An argument (and plan) for kobold PCs

[Alarius]

I've always been fond of playing kobold characters, but they tend to be hard to include in a story. My argument to my GMs has always been in their description in the 3.X Monster Manuals. To paraphrase, they are always lawful, USUALLY evil; and they generally are more defined by there lawful nature more than there evil nature. So I've had to roll kobolds with circumstances that prevented them from maturing in regular kobold society. Personally, I believe the evil aspect is a product of oppression.

Their homes are constantly ransacked by low level adventurers, not trusted by other races. Of course they're going to end up being xenophobic. It's not the kobolds that are evil, but society. We can change the perception of kobolds by changing society, and as I'm about to try my hand at serious GMing I can do just that.

Here's the idea:

A small, but fundamental change to the racial features of kobolds.

Kobolds are dragonkin. There are many colors of dragon, most dragonkin also come in many colors, but we only have one type of kobold. Why not have various colors of kobold. Various kobold clans will have affinity for a dragon type and tend towards the eccentricities of that type. So there will be black kobolds, copper kobolds, gold kobolds, etc. There scales will be tinted towards the dragon type they have affinity for (still with a strong tendency towards lawful, because kobolds lawful tendency is from clan rules and traditions.)

Also, as far as lore is concerned, I'm go to create a female kobold deity (name to be determined, suggestions welcome) and say that Kurtulmak amd this female deity are the "Mother and Father gods" of kobolds. Kurtulmak served Tiamat, while the other served Bahamut. So both good and evil Kobolds will have a patron god.

[LibraryOgre]

Considering their obsessive hatred of gnomes and penchant for sapiophagy, I don't know if I agree with "defined by their lawful nature, not their evil nature" is remotely accurate.

[Geddy2112]

Pathfinder kobolds do a decent job of this-there are feats and alt race features to be different colors.

I would not argue that kobolds are irredeemably evil, they are just more prone to evil and less bothered by doing things that are generally "evil"

but I would still think there are kobolds of every alignment.

[FlumphPaladin]

The way I see it, kobolds being defined as "always lawful, usually evil" combines with their xenophobia to paint a picture of a well-ordered, perhaps even safe and liberal, society... as long as you're a kobold. The evil stems from the fact that they don't see other sapients as deserving of kobold rights--they're basically just huge racists. Kobold PC's would likely be the more enlightened ones, who are willing to cooperate with other races, and who see the equality of the other races to their own.

Perhaps some upheaval might be coming wherein some kobolds are starting to recognize this in their society.

[Red Fel]

To paraphrase, they are always lawful, USUALLY evil; and they generally are more defined by there lawful nature more than there evil nature.

"Always lawful, usually evil?" Say what (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm)? According to their SRD entry, they're "usually lawful evil." And let's be honest, Kobolds being "usually lawful evil" is like Drow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#drow) being "usually neutral evil," which is to say you're more likely to find one of that alignment than not, right up until every single Drow is a noble surface-dwelling rebel who escaped from a society that doesn't accept them. Blah blah, Succubus Paladin, blah blah.


So I've had to roll kobolds with circumstances that prevented them from maturing in regular kobold society. Personally, I believe the evil aspect is a product of oppression.

This is actually a fair point. Let's review Kobold society. (Which was done in great detail in Races of the Dragon, but not all of us are playing 3.5.)

Kobolds are the bees of the D&D world. Small, belligerent, noisy in numbers, and very squishable. They have complex social structures in part because they're basically the lowest sapient lifeform on the food chain. So they tend to be hierarchical, xenophobic, and structured out of need. That's fine, that explains a general Lawful tendency.

What about Evil? Well, xenophobia is Evil. Of course, when pretty much everything can kill you - and does - you tend to be violently afraid of everything, so that explains some of that away. But let's look at their role models.

I'm speaking, of course, about Dragons. Kobolds love the crap out of Dragons. They find a Dragon and just hang onto that bad boy like an uncomfortably literal metaphor. They toil, kill, and generally die for the Dragon. And the Dragons who like that tend to be Evil. So when your single near-divine authority for all things turns out to be a murderous jerkwad, it stands to reason that you'll turn out somewhere south of moral.

Let's also look at their deity. It's a fairly longstanding tradition that Kobold religion puts them directly at odds with Gnomes, like an adorable miniature re-enactment of the Elf-Orc conflict. Only more annoying. Thing is, as a general rule, Gnomes are the Good Guys. I mean, I saw that cartoon when I was a kid, with the doctor played by Tom Bosley, those guys are freaking adorable. So if you're against them, you must be Evil, right?

