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Chijinda
2015-11-15, 07:38 AM
As I've mentioned in a few posts, I'm playing a Dark Heresy campaign which has been going on for a good two years. While the GM has told us he expects we probably won't be completing a third year, he does still seem to have a few ideas for us to run through before the end.

However, as of the last session I've noticed him becoming increasingly bitter about a number of things and quirks. Now to be fair, this isn't exactly a new thing. The guy has a tendency of getting bitter about stuff easily, and he's been getting bitter about various things in DH regularly. Seemed a bit different last session though.

The primary focal point of many of his complaints and frustrations seem to ultimately revolve back to my character though. I play a Psyker-- ie. The most broken career in Dark Heresy.

In my own defense, I did not pick the career because of this reason. I picked it because this was the first time we'd ever played Dark Heresy, and I thought it sounded like fun at the time. After learning about the Psyker's incredibly steep power curve, relative to the rest of the group, I have done what I can to "limit" my Psyker's abilities-- for example I've ignored some of the biggest gamebreaking powers in the game deliberately, and have generally avoided using my character's powers to the fullest potential save on in-character accidents. My Psyker's own character also means he tends to avoid using his powers except when he believes them to be absolutely necessary (which generally leads to him going several sessions at times without using his powers at all). Conveniently I think this tendency is also directly responsible for him not having killed himself with his own powers as of yet.

My GM still, however, seems to grumble under his breath anytime I manifest a power (at least provided my character does not cause his own head to explode in attempting to do so, and sometimes even then). Or at the very least, when my character does anything the rest of the party /can't/ do, by virtue of the fact that the Psyker is essentially the only career in the game with actual superpowers.

As a player I don't want to needlessly upset my GM, and I have tried to take measures to limit the scope of my Psyker's abilities. However at the same time, I /have/ put a decent amount of investment into my character's abilities, and would like to use them when an opportunity to use them arises.

For any GM's-- or even players, that have run into similar situations (maybe had the sole wizard in a party of Fighters and Rogues?) what are some things I can do to make my character less grating for my GM to deal with, without explicitly ignoring the powers he has at his disposal?

Surpriser
2015-11-15, 07:57 AM
I am not an expert on Dark Heresy, but something that usually works well in general is using your powers to help and assist party members.
From what I remember of Psykers, the general tone of most powers does not lend itself well to buffs, but hopefully you can get a few ideas.

This way, you won't overshadow the others so much (because now everyone's got "superpowers", even if they got them from you).

Also, talk to your DM about your concerns. I guess a big part of their frustration is that even if you are not using your powers to solve an adventure, you potentially COULD do it and so they have to plan their adventures around that. If you come to an explicit agreement on how to limit your powers (e.g. save your most powerful ones for when it is clear that the party would otherwise lose, not just to skip past any obstacle), they will have a much easier time to plan for that.

Chijinda
2015-11-15, 04:23 PM
I am not an expert on Dark Heresy, but something that usually works well in general is using your powers to help and assist party members.
From what I remember of Psykers, the general tone of most powers does not lend itself well to buffs, but hopefully you can get a few ideas.

This way, you won't overshadow the others so much (because now everyone's got "superpowers", even if they got them from you).

Also, talk to your DM about your concerns. I guess a big part of their frustration is that even if you are not using your powers to solve an adventure, you potentially COULD do it and so they have to plan their adventures around that. If you come to an explicit agreement on how to limit your powers (e.g. save your most powerful ones for when it is clear that the party would otherwise lose, not just to skip past any obstacle), they will have a much easier time to plan for that.

You remember right. Most of the abilities my Psyker has are not very useful for in-battle support, besides Inflict Pain, which is really more of a debuff. Unfortunately it's not seen much use lately as the GM's been throwing lots of high willpower enemies at us lately, and Inflict Pain can be nullified by a successful willpower test. He has a lot of out-of-battle utility powers though like Shape Flesh, Suggestion, Forget Me and Spectral Hands. Also, technically he has Chameleon, which although it HAS an in-battle application (everything suffers a -20 to hit the character with ranged attacks), I have never actually used this application, in an attempt not to frustrate my GM further.

I have spoken to my GM on this matter several times. He's told me repeatedly he doesn't blame me for it, his griefs are very much with the system that ALLOWS me to have a character this powerful, even though he knows I'm doing everything I can to limit my character without having a character where it would have been better off just to play another career. Even so I'm trying to make it so that... yeah. Anytime I use a particularly powerful ability like Regeneration, or roll especially well to generate Bio Lightning without the roll of a "9" (for those unfamiliar with the Dark Heresy system, anytime a "9" is rolled in the generation of a power, the Psyker essentially loses control of his powers and causes bad things to happen), he doesn't just slump back in his chair and go: "Yeah that's Psykers for you."

