Gestalt - Three Classes & Removed Prestige Limit?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically what do you think of Gestalt if done with three classes instead of 2?

What if it was done in this manner:

Gestalt 3 Classes if all Classes are Tier 4 or lower.
Gestalt 2 Classes if all Classes are Tier 3 or lower.
Only 1 Class if Class is Tier 1 or 2.

Ultimately, what if the "Only one Prestige progression at a time" was waved?
Because outside of Caster Prestige's I don't see how many are even any more broken than normal classes.

[ryu]

I'd say tier one/two is still the high end assuming you do ban prcs that grant casting to the gestalt players and the players are competent in the system. To put this in perspective all of the most powerful tier 3 classes are either mimicking a casting class directly, or are a casting class with a worse list/less caster levels to use than the higher tiers. Net effect? Gestalting tier 3 may be a point of relative power if the player doesn't know the system. Even moderate experimentation into more powerful playstyles will immediately show the power of the higher tiers.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I get that Tier 1 and 2's will still be in the lead.

Though I'm wondering if this Gestalt system would still be of use to other characters.
Could it be used to give them more to do at least? Create more interesting characters?

[Ellowryn]

I get that Tier 1 and 2's will still be in the lead.

Though I'm wondering if this Gestalt system would still be of use to other characters.
Could it be used to give them more to do at least? Create more interesting characters?

If you gestalt, or tristalt, the right classes together you do get a relative bump up the tier system as it gives many classes stuff they can't do by themselves. This will never lead to classes moving up to tier 2 but should at least get them close if not into tier 3 (able to do one thing quite well while still being able to contribute when that one thing isn't necessary, or able to do most things but not as good as someone dedicated to doing that one particular role). There is still the limit to what a single character can do in a single round but at least allow them to do more than just one thing every round (unless you allow factotum, and then the action economy cries in a corner).

As for creating more interesting character, thats all fluff and RP so it doesn't matter how many classes you slap together as it all relies on the player controlling them.

[upho]

If this is limited to PF options, I think you could safely allow for ge-/tristalting of PrCs. They're generally not as powerful as the 3.x ones. I also think this solution would probably work fine during mid levels, and increase the "sweet spot" of relative balance between classes. Though it would run a high risk of increasing early level front-loaded-ness of martials, to the point they'll steamroll any opposition without special abilities to avoid weapon damage. Something like a bloodrager/pally/fighter could easily be built into an utter "monster-mower" in early/mid, and I guess a magus/alchemist could very well be nearly as strong as tier 1's during mid.


As for creating more interesting character, thats all fluff and RP so it doesn't matter how many classes you slap together as it all relies on the player controlling them.I think he's referring to "a more mechanically interesting character". Which ge- or tristalting certainly can allow for. But unless perhaps if your players optimize pretty heavily, I wouldn't expect much in terms of new, previously impossible mechanical combos, especially from the tier 4-5 classes. It'll mostly be more of same old but a some higher numbers and quicker development.

[Gwazi Magnum]

If this is limited to PF options, I think you could safely allow for ge-/tristalting of PrCs. They're generally not as powerful as the 3.x ones. I also think this solution would probably work fine during mid levels, and increase the "sweet spot" of relative balance between classes. Though it would run a high risk of increasing early level front-loaded-ness of martials, to the point they'll steamroll any opposition without special abilities to avoid weapon damage. Something like a bloodrager/pally/fighter could easily be built into an utter "monster-mower" in early/mid, and I guess a magus/alchemist could very well be nearly as strong as tier 1's during mid.

This is indeed an issue.
Once could simply have them start at a higher level, I always disliked how some classes take a few levels to truly 'fit' any ways.

If not though, I'm wondering how else could be done.
Increased BAB and HD for Casters?
But lower Spells per day and Max Spell Level?

Though at this point they'd likely become a Tier 3.


I think he's referring to "a more mechanically interesting character". Which ge- or tristalting certainly can allow for. But unless perhaps if your players optimize pretty heavily, I wouldn't expect much in terms of new, previously impossible mechanical combos, especially from the tier 4-5 classes. It'll mostly be more of same old but a some higher numbers and quicker development.

A bit of both actually.
Refluffling is amazing, and it works for so many character concepts.

But there are also times where under fluff a character should be able to do X but mechanically can't do to the restrictions of their class.

[Gwazi Magnum]

An Alternate System just dawned on me.

What if it was a Point like system?

Classes were assigned a Point Value depending on Tier.

Example:

Tier 5 = 1
Tier 4 = 2
Tier 3 = 3
Tier 2 = 4
Tier 1 = 1

And Each level a character gains X level of Class Points to be divided among Class Levels as they wish?
Not sure if they'd be allowed to save left overs for the future or not, but I do know only one level of each class would be allowed per character level.