So, yeah. A lot of environmental influences would steer them towards Evil. But here's the thing, and it comes up in any alignment debate concerning racial alignment tendencies.

Unless you are some sort of cosmic being formed from the essence of alignment, you have freedom to choose. There is nothing stopping any mortal creature from going against whatever "tendencies" it may have.

In other words, go play a Kobold Paladin and laugh it up.

[Honest Tiefling]

If you're making up gods, I'm inclined to believe you are playing in your own setting. In which case, why bother having the same Kobolds as (presumably) Greyhawk? If you want everything to be like Greyhawk, go play Greyhawk. To me, the idea of having a race that isn't your standard pinkish-brownish fleshy thing could be quite interesting. The lore of the dragons could add quite a lot to them, especially if it is highly debated among certain races and has a degree of uncertainty to it.

Does anyone in your group really care about the established fluff? Is it a part of their setting? Or are you playing a established setting? If not...Why not propose a change?

[DigoDragon]

Kobolds are the bees of the D&D world.

What do you mean? African or European? :smallbiggrin:


The one time I played a kobold, I actually stole the premise to the original Fallout video game for my backstory-- His home was hit by a gnome raiding party and they destroyed an important magic item that was purifying the water supply (it was otherwise too sulfuric to drink). The clergy could only cast so much Purify Food & Drink spells and it wasn't enough to feed everyone, so my kobold was drafted to go out into the human lands and find another such magic item. The reason he was sent was because he had the least xenophobic tendencies of anyone else in his town, thus he'd likely have the best chances of getting along with outsiders to accomplish his goal. His alignment was mostly Lawful Neutral if I remember. I say mostly because the GM of that old game didn't enforce alignments much. But the backstory was well enough to explain why my kobold wasn't an evil murdering type. Well, no more than the other adventures. :smallwink:

[Tiktik Ironclaw]

This is why I just made Kurtulmak Lawful Neutral in my homebrew setting, and let the moral part of the alignment scale be up to the kobolds in question.
I also allow both chromatic and metallic dragons to be whatever alignment they wish, which means that I had to relocate Tiamat and Bahamut on the alignment scale.

[Telok]

Funny, every time someone ask to play a kobold in my games I hand them the AD&D loose leaf MM sheet on kobolds and they change their minds. I think they really want to play a small dragon or dragon-man and see the late 3.5 changes to kobolds as the way to accomplish that.

[LibraryOgre]

What do you mean? African or European? :smallbiggrin:


Africanized, really. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee)

Kobolds are cowardly, xenophobic sapiophages bent on conquering the world.


The conquest of land is the ultimate goal of all kobold tribes. They rejoice in stripping a land of its resources, and they love to accumulate power. As they have a deep hatred of all other life, they find great delight in killing.


These humanoids set out from their territories to forage for plants, hunt for meat, and to waylay humans and demihumans. They capture victims to use as food or to sell into slavery...

Poor, misunderstood slavers. They only want to use you as forced labor until you're chewy.

[Kane0]

"Don't give me that look, i'm just a small dragonborn! Like you people and your halflings."

[goto124]

'Was your ma or pa the dragon?'

'Was your ma or pa the gnome?'

[Zalphon]

"Always lawful, usually evil?" Say what (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm)? According to their SRD entry, they're "usually lawful evil." And let's be honest, Kobolds being "usually lawful evil" is like Drow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#drow) being "usually neutral evil," which is to say you're more likely to find one of that alignment than not, right up until every single Drow is a noble surface-dwelling rebel who escaped from a society that doesn't accept them. Blah blah, Succubus Paladin, blah blah.



This is actually a fair point. Let's review Kobold society. (Which was done in great detail in Races of the Dragon, but not all of us are playing 3.5.)

Kobolds are the bees of the D&D world. Small, belligerent, noisy in numbers, and very squishable. They have complex social structures in part because they're basically the lowest sapient lifeform on the food chain. So they tend to be hierarchical, xenophobic, and structured out of need. That's fine, that explains a general Lawful tendency.

What about Evil? Well, xenophobia is Evil. Of course, when pretty much everything can kill you - and does - you tend to be violently afraid of everything, so that explains some of that away. But let's look at their role models.

