PF: real life Sorcerer

[Rift_Wolf]

This is more a thought experiment than a gaming question. Let's say you're a 6th level Sorcerer, but living in the present day. What spells would be most useful to you on day to day life? Note that 'day to day life' isn't combat orientated; sure Colour Spray and Magic Missile might* be the best 1st level spells for combat but unless you get into fights a lot, there are better choices. Suggested inventive uses are welcome, but keep it PG13. I'm saying keep it to Pathfinder core for simplicity; I have that book to hand for reference, not any splatbooks.
For reference, a 6th level sorcerers spells known are;
0 - 7
1st - 4
2nd - 2
3rd - 1

All suggestions are welcome!
(* I used the qualifier 'might'. I don't want the thread derailed into 'best 1st level spells'. Because we all know Summon Monster I would win.)

[Yahzi]

What spells would be most useful to you on day to day life?
1. Cure Minor Wounds - because bleeding out is still the major cause of death from surgery, trauma, or childbirth.
2. Remove Disease - because cancer & infection are the next biggest killers that we can't fix ourselves (infection usually kills people who are receiving cancer treatment).
3. Zone of Truth - because it would change the political world.

All other spells are a complete and utter waste of time. As a 6th level Sorcerer the first thing you do is retrain as a 5th level Cleric.

Magic Missile sucks compared to an assault rifle, Invisibility probably doesn't work against infrared sensors, Summon Monster is utterly pointless since you can just hire a guy with an assault rifle with all your huge earnings from curing people, Charm Person is barely distinguishable from "take a Dale Carnegie class and then liberally dispense your huge earnings from curing people," and the only real use for Teleport is robbing bank vaults... which you won't need to do once you can cast Remove Incurable Cancer once per day.

[Zanos]

Lets see...

0th:
Prestidigitation: Catch All
Mage Hand: Low Grade Telekinesis
Mending: Buy it once, good for life
Message: Whisper creepily to people, good for candid conversations
Ghost Sound: Distractions at will
Open/Close: People who come into my room and don't leave the door in the state they found it in are monsters
Detect Poison: You never know
1st:
Charm Person: Schmooze your way to the top the easy way
Comprehend Languages: Rosetta Stone is hard
Memorize Page: Learning is hard
Unseen Servant: Chores are hard
2nd:
Share Memory: Read minds for fun and profit
Locate Object: Car keys
3rd:
Animate Dead, Lesser: Grisly, but creates perpetual motion machines.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, there's a ton of spells that could make you a millionaire. Unfortunately the world-changing spells are higher level or on the divine list, but depending on your goals, you can still do some stuff. For personal enjoyment, Alter Self is hard to beat (even if you can't fly with it anymore). The ability to essentially become aquatic, acquire a hound-level scent, be able to see in perfect darkness or becoming smaller (and more nimble) or stronger all in one spell is really convenient. You'd also be able to pull off some amazing shows with it.

Detect Thoughts/Share Memory, Tongues (tho Comprehend Languages is a nice start and less level-costly), Charm Person, Shrink Item (tho without Permanency, the utility of Shrink Item decreases heavily as you can't manufacture permanently shrunk nanobots for instance), Fly (can be cast on others), etc. are all great. Lesser Animate Dead would be very interesting though, as you'd essentially break entropy by creating perpetual motion machines that require no maintenance or energy. The amount of work 12 zombies/skeletons can do is rather small though so I'm not sure how useful it'd be in the grand scheme of things unless you can find a way to make uncontrolled undead useful.


In general, some Transmutations but mostly Divinations and Enchantments would have the largest number of applications since the rest of the world doesn't have magic. Overall, I like Zanos's list tho I'd probably be partial for Alter Self instead of Locate Object & Infernal Healing instead of Unseen Servant (you can probably get skellies to do what you'd want Unseen Servants for). Rope Trick would also be nice just to enable extradimensional spaces but alas, I guess there's no room.

[Vhaidara]

I like the lists presented, but also have to add that inferbla healing is garbage without either a devil or a source of unholy water (which requires divine magic to make, iirc).

Also, what bloodline is everyone thinking?

[Talieth]

With a trait you can gain access to the Create water orison. And that is great.

Breeze : Who need air conditioning ?

Silent image is versatile (need to explain something ? an image (silent) is worth a thousand words ...) and fun.

Infernal Healing : Put those lvl1 commoner back to full health. Now you are THE doctor (but not The Doctor)

Continual Flame : LED lamp and other low energy lighting are for normal people. If this work with photovoltaic cells, you are very rich.

Mount : A horse may not be the ideal way of transportation in our modern world. But a horse is a lot of meat that last 12 hours ... enough to kill the horse, do some cooking, eat and digest.

Fly : Because flying by yourself is awesome

Explosive Runes : Because making people fly by yourself is awesome

Major Image : Better than CGI. (but Silent Image might be enough ...)



I like the lists presented, but also have to add that inferbla healing is garbage without either a devil or a source of unholy water (which requires divine magic to make, iirc).
I would say that the eschew material feat allow to circumvent those pesky requirement

[Kurald Galain]

Actually, I'd go for some long-lasting buff spells that will make life more practical and convenient, without resorting to such obvious attention-getting moves like healing (which isn't on the sorc list anyway).


