Help a DM (me) understand: Disarm versus Steal

[Amphetryon]

What it says on the tin. Under what conditions, exactly, is an attempt to remove an object from the possession of another Character considered a Disarm attempt, and under what conditions, exactly, is that same attempt considered a Steal attempt? Is there a particular reason to favor one over the other, or to rule that a PC's Steal attempt is, in fact, a Disarm attempt or vice versa? I have a Player who is specializing in Disarm as a Monk, and we both know it's not the most powerful option he could take. I'm trying to make sure I neither reduce his utility with this maneuver, nor give him too much latitude by conflating the one with the other.

[TheIronGolem]

If it's in your hands, Disarm. If it's on your person but not in your hands or a container, Steal.

[Glimbur]

It looks like Disarm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Disarm) is used to take things out of people's hands, and Steal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Steal) is for anything not in their hands. I expected the rule to be more complicated than that. I also like the nerf to Sleight of Hand; you used to be able to steal everything that wasn't nailed down or held as a free action with enough bonus to sleight of hand.

[Genth]

Also, I don't think Disarm (At least without Unarmed Strikes) do not let you take the item you have disarmed - it falls to the ground.

"If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands)."

"If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped."

Disarm is a part of an attack action (i.e. can replace *one* of your flurry of blows) while Steal is a standard action.

[Amphetryon]

Also, I don't think Disarm (At least without Unarmed Strikes) do not let you take the item you have disarmed - it falls to the ground.

"If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands)."

"If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped."

Disarm is a part of an attack action (i.e. can replace *one* of your flurry of blows) while Steal is a standard action.

The "you may automatically pick up the item dropped" clause would appear, from here, to make Disarm functionally identical to simply grabbing the item, rather than having it drop, since picking up the dropped item is considered 'automatic' for the Character in question (an unarmed Monk). There is no indication that picking it up takes any time at all, or provokes any sort of AoO from the Disarmed foe. Adding to my confusion is this line:


If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands.

So, apparently, it's equally as easy to Disarm a person of a Halberd, a Longbow, a Dagger, and a Breastplate. That seems. . . odd. . . to me, particularly since it runs contrary to the second quoted sentence, about needing to beat a CMD by 10+ to remove items from 'both' hands.

[Kurald Galain]

The "you may automatically pick up the item dropped" clause would appear, from here, to make Disarm functionally identical to simply grabbing the item, rather than having it drop, since picking up the dropped item is considered 'automatic' for the Character in question (an unarmed Monk). There is no indication that picking it up takes any time at all, or provokes any sort of AoO from the Disarmed foe.

You can disarm using your weapon (adding its enhancement bonus), which basically means you whack at his sword with your own blade, but this causes the enemy's weapon to fall to the ground. There's a few feats that let you grab the weapon, or even fling it at another enemy.

Or, you can disarm without your weapon (unarmed), which basically means you physically wrest it from his hands. Also, you are now armed.

[Genth]

So, apparently, it's equally as easy to Disarm a person of a Halberd, a Longbow, a Dagger, and a Breastplate. That seems. . . odd. . . to me, particularly since it runs contrary to the second quoted sentence, about needing to beat a CMD by 10+ to remove items from 'both' hands.

I think the CMD+10 clause is about something wielding two items at the same time, i.e being able to completely disarm a two weapon fighter in one attack

As for grabbing the weapon, yes, for this character it's basically automatic, save that they'd be now holding the weapon, which might interfere with the rest of the flurry of blows attacks.

[Amphetryon]

I think the CMD+10 clause is about something wielding two items at the same time, i.e being able to completely disarm a two weapon fighter in one attack

As for grabbing the weapon, yes, for this character it's basically automatic, save that they'd be now holding the weapon, which might interfere with the rest of the flurry of blows attacks.

Why would dropping the weapon (a Free Action) interfere?