---

It's getting to the point however where I am also getting frustrated with his gripes however, because my character, at this point would actually likely be outclassed by the rest of the group WITHOUT his powers. Most of the things my character can do outside of his powers can be matched or exceeded by the other two party members. Without Chameleon his stealth skills are lamentable-- not a problem for our Scum. His Fellowship is alright but he suffers from being a Voidborn, which means he takes penalties anytime he makes a fellowship test with non-Voidborn-- and both the Guardsman and the Scum have better fellowship than he does anyways. His combat skills are decent, but the Scum is a far better shot, the Guardsman is a better shot AND duelist, and both have generally superior weaponry to him (my character is packing a best-quality longsword and a hand cannon, the Scum is packing a Bolter and the Guardsman has a plasma pistol and power sword). He's got good perception, but the Scum has stacked on so many bonuses onto his perception that it makes my Psyker's look irrelevant by comparsion.

Really the only thing my Psyker can do better than the rest of the party is intellect-based abilities (essentially Common Lore's and using machinery), and has a stronger willpower than the rest of them, rendering him more resistant to fear or demons. That and his powers, which, although potent... aren't exactly D&D 3.5 Wizard/Sorcerer tier, with his two most frequently used abilities essentially being to blend into his surroundings like a chameleon and the ability to essentially cast Cure Light Wounds on a target once every 6 hours (if cast on the same target more than once within 6 hours it causes damage to them instead). Also shooting lightning at targets, but that's a basic damage ability that has been seeing less and less use ever since our average firearm started outclassing it in damage and range and doesn't confer the risk of causing the user's head to explode from generating it.

Quertus
2015-11-15, 05:29 PM
Sounds like your GM needs to take a chill pill in the form of running a one shot with *real* powers, like D&D or Mutants and Masterminds, so that he can appreciate how easy he has it with your psycher. ;)

Anonymouswizard
2015-11-15, 06:05 PM
Wow, that sounds like the GM has a problem with psykers (which are overpowered in DH1 at least, but in my view a psyker who gets to 'powerful' and survives using their powers deserve it, especially because a bad perils of the warp can first halt the game for 10-20 minutes and then lead to a TPK as the GM is forced to drop a daemonhost on the party, at which point the psyker's player is normally the first out of the door). Do you know if he'd have a problem with a Tech-Priest taking the 'magic' talents?

Are the only other people in the party the Scum* and Guardsmen? If that is the case I suspect that the fact the other two are playing 'normal' people while you're a 'special snowflake' is the problem (for the record, this wouldn't be that uncommon in the Inquisition, I'd rule Dark Heresy is the only game where a psyker is more likely to be there than a tech-priest, fiction-wise). Or it could be the fact that you pretty literally break physics.

How recent is this? Has this been since the game started, or only once you got access to discipline powers? If it's the latter then the only thing you might be able to do is ask to rebuild you're character to focus on knowledge and not psyker powers, but in that case why not just play an adept? (I know minor powers are useful, but psy rating 3+ are just plain better than anything else the psyker gives you by a long shot, especially the number of powers 4+ can grant).

* How's he paying for the bolter shells, trade skill? Lots of loot?

Chijinda
2015-11-15, 06:27 PM
Wow, that sounds like the GM has a problem with psykers (which are overpowered in DH1 at least, but in my view a psyker who gets to 'powerful' and survives using their powers deserve it, especially because a bad perils of the warp can first halt the game for 10-20 minutes and then lead to a TPK as the GM is forced to drop a daemonhost on the party, at which point the psyker's player is normally the first out of the door). Do you know if he'd have a problem with a Tech-Priest taking the 'magic' talents?

Are the only other people in the party the Scum* and Guardsmen? If that is the case I suspect that the fact the other two are playing 'normal' people while you're a 'special snowflake' is the problem (for the record, this wouldn't be that uncommon in the Inquisition, I'd rule Dark Heresy is the only game where a psyker is more likely to be there than a tech-priest, fiction-wise). Or it could be the fact that you pretty literally break physics.

How recent is this? Has this been since the game started, or only once you got access to discipline powers? If it's the latter then the only thing you might be able to do is ask to rebuild you're character to focus on knowledge and not psyker powers, but in that case why not just play an adept? (I know minor powers are useful, but psy rating 3+ are just plain better than anything else the psyker gives you by a long shot, especially the number of powers 4+ can grant).

* How's he paying for the bolter shells, trade skill? Lots of loot?

We've discussed Tech Priests and he agrees they're also pretty overpowered, although he argues at least they have no fellowship to speak of, while Psykers at least CAN go for fellowship based stuff, and can compensate for their poor Fellowship with Psychic Powers. I might attribute that to the fact he doesn't actually have to DEAL with a Tech Priest, while he does have to deal with a Psyker.

Only other characters in the party are a Scum and a Guardsman. Scum used to play an assassin but a couple of bad climb tests, and trying to go solo against a hive gang during some downtime resulted in her untimely demise. GM also gave us a second NPC guardsman for awhile but she disappeared awhile ago and we still haven't learned why, in-character and out-of-character (and the only party member who knows has shut down all attempts to learn why).

