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Tyger
2007-06-01, 11:05 AM
Just cracking 8th level now, and have very limited gold, but am really hoping that will change in the very near future.

What items would you consider "essential" or even just downright important for a Wizard of this level to have? I have only one crafting feat (Craft Wondrous) in addition to my automatic Scribe Scroll, though the character may have access to an equal level artificer ally as well, so things are pretty open. At present, my magical equipment is limited to a Wand of Magic Missile (level 3) that we found, and numerous scrolls that I have scribed myself.

Don't worry about gold, but if the suggestions could be kept in the realm of normal (or even less) for the level, that would be great.

I ask as this is my first Wizard character. Usually just have to buy the best shield and armor I can get my hands on, and hope to find a magic sword!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

EDIT: Forgot to mention books available... probably anything goes, as the group I play with has a pretty decent library when combined all together.

Ulzgoroth
2007-06-01, 11:17 AM
For the completely uncomplicated, a headband of intellect +2 or (if you can afford) +4 is never amiss. Bonus spells and save DC increase good.

Boccob's Blessed Book is good, but probably a bit too expensive.

Handy Haversack is a good idea if you don't already have one. Not really class-dependent, but low strength makes it more important...

Aquaseafoam
2007-06-01, 11:17 AM
I personally like Heward's Fortifying bedroll from Complete Mage. The effects of 8 hours of rest in just 1 hour. You coud make it insanely cheaply with your Craft Wondrous Item Feat.

Saph
2007-06-01, 11:33 AM
How much time do you have? :P

My 9th-level wizard carries more magic items than the rest of the party put together, but she's a crafter character, has been building them up for years, and half the items are weird custom ones that would be of limited use to anyone else. However, assuming standard Wealth-by-Level, here's a starting list of good wondrous items you can craft by the time your wizard's level 8. Every item listed below is 4,000 gold or under.

First, the essentials:

• Headband of Intellect +2 (this is a no-brainer).
• Amulet of Health +2 (really helps keep you alive).
• Gloves of Dexterity +2 (less use if you don't go in for ranged touch attacks, but +1 to AC, Reflex, and Initiative is always nice).
• Cloak of Resistance +2.

That covers spells and survival, which are your main priorities. From this point on, you can start going in for the fun stuff.

• Heward's Handy Haversack (unfortunately, you can't make this yourself, so you'll have to buy it, but it's cheap for 2000 gold).
• Travel Cloak (if you're playing in the Forgotten Realms - good item if you go on journeys a lot).
• Bag of Tricks (needs a druid to help make, but it's surprising how useful a throwaway animal can be).
• Tome of Worldly Memory (fun, cheap little item from the MIC, great if you like to be the group's brainbox).
• Talisman of the Disk (also from the MIC - gives you a floating suitcase, great for "take everything that's not nailed down" style adventures).
• Healing Belt (MIC, again - requires someone who can cast cure moderate wounds, but you probably have a person who can do that, right?)
• Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (MIC yet again. +5 on Concentration, always useful).

And finally, the big one:

• Blessed Book. At 12,500 gold (or 6,250 gold and 500 XP if you make it yourself) this is a big purchase, and in the short term it'll give you a net loss in terms of character wealth. In the long term, however, it'll end up saving you lots and lots of money as you keep adding more and more expensive spells to your spellbook.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, though I'm sure there's much more - this isn't covering scrolls and staffs and wands and things.

- Saph

Telonius
2007-06-01, 11:54 AM
• Talisman of the Disk (also from the MIC - gives you a floating suitcase, great for "take everything that's not nailed down" style adventures).


... How did I miss this one? The Luggage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Luggage) is actually a regulation D&D magic item now? :smallbiggrin: Score!

Tyger
2007-06-01, 12:06 PM
OK, that headband is definitely on the list... forgot that it would increase my spell DC as well. Additional spells at a higher DC is always nice!

The Heward's Haversack is great, and I will certain craft one of those as soon as I get access to those level 5 spells! One more level.

The Fortifying Bedroll is nice, but that would just mean I'd get stuck on night watch more often. :) Our DM is notorius (as most are I think) for ambushing us late at night, and if I only needed one hour, it would be me that would most likely be awake all night. Granted, it would be really nice as an RP aide... spend all night scribbling in my notes, muttering under my breath and feed scraps of meat to the raven familiar... hmmm....

The Blessed Book. Dang! Never even thought of one of these, and this character is pretty obsessive about learning more spells. That 6,250 will pay for itself in no time at all. I think this one is going to come right after that headband. And then use Secret Page to make it look like its full of accounting information, or a diary... nice. Love this!

Cloaks of Resistance are out though. I have Greater Resistance in my spellbook, so I get this for free daily. WOuld be nice not to have to worry about Dispels though... Hmmm...