I'm speaking, of course, about Dragons. Kobolds love the crap out of Dragons. They find a Dragon and just hang onto that bad boy like an uncomfortably literal metaphor. They toil, kill, and generally die for the Dragon. And the Dragons who like that tend to be Evil. So when your single near-divine authority for all things turns out to be a murderous jerkwad, it stands to reason that you'll turn out somewhere south of moral.

Let's also look at their deity. It's a fairly longstanding tradition that Kobold religion puts them directly at odds with Gnomes, like an adorable miniature re-enactment of the Elf-Orc conflict. Only more annoying. Thing is, as a general rule, Gnomes are the Good Guys. I mean, I saw that cartoon when I was a kid, with the doctor played by Tom Bosley, those guys are freaking adorable. So if you're against them, you must be Evil, right?

So, yeah. A lot of environmental influences would steer them towards Evil. But here's the thing, and it comes up in any alignment debate concerning racial alignment tendencies.

Unless you are some sort of cosmic being formed from the essence of alignment, you have freedom to choose. There is nothing stopping any mortal creature from going against whatever "tendencies" it may have.

In other words, go play a Kobold Paladin and laugh it up.

I quote Fel, not only because he is incredibly precise on what he's talking about, but because of the last line. "...go play a Kobold Paladin and laugh it up."

I have done this.

And he was a hit.

Try it out. Nobody ever expects a Kobold PC to be a hero. They expect a sniveling rogue or sneaky sorcerer. Their jaws (and the village peoples') will drop when the savior of the village was a Kobold.

[Traab]

'Was your ma or pa the dragon?'

'Was your ma or pa the gnome?'

Im just gonna leave this (http://wtfcomics.com/archive.html?466_127) here. Its old everquest lore.

[Deophaun]

Thing is, as a general rule, Gnomes are the Good Guys.
Fun story: Gygax was originally going to model gnomes as an accurate reflection of their portrayal in folklore. But then he ran out of butter to offer them. Just as they had finished tying him up and were about to set fire to his Wisconsin abode, he made a deal: he would tell everyone they were actually good guys if they would be oh so kind and not burn him alive (and he'd give them ten times the butter next week).

In summary: killing gnomes is usually good.

[Red Fel]

I quote Fel, not only because he is incredibly precise on what he's talking about, but because of the last line. "...go play a Kobold Paladin and laugh it up."

I have done this.

And he was a hit.

Try it out. Nobody ever expects a Kobold PC to be a hero. They expect a sniveling rogue or sneaky sorcerer. Their jaws (and the village peoples') will drop when the savior of the village was a Kobold.

Truth. I was being totally serious when I said Kobold Paladin. I was in a fan-freaking-tastic one shot where one of the players played a Kobold Barbarian. The GM homebrewed a feat that was the equivalent of the Goliath's Mountain Rage (basically, treat him as Medium while Raging), and he was amazing. Of course, that was also the campaign that featured a Blue Goblin version of Dr. Reducto, and a Gnome Cleric of No Particular Deity in Particular, But Boy Oh Boy Will He Tell You About It.


In summary: killing gnomes is usually good.

You're thinking Kender again.

[Deophaun]

You're thinking Kender again.
It wasn't kender that replaced my worn-out shoes and then broke my kneecaps when I couldn't repay them in dairy goods the next day.

Why'd they think I wanted a hundred pairs of shoes? Who needs that many? But when the gnome mafia does you a "favor," need doesn't enter into it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

...

Here's the idea:

A small, but fundamental change to the racial features of kobolds.

Kobolds are dragonkin. There are many colors of dragon, most dragonkin also come in many colors, but we only have one type of kobold. Why not have various colors of kobold. Various kobold clans will have affinity for a dragon type and tend towards the eccentricities of that type. So there will be black kobolds, copper kobolds, gold kobolds, etc. There scales will be tinted towards the dragon type they have affinity for (still with a strong tendency towards lawful, because kobolds lawful tendency is from clan rules and traditions.)

...
Seems reasonable. According to (I think) Races of the Dragon, the first kobolds were created from dragon's blood by some sort of ritual. It's plausible that (for instance) green and black dragons might have swapped kobolds or white kobolds fled to silver dragons when their master died, leading to cross-contamination, but having different colors of kobolds makes sense.