His general complaints started cropping up about the second session of the campaign when my Psyker managed to deal with the fact that a Planetary Governor had named us wanted criminals at least temporarily, by using Forget Me on an Arbitrator that tried to apprehend us in order to get away without a fight. They started getting more frequent after my Psyker picked up Regeneration and Push (I had informed my GM from the very second session that I had intended to get Regeneration at some point in the future, as during that second session my Psyker got an ear lopped off, and he was pretty much okay with that idea until I actually GOT Regeneration and he bothered to read up on what I'd actually learned how to do).

The Scum only got his Bolter super recently (as in he got it last session), as a favor from a Rogue Trader. It came with two full clips alongside it, so he hasn't actually had to buy ammunition for it as he only uses it when he has to (he generally prefers to use dual wielded Carnodons or an Autogun with Manstopper rounds).

Honest Tiefling
2015-11-15, 06:34 PM
Perhaps the blunt approach? Ask him what he thinks a Psyker character should and should not be able to do, not in terms of the series fluff, but in terms of being a PC in Dark Heresy. Emphasize that you want to know what he will find appropriate in terms of combat and story, and what he will enjoy. (As opposed to yanno, the parent game or the novels).

Chijinda
2015-11-15, 08:10 PM
Perhaps the blunt approach? Ask him what he thinks a Psyker character should and should not be able to do, not in terms of the series fluff, but in terms of being a PC in Dark Heresy. Emphasize that you want to know what he will find appropriate in terms of combat and story, and what he will enjoy. (As opposed to yanno, the parent game or the novels).

I have discussed this with him before. Not necessarily with regards to my character but Psykers in general. What he feels could have been done to balance them while still making them "Psykers".

As far as I can see his idea of Psykers are more or less drawn from the Tabletop Game. Basically:

-Less utility overall. They most certainly should NOT be able to heal themselves or others, or do half the minor powers. In fact pretty much half of Biomancy doesn't sit well with him with regards to Imperium Psykers.

-Less powers. Even Space Marine librarians are only capable of using about two powers in the TT. While Psykers in a TTRPG should not be QUITE so constrained, having 16 different powers like my character has is far too many.

-Psy Ratings are the most broken advances in the game. He does not like that in addition to gaining power, a Psyker gains half his WPB in Minor and standard powers every time they advance a Psy Rating.

-He does not like that demons are weak against Psykers, with nothing flowing the other way, besides that narratively demons will likely focus the Psyker first because the Psyker is the greatest threat to them. To paraphrase him: "Yeah, this is the career that's better than any of the others. Unless I decide to throw the nastiest guys in the book at you guys. Then not only is it the best career in the game it's the only career that can do anything at all."

-He feels Psychic Powers should be far more lethal to the caster. As a side note, he hates that they can essentially be spammed, because the risk of Perils of the Warp is so low. I regularly see him get super excited anytime I roll a 9, and then his face basically falls when he looks up what the roll does and goes: "Oh. A big gust of wind whips around. You guys see some small rocks tumble around the Psyker. Whoop-de-doo." I'm fairly certain if he had his way he'd have done away with the Psychic Phenomena table entirely and left us just with Perils of the Warp on 9's.

-Invocation is absurdly broken. Moreso because the Psyker literally starts the game with an item that can bolster his ability to use Invocation. Maybe it's just me, but I get the feeling he deliberately destroyed my character's Psy-Focus last session because he was tired of me using Invocation, and used the fact it was an aquila necklace that enraged the demon my Psyker was fighting as justification for why the demon would target it instead of my Psyker.

-Hates that at certain levels of power, a Psyker can essentially auto-cast abilities. I remember the first time I cast a power that it was literally impossible to fail. The convo went a bit like this:

Me: "Alright, I manifest Precognition, and succeed."
GM: "You rolled a 1."
Me: "Precognition's got a Threshold of 6, and my character has a WPB of 5. It's literally impossible to fail the threshold, the only reason I'm rolling is to see if I roll a 9 or not."
GM: "Of course it is. Psykers are so -expletive- stupid."

-They should not have more options than literally any other career. He once took the time to check out the number of possible advances by-branch careers had and was totally unsurprised when he found Psykers had almost 50% more possible advances regardless of whether they went Scholar or Savant as the second highest career. He also thinks it's a cruel joke that Psykers can actually get more Imperial Guard-related skills than Imperial Guardsmen (Peer: Imperial Guard and Command+10 most notably).

-He does not like the idea that not all careers are equal. As far as he's concerned every career should be just as viable at max rank, as any other, and Psykers should not be exempt from this (or at least the Psyker should not be able to do the jobs of other careers better than the careers that are supposed to specialize at them).

---------

At least this is what I've gathered from all of his complaints against the career.

Kami2awa
2015-11-16, 04:31 AM
Sounds like he badly needs to try a different system, or heavily rewrite the rules for psykers at the very least.