Ant Haul if you're not so strong and need to carry books or furniture around.
Comprehend Languages lasts for an hour and is useful in any multicultural society. Cultural Adaptation is even better.
Disguise Self and/or Youthful Appearance.
Endure Elements is great to live in any kind of climate.
Heightened Awareness. Suddenly you're more knowledgeable about everything.
Mage Armor gives you a decent defense against anything from muggers to numerous accidents. Lasts all day for just two castings.
Monkey Fish, because climbing and swimming is still useful in this day and age.
Technomancy. Suddenly, you're a capable engineer!
And for level 2 spells, Eagle's Splendor, for obvious reasons.

[daryen]

For reference, a 6th level sorcerers spells known are;
0 - 7
1st - 4
2nd - 2
3rd - 1

Do remember that, IRL, you are unavoidably human. This is Pathfinder. As such, you can have six additional known spells. Maximizing them means 3 0-level spells, 2 1st-level spells, and 1 2nd-level spells, so your known spell list is actually:
0 - 10
1st - 6
2nd - 3
3rd - 1

[Âmesang]

If Lords of Magick is anything to go by, it might help to have developed a spell akin to greater application completion.

[Acanous]

0th: Haunted Fey Aspect, Prestidigitation, Mend, Penumbra, Spark, ghost sound, Mage hand, Message, Root, Arcane Mark
1st: Infernal healing, Unseen Servant, Charm Person, Silent Image, blood money, Enlarge Person
2nd: Alter Self, invisibility, Fox's Cunning
3rd: Fly

[raygun goth]

Hypnotism. It's a 1st level spell and you can conquer the world with it.



Your gestures and droning incantation fascinate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#fascinated) nearby creatures, causing them to stop and stare blankly at you. In addition, you can use their rapt attention to make your suggestions and requests seem more plausible. Roll 2d4 to see how many total Hit Dice of creatures you affect. Creatures with fewer HD are affected before creatures with more HD. Only creatures that can see or hear you are affected, but they do not need to understand you to be fascinated.


If you use this spell in combat, each target gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#savingThrows). If the spell affects only a single creature not in combat at the time, the saving throw has a penalty of -2.


While the subject is fascinated by this spell, it reacts as though it were two steps more friendly in attitude. This allows you to make a single request of the affected creature (provided you can communicate with it). The request must be brief and reasonable. Even after the spell ends, the creature retains its new attitude toward you, but only with respect to that particular request.

A creature that fails its saving throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#savingThrows) does not remember that you enspelled it.

Your first request is "trust me." Then it's all downhill from there. Given a few days you can step up the intensity of the "request" from "trust me" to "I'm a nice person" to "I'm a good person" to "I'm a great person" to "I am such a great person I remind you of a god" to "I am a god" to "I am your god."

[Tvtyrant]

Resist Energy: Now humanity is immune to lava, sun burns, natural cold, etc. for a reasonably priced amulet.

Comprehend Languages: Lets everyone understand each other.

[avr]

First, the bloodline. Since I'd like to not have people gunning for me that'd be celestial if I have a choice. The bloodline power of healing people is a nice bonus.

3rd: Off the core book I'd get shrink item. Handy, impressive, and it's something you can use with modern technology easily.

2nd: Eagle's splendor, detect thoughts; dealing with people without violence is your number one priority in modern society. Buffing is less likely to be taken as offensive, too.

1st: Endure elements, unseen servant, disguise self, color spray; one offensive spell (just in case), one to make weather irrelevant, one to help you hide if you get into trouble or to make costumes for fun, one just because it's handy especially with shrink item.

Cantrips: Detect magic, prestidigitation, mending, detect poison, read magic, message, light, arcane mark. If you ever run into magic you want to understand it, the others are just the most generally useful.

There are many other tricks I'd like beyond the core book, but this is what I'd pick from that subset.

[Rift_Wolf]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Hypnotism looks like a pretty insidious choice. Animate Dead, though? How many corpses do you have daily access to? I like Unseen Servant better; no material component (I'm guessing black onyx is pretty cheap in real world, though) and fewer ethics.
My first choices would have been Prestidigitation and Silent Image, seeing as Hey Presto specifies cleaning powers and 1lb telekinesis, meaning tidying up would be way easier, as well as retrieving pen lids and dice when they roll under the table. Silent Image covers most Illusory needs, making Color Spray and bit overkill. Again, how often do you find yourself in a situation where you think 'if only I had a flash grenade'? If I got attacked or mugged, chances are Silent Image making it appear like other people are nearby would be enough to scare my attacker off. It also renders PowerPoint defunct, I get my own personal modesty booth at the gym and I can exercise the cat without using a laser pointer.
I specified Sorcerer and no splatbooks for a reason; I have core rulebook in front of me, and I'm lazy. Also if retraining as a 5th level cleric was a possibility in the real world, I could make my fortune proving that God exists and taunting Richard Dawkins.

[Eldariel]

I specified Sorcerer and no splatbooks for a reason; I have core rulebook in front of me, and I'm lazy. Also if retraining as a 5th level cleric was a possibility in the real world, I could make my fortune proving that God exists and taunting Richard Dawkins.

Funny as it works, but Clerics don't actually need deities for their powers. A deity can be in a world without proven existence of divinities (e.g. Eberron) and still receive their powers, or be the Cleric of an ideal and get powers anyways. Clerics of specific deities are the only ones dependent on said deities for spells. So it'd be hard to prove anything beyond "Magic, peeps!"

But yeah, Animate Dead has the advantage of being permanent. Unseen Servants and the like expire so you have a very limited number and will have to keep recasting it, and you won't have access to Permanency but Undead hang around forever and require no sleep or maintenance. Undead are also rather versatile (tho keeping a Skeleton or a Zombie does probably require some work to stop it from stinking and in general being an eyesore). Getting access to corpses would suck but it's not entirely impossible; and when you want to go beyond the mundane household chores (which with Prestidigitation would basically be a non-issue anyways).