Not too worried either about stat boosting (other than Intelligence obviously) as the 17 Con and 16 Dex take care of most of the worries, and I only have a few ranged touch spells at the moment. Mostly focusing on battlefield control.

What are people's thoughts on multiple Pearls of Power? For the low, low cost, they seem pretty effective.

Saph
2007-06-01, 12:14 PM
Cloaks of Resistance are out though. I have Greater Resistance in my spellbook, so I get this for free daily. WOuld be nice not to have to worry about Dispels though... Hmmm...

Yeah, Greater Resistance is actually what I use, too. :) Not everyone likes to devote a 4th-level spell slot to it, though.

When you get the money, a Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell will double the duration of it (and it works on Superior Resistance as well), meaning that you can cast it the day before. That costs 11,000, though.


Not too worried either about stat boosting (other than Intelligence obviously) as the 17 Con and 16 Dex take care of most of the worries, and I only have a few ranged touch spells at the moment. Mostly focusing on battlefield control.

What are people's thoughts on multiple Pearls of Power? For the low, low cost, they seem pretty effective.

The level 1 ones are worth it, but I wouldn't get any of a higher level than that - they're just too expensive. You're better off spending the money on a more powerful Headband of Intellect and getting extra spells (and higher DCs) that way.

The Fortifying Bedroll is a nice item, but remember that it doesn't let you bypass the 8-hour recent casting limit. So if you get attacked at night and cast spells, you'll be missing those spell slots for the next day's preparation. Still worth it, though.

- Saph

Tyger
2007-06-01, 01:30 PM
When you get the money, a Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell will double the duration of it (and it works on Superior Resistance as well), meaning that you can cast it the day before. That costs 11,000, though.
- Saph

On the meta-magic rods note, is it worth it to take that feat? I am considering two more crafting feats throughout my career, and am waffling on them. The sheer cost of those rods makes me think that I really ought to consider Craft Rod as my higher level crafting feat.

Jack Mann
2007-06-01, 01:35 PM
Yes. Craft rod is the high-level crafting feat to take. While craft staff and forge ring are almost never worth it, the sheer gold you save with craft rod makes it a wise investment.

Person_Man
2007-06-01, 01:55 PM
In my opinion, every Wizard needs eight basic things:

1) A way to retreat quickly from any situation (Grapple, enemy with the Mageslayer feat, battlefield control spells) without generating AoOs, usually via Dimension Door or a similar spell or item.

2) High Saving Throws, and if you can afford it, a Ring of Evasion.

3) Protection from ranged attacks, usually via high AC and Gloves of Arrow Snaring or similar items.

4) Flight (spells, grafts, items)

5) Invisibility/Greater Invisibility

6) See Invisibility/True Sight

7) Dispel Magic/Greater Dispel Magic

8) High hit points (usually through high Con and Con boosting items)

Once you have these defensive fundamentals in place, you can pretty much do anything you want offensively with little fear of getting killed in combat. Many of these things can be accomplished with spells. But some of them are more efficiently done with items. Plus its annoying for a Wizard to use a spell slot to memorize something like True Sight and not use it for weeks, and then all of a sudden it becomes absolutely pivotal to win one combat. This is especially if your Wizard is in the habit of burning through all of your spell slots every game day. So you're often better off buying a magic item or a few scrolls.

I would also note that numerous cheap magic items tend to be more effective then one expensive magic item (Gloves +2, Amulet +2, Cloak +2, etc). Also be sure to check out the psionic items (many of which don't require psionic power points) and the Item Compendium, which is chock full of useful stuff.

Saph
2007-06-01, 01:59 PM
On the meta-magic rods note, is it worth it to take that feat? I am considering two more crafting feats throughout my career, and am waffling on them. The sheer cost of those rods makes me think that I really ought to consider Craft Rod as my higher level crafting feat.

Maybe.

The problem with Craft Rod is that every single metamagic rod has a crafting prerequisite of the metamagic feat the rod supplies. So if you want to make a Metamagic Rod of Extend, you need Extend Spell. If you want a Metamagic Rod of Quicken, you need Quicken Spell, and so on.

This makes Craft Rod a lot less attractive than Craft Wondrous Item, where one feat lets you make almost anything. With Craft Rod, you need to plan several levels ahead to make sure you'll have the metamagic feat you'll need.

Which does raise the question - if you have the metamagic feat already, do you really need it in a rod in the first place?

- Saph

Behold_the_Void
2007-06-01, 02:06 PM
Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt +1 is 4,000 for +5 AC and no Arcane spell failure. Mithral Buckler is 1,000 for +1 AC and no Arcane spell failure. Both further enchantable, and they can really help a wizard get his AC up.

