How Vaarsuvius can still be useful

[SurlySeraph]

I realize that there was a "How V can still be useful" thread created right after s/he invisibly slunk away from the battlefield. However, I don't want to be accused of threadomancy, and I think my suggestion merits its own topic. We last saw Miko praying to the gods. We've established that she'll accept pretty much any answer that will reassure her she was right. Now, V has mentioned that s/he has a low Charisma modifier, but Miko's raging narcissism should give a hefty circumstance bonus on a Disguise Self or Bluff check, depending on which one V should make to sound like a god opening Miko's cell (hey, s/he's invisible, Miko won't know) and ordering her to go help out.
Thoughts?

[Twilight Jack]

That would be distilled liquid awesome, especially if it isn't revealed to have been V talking to her until after Miko is gone out onto the field.

[melchizedek]

Miko probably won't be terribly useful at the moment even if she were to go help out. She's been deprived of all of her useful Paladin abilities. She could still fight, but she would be highly ineffective.

[Sage in the Playground]

Is V even near the prison tower?

[Citizen Joe]

Wouldn't the Antimagic field negate her invisibility?

[NeonRonin]

Miko probably won't be terribly useful at the moment even if she were to go help out. She's been deprived of all of her useful Paladin abilities. She could still fight, but she would be highly ineffective.

I'm still wondering what's going to happen when Miko finally does get onto the battlefield and realizes she's no longer immune to fear. Would she still blindly charge into a horde of hobbos, or would a more 'human' impulse override it?

Of course, it also depends on whether she's become so conditioned to battle that the loss of fear immunity doesn't matter as much any longer.

[MReav]

Wouldn't the Antimagic field negate her invisibility?

V can talk from outside of them.

However, I think V could be useful if V raided the scroll repository.

[TheNovak]

Wouldn't the Antimagic field negate her invisibility?

Not if s/he opened it from the outside. I think.

Well, maybe s/he'd need the actual keys, not just a Knock spell.

[David Argall]

Well, it is possible. Miko should get out of that cell some way, and get involved in the big fight. So V would be a way to manage that.

Still, I don't really see the mage doing that. They do not like each other and V is way in love with magic. So the elf is much more likely to go seeking some magic.

Now a comic that might appeal here is that V does try this and gives Miko some song and dance, counting on her invisibility. [S]he opens the cell and supplies Miko with a weapon. When [s]he does so Miko says...

M: "I believe you have forgotten this jail is under an anti-magic spell."

V: "But that would mean I am standing right next to a raving psychopath who ranks my death among her greater goals, and whom I've just armed..."

M: "Yes"

The two stare at each other for a panel, M with huge grin, V very worried.
Final panel, V is fleeing down the hall with M in hot pursuit.

[Axl_Rose]

I think V could pick up a dagger or some other sort of melee weapon, and in his/her stealthyness, stab someone critical, possibly Red Cloak or Tsukiko (sp?)

[TheNovak]

For 1d4-1 damage? I dunno, the Giant's a pretty big stickler for the rules. It would have to be on someone really, really, really wounded to help. Even a hobbo could survive that. Or hell, a regular goblin.

[melchizedek]

Where are you getting the -1 damage? I imagine Miko has a positive strength modifier, which would increase the damage, not decrease it.

Also, I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Miko has at least one level of monk, which would make her more effective with her bare fists than with a dagger.

[Aquillion]

Miko probably won't be terribly useful at the moment even if she were to go help out. She's been deprived of all of her useful Paladin abilities. She could still fight, but she would be highly ineffective.Not useful against Xykon or Redcloak, certainly, but she hasn't lost her level of Monk. She's still a high level character with her wisdom to AC, full - 1 BAB, lethal-damage fists and Flurry of Blows, so she can take out a horde of lower-level hobgoblins no problem, even unarmed.

[Xykon_Fan]

Where are you getting the -1 damage? I imagine Miko has a positive strength modifier, which would increase the damage, not decrease it.

Also, I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Miko has at least one level of monk, which would make her more effective with her bare fists than with a dagger.

They were talking about V, not Miko. I personally think with an INT off the charts, V wouldn't forget the AMF. However, it is a comic, so comedy takes precedent. I predict he/she/it will be grabbing scrolls, though. Maybe Giant just decided to leave him/her/it out of the whole thing for the remainder.

[the_tick_rules]

let the wizard be the meat shield for once lol.

[Quikngruvn]

I think V could pick up a dagger or some other sort of melee weapon, and in his/her stealthyness, stab someone critical, possibly Red Cloak or Tsukiko (sp?)

I find this very unlikely, because if you attack someone while Invisible, you immediately become visible. V only got 13 minutes (1 min/lvl) of Invisibility when the spell was cast-- V's gotta get somewhere quick to restock.