And yeah, I think Fox's Cunning is definitely the most important of the 2nd level buff spells so I'd probably take that as a third one. Giving world's most brilliant scientists some extra punch for even just 10 minutes at a time (you can keep it up for an hour or so) could accomplish great things. And of course, it'd make your own life much easier; so much easier to see the answer when your mind's eye sees further. Strength, Dexterity and Constitution are mostly useful for crisis situations (where your other spells are better) or for sports (which are cool but it'd be cheating and it's not all that useful to get some significant advantages on that front anyways), Eagle's Splendor is mostly useful for convincing other people of something and Owl's Insight would mostly make you more alert and "zen", but Fox's Cunning would legitimately give you access to a level of thought you cannot reach otherwise and break some of the most fundamental limitations of a human mind.

[Rift_Wolf]

Funny as it works, but Clerics don't actually need deities for their powers. A deity can be in a world without proven existence of divinities (e.g. Eberron) and still receive their powers, or be the Cleric of an ideal and get powers anyways. Clerics of specific deities are the only ones dependent on said deities for spells. So it'd be hard to prove anything beyond "Magic, peeps!"

But yeah, Animate Dead has the advantage of being permanent. Unseen Servants and the like expire so you have a very limited number and will have to keep recasting it, and you won't have access to Permanency but Undead hang around forever and require no sleep or maintenance. Undead are also rather versatile (tho keeping a Skeleton or a Zombie does probably require some work to stop it from stinking and in general being an eyesore). Getting access to corpses would suck but it's not entirely impossible; and when you want to go beyond the mundane household chores (which with Prestidigitation would basically be a non-issue anyways).


And yeah, I think Fox's Cunning is definitely the most important of the 2nd level buff spells so I'd probably take that as a third one. Giving world's most brilliant scientists some extra punch for even just 10 minutes at a time (you can keep it up for an hour or so) could accomplish great things. And of course, it'd make your own life much easier; so much easier to see the answer when your mind's eye sees further. Strength, Dexterity and Constitution are mostly useful for crisis situations (where your other spells are better) or for sports (which are cool but it'd be cheating and it's not all that useful to get some significant advantages on that front anyways), Eagle's Splendor is mostly useful for convincing other people of something and Owl's Insight would mostly make you more alert and "zen", but Fox's Cunning would legitimately give you access to a level of thought you cannot reach otherwise and break some of the most fundamental limitations of a human mind.

So I could be a divinely powered cleric of Atheism? This may make me convert my previous stance on cleric retraining!

Yeah animate Dead is permanent. It also involves the actual remains of a human being. Even if you got Willing participants, chances are it won't look good on a cv. It's also 4th level, iirc, so out of reach (core no splats).

I like mental buffs, though. Eagles Splendour has benign uses beyond persuasion; join a local am-dram group and buff up the actors before showtime. Fox's Cunning would probably be the best though, for revision groups or understanding high academia and condensing it into layman's terms before the buff runs out :)
Greater application completion, though, would be a legitimate 3Rd level spell real-world. I looked in the books and didn't find it, but I recall there being a transcription spell in some 3.5 splat. You have no idea how much that spell appeals to me.

[Âmesang]

Resist Energy: Now humanity is immune to lava, sun burns, natural cold, etc. for a reasonably priced amulet.
Reasonably priced compared with "what?" Last I checked gold was (approximately) $17,198.125 US per pound. :smalltongue:

[Rift_Wolf]

Reasonably priced compared with "what?" Last I checked gold was (approximately) $17,198.125 US per pound. :smalltongue:

Another reason Unseen Servant is better than Animate Dead; how are you meant to get 8500 dollars worth of black onyx? And hoe do you fit it in the corpses eyes?

[Tvtyrant]

Reasonably priced compared with "what?" Last I checked gold was (approximately) $17,198.125 US per pound. :smalltongue:

How many millionaires are there on Earth? Around 12 million? What is a couple hundred thousand dollars to replace all need for AC, fear of burns, and to let you walk on lava?

Industrially it makes humans effectively immune to electricity or fire, or heck even cold like Antarctica. Imagine how fine the welding of a gloveless human would be, or having scientists who don't need an expensive and fragile habitat to take samples in the antarctic.

It may not happen on a everyday basis, but the world has enough money and need to buy millions of the things.

[Honest Tiefling]

Another reason Unseen Servant is better than Animate Dead; how are you meant to get 8500 dollars worth of black onyx? And hoe do you fit it in the corpses eyes?

Well, a better question is, what counts as black onyx? If it has a bunch of white stripes in it, is it still black onyx for the purposes of the spell? Naturally occurring true black onyx is very rare, and most examples you see are treated via heat or chemicals. If artificially treated gems count, you're in business. If not...You're in for a world of frustration given that you have to make sure each and every stone is real and not treated.

As for the bodies, just cheat your way into becoming a funeral home director. Use your charisma to convince a whole heap of people to have closed casket funerals, and badda bing, you've got a few bodies ready for harvesting.

Another question is how valuable diamonds needed for Resurrection have to be. It doesn't say diamond GEMS, just diamonds. So if diamonds themselves work, get a truckload of industrial lab-created gemstones and crack out those Resurrections like death is going out of style. That's another vote for going cleric, as people would probably pay good money for that.

[Rift_Wolf]

Another question is how valuable diamonds needed for Resurrection have to be. It doesn't say diamond GEMS, just diamonds. So if diamonds themselves work, get a truckload of industrial lab-created gemstones and crack out those Resurrections like death is going out of style. That's another vote for going cleric, as people would probably pay good money for that.

