Stealing undead?

[he-man diceroll]

I am running a campaign with an evil cleric who is massing undead, and I want to mess with him/them, but just killing them off over and over is monotonous, boring and would start to get agrevating:smallfurious: if I was in his position. so I'm trying to find more exotic ways of messing with him. the group is about to run into another necromancer, and I was wondering if there are rules for him(the necromancer) trying to fight my player for control over the undead he has so far. cant find anythinig for or against it, but granted the only books I have that I have checked is the player's manuals and dmg's (figured if it was anywhere it would be in those somewhere, lol)

[WalkingTheShade]

This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlUndead.htm) might do the trick. If the NPC can't cast level 7 spells, just give them a wand with a couple charges or a scroll.
Also, commanding undead that way (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) is legit.

[Fouredged Sword]

Mindless undead are easy to steal using the spell command undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm).

It lasts days per level and is only a level 2 spell. Chaining it with a rod steals a whole group of undead for an extended period. A wand can rapidly turn 50 units on their controller.

[Segev]

Any form of "I take control of these undead" powers - from command undead to Rebuking (as popular methods of wizards and clerics, respectively - can work. I believe the general rule when two casters' control effects conflict is to roll opposed caster level checks.

When it comes to intelligent undead, however, I would argue that an absolute control effect (such as Rebuke or control undead) will trump command undead, which is merely effectively a charm effect. It doesn't matter if the ghasts like you a lot if they're being compelled, anyway.

That said, command undead does provide a "will not attack the caster" clause, which probably ALSO trumps, since it doesn't preclude the "winning" controller doing anything else.


Therefore, case command undead and, even if you lose the CL check, he still can't order them to attack you. Use it also to prevent more firmly-controlled minions (e.g. a cleric's Rebuked slaves) from attacking you, as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

Any form of "I take control of these undead" powers - from command undead to Rebuking (as popular methods of wizards and clerics, respectively - can work. I believe the general rule when two casters' control effects conflict is to roll opposed caster level checks.

When it comes to intelligent undead, however, I would argue that an absolute control effect (such as Rebuke or control undead) will trump command undead, which is merely effectively a charm effect. It doesn't matter if the ghasts like you a lot if they're being compelled, anyway.

That said, command undead does provide a "will not attack the caster" clause, which probably ALSO trumps, since it doesn't preclude the "winning" controller doing anything else.


Therefore, case command undead and, even if you lose the CL check, he still can't order them to attack you. Use it also to prevent more firmly-controlled minions (e.g. a cleric's Rebuked slaves) from attacking you, as well.

Control undead trumps rebuke and native control without an opposed check unless I am mistaken. I see no reference to it in the spell.

[Segev]

Control undead trumps rebuke and native control without an opposed check unless I am mistaken. I see no reference to it in the spell.

Without a specific note in the spell, it wouldn't trump Rebuke inherently any more than Rebuke inherently trumps it. Both specify they provide control. So it'd come down to an opposed CL check.

[Rift_Wolf]

Clarification request; is the Necromancer in question a wizard (spec: Necromancy), an evil cleric with associate domains, a Sorcerer, or the rare but possible Bard-prestige-class-combo?