Saph
2007-06-01, 02:09 PM
Mithral Twilight Chain Shirt +1 is 4,000 for +5 AC and no Arcane spell failure.

5,100, actually.

I prefer greater mage armour myself. +6 AC, 1 hour/level duration, and leaves your body slot open for one of those fun robes.

- Saph

Tyger
2007-06-01, 04:03 PM
5,100, actually.

I prefer greater mage armour myself. +6 AC, 1 hour/level duration, and leaves your body slot open for one of those fun robes.

- Saph

Looks like we think a lot alike. Greater Mage Armor is my second best friend. :) That said, not having a robe, and having access to mithril (long story why we don't have money but do have mithril) the chain shirt + buckler is something I am thinking about, especially because our DM houseruled shields to give x2 thier normal bonus to AC. So that mithril buckler gives 2 points, with no enchantment.

Good point on the Craft Rod though... might have to think about that. Though being able to spontaneously empower/maximize or otherwise boost up a spell without having to memorize it at higher level would be nice fairly regularly. Food for thought.

Morty
2007-06-01, 04:32 PM
In which book is the Twilight enchantment in? I'll check that out, I'm currently playing wizard too. I think nothing in RAW prevents me from wearing chain shirt under my robe.
But yeah, Mage Armor and its greater version are the best spells for wizard's AC. They're the only spells I miss in conjuration, but I miss them a lot.

LotharBot
2007-06-01, 04:44 PM
Check with your DM before you buy pearls of power.

In my game, you can use one pearl per spell slot maximum... so you can't, for example, use 20 level 1 pearls to duplicate the same level 1 spell 20 times. Other DM's might rule otherwise.

IMO they're worth buying at any level, but not until you have enough $ to go around...

Amiria
2007-06-01, 04:44 PM
In which book is the Twilight enchantment in? I'll check that out, I'm currently playing wizard too. I think nothing in RAW prevents me from wearing chain shirt under my robe.

Book of Exalted Deeds, allegedly also in the DMG2.

RAW prevents you from wearing magic armor and a magic robe at the same time. They share the same body slot.

Morty
2007-06-01, 04:48 PM
Book of Exalted Deeds, allegedly also in the DMG2.

RAW prevents you from wearing magic armor and a magic robe at the same time. They share the same body slot.

Dang. Exactly the books I don't have. As for armor/robe- well, even if I was to wear any armor, I don't think mundane robe over it would cause any problem. Because wizard without robe ain't wizard.
As for OP: If your DM allows custom items, amulets/rings that give bonus spells per level could be useful.

Sutremaine
2007-06-01, 05:41 PM
Book of Exalted Deeds, allegedly also in the DMG2.
PHBII, page 21.

Fat Daddy
2007-06-01, 06:09 PM
Headband of Intellect +2 (this is a no-brainer).


This made me laugh out loud.

Roland St. Jude
2007-06-01, 06:19 PM
First, the essentials:

• Headband of Intellect +2 (this is a mo'-brainer).


Fixed that for you. :smallwink:

PlatinumJester
2007-06-11, 01:32 PM
Uh. Instead of buying or creaing an item walk into a shop with disguise person on so you look like someone else. Then when the high level wizard leaves the shop with the weak minded commoner, walk in and use charm person on him. Tell him you need this stuff now but you'll return and pay him back later.

Tyger
2007-06-11, 02:04 PM
Uh. Instead of buying or creaing an item walk into a shop with disguise person on so you look like someone else. Then when the high level wizard leaves the shop with the weak minded commoner, walk in and use charm person on him. Tell him you need this stuff now but you'll return and pay him back later.


Might work well for a thief, or whatnot, but this particular character isn't going to go down that route.

Aquillion
2007-06-11, 03:45 PM
Uh. Instead of buying or creaing an item walk into a shop with disguise person on so you look like someone else. Then when the high level wizard leaves the shop with the weak minded commoner, walk in and use charm person on him. Tell him you need this stuff now but you'll return and pay him back later.Most DMs are probably going to tell you that people who sell expensive magical items can also afford expensive magical defenses, though. At the very least, the owner will have an item that grants true sight and some nasty wands for self-defense. Maybe a few golems or something, too, and some private security (mook guards are cheap, and could be a problem when the owner is throwing nasty debilitating spells at you via a wand.)

...and a commoner? The typical commoner would be lucky to see two gold pieces in a year. Are they really going to be spending several times their life savings on a magic hat or a rod of metamagic?

Basically, sure, you can steal magic items, but the heist itself is going to be a challenge of CR appropriate to the items you get. It actually makes sense that way in this case... if you have a million gold in magic items in your warehouse, you buy a million gold worth of defenses. If you're a nobleman buying an expensive item at a fancy shop, you bring at least that much protection with you. And so forth.

