PDA

View Full Version : homebred class gun magus 3.5



tsj
2015-11-16, 01:04 AM
Gun magus:

Hitdice 1d12

Pure base attack

Gains rage as barbarian

Can cast spells as a sorcerer (spells per day and spells known)

Can cast spells while in rage

Can deliver touch spells with ranged or melee attacks such as bows or swords

Gains skills, trap disarming and sneak attack as a rogue

Would this be considered a tier 1 class ?

Or does it remain a tier 2 because of the sorcerer ability?

Might need a new name for the class since gunman is just one of the roles this class can fulfill.... the list would be something like this. ..

Rogue
Spell thief?
Gunmage
rage mage
Barbarian / tank
Spellsword thingy
Sorcerer
Arcane archer

Sorcerer and rogue mixes well... Barbarian and sorcerer is an interesting mix and the ability to deliver touch spells with regular attacks is also interesting I think....


But does this home brew have sufficient versatility to raise a sorcerer from tier 2 to tier 1 despite him being limited by spells known?

Sacrieur
2015-11-16, 01:06 AM
Still only tier 2.

A nonsensically overpowered tier 2.

tsj
2015-11-16, 01:18 AM
Still only tier 2.

A nonsensically overpowered tier 2.

What changes would be needed to reach tier 1 and to reach a sensible power level while retaining the following. ..

Able to play it as a rage mage, gunmage and magic welding rogue?

More spells per day? Access to any arcane spell list?
Weaker hit dice and bab? Fewer sneak attack bonuses? Less skill points?
Ignoring spell failure?

bekeleven
2015-11-16, 03:42 AM
As its spell access increases, its tier increases. The very simplest way is to let it cast from all spells on its spell list, which is what people refer to when they say "Tier 0" (there's no tier above 1, but "tier 0" refers to stupidly overpowered classes even by tier 1 standards).

If you want it to be tier 1, just include knowstones (dragon magazine) in your campaign setting and run metropolises as pure marketplaces (they have basically everything in stock at market price). Then the gun mage generates infinite cash using spells, buys knowstones of every spell...

That or allow Ancestral Relic Custom Runestaff Combo. Which lets a good-aligned sorcerer cast any spell spontaneously (although there's a bunch of steps to get there).

tsj
2015-11-16, 04:17 AM
Hmm.. none of those options were quite what I had in mind.

I guess I could run my game in a way where all 4 party members are gestalt charecters where one of the classes must be a tier 1 while the other class must be any class that is not tier 1.

That would prevent any one party member to outshine other members at least if we assume they all have the same level of system mastery.

While at the same time ban tier 0 such as truenamer.

Sacrieur
2015-11-16, 12:27 PM
Hmm.. none of those options were quite what I had in mind.

I guess I could run my game in a way where all 4 party members are gestalt charecters where one of the classes must be a tier 1 while the other class must be any class that is not tier 1.

That would prevent any one party member to outshine other members at least if we assume they all have the same level of system mastery.

While at the same time ban tier 0 such as truenamer.

Or just let them play what they want to play. Most people who play T1 classes don't play them at a T1 level, and if they do, go out of their way not to outshine everyone. There are several ways to buff lower tier classes into a higher tiers. Doing gestalt for mundanes is only one of them. There's also the initiator balance rule (in my signature). But it really depends on what your players want.

The truenamer is tier 6, by the way.

tsj
2015-11-17, 12:49 AM
Or just let them play what they want to play. Most people who play T1 classes don't play them at a T1 level, and if they do, go out of their way not to outshine everyone. There are several ways to buff lower tier classes into a higher tiers. Doing gestalt for mundanes is only one of them. There's also the initiator balance rule (in my signature). But it really depends on what your players want.

The truenamer is tier 6, by the way.

My problem is that my group prefers very different classes... cleric, warmage, fighter and rogue.

Those are all over the place tier wise.

I was under the impression that the truenamer was broken such that it was more powerfull than the wizard hence tier 0...
But it is actually a class with very little power?

Regarding warlock invocations, would it be good, bad or just not worthwhile to allow invocations to be taken as feats?

I would think that a wizard could have some fun with some of the warlocks invocations

AzraelX
2015-11-17, 06:34 AM
I was under the impression that the truenamer was broken such that it was more powerfull than the wizard hence tier 0...
But it is actually a class with very little power?
It's considered to be one of the worst classes out there. The design was not well thought out.

I'd personally call it Tier 7, because it shouldn't be compared to classes that become better at higher levels. That's the bare minimum any class should be able to get right, and Truenamer doesn't.

Sacrieur
2015-11-17, 11:48 AM
My problem is that my group prefers very different classes... cleric, warmage, fighter and rogue.

Those are all over the place tier wise.

People play like this all the time without much of a problem.



I was under the impression that the truenamer was broken such that it was more powerfull than the wizard hence tier 0...
But it is actually a class with very little power?

It's actually worse than the Expert NPC class. The problem with the truenamer is that you can't use it because you can't ever speak the true name of anything unless your Intelligence is in the 30's.



Regarding warlock invocations, would it be good, bad or just not worthwhile to allow invocations to be taken as feats?

I would think that a wizard could have some fun with some of the warlocks invocations

I think the wizard already gets enough cool stuff, they don't need more.