[Nightmarenny]

Miko probably won't be terribly useful at the moment even if she were to go help out. She's been deprived of all of her useful Paladin abilities. She could still fight, but she would be highly ineffective.
Shes still the highest level Good(reletivly speaking anyway) character we got. She has a huge Base attack and can cut through Hobbo like butter.

[Gnome King]

Where are you getting the -1 damage? I imagine Miko has a positive strength modifier, which would increase the damage, not decrease it.

Also, I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Miko has at least one level of monk, which would make her more effective with her bare fists than with a dagger.

I believe he is reffering to V's strength, not mikos.

[Gavin Sage]

I've been of the opinion V's most useful course would have been to pick up a bow and get on the walls. By level 13 even a mage is has two attacks and I don't think it possible for an elf to have a Dex penalty.

And unless the Antimagic Field is down then V wouldn't be invisible. So he's not going near Miko. And being Neutral he's likely through with the battle, that whole "better part of valor"/wimp thing.

[Nightmarenny]

I've been of the opinion V's most useful course would have been to pick up a bow and get on the walls. By level 13 even a mage is has two attacks and I don't think it possible for an elf to have a Dex penalty.

And unless the Antimagic Field is down then V wouldn't be invisible. So he's not going near Miko. And being Neutral he's likely through with the battle, that whole "better part of valor"/wimp thing.
She could go spooge some scrolls off of weaker wizards that died.

[Studoku]

She could go spooge some scrolls off of weaker wizards that died.

Or better still, go to the magic library that she was scribing spells in ages ago. If the hobgoblins havn't looted it, it's probably full of scrolls.

[Closet_Skeleton]

V is probably hiding somewhere while he rests.

Or looting some scrolls.

I would be awesome the the Order was getting beaten up and suddenly V appeared wearing scrolls in bandoleers.

[WarforgedGoblin]

Give the elf a non-composite longbow and have V go to town behind some cover.

[Korias]

Let us think for a moment.

If V Was going to get Miko, he needs to deal with the anti magic field.
Can we assume that the feild is limited to the cells, and not the corridor?
If so, V can easily go in and convince Miko to fight: Miko doesnt have good Listen checks, as seen in the fight with belkar.

If V is going to get scrolls: He will be heading for the throne room.

If V Is level 13, then he gets +7/+2 for BAB, right? That'll do squat to a hobgoblin.

[BisectedBrioche]

I have one hyperlink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm).

[Magi_Ring_O]

I have one hyperlink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm).

V has no spells left so it wouldn't work.

[EvilElitest]

Just a note on the attack thing. If V used the seldom used quarter staff, and hit mr. necro freak in the back while she was casting a high level spell, well that lets v get two attacks (if it counts as a surprise round) 1d6 each, and hopefully hurt the already weakened girl. Unlikely though unless she is on the verge of death, V would be better off getting scrolls
from,
EE

[Fuzzy_Juan]

V is also still an Elf. As such, V can pick up a longsword and join in the battle if necessary. Even as a wizard, V likely has more hitpoints and a better base attack bonus than a fighter of 4th level or lower...so while not very effective, V is still an 'ok' fighter to assist until V can find a wand or some other means of spellcasting assistance...but as the equivalent of a low level fighter now...V had best find some friends to run with...a lone wizard is a target.

[BisectedBrioche]

V has no spells left so it wouldn't work.

V could still find a scroll....

[dehro]

yah...but I don't se how s/he could also find a punchline for such a situation... (there's got to be one, methinks, for comedic effect)..

I rather think she could sneak on redcloak and snatch the phylact...thingamajaber thingo... from his neck..plenty of punchlines for such a neat feat:smalltongue:

I don't know about 3rd edition rules..but a mage with a longsword?:smallconfused:

[jindra34]

I don't know about 3rd edition rules..but a mage with a longsword?:smallconfused:

3.5 elves are auto-magically proficient with longswords...

[Twilight Jack]

I'm loving the scroll-bandolier image, but I think that Vaarsuvius' best course of action right now would be to get into the throne room and shatter the gate while Xykon and Redcloak are tied up with the ghost martyrs/Hinjo and the Order once they get there. Xykon and Redcloak both have their hands full at the moment and I don't think either is going to be wasting a round to randomly cast See Invisibility until it's too late.

[Quikngruvn]

I'm loving the scroll-bandolier image, but I think that Vaarsuvius' best course of action right now would be to get into the throne room and shatter the gate while Xykon and Redcloak are tied up with the ghost martyrs/Hinjo and the Order once they get there. Xykon and Redcloak both have their hands full at the moment and I don't think either is going to be wasting a round to randomly cast See Invisibility until it's too late.

As an undead, wouldn't Xykon already be able to See Invisible? (Maybe it's just me misremembering. The SRD doesn't seem to give undead or liches any specified immunity to Glamer-type Illusions.)