NamelessArchon
2007-06-11, 03:46 PM
That said, not having a robe, and having access to mithril (long story why we don't have money but do have mithril) the chain shirt + buckler is something I am thinking about, especially because our DM houseruled shields to give x2 thier normal bonus to AC. So that mithril buckler gives 2 points, with no enchantment.No harm in thinking about it - but do note that armor bonuses do not stack, so mage armor (or greater mage armor) wouldn't stack with the mithril armor - you'd only get the bonus from the greater of the two.

Assuming no missing proficiencies or other detriments, and assuming Greater Mage Armor to be a +6 Armor bonus:
Buckler: 1AC (Shield: 1, Armor: 0)
Greater Mage Armor: 6AC (Shield: 0, Armor: 6)
Buckler + Greater Mage Armor: 7AC (Shield: 1, Armor: 6)
Buckler + Full Plate + Mage Armor: 9AC (Shield: 1, Armor: 8)

Mithril Buckler + Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt is only 1 armor bonus less than Greater Mage Armor, so if you use both armor and spell with the shield you gain only 1AC. If you're going to use the spell anyway, toss the armor and keep the shield.

For high armor affairs, where AC really matters, I'd keep the mithril armor and slap up a shield spell instead. For high wizardry affairs, I'd toss the armor and get me a yummy robe instead, or consider that the enchantments on the armor are already restricted by use of the Twilight enchantment mentioned.

Besides, wizard without a robe? Nah...

Arbitrarity
2007-06-11, 04:05 PM
Actually, commoners make 3 gp a month. Unless they're smart and put ranks in a profession skill. In which case they make 30 gp a month. Yeah. I know.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-11, 04:16 PM
Might work well for a thief, or whatnot, but this particular character isn't going to go down that route.

Fly + Invisibilty + Mage Armour Greater + Sleep + Dispel Magic + Charm Person = perfect way to steal stuff and they are all 3rd level or less :smalltongue:

Tyger
2007-06-11, 06:28 PM
Yup, great ways to steal, if your character does that. Not happening here. Thanks though!

Aquillion
2007-06-11, 09:53 PM
Actually, commoners make 3 gp a month. Unless they're smart and put ranks in a profession skill. In which case they make 30 gp a month. Yeah. I know.Whoops. Well, in any case, they have to spend a lot of that on living expenses, and that's still nowhere near enough to buy anything interesting enough for a player to want to steal.

And the Fly + Invisibilty + Mage Armour Greater + Sleep + Dispel Magic + Charm Person trick has the same problem--anybody who has an item worth stealing is probably also going to invest in things like magic-resistant golem guards and so forth. Sure, you can steal things, but it's going to turn into an adventure involving challenges with CR approprate to the value of the item you want to steal.

skywalker
2007-06-12, 02:00 AM
Wait, if common meals are 3sp per day, then they aren't even paying for meals. Although I suppose most commoners are growing and cooking their own meals, I just don't get it.

More on topic, the Twilight Armor Enchantment is also in the aforementioned Magic Item Compendium, on page 15.

Callix
2007-06-12, 05:38 AM
Some problems with the whole heist idea:
Sleep: What merchant selling 10,000gp+ gear is going to be less than level 5?
Invisibility: Something in there is going to have either True Seeing, or the much simpler Alarm. If you want to be really paranoid, display cases could have a Dispel Magic trap targeted on the person opening. By using touch range, it doesn't matter how well protected you are.
Charm Person: Will saves anyone? 1st level spells, even with a +8DC (Up there) is still a 19, and experts (which this merchant would have to be) get good Will saves. Also, charm won't let a guard just stop guarding without one hell of a bluff check. Then, you're an outlaw. Have fun running from all forms of civilisation from now on.

Hopeless
2007-06-12, 06:06 AM
Just cracking 8th level now, and have very limited gold, but am really hoping that will change in the very near future.

What items would you consider "essential" or even just downright important for a Wizard of this level to have? I have only one crafting feat (Craft Wondrous) in addition to my automatic Scribe Scroll, though the character may have access to an equal level artificer ally as well, so things are pretty open. At present, my magical equipment is limited to a Wand of Magic Missile (level 3) that we found, and numerous scrolls that I have scribed myself.

Don't worry about gold, but if the suggestions could be kept in the realm of normal (or even less) for the level, that would be great.

I ask as this is my first Wizard character. Usually just have to buy the best shield and armor I can get my hands on, and hope to find a magic sword!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

EDIT: Forgot to mention books available... probably anything goes, as the group I play with has a pretty decent library when combined all together.

Some would say Boccob's Blessed book but I believe any Bag of Holding should head up your list especially as you'll be needing all of its space to carry all your spellbooks and other gear to do with researching spells, etc...