Also, as far as lore is concerned, I'm go to create a female kobold deity (name to be determined, suggestions welcome) and say that Kurtulmak amd this female deity are the "Mother and Father gods" of kobolds. Kurtulmak served Tiamat, while the other served Bahamut. So both good and evil Kobolds will have a patron god.
The first kobolds, at least, were the servants of dragons. I'm not sure why they'd need their own deities if they have dragons, and I don't see why any deities which rose would be worshiped by all koboldkind if they're so fragmented.

I suppose one question you'll have to answer is how many kobolds still serve dragons, and the size of any kobold tribes/nations. If there are large numbers of kobold refugees and their descendants cluttering the Underdark, they might well have their own cultures.
Perhaps Chief Kurkulmak of one of the largest dragon-independent tribes encountered gnomes, which lead to his death and the enmity between gnomes and that tribe of kobolds—but gnomes and their allies didn't realize that it was only that one tribe of kobolds, leading to that tribe being at war with the gnomes and the others convinced that the furry surface races were irredeemable xenophobes. Hm...

[FlumphPaladin]

in summary: Killing gnomes is usually good.

Gno gnomes!!!

[Joe the Rat]

"Don't give me that look, i'm just a small dragonborn! Like you people and your halflings."

Bah. Humans are just Dire Halflings.

I've made no bones about my love of kobolds. Played them since Dragon #141 - the days before the whole mini-dragonoid business was codified - or there were official rules. I find them adorable in the violent psychotic way people love those bobble-head Pathfinder goblins, only with less self-destructive idiocy. I suppose it's the story appeal. In terms of the dungeon stock pecking order, they're near the bottom of the heap - just above giant centipedes. They're a monster race, meaning they are expected to lose. They are the ultimate underdog(-like scaly humanoid)s. Now on the DM side, you can use them smartly and effectively to be an absolute terror (cf Kobolds, Tucker's). But on the player side? You get all the benefits of being an underweight gnome (small, nimble, digger, good with hands, small animal fetish) with all the drawbacks of a drow (blinded by the light, everybody hates you). That's a gaming challenge. Go for it.

Now, making up your own worlds, you can come up with your own rules and rationales, but assuming you are sticking to Fantasy ISO 9001 Compliant Kobold lore:

Before we get into the whole "make it work lore-wise" thing, there's the issue of working on the Game side. What's your role - in the party, in the story, and among the players? While cowardly and incompetent is funny in a story, It's not so much fun for everyone else to be around. You should be competent at something, even if that something is not your stated vocation. You declare yourself a mighty warrior, but have the best hands for locks and traps in the party. Your knowledge of magic and lore is far exceeded by your ego, but thanks to not actually being a wizard, you're actually a capable caster. I've found the best way to go small and abnormal is to go sidekick. You may have a wacky wayside-quest all about you, but your densely packed awesomeness is best served as a quirky secondary character in story. Keep it fun and different, get some good lines in, but don't keep the spotlight. Don't be Movie Legolas (never go Full Legolas). Be Pippin, or better yet, Movie Gimli - Short, Butt-Monkey, Funny Voice, memorable in an entertaining way, but still quite useful.

Seriously, their whole thing is working together. What are you doing by yourself? Did they all get killed? Did you get separated in a migration? Did the elders receive a sign that you would bring death and destruction to the tribe, and kick you out? Are you atypically non-evil, or non-lawful, and decided you'd be happier without the others (in other words, totally insane)? Are you a reincarnated/polymorphed member of another species? Are you a foundling? Did you get press-ganged with a bunch of other humanoids into use as cheap expendable labor, kill your overseer with a rock and escape, and get mentored by an eccentric half-elf rogue after you tried to pick his pocket? Or maybe your tribe attached its collective lips to the rear end of a Good Dragon, who is trying to make them less "Evil," and you are sent out as one of his agents.

What on earth would drive you to seek your fortune on the surface, in the accursed light of the daystar, with these large, smelly, rumble-voiced pinkish things as opposed to more appropriate companions (such as large, smelly, rumble-voiced yellowish or greenish things, or better yet, something scaly)? Admittedly, once you get past the violent xenophobia displayed by most surface dwellers, they're actually surprisingly easy to work with. Even with their wild differences in heritage and cosmological inclinations, they work together well, coming to one another's aid (at least for those among them that are equal partners rather than hirelings). So how did you come to hang out with them? Encountered on the road? Picked up as a pet? Picked up as a henchman and worked your way up the ladder? Sanctioned member of a guild, and as such afforded certain privileges?

