in another forum. Let's not repeat it. For the purpose of this question, assume "If spell slots available to cast Haste == 0 (so long as you can haste at all), then you pass that pre-req."

By that logic any class can meet that requirement via a scroll of haste and a UMD check. That seems problematic. (in other words, that is a terrible assumption)

mabriss lethe
2015-11-14, 08:00 PM
Swiftblade may be too difficult to enter via the class options available to you. I would suggest making a Zinc Saucier move, and try to achieve similar results without the class. I'm just ballparking it, but I think your best bet will using psion/psy war action economy shenanigans to build a swiftblade analog.

nedz
2015-11-15, 06:48 AM
This won't work because you won't be able to use all your 3rd level slots to cast Haste.

All the slots you have or all the slots you use ?
Even if you could use all of your 3rd level slots to cast haste, there will be days when you don't use all of your slots.
Would you fail to qualify if you were unconscious for a day ?

Troacctid
2015-11-15, 01:13 PM
All the slots you have or all the slots you use ?
Even if you could use all of your 3rd level slots to cast haste, there will be days when you don't use all of your slots.
Would you fail to qualify if you were unconscious for a day ?

Presumably if you were unconscious for a day, you would use the slots when you wake up, since they won't have been expended yet. Spell slots last until they are used or until you prepare new ones.

Even if you COULD qualify with 1/day Haste, it would severely hamstring you, because most of your class abilities only function while you're under the effect of Haste. You'd only benefit from them for one encounter per day. That's a significant drop in power and, IMO, not worth losing caster levels for.

nedz
2015-11-15, 02:19 PM
Presumably if you were unconscious for a day, you would use the slots when you wake up, since they won't have been expended yet. Spell slots last until they are used or until you prepare new ones.

Even if you COULD qualify with 1/day Haste, it would severely hamstring you, because most of your class abilities only function while you're under the effect of Haste. You'd only benefit from them for one encounter per day. That's a significant drop in power and, IMO, not worth losing caster levels for.

The interpretation is open to debate and, whilst you can wand Haste, you're right: it doesn't help since you have to cast it yourself for most effects.
You could get it twice a day, with two feats, mind.