Ah but you see the problem is Raise Dead/Resurrection take away 2 points of Constitution from 1st levellers, so even if I bring the dead back, they'd be more likely to die soon after. Really if you're going to bring someone back from the dead you're better off looking into the heart of the TARDIS.
Also from a philosophic point, I prefer sorcerers to clerics as sorcerers are powered from within; clerics are powered from higher and without.

I'm finding it interesting that while some are coming up with 'magic to make everyday life easier', others are coming up with 'magic for domination and profit'. I'm tempted to say Dimension Door or Expeditious Retreat should be on the list purely for buses.

I'm adding another coda; no material components. Eschew Materials wipes out the superfluous ones, and ones over 1gp are gonna Be hard to find for the everyman.

[Honest Tiefling]

Ah but you see the problem is Raise Dead/Resurrection take away 2 points of Constitution from 1st levellers, so even if I bring the dead back, they'd be more likely to die soon after. Really if you're going to bring someone back from the dead you're better off looking into the heart of the TARDIS.

You're a sorcerer. You can overlook that part by lying through your perfect teeth. THEY don't know that, you're the only spellcaster in existence. Just get the money upfront. Besides, some years of life is better then none anyway.


I'm finding it interesting that while some are coming up with 'magic to make everyday life easier', others are coming up with 'magic for domination and profit'.

I'm not seeing the difference here.

[Eldariel]

I'm finding it interesting that while some are coming up with 'magic to make everyday life easier', others are coming up with 'magic for domination and profit'. I'm tempted to say Dimension Door or Expeditious Retreat should be on the list purely for buses.

I'm adding another coda; no material components. Eschew Materials wipes out the superfluous ones, and ones over 1gp are gonna Be hard to find for the everyman.

To be fair, as a level 6 Sorcerer you can already be the most powerful human in existence with relatively little effort if you so desire. Acquiring something, if it exists, would certainly be possible. Either way, as it stands I think "easing everyday life" is mostly a waste of this ability, since even small portion of this power makes most of your everyday struggles trivial (and it's not like one really has too much trouble with them even with no magic whatsoever; let alone with enough money to buy any technology). As such, it's meaningless. However, I don't really see the point of domination. Profit, to a point where you can reasonably negate most of the other minor issues in life is probably a good plan, but fairly trivial to accomplish with a set of utility spells (it's worth noting that spells like Tongues, Detect Thoughts, Silent Image & co. are amazing but unless you can craft items, they're only going to change the lives of a minor number of people around your person).

My own interest would be in seeking horizons that are difficult for humanity to breach at the present. As such, anything advancing scientific discovery is high in the books. Anything breaking the conservation of energy would likewise be fairly amazing. Some way to bring truth to the fore in politics would certainly move things away from leading with charisma and towards leading with facts, though it probably wouldn't do quite enough just yet (of course, it'd be very difficult to do this in a way that doesn't compromise your own integrity). Either way, I think the greatest thing this gift could accomplish is an significant improvement to human life experience on a global scale within maybe a few decades. By comparison, one's own life seems completely insignificant to me (though trivially accomplished in the side without devoting the power slots to it).

[Tuvarkz]

There's something I'd need to work on first: Get my Charisma to 13 to cast all those spells-of course, once one reaches 10 and getting cantrips, getting the ego and confidence boost should be easy as magic access increases alongside it.
Of course, the alternative would be to get the Sage Bloodline and go for the juicy Int instead of Cha.

[Âmesang]

Industrially it makes humans effectively immune to electricity or fire, or heck even cold like Antarctica. Imagine how fine the welding of a gloveless human would be, or having scientists who don't need an expensive and fragile habitat to take samples in the antarctic.
Which reminds me that my current sorceress owns a necklace of adaptation and can cast endure elements, protection from energy, and greater teleport. Is there anything else she needs to safely explore the moon, Mars, or the rest of outer space?

(It might be better to wait until she can shapechange into a nymph for that juicy bonus to her eventual Fortitude saves against cosmic rays and whatnot.)

[Tvtyrant]

Which reminds me that my current sorceress owns a necklace of adaptation and can cast endure elements, protection from energy, and greater teleport. Is there anything else she needs to safely explore the moon, Mars, or the rest of outer space?

(It might be better to wait until she can shapechange into a nymph for that juicy bonus to her eventual Fortitude saves against cosmic rays and whatnot.)

The easy ways to feal with that are to become an undead, or to make an animated object and the. Possess it with Magic Jar.

[Selion]

0- mage hand, mending, prestidigitation, message, ghost sound
1- charm person, see allignment, comprehend languages, unseen servant
2- detect thoughts, disguise others
3- major image

Then become a politician and enjoy your army

[gadren]

Does continual flame power up solar panels? I'd assume yes.

Infinite clean energy.

It's a good starting point.

[Susano-wo]

I like a lot of the suggestions, but I would also like to stick up for damage spells a bit. Most people you meet are, like, 1st lvl commoners/experts/warriors(maybe). maybe They have another level or two under their belts.I CL 6 magic missile does 10.5 damage unerringly to one target if you focus it. That's enough to down most people (a toughened opponent, such as a veteran solder or police officer, might take two), and that's if it damages them as if they were D&D characters. Real people don't increase in toughness the way D&D characters do, so they would be closer to the 2-3HP a standard D&D human is, meaning that one missile might down them, 2 certainly will, and 3 might kill them outright. Not to mention the psychological impact of getting smacked around by magical force (or, say, an arc of fire?:smallamused:) Or holding a charge of a 5d6 shocking grasp. :smallbiggrin:

And as far as machine guns go....good luck carrying that thing around in public. :smallamused:

[Xar Zarath]

Hmm off topic has anyone compiled a list of all these kinds of threads? we've had quite a few where we list down what sort of spells or class we would be in real life? Anyone have links to more?