In one game i played in the wizard got his hands on a ring of spell turning and it would take crowbarring it off his cold dead hand to get it off of him...
That would be another option but remember that particular magical item has to be activated to be used something i had to remind him on every occasion he was about to be hit by some spell effect or invisible beholder's disintregration ray... apparently the gm who ran that game believed beholder's could become wizards without losing their central eye of anti-magicness.
Its not the first time he's ignored the rules and common sense when doing so can only be described as spiteful but fortunately for said mage the player was his brother so he got away with it, me on the other hand being stuck facing the opposite way from an activated symbol of insanity with a pillar blocking my view of it IF i had been facing the right way was still left insane even though it was an utterly pointless act of him being unable to put one over on me...again and I'm not kidding about that part!

Sorry bad memory reminder....

Matthew
2007-06-13, 01:02 PM
Wait, if common meals are 3sp per day, then they aren't even paying for meals. Although I suppose most commoners are growing and cooking their own meals, I just don't get it.

Heh, yeah, the D&D economy is a holdover from (A)D&D. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. There are a number of interpretations for how it might work, but taken by itself a Commoner can afford one Poor Meal a day, not really enough to feed himself, never mind support a family.

Overlord
2007-06-13, 03:57 PM
Heh, yeah, the D&D economy is a holdover from (A)D&D. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. There are a number of interpretations for how it might work, but taken by itself a Commoner can afford one Poor Meal a day, not really enough to feed himself, never mind support a family.

Well, at risk of derailing this thread, I'm going to point something out.

Firstly, that price is really for adventurers, not for commoners. It's to be expected that the local inns and taverns will jack up the prices of things if they know you can afford it.

Secondly, the cost given for one poor meal is not the cost required to make the meal, it's the cost to buy one at an inn or tavern. So 3 gp per month isn't buying him a single meal he or his wife made at home, it's buying him a meal at the local tavern every night. Just like if you were to eat out every night, it would cost you considerably more money to purchase the same amount of food you could make yourself for much cheaper (granted, there certainly benefits to eating out, but you're not a medieval peasant). What ever inn/tavern that's selling him the meal is making a profit off it, to be sure. A poor meal consists of "bread, baked turnips, onions, and water." Well, if you're a farmer, you probably already grow your own turnips and/or onions, and you would most likely get wheat to make flour from your lord as part or even all of your payment for your services. And of course, even if you don't have a stream nearby, rainwater is free (you can build a basin out of quarterstaves :P). So, if you're a farmer, a "poor meal" is basically free, costs of seeds to plant your turnips not withstanding. And if you're not a farmer, you're probably making closer to the 30 gp a month that having ranks in profession would net you.

Besides, according to Craft, the raw materials cost for a poor meal would be 3 cp.

Matthew
2007-06-13, 04:10 PM
As I said, there are many interpretations that attempt to circumvent the fact that the D&D economy makes no sense.

There is actually no indication in the PHB that these costs apply only to adventurers, as far as I am aware (though in previous editions this idea was invoked, though it still made no sense). Nor is there any reason to suppose that even at a rate of 3 Copper Coins per Meal 1 Silver Coin per Day is a reasonable wage for a labourer in a city, who must pay for lodging, beer, food, dependents and other expenses. No matter which way you look at it, it doesn't work because D&D costs aren't balanced with that in mind.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 04:17 PM
Heh, yeah, the D&D economy is a holdover from (A)D&D. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. There are a number of interpretations for how it might work, but taken by itself a Commoner without a single rank in Profession, Craft, Perform, Tumble, or Sleight of Hand can afford one day's worth of Poor Meals a day, not really enough to feed himself, never mind support a family that, like him, doesn't have a single rank in any useful skill.

Fixed that for ya.

Matthew
2007-06-13, 04:22 PM
Well, apart from your fix not appearing to make sense, unskilled labourers live up to their name.

Kantur
2007-06-13, 04:23 PM
I've always interperated the cost of meals/rate of pay as being the cost of a meal in an inn/restaurant/etc. So a commoner earning 1sp per day couldn't afford even a poor meal in an inn every day for even just himself, but the cost of the food to make a meal is much lower; like most of us couldn't afford to eat out every night, but an adventurer could easily afford to eat at inns every meal since they earn more in a week that most commoners earn in a year.

Matthew
2007-06-13, 04:28 PM
Indeed, but there is a price list for none meals, as well. 2 CP will buy you a half a pound of bread, 1 SP half a pound of cheese, 3 SP half a pound of meat, 4 CP for a mug of ale.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-13, 04:33 PM
Why not get Merlyns Spoon from DMs guide. Infinate porridge for life :smallwink:

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 04:33 PM
Well, apart from your fix not appearing to make sense, unskilled labourers live up to their name.

