Plate Rogue Concept; How?

[Xuldarinar]

In essence, the idea goes as follows;

A man passes himself off as a paladin(-esque individual). He wears heavy armor, charges into combat with a two-handed weapon (or a one-handed weapon and a shield), makes play that he is smiting evil in combat (likely their declaring a smite is a guise for feint attacks). Perhaps even has some minor healing abilities (or fakes it).


How would one make this concept the most functional, and how could they handle themselves to make the most convincing paladin?

[Vhaidara]

Well, the title says rogue, but you post just says man. Going by your post, make a warpriest or a cleric and be a better paladin than an actual paladin.

If you're actually playing a rogue, the obvious start would be to dip something like fighter to avoid spending 4 feats on armor, weapon, and shield proficiency, but Str rogue is surprisingly functional as long as you can spare that 1 level dip. Just focus on getting flanks for your sneak attack, maybe grab the Counterfeit Mage archetype on an Unchained Rogue and then use wands to pretend you have spellcasting, that kind of stuff.

[FocusWolf413]

I'm not familiar with Pf domains, but in 3.5, the magic domain power pretty much made you one of the best UMDers in the game. I'd say use a str rogue in full plate with a cleric dip.

[Xuldarinar]

Well, the title says rogue, but you post just says man. Going by your post, make a warpriest or a cleric and be a better paladin than an actual paladin.

If you're actually playing a rogue, the obvious start would be to dip something like fighter to avoid spending 4 feats on armor, weapon, and shield proficiency, but Str rogue is surprisingly functional as long as you can spare that 1 level dip. Just focus on getting flanks for your sneak attack, maybe grab the Counterfeit Mage archetype on an Unchained Rogue and then use wands to pretend you have spellcasting, that kind of stuff.

How about an Unchained Rogue with their secondary class being Oracle and taking on the Battle Mystery? That covers the proficiencies at least.



I'm not familiar with Pf domains, but in 3.5, the magic domain power pretty much made you one of the best UMDers in the game. I'd say use a str rogue in full plate with a cleric dip.

The magic domain is somewhat different in pathfinder.

[Psyren]

Is this guy planning to be LG? If not, alignment is a means of detecting that something is amiss and needs to be addressed.

[Florian]

Is this guy planning to be LG? If not, alignment is a means of detecting that something is amiss and needs to be addressed.

Adding to that: It's hard to get the same level of Aura of Good readings w/o being an actual paladin.

[Xuldarinar]

Is this guy planning to be LG? If not, alignment is a means of detecting that something is amiss and needs to be addressed.


Adding to that: It's hard to get the same level of Aura of Good readings w/o being an actual paladin.


You both make a fair point. Im certain there are ways to address gaining an appropriate Aura of Good without necessarily being good/having the Aura of Good class feature.

I will say, however, it isn't as big of a give away as one would think. When it comes to fooling other paladins, clerics, and the like; who's going to have detect good on them, let alone use it on a person claiming to be a paladin? They'd want to avoid detecting as evil, but detecting as good shouldn't be a problem there.

Alternatively, lets say this individual goes up against evil creatures. If they don't detect as good, someone might notice something is odd but it is a means of avoiding detection. Only evil people will question it if they use detect good and notice. If they detect as good but not as strong for their level, at best someone is going to think it odd their aura is deceptively weak. Presenting one's self as a paladin, but not being one, one could go undetected by those seeking them with detect good or potentially cause them to be underestimated by an opponent. If a paladin who'd be a threat typically has an overwhelming aura of good, and this 'paladin' who has entered detects as having a moderate aura of good, one might approach the situation as if this individual is a relatively weak paladin and not decide this individual can't be a paladin in the traditional sense. Its not like anyone in the setting will know the character's Hit die is, or what a hit die is in the first place.

[Florian]

@Xuldarinar:

It would actually help if you'd post a little bit more information, be a bit more concrete about it, talk about where you want to go.

[Psyren]

That's fine if you're going for neutral, but should you slip to evil then you end up much more at risk. And keep in mind that Inquisitors - whose very job description includes rooting out charlatans within the faith - get all four alignment detection spells at will and are expected to use them all.

And of course, Paladins are all lawful as well, which is another vector of detection if your proposed pseudo-paladin is not careful.


@Xuldarinar:

It would actually help if you'd post a little bit more information, be a bit more concrete about it, talk about where you want to go.

Seconding this. What are the goals for this character beyond tricking people, and what will it actually be, if not a paladin?

[Xuldarinar]

You make a fair point. Inquisitors, I had forgotten about them. There is then that question of how to handle the aura. I know one, however, in the form of a feat; Mask of Virtue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/damnation-feats/mask-of-virtue-damnation).



Yes a clearer frame would certainly help discussion.


Lets consider the main protagonist of the film "A Knight's Tale". He wasn't a knight, but due to a desire to be one and initially a need to pass himself off as one, he did what he could to present himself as such. He wouldn't have necessarily been a cavalier of any order, truly, but he did acquire what he needed to in order to pass himself off as one. Thats the closest example I can think of off the top of my head.


In the case of the discussion, its a character of the rogue class (Unchained or standard, as they are almost interchangeable), who has decided for what ever reason to pass themselves off as a paladin. There is a certain prestige to it, and there are advantages (in some places) to being perceived to be a paladin regardless as to actual ability, and in some ways more so for not actually being one as one may assume wrong about their capabilities and prepare for the direct assaults of a truly honorable individual. They desire the perception that they are a champion of good (and law), though they may not actually be good, lawful, appropriately trained, one who likes being held to such a code of conduct, or any combination thereof.

[Telonius]

You might find Round 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252932-Zinc-Saucier-7-We-re-not-Jedi-we-just-wish-we-were) of the Zinc Saucier competition helpful.

[Florian]

Well, ok, now that makes sense but doesn't make the task easier ;)

Some preliminary questions before delving deeper onto it: Would that character be pious enough to follow a deity? Does he come from a culture where accepting the deed done is counted akin to the accomplishment of the deed itself?

[Xuldarinar]

You might find Round 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252932-Zinc-Saucier-7-We-re-not-Jedi-we-just-wish-we-were) of the Zinc Saucier competition helpful.

Perhaps. I will have to have a look.


Well, ok, now that makes sense but doesn't make the task easier ;)

Some preliminary questions before delving deeper onto it: Would that character be pious enough to follow a deity? Does he come from a culture where accepting the deed done is counted akin to the accomplishment of the deed itself?

The former, I would assume not, but the latter.. Thats an interesting question. What difference would it make for the purpose of this discussion?

[Florian]

The former, I would assume not, but the latter.. Thats an interesting question. What difference would it make for the purpose of this discussion?

Just following up some idle thoughts. Switching to an in-game POV, what makes a Paladin? I say it's not the armor or the twohander, it's the smiting and laying on hands.
Now the smiting, you can fake that, as it doesn't have visual cues and only the result counts.
That leaves the Laying on Hands part and that can be simple as well as hard, as you need to pass a Sleight of Hands check to disguise your use of a wand and UMD.

At that point, I'd try Fighter1/UnRogue19 and VMC Cavalier.