Do remember that, IRL, you are unavoidably human. This is Pathfinder. As such, you can have six additional known spells. Maximizing them means 3 0-level spells, 2 1st-level spells, and 1 2nd-level spells, so your known spell list is actually:
0 - 10
1st - 6
2nd - 3
3rd - 1

0th: Prestidigitation (staple), Detect Magic (just in case), Read magic (also just in case), Dancing Lights (when you need a light), Mage Hand (handy!), Mending (fixer upper), Breeze (ahh fresh air), Ghost sound (cheap and effective), Penumbra (glare away!) and Spark (handy for fires)

1st: Endure Elements (keep heat and cold away), Ant Haul (carry all that stuff), Comprehend Languages (Cool to have), Charm Person (be nice to be friendly), Disguise Self (necessary and fun) and Heightened Awareness (didn't know about this spell, in real life it would be tremendously helpful)

2nd: Fox's Cunning (being smart is great!), False Life ( healing is nice, for myself of course) and Bear's Endurance (would be nice to be fit)

3rd: Tongues ( I would like to be able to carry a conversation with others in any language imaginable)

As for bloodlines, I'm not really sure sorry because I prefer a Wizard to sorcerers.

[Eldariel]

I like a lot of the suggestions, but I would also like to stick up for damage spells a bit. Most people you meet are, like, 1st lvl commoners/experts/warriors(maybe). maybe They have another level or two under their belts.I CL 6 magic missile does 10.5 damage unerringly to one target if you focus it. That's enough to down most people (a toughened opponent, such as a veteran solder or police officer, might take two), and that's if it damages them as if they were D&D characters. Real people don't increase in toughness the way D&D characters do, so they would be closer to the 2-3HP a standard D&D human is, meaning that one missile might down them, 2 certainly will, and 3 might kill them outright. Not to mention the psychological impact of getting smacked around by magical force (or, say, an arc of fire?:smallamused:) Or holding a charge of a 5d6 shocking grasp. :smallbiggrin:

I'm really not seeing the practical utility in killing people though (or knocking them to bleedout which is what you'd mostly be doing). Like, how often in real life would you ever actually both, rationally and morally wish to kill someone? Killing someone does tremendous amounts of damage to oneself psychologically, and is a huge hassle that immediately gets you targeted by all sorts of legal organizations, and potentially illegal ones too depending on whom you kill. Even if the murder weapon can never be determined (plausible if you only use the power once), that alone is not grounds for releasing the prime suspect so you'd have to make darn sure to not get caught, which would just be a constant hassle.

Overall, I'd say if you lean towards needing some people killed it's much preferable to use enchantment magic and get someone else to do it, preferably without being aware of you (e.g. Prestidigitation/Disguise Self/Invisibility can make it impossible for them to recognize you, and Charm Person/Suggestion would make them very inclined to do it for you). But I'd stay out of that if I were a Sorcerer with world-altering abilities; murder is a messy game that tends to devour its players, and thanks to your unique set of abilities you'd be incredibly useful for humanity as a whole as a free agent - utility-wise, any actions that places your freedom or life at a significant risk are thus to be avoided.

[avr]

Again, how often do you find yourself in a situation where you think 'if only I had a flash grenade'?
See, there's one difference between this scenario and real life. That's the 6th level sorcerer in it. Where there's one piece of D&D you can't be absolutely sure there aren't others, and something with actual punch seems like a handy security blanket. I included color spray, detect magic & read magic because that's the minimum required to deal with a magical world IMO.

[Rift_Wolf]

I like a lot of the suggestions, but I would also like to stick up for damage spells a bit. Most people you meet are, like, 1st lvl commoners/experts/warriors(maybe). maybe They have another level or two under their belts.I CL 6 magic missile does 10.5 damage unerringly to one target if you focus it. That's enough to down most people (a toughened opponent, such as a veteran solder or police officer, might take two), and that's if it damages them as if they were D&D characters. Real people don't increase in toughness the way D&D characters do, so they would be closer to the 2-3HP a standard D&D human is, meaning that one missile might down them, 2 certainly will, and 3 might kill them outright. Not to mention the psychological impact of getting smacked around by magical force (or, say, an arc of fire?:smallamused:) Or holding a charge of a 5d6 shocking grasp. :smallbiggrin:

And as far as machine guns go....good luck carrying that thing around in public. :smallamused:

Along with the Animate Dead suggestions, I'm finding it slightly alarming that the best use of magic being suggested is 'kill lots of people' and 'maybe kill soldiers/cops'. If the aim was magic as protection, Daze and Ray of Frost would be more than adequate. How determined an assailant do you regularly face that you'd consider Shocking Grasp? Unless you worked in a slaughterhouse during a fence shortage, you probably won't get that much mileage from it.

I agree with the 'use of magic to further human society' as a goal, though. Spells like Comprehend Languages, Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom would certainly help with that.

[avr]

It occurs to me that I might have undersold shrink item. It's not just for carrying a bicycle in your pocket or turning a laptop into a thumbtop. Once you've established to the world that you really can do magic there should be engineering applications; you should be able to rake in a few million each time someone wants to launch a small satellite, for a start. Talk to NASA or the ESA or some such and they'll shortly have a design which doesn't engage its fuel tanks until they revert to full size; another 216 cubic feet of tank+contents for neligible weight should make interplanetary transport much easier.