Yes, yes they do. As for my fix not making sense: an unskilled labourer can make 1 silver piece a day. This table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#meals) indicates that one day of Poor meals costs 1 silver piece. I infer this from the part that says "(per day)"; perhaps I'm misreading it?

Anyway, what kind of person refuses to learn a trade of any kind (or even beg for food using Diplomacy, or mug people using a club and Intimidate)? I should think that a totally unskilled worker is going to have a hard time of it in reality...

EDIT: In fact, you can use Diplomacy or Bluff untrained. Eventually someone's going to botch their Sense Motive and hand you some coin...

Matthew
2007-06-13, 04:51 PM
It doesn't make sense because the first sentence now contradicts the rest of the paragraph.

Yes, you are correct 1 SP per day will feed the Unskilled Labourer, but that is all it will do, it will not pay for his lodgings. Even with a liberal view of the Crafting Rules he still isn't going to make ends meet.

An Unskilled Labourer is an Unskilled Labourer, who knows why they never learned a trade? Presumably they never got the opportunity.

However, if we go down this road where everyone has a profession, we're suddenly experiencing the reverse problem where every NPC can earn well above what he needs to survive, maybe as much as 200, 300 or 400 Silver Coins per Month. Hell, if a labourer can survive on 1 SP per day, that's 270 SP of pure profit... taxes you say? arggh...

Rowan Intheback
2007-06-13, 04:56 PM
Ring of sustanance: 1000 gold

You don't need to to sleep or eat evr again. yes you still need to rest and all that jazz but you can be on watch while resting as the "trancing" involved in resting with the ring allows for listen checks. very cool to have. It's great for rp especially if you don't trust someone.

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-13, 05:09 PM
Matthew:
All of that is true. I was just objecting to the assertion that food was somehow hard for Commoners to obtain (which is why I didn't "fix" the part that said the system was ridiculous, because it is).

CASTLEMIKE
2007-06-13, 06:52 PM
Saph nailed it in her post.

Crafting item extends your gold if your DM lets you craft items and you generally get the best bang for your buck with Craft Wonderous Item. The experience cost is usually very minor unless abused.

Things like a the Boccob's Blessed Spell Book Primer or a +4 Headband of Intellect earlier in the game or enhancing some items found in a dungeon for the party instead of selling them for half price and buying something for full price.

In the end the game usually revolves around killing things and taking their treasure so optimize that potential. Maximize what you get for your gold.

Boccob's Blessed Spellbook (Primer) with a 100 pages for 10% of the standard cost for a 1,000 page book using standard magic item creation rules. IMO this is what most apprentices should start the game with when you figure up the costs for making their spellbooks. Look at crafting gates as one example for prorating magic items.

Scrolls and Potions (Useful scroll assortment 500 - 1,000 GP which you make for half cost which your group should ante up for in a party collection)

Head band of Intellect

Purchase a few eternal level 1 wands if you can. Or purchase a few Harper or Divine talismans for 300 GP that can cast a level 1 spell like cure light or fast healing 1 or other spell once a day for any character.

Despite the initial cost these don't wear out so are much better than potions in the long run or even a wand of cure light because the PCs will always need healing.

Synergize that healing using permanent items first and limited use items second which will really extend the usefulness of a 50 charge wand of fasthealing 1.

Several first level Pearls of Power usable by any spellcaster (Give you more spellcasting options as a wizard and spellcasting like a sorcerer for a breadth of spells). They can really help the party if a pinch if shared.

Cloak of protection +2

Hewards Handy Haversack

Lesser Metamagic rod if you can buy one eventually.

A Bag of Tricks is really nice for someone in the party particularly the Tan One with a Druid or Ranger. It's really nice if your DM will let you make a variant using Summon Monsters.

The Powergamer's guide to Wizards pdf at RPG is nice and will provide a few useful ideas to almost anyone who enjoys using PC wizards.

Yeril
2007-06-14, 04:30 AM
Fortitfying bedroll wouldn't work. sure you only sleep for 1 hour but you still need to rest for 8. it notes the same under elves who only "trance" for 4 hours a night, but they still have to relax for a further 4 hours until they can prepare spells.

Yeril
2007-06-14, 04:34 AM
Why not get Merlyns Spoon from DMs guide. Infinate porridge for life :smallwink:

I love merlyns spoon, its the one magical item I MUST obtain!