Of course, in a more morally ambiguous game, you may be the least vile species present.

How do you deal with Gnomes? Elves and Dwarves can be in the same party. Elves and Half-Orcs can be in the same party. Clerics of Justice and unrepentant criminals can be in the same party. Evil and non-Evil can be in the same party. It's all about having a group (of players) that wants to make it work. So why aren't you killing all the gnomes? Well, there's the obvious you against the world factor, and you ain't no Kratos. You may want to kill them, but you need to bide your time, until you are in position to do so effectively, rather than go out in a blaze of impotent rage. Depending on your background, you may not see gnomes as the vicious little vile unrepentant pranksters that they are (and how do the rest of the smelly pinkish things not notice this?), but as yet another race you don't have to look up to... literally. Maybe you're in the party with one (horrors!), but are on your best behavior due to not wanting to get killed by everyone else.

Why isn't the gnome killing you? He's Good. He's not supposed to kill creatures based on the texture of their hides. He's not good, you say? Maybe he's an outcast as much as you, and you make a wonderful ebony and ivory (or crimson and clover) duo. Or maybe the party is watching him as much as you - particularly if he started it. Pro Tip: Let the Gnome start it. His people are chaotic pranksters. Your people are planning trap-makers. You see where this is going? If you want to play a kobold, you should.

There are no Kobolds on Krynn. But if there were, they'd hate the Kender as much as everyone else.

[FlumphPaladin]

Or maybe your tribe attached its collective lips to the rear end of a Good Dragon, who is trying to make them less "Evil," and you are sent out as one of his agents.

I made this exact character as a pregen for a game that never materialized. He's one of the most driven characters I've created, and like all of those characters, Zassogh the itinerant kobold sorcerer has never seen the light of play.

One day, buddy, one day... (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-G0ADlk4_qmaHhYTG9JMlJVR0E/view?usp=sharing)

[wumpus]

Considering their obsessive hatred of gnomes and penchant for sapiophagy, I don't know if I agree with "defined by their lawful nature, not their evil nature" is remotely accurate.

I didn't think that levels of hate beyond that of a kobold for non-kobolds existed.

DDO kobold catchphrases: http://soundboards.cubicleninja.com/
(DDO is set in Eberron which uses kobolds as the major newbie fodder (where forgotten realms would use goblins). The kobold voices used started with an anniversary event and evolved further. Think of using kobolds in a "lemming" playstyle level in a first-person game and you have an idea what the kobold-based challenges are like.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I've made no bones about my love of kobolds.
glances at avatar
Yup, checks out.


What's Your Role?
This isn't much different for kobolds than for other characters, and most of the differences are due to vocations like "diplomat" and "meat-shield" being mostly off-limits.


Why are You not with Your Tribe?
This should probably come first. I mean, I guess not being a hindrance to the party is most important, but you can figure that out from basically any reason for exodus.
You do come up with some good ideas, though.


Why are You Hanging Out with "Adventurers?"
This should be easier for kobolds than most, if they have a good reason to flee the mountainhomes.


Of course, in a more morally ambiguous game, you may be the least vile species present.
FTFY. Players who aren't thinking through their character motivations tend to play characters as vile (or even moreso) than those trying to play quasi-villainous ones.


The Gnome Question
Recommended reading, (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html) specifically the second half.


Pro Tip: Let the Gnome start it. His people are chaotic pranksters. Your people are planning trap-makers. You see where this is going? If you want to play a kobold, you should.
I like the way you think.

[Traab]

Fun story: Gygax was originally going to model gnomes as an accurate reflection of their portrayal in folklore. But then he ran out of butter to offer them. Just as they had finished tying him up and were about to set fire to his Wisconsin abode, he made a deal: he would tell everyone they were actually good guys if they would be oh so kind and not burn him alive (and he'd give them ten times the butter next week).

In summary: killing gnomes is usually good.

So, im reading this story, its by Larry Correia called Vendetta, its the second book in a series where this guy joins a group of monster hunters. In it they meet up with a bunch of gnomes, fresh outta compton style gnomes. Im talking thug life, tattoos, cerberus hounds instead of pitbulls, yo homey talking gangsta gnomes. Its hilarious and awesome and badass all at the same time. They dont much trust tall people, and if you call them garden gnomes, expect a beat down, because pound for pound, they are a lot stronger than you would think. I think the main gnome they deal with is called G-nome. (pronounced genome)

[GloatingSwine]

Also, as far as lore is concerned, I'm go to create a female kobold deity (name to be determined, suggestions welcome) and say that Kurtulmak amd this female deity are the "Mother and Father gods" of kobolds. Kurtulmak served Tiamat, while the other served Bahamut. So both good and evil Kobolds will have a patron god.