[Rift_Wolf]

See, there's one difference between this scenario and real life. That's the 6th level sorcerer in it. Where there's one piece of D&D you can't be absolutely sure there aren't others, and something with actual punch seems like a handy security blanket. I included color spray, detect magic & read magic because that's the minimum required to deal with a magical world IMO.

Detect Magic and Read Magic I can agree with. And I guess having some protection from potential Ax-Crazy sorcerers might be useful. I'd probably choose Grease though. It has real world applications, and will make the other Sorcerer look faintly ridiculous while I run away.

Shrink Item is the engineers choice, for sure. Seeing as shrunk items stay shrunk for six days before popping back to full size, that's long enough for lunar travel. You could feasibly send unmanned craft loaded with building materials to the moon, then set about creating offworld power stations, mines, ore refineries.

[Eldariel]

It occurs to me that I might have undersold shrink item. It's not just for carrying a bicycle in your pocket or turning a laptop into a thumbtop. Once you've established to the world that you really can do magic there should be engineering applications; you should be able to rake in a few million each time someone wants to launch a small satellite, for a start. Talk to NASA or the ESA or some such and they'll shortly have a design which doesn't engage its fuel tanks until they revert to full size; another 216 cubic feet of tank+contents for neligible weight should make interplanetary transport much easier.

The principal issue is that you have no way to make it permanent. While 6 days sounds like a lot, for a space mission or the like it's really not all that and Permanency is a level 5 spell and I'm not sure you could magically craft the attribute into anything. Otherwise, micro- and nanotechnology would love you with the ability to make the units 10 times more compact - so it's a matter of whether you can infuse the ability into items permanently or not. But yeah, even at the 6 day margin it'd certainly have a vast array of applications.

[SangoProduction]

Funny as it works, but Clerics don't actually need deities for their powers.

Does it actually matter what the "source" of the powers are? It's magic. Say it's from the power of albino Peacock feathers, and prove it (As much as you can prove magic), and they will believe you.

However, due to the unprovable nature of deities, you still couldn't convince many people that one of the deities is responsible for your powers (especially as you are the only one to develop them).

[SangoProduction]

For me, as a streamer and professional gamer, unlike what everyone else seems to think, Wisdom and Charisma boosts would be absolutely great. Wisdom to know "Hey, it's a smart idea for them to wait in that brush to kill me me...I should probably not walk in to it." as well as to constantly notice changes in formation and the minimap to know when best to go in.
I'd actually rarely use the Wisdom boost except when it's absolutely critical to use it (like tournaments and...well, recordings or streaming), as I'd fear that I'd not be able to learn to improve myself, and instead rely on it. Actually an incredibly terrifying thought.
Charisma...well, when your life revolves around entertaining (or teaching...thus keeping them interested), then...well, it's perhaps the best stat in the entire universe.

As for other spells? Unseen servant, definitely. I don't mind a cluttered area, but others do, and for that, I'd use it to clean up...and plug in this damned air purifier.

Comprehend languages: YAY! I understand you Assembly Code! I understand! We can make up now~
I do think that some coding styles however....erg. They might be so bad that not even this will help.

Prestidigitation: Oh, I need to brush my teeth? Nope. I need to take a shower? Nope. Do I need to reach down to get my ear buds? Nope. So I get to games all day if I install a really comfy reclining toilet in front of m desk? Well, I still need to eat and drink. Get the damned servant to do it! It's not that far of a walk!

Continual Flame: Because flock electricity.

Dimension Door: Because it's teleportation. Come on! It's awesome.

Charm Person: Because I could really use a raise yesterday.

Bloodline:
Djinni if Electricity Resistance means I don't short out my computer components when I work with em.
Nanite otherwise: Bring humanity to a new age. We can reverse engineer this shift. Not to mention Disguise Self so I can say the stupidest stuff, and feel no shame. Could help with outrageous pick up lines, that I fear too much for my safety to use otherwise.

[Âmesang]

I'm just reminded of a question I had because sometimes I imagine what would happen if my sorceress found herself in the real world: what kind of sunglasses would be best (if any?) at hiding the "glowing blue eyes" caused by arcane sight? I imagine that in-and-of-itself would certainly get a spellcaster noticed…

[smcmike]

First choice - endure elements. Nice, simple, subtle, and a huge quality of life improvement. The only reservations I have about it - if I'm always comfy, will the nice days seem as nice? Will I get annoyed at those who whine about the weather? And, finally, why not just move to California?

Still, I think it's worth it, particularly if you like the outdoors, but don't enjoy freezing.

Second choice - comprehend languages. Again, subtle. I'm not looking to get noticed. I would like to travel and read foreign books, though.

Third choice - Fly. Screw subtlety.

[Talieth]

We have already mentionned that a few spell would allow us to be Rich, with a big R. (mainly the ones that tell the laws of physic to look the other way, or those which have a great economic value).

But as a 6th lvl sorcerer, we can also take the Craft Wondrous Item feat. Once we have demonstrated our power, it wouldn't take long before we have proposition to monetize that. Then we can craft permanent version of our spell ...