Rad
2007-06-14, 06:31 AM
this might be worth reading about commoners:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=719384

About the original topic... the handy haversack is a must if your DM is strict on encumbrance and/or picking up something from your backpack, but shouldn't be bothered with otherwise. Also, if you routinely use levitation and/or fly with wind wall you're probably not that concerned about AC and could use something else.
Boots of levitation are much cheaper than those granting fly and usually all you need is being out of melee range; 7,500gp (half that for item creation) are worth the slots for me. Plus they are unlimited uses per day.
If your DM enjoys disabling you, a metamagic rod of still/silent spell is much more useful than the feat since you can choose which spell to affect on the fly, and 3 times per day are probably more than enough for those situations.
The blessed book is just a bank... I wonder why they made such an item in the first place if they had the intention of having the cost of scribing spells as a balancing factor. Can't lose with that!
As for pearls of power... I never heard of DMs ruling that 20 of those would NOT allow you to cast the same spell 20 times :smalleek:

Matthew
2007-06-14, 06:55 AM
Heh, that article nicely sidesteps the issue. What about the Common Labourer? Sure, anybody with Profession can make money, we've seen that, but it's the Common Labourer we're concerned with...

All the same, what it really comes down to is that D&D's economy mechanics are not intended to be able to support the game world, they're just abstractions for the game. Plenty of things make little sense, such as the cost of Long Bows versus Swords (or better yet Arrows), but that's to be expected when you wholesale import a pricelist from Second Edition without any of the caveats that went along with them.

Tyger
2007-06-14, 07:42 AM
Actually, the Fortifying Bedroll specifies that it does indeed allow casters to regain their spells, so yes, it would work.

The Blessed Book is just looking better and better all the time. I was excited about one of these, now I am ecstatic! The more I hear, the better it gets. Especially because my character is going to have an extended downtime to work with after our current adventure. Hell, by the time it ends, I think we could be even level 9 or 10!

I think a couple of Pearls of Power are probably in the offing. I have a level 2 one right now, and it has been used a couple times. Having a few more would be nice, just so that I wouldn't have to worry about my spells so much. Though now that we're at a bit higher level, that hasn't been so much of an issue.

The Boots of Levitation are a good idea. Thus far, our party has done a pretty good job of keeping the nasty men with sharp pointy sticks away from me, but if they ever do have a breach, these would be handy to float out of harms reach. Though by the time I can craft them I may be able to just cast the old Overland Flight and then its a non-issue.

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.

On the Commoner note... hell, its been said a hundred times. D&D economy makes ZERO sense. If you think about it too much, your brain will explode.

Matthew
2007-06-14, 07:52 AM
Arrgghh *Brain explodes!*

lord_khaine
2007-06-14, 08:34 AM
i really would recomend at least a +2 con item, whatever your current con is, atm its at least 2 points to low...

besides that, a lesser metamagic rod of empower is a great item for those occations where you feel the need to roll a fistfull of dice, and then slowly count out how much damage your 18d6 scorching ray actualy did :)

PlatinumJester
2007-06-14, 09:15 AM
I love merlyns spoon, its the one magical item I MUST obtain!

I know. Go into a poor town and make loads of porridge. Then eat it in front of the poor people MWAHAHAHAHA. Then use some form of charm spell/sleep to make them give you money (or just blackmail them). After that you can then kidnap their children and possibly eat them.

barawn
2007-06-14, 09:22 AM
Heh, that article nicely sidesteps the issue. What about the Common Labourer? Sure, anybody with Profession can make money, we've seen that, but it's the Common Labourer we're concerned with...

A person without any ranks in any profession isn't going to be able to feed himself. Why is this surprising? It means this person put no effort into learning how to make money in any profession whatsoever. That sounds like a description for a guy who's sleeping in the alley outside a local tavern, or still sleeping at home with his parents.

It's hard to imagine someone who's worked 10 years at a specific job not having ranks in Profession. Just from an employment standpoint, his boss would fire him, as he's doing a substandard job.

Charity
2007-06-14, 09:22 AM
What has that got to do with anything PJ?

I'm suprised no-one has mentioned the ubiquitous mithril buckler + whatever, for all your wizarding needs... As it goes do you have to be profficient with an animated shield in order to use one?

Edit - hang on ^ there are plenty of unskilled labourers now, let alone in the fuzzy historical period in which D&D is often seen as set.
Ditch diggers, hod carriers, fruit pickers, none of these would get ranks in any particular proffesion or craft, and I imagine they all work pretty hard for a living. Education for peasants does not exist in ... any of the game worlds I have played in over the years. Are you honestly trying to defend D&D economics? Now I've seen it all, explain to me why a longbow cost 75gp, (a longbow is a peasant weapon) whereas a longsword (swords were the most expensive weapons to manufacture pound for pound) costs the princely sum of 15gp, or a bolas (two wooden balls tied together with string) costs the same as a light mace (which is entirely constructed out of steel).
D&D economics is daft, we all know it.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-14, 09:35 AM
[QUOTE=Charity;2741217]What has that got to do with anything PJ?QUOTE]

Just a fun thing to do. Children go great with BBQ sauce.