[Twilight Jack]

As an undead, wouldn't Xykon already be able to See Invisible? (Maybe it's just me misremembering. The SRD doesn't seem to give undead or liches any specified immunity to Glamer-type Illusions.)

Nope, just the mind-affecting type. Glamers are still good eats.

[Setra]

I'm loving the scroll-bandolier image, but I think that Vaarsuvius' best course of action right now would be to get into the throne room and shatter the gate while Xykon and Redcloak are tied up with the ghost martyrs/Hinjo and the Order once they get there. Xykon and Redcloak both have their hands full at the moment and I don't think either is going to be wasting a round to randomly cast See Invisibility until it's too late.
I wonder if V even COULD shatter it.

Certainly not with magic (as he has no spells left)... and it might be kinda hard... maybe not.

[Twilight Jack]

I wonder if V even COULD shatter it.

Certainly not with magic (as he has no spells left)... and it might be kinda hard... maybe not.

That's what ball-peen hammers are for. :smallwink:

[Grasilich]

I think that Vaarsuvius' best course of action right now would be to get into the throne room and shatter the gate while Xykon and Redcloak are tied up with the ghost martyrs/Hinjo and the Order once they get there. Xykon and Redcloak both have their hands full at the moment and I don't think either is going to be wasting a round to randomly cast See Invisibility until it's too late.

Other than the fact that the palace is packed full of a Hobgoblins now, I don't think that's something V would do. I hate to go back to alignment discussions, but V is True Neutral, not Lawful Good. In other words V is interested in... you know... staying alive. And sneaking into a throne room and smashing a Lich's prize when you have no spells left of any sort and no way to escape isn't really the best move for one who makes self-preservation a priority.

[Setra]

Other than the fact that the palace is packed full of a Hobgoblins now, I don't think that's something V would do. I hate to go back to alignment discussions, but V is True Neutral, not Lawful Good. In other words V is interested in... you know... staying alive. And sneaking into a throne room and smashing a Lich's prize when you have no spells left of any sort and no way to escape isn't really the best move for one who makes self-preservation a priority.
It's never been proven V is True Neutral, if I remember correctly.

Also, ya know, if Xykon gets the gate, it kind of ruins the whole "staying alive" thing regardless.

[Twilight Jack]

Also, ya know, if Xykon gets the gate, it kind of ruins the whole "staying alive" thing regardless.

Just what I was about to say. V risked life and limb defending Azure City. A vested interest must exist to ensure that Xykon does not achieve his aim, at least not before V learns everything there is to know about the Snarl and the gates so as to beat Xykon to the punch. :smallwink:

[David Argall]

It's never been proven V is True Neutral, if I remember correctly.


I seem to recall a strip where the party mostly declared its alignment, but I can't find it. I was under the impression V is CG, the generic for elf.

[Aquillion]

I seem to recall a strip where the party mostly declared its alignment, but I can't find it. I was under the impression V is CG, the generic for elf.Not to restart alignment threads here, but the general gist of what most people seem to say is that V's (apparently) serious suggestion that they bind the Linear Guild's souls despite it being an evil act would preclude a good alignment. There are other examples, but that's about as close as you can get to saying "I have a neutral alignment" without saying it outright.

[mockingbyrd7]

V is probably hiding somewhere while he rests.

Or looting some scrolls.

I would be awesome the the Order was getting beaten up and suddenly V appeared wearing scrolls in bandoleers.

OF COURSE! I'll bet you that happens! Literally, bandoliers! I can see it now... :P

[Vondre]

I have one hyperlink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/transformation.htm).

I like that idea. Who says there's not a scroll of Transformation in the library somewhere? V could very easily have the potion reagent from his trip to the doomed potion shop earlier.

I like the scroll-bandolier idea as well. My vision for the perfect entrance for V incolves him entering with a sword and casting that spell. When it wears off, he can still use his scrolls to blast Redcloak and Xykon.

Of course, his level may be too low to do much damage... but it would still be pretty cool.

[Lloyd]

V is probably hiding somewhere while he rests.

Or looting some scrolls.

I would be awesome the the Order was getting beaten up and suddenly V appeared wearing scrolls in bandoleers.

I just had this picture of V appearing as the party is about to get slaughtered, dressed in camouflage (would camouflage for AC be blue?), dual bandoleers full of scrolls,a sword on his/her back and a wand in hand, raining destruction down on anything that even remotely resembles a hobgoblin or a lich.

Not gonna happen, but it would be awesome to see, no?

[Lolzords]

For 1d4-1 damage? I dunno, the Giant's a pretty big stickler for the rules. It would have to be on someone really, really, really wounded to help. Even a hobbo could survive that. Or hell, a regular goblin.

Even less, 1d3-1 damage, V can only do 1-2 damage, 2-4 on a crit. As you said, not going to help much.

I see V just buggering off at full speed to hide or find some scrolls.