I will use equivalence of 1 Gp (the price of One pound of cinnamon (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/equipment.html)) = 20$ (the first price i found in our world for that same pound of cinnamon)
All items produced will use the Use-activated or continuous or Single use, use-activated spell effect (for the mundane users)

How much do you think people would pay for :
a table of Comprehend Languages : for those internationnal meetings, companies (or even th UN) would pay millions. That would cost Spell level (1) x caster level (1) x 2,000 gp = 2,000 gp. Or 40 000$
A shirt of feather fall (1 use) would cost Spell level (1) x caster level (6) x 50 gp = 300 gp or 2,000$
A lot of people already pay hundred of thousand $ to appear 10 years younger. Now you sell them a necklace of Youthful Appearance that cost you 40,000k
You can enchant a house to have apermanent unseen servant leterally built-in ! (again, 40,000$ cost)
This figurine of Mount would cost 40,000$ but this horse won't die of old age and comes with a bit and bridle and a riding saddle.
An item of Endure Element with only one charge per day would cost 2,000gp divided by 2 (24 hours duration) then divided by 5 (on charge per day) : 200gp, or 4,000$ ...
A bed of Infernal Healing also come to mind ...

[Kurald Galain]

I'm just reminded of a question I had because sometimes I imagine what would happen if my sorceress found herself in the real world: what kind of sunglasses would be best (if any?) at hiding the "glowing blue eyes" caused by arcane sight? I imagine that in-and-of-itself would certainly get a spellcaster noticed…

"Oh, I love your contacts! Where can I buy those?" :smallcool:

[Âmesang]

Alternatively current gold prices seem to place 1 gp at around $344 or so; I suppose its possible that pure cinnamon is rarer in your typical D&D world than here (despite certainly innumerable ways of magically manufacturing it)?

[Susano-wo]

How often do I need a weapon that is completely concealed? Well, I haven't to date, but that's not to say that I might not. I'm just saying there is utility to them that people seem to be downplaying too much. I would include at least one direct attack spell on my list, though I probably would not include more, just given that its primary utility is "just in case," unless I decided to be a vigilante of some sort (as I am typing this, sitting at my computer desk, procrastinating on doing laundry and dishes, probably not too likely.:smallwink:).

And to clarify...and I know I should not be surprised that I have to do this, but I am :smallannoyed:...I never said anything about the best use of magic being to "maybe kill some soldiers/cops." I was discussing the level of lethality that a spell would have if brought into the real world, and used them as examples of relatively hardened opponent that would have more HP under D&D rules (though I suppose I could have also included, say, martial artists and professional fighters, such as boxers, who might also have a higher HP total). I'm just saying that being truly armed at all times that you have, say, a 1st level slot free is valuable.

Though, casting time is an interesting wrinkle, and one that potentially puts a damper on the utility of standard action spells to be used at a moments notice (such as attack spells). In D&D you humina humina without the opponent getting to do much to react, but every second you cast a spell, someone can act. Though they probably don't know that your weird chanting is dangerous, necessarily, in a fight situation, they would be likely to still approach and attack(they could have up to 4 seconds to do so, depending on how much time a 'standard action' casting time spell takes to actually cast.)

Also, things like Daze interact with the real world strangely. normally, the best you can do with daze is trade standard actions, riiight, you take no actions with daze.:smallredface: Hmm, I can see the utility in that over a normal attack spell, though I suppose I just think the ability to have a ranged attack available if I felt the need to use it is probably worth a 1st level slot.

Regarding my picks overall, I don't know which exact spells would get the final cut, but things that give me useful capabilities beyond what I could achieve without magic would get first pick, (such as invisibility and fly), and spells that would just be useful and nice on a daily basic would also rank high (like prestidigitation, which also has a "cannot accomplish this without magic" side as well, or endure elements--winter camping, here I come!:smallbiggrin:)

[Yahzi]

as people would probably pay good money for that.
Understatement of the year... :smallbiggrin:

Sorcerers aren't limited to just the Sorc list; they can take other spells with DM approval. Just trade all your spells in for CMW, Remove Disease, and Zone of Truth. Picking those spells doesn't just make your life easier or make you wealthy; it makes life better for other people.

People who picked damage spells don't seem to understand that you can just buy a pistol for 1 gp.

[Zanos]

Yeah animate Dead is permanent. It also involves the actual remains of a human being. Even if you got Willing participants, chances are it won't look good on a cv. It's also 4th level, iirc, so out of reach (core no splats).
My roommate comes from a family of funeral home directors, believe it or not. It does take a bit of work, but there's something to be said for 24 replaceable and fairly strong waveringly loyal servants. Lesser animate also works on small and medium animals, if you have moral compunctions about desecrating human remains. I'm an organ donor myself, and I don't place a lot of sentimental value in a dead body. :smalltongue:

You could use blood money to circumvent the cost of the onyx, but that seems like a waste of a slot considering with your other spells you could be making a ton of money anyway. Ya got me on the core only thing though, missed that line. I use the SRD a lot so i forget whats actually core in PF content wise.

[Rift_Wolf]

And to clarify...and I know I should not be surprised that I have to do this, but I am :smallannoyed:...I never said anything about the best use of magic being to "maybe kill some soldiers/cops." I was discussing the level of lethality that a spell would have if brought into the real world, and used them as examples of relatively hardened opponent that would have more HP under D&D rules (though I suppose I could have also included, say, martial artists and professional fighters, such as boxers, who might also have a higher HP total). I'm just saying that being truly armed at all times that you have, say, a 1st level slot free is valuable.


I may have misread your post; sorry if I offended you. I'm pretty pacifist in personal philosophy so it never really occurred to me to distinguish 'is this lethal?' from 'is this lethal enough?'. Self defence is one thing, but using deadly force feels like a big no no to me. I'm beginning to soften on my stance on Colour Spray in this respect, though it still feels overkill. I'd probably take Merciful Spell as a Feat, but that's just me.