Actually, you maybe don't need to bother with this.

Y'see, Kurtulmak is the god of Kobolds and all, but it doesn't matter because he's not societally important.

Dragons are what's societally important. Kobolds attach themselves to a dragon and model their societies around the tendencies and priorities of that dragon, for the first generation it might only have been an act to gain favour, but as generations grow up who have never known anything else it becomes the genuine social imperative of the society.

So you can have a society of Kobolds that formed around a Brass dragon who have a society with extreme ritualised social pleasantries and a strong focus on diplomacy, where bards, poets and other similar entertainers are highly valued, or one which formed around a Red dragon who bear more resemblance to a crime family, permanently trying to balance their own personal avarice with their desire to provide the best tribute and thus advancement, and who tend towards producing rogues.

[Inevitability]

I'd say kobold groups tend to vary wildly in alignment, actually, though with a few natural/cultural inclinations to Law and Evil.

Remember; most kobolds really want to find a dragon to frolic with and be protected by. It doesn't matter too much whether this dragon is Evil, Lawful, Chaotic, or Good.

Now imagine a group of kobolds finding a gold dragon hatchling. The hatchling will probably not be okay with the kobolds catching gnomes and feeding those to it, so it tells them not to do so anymore. Next, the hatchling informs the kobolds that robbing innocent humans is actually pretty evil, so they can't do that anymore either. After enough time, the kobolds will slowly become more Good.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Come to think of it...why are kobolds listed as "usually lawful evil"? I can understand chaotic dragons not recruiting/creating as many kobolds, or driving them off more readily, but why are almost all kobolds associated with evil dragons? Has there ever been an adventure, sourcebook, or whatnot where a kobold tribe formed around a metallic dragon?

[Traab]

Come to think of it...why are kobolds listed as "usually lawful evil"? I can understand chaotic dragons not recruiting/creating as many kobolds, or driving them off more readily, but why are almost all kobolds associated with evil dragons? Has there ever been an adventure, sourcebook, or whatnot where a kobold tribe formed around a metallic dragon?

Probably because its easier to justify an evil dragon accepting an entire tribe of servants/slaves. I mean, you could justify a good dragon doing it too. Sort of a protection thing and in return the kobolds worship their ultra powerful benefactor and bring him/her gifts and such, but yeah, its easier to just say, "Yep, lawful evil dragon likes being waited on hand and foot so he doesnt have to do anything but tell his minions what to do."

[Telok]

Come to think of it...why are kobolds listed as "usually lawful evil"? I can understand chaotic dragons not recruiting/creating as many kobolds, or driving them off more readily, but why are almost all kobolds associated with evil dragons? Has there ever been an adventure, sourcebook, or whatnot where a kobold tribe formed around a metallic dragon?

Because kobolds started off as the chihuahua version of gnolls for low level adventurers to feel good about slaughtering when they were too weak to take on goblins like real adventurers.

The whole dragon thing started with a throw away fluff line in the 3.0 MM that said some tribes of kobolds thought they were really dragonkin. Since the whole thing is built off that one line and kobolds remained the same otherwise you get this dissonance between the whole trash monster vs. dragonkin thing that the developers don't do anything about because the new guys don't know or care where it started and the old guys were laid off.

[Nifft]

For me, the main problem with Kobold PCs is that there are too many gosh-darn PC races already.

I'd be fine with removing Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes -- and instead making a setting based around Humans, Tieflings, Dragonborn, Warforged, and Kobolds (for example), with the rare occasional Elan, Changelings, Dralasites, and some kind of small playable Fey.



Because kobolds started off as the chihuahua version of gnolls for low level adventurers

In 1e, Kobolds were hairless and vaguely reptilian (but with two horns). Not related to gnolls at all.

IIRC the gnoll was basically created whole-cloth to fill a slot in the disposable mook table at 2 HD.

[GreatWyrmGold]

... otherwise you get this dissonance between the whole trash monster vs. dragonkin thing...
Doesn't the word "dissonance" imply that the two concepts are incompatible, or at least opposed in some manner?