Tyger
2007-06-14, 09:48 AM
I'm suprised no-one has mentioned the ubiquitous mithril buckler + whatever, for all your wizarding needs... As it goes do you have to be profficient with an animated shield in order to use one?

Yup, that was actually mentioned about 10 posts in, along with the Mithril Twilight enchanted chain shirt.

And nope, if you make it animated, you wouldn't need proficiency with it, but you already don't which is the point of making it in the first place. What would be the advantage, for a mage, to having an animated buckler? Pretty rare that you'd be foregoing your off hand, unless you're in melee and are swinging about with your staff I suppose. Then its already too late. :smallbiggrin:

Charity
2007-06-14, 10:07 AM
Yup, that was actually mentioned about 10 posts in, along with the Mithril Twilight enchanted chain shirt.
Was it, damn my old eyes, well anyhow, it still makes sense


And nope, if you make it animated, you wouldn't need proficiency with it, but you already don't which is the point of making it in the first place. What would be the advantage, for a mage, to having an animated buckler? Pretty rare that you'd be foregoing your off hand, unless you're in melee and are swinging about with your staff I suppose. Then its already too late. :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking more along the lines of a large/tower sheild if you are going to bother animating it (can you animate tower shields in 3.5? You can in 3.0)

CASTLEMIKE
2007-06-14, 10:21 AM
Isn't the Bag or Pouch of Trail Rations only 750 GP and feeds an adventurer for a day compared to the more expensive spoon?

Ikkitosen
2007-06-14, 10:36 AM
... As it goes do you have to be profficient with an animated shield in order to use one?

You still need proficiency by RAW (and RAI IMO). I'm guessing you still control what the shield does, and if yuo're crap at that it's going to get in your way a lot!

PlatinumJester
2007-06-14, 11:11 AM
Isn't the Bag or Pouch of Trail Rations only 750 GP and feeds an adventurer for a day compared to the more expensive spoon?

The spoon lasts forever man. The spoon is not some pathetic piece of crap but the best item ever.

Tyger
2007-06-14, 11:29 AM
Yeah, an animated large or tower shield still imposes its ACP and spell failure penalties, so its not a good idea, unless you have the proficiency.

For short term use though, the Shieldbearer spell from SC is great. Instant animated shield, with no penalties. Granted, its one round / level, so short term use only, but still kinda nice for emergencies.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-06-14, 05:18 PM
The spoon lasts forever man. The spoon is not some pathetic piece of crap but the best item ever.

The bag/pouch of rations which tastes better in all probablility than the gruel from the spoon which tastes like warm wet cardboard, also lasts forever plus you could purchase 7 of them for the same price of a Murlynd's Spoon with 150 extra GP and actually feed 3 more people a day as I recall from memory.

PlatinumJester
2007-06-15, 06:27 AM
The bag/pouch of rations which tastes better in all probablility than the gruel from the spoon which tastes like warm wet cardboard, also lasts forever plus you could purchase 7 of them for the same price of a Murlynd's Spoon with 150 extra GP and actually feed 3 more people a day as I recall from memory.

Yeah but spoon is so much cooler even if the gruel tastes like arse. Plus it weighs almost nothing.

Keld Denar
2007-06-15, 09:35 AM
The mith shield also have the benefit of tack on a bunch of other stuff on it. Fortification (heavy) is one of the best equipment modifiers in the game. Only costs 35,000 more to tack it onto the existing +1 mith buckler. By the RAW, there is no other way to get complete immunity to crits/sneak attacks for a normally unarmored caster unless your dm allows you to tack it onto bracers of armor or something, and then its custom and not RAW. Also, the DMG has a lot of fun mods to add to armor/shields that don't take up +s. Pick up fire resist, cold resist, elec resist, acid resist, and a couple others for 18k each for 10 points. Half it all if you get craft A&A. I think MICompendium reduced all of those prices too, but I don't have it (yet). Lots of quick ways to burn through cash if you want some added protection.

Lycurgus
2007-06-15, 10:45 AM
You can never have too many wands! Amulets of Natural Armor are good too. Maybe I'm just XP greedy, but I'd rather buy than craft. I had a wizard once with the Monk's belt. It's awfully funny when a hobgoblin thinks he has the weak little wizard and HIYA! :smallbiggrin:

Indon
2007-06-15, 10:49 AM
The bag/pouch of rations which tastes better in all probablility than the gruel from the spoon which tastes like warm wet cardboard, also lasts forever plus you could purchase 7 of them for the same price of a Murlynd's Spoon with 150 extra GP and actually feed 3 more people a day as I recall from memory.

With Predestidigitation, everything tastes great.