Thanks for the comments anyway! It was just intended as a thought experiment and writing exercise (I'm working on a story involving modern day spellcasters) but you've all given me things to think about :)

[smcmike]

Understatement of the year... :smallbiggrin:

Sorcerers aren't limited to just the Sorc list; they can take other spells with DM approval. Just trade all your spells in for CMW, Remove Disease, and Zone of Truth. Picking those spells doesn't just make your life easier or make you wealthy; it makes life better for other people.

People who picked damage spells don't seem to understand that you can just buy a pistol for 1 gp.

Remove disease and cure major wounds, sure. Spending the rest of your life saving sick kids sounds pretty rewarding, I guess, though you'd still be haunted by the fact that you can't save them all. Of course, that requires that you either do your magic in secrecy or set yourself up as an actual faith healer - either way a pretty strange life. Even if you don't use it to its potential, keeping friends and family ticking for a while is nice (though, again, you will lose in the end).

Zone of Truth, though, I dunno. What good would that do? And doesn't it allow a saving throw? Does the caster even know if someone makes that throw?

[Susano-wo]

I may have misread your post; sorry if I offended you. I'm pretty pacifist in personal philosophy so it never really occurred to me to distinguish 'is this lethal?' from 'is this lethal enough?'. Self defence is one thing, but using deadly force feels like a big no no to me. I'm beginning to soften on my stance on Colour Spray in this respect, though it still feels overkill. I'd probably take Merciful Spell as a Feat, but that's just me.

Thanks for the comments anyway! It was just intended as a thought experiment and writing exercise (I'm working on a story involving modern day spellcasters) but you've all given me things to think about :)

Naw, I wasn't offended, just a bit annoyed. Not a big deal. Of course, I am most definitely not a pacifist, and there are situations that I would have no moral trouble using it that you may have qualms, so that adjusts its relative utility, if we are talking about its use to our own selves outside of abstract concerns. (And if you want to continue that part of the conversation, I'd be happy to in PMs, but probably a topic to keep out of the thread itself :smallwink:)

Though once again, if you are talking about modern spellcasters, then yeah, you are definitely going to have to consider how direct attack spells interact with things, if they exist at all, since you know some people are going to take them, even if they aren't the best use of resources, or have negative moral consequences

[Qwertystop]

You're all missing something.

The idea is that one person gets the abilities of a 6th-level Sorcerer, according to Pathfinder core rules.

In the real world. Which contains, among other things, Pathfinder.

What would happen to Paizo when people caught on?

What more could you pull off if you managed to convince them to issue some... errata?

[Florian]

I'd chose the Psychic bloodline, switching from arcane caster to psychic caster. Don't want to embarass myself by waving and shouting around in public.

[Seward]

I'm sticking to core for this.

My spell choices are highly utilitarian. I'd want stuff I use all the time. If I actually got into a fight I'd probably use silent image or levitate or something to evade it - I've managed to live nearly 50 years without getting into anything more dangerous than a schoolyard scuffle. I must admit to being tempted by locate object, but it didn't make the cut. If I had the APG for extra spells, I'd go with Locate Object, Crafter's Fortune and Touch of the Sea (I'm no longer a strong swimmer like I was as a kid).

Level 3: Heroism without question. It just makes you better at everything for an entire hour.
Level 2: Make Whole and Levitate (yes, I want to be able to lift 600lb of stuff with my mind! Also I don't find being smart or tough for 6 minutes a casting useful enough in real life, but I usually don't need to lift heavy objects for very long, especially after I slide a tenser's disk under whatever it is)
Level 1: Unseen Servant (OMG, the chores that would save!), Endure Elements, Comprehend Languages, Floating Disk and Silent Image (All my life I've wanted to be able to share things I am imagining with others but lack artistic talent. Imagine showing the actual scene when GMing, your mental image of your character, an engineering schematic, a memory, a dream)
Level 0: Prestidigitation, Mending, Mage Hand, Open Close, Read Magic (you never know and I'm too lazy to learn spellcraft), Light and I guess Detect Magic. So maybe I need a point or two of spellcraft.

If we're talking Pathfinder we can't leave out the bloodline stuff. By level 6 you've got two powers and two spells already, plus bloodline arcana.

Arcane's cool for the familiar and invisibility but I'm just not enough of a bastard to do much with invisibility (which is also why I didn't bother with Charm Person, hypnosis, detect thoughts and the like) and I don't see spending feats on metamagic.

Most of the others aren't very appealing, too combat oriented.

Strangely Undead is pretty good. While the ability to affect undead with mind affecting spells is pointless, as is Grave Touch, False Life, DR 5 against nonlethal damage and cold resistance 5 are all pretty nice for being more durable in day-to-day living.

But in the end I'd have to go with Celestial. Bless isn't much use, but Resist Energy could be handy when doing the dishes or screwing around with a power supply and acid5/cold5 are things you could run into in day-to-day life (acid less so, but I've been in a chemistry lab and worked with car batteries). It's heavenly fire that I like - a little healing goes a long way in a mundane world and if I'm for some reason up against evil, it's kind of like having a zip-gun.

[gadren]

Silent Image covers most Illusory needs, making Color Spray and bit overkill. Again, how often do you find yourself in a situation where you think 'if only I had a flash grenade'?

At least three times in my life, but I've had to work in East Los Angeles.

Edit: (For those not familiar with the area, East LA can be... less than safe.)