Strip 1007 vs Strip 84 vs OtOOPCs

[NihhusHuotAliro]

In On The Origin Of PCs, Durkon says that the human world is "anarchy", and that humans are "cruel, selfish bastards" who live without the guidance of "any clan or ancestors".

in 84, he again says that he hates the human world, with their hedonistic "if it feels groovy, do it" ways and their "inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness".

In OOTOPCs, Durkon was a lost soul, bitter and hateful, banished from his people into an unfamiliar human world. But his hate was towards the human world, not towards his own people. In 84, he says that he stays in the human world out of duty, because duty is what being a dwarf is all about. His Duty is his connection to his culture, he may have left the Dwarven lands, but he never left the Dwarven way, and in that way he keeps his family and friends in his heart. This, I feel, is the defining aspect of Durkon.

I always found Durkon the most relate-able out of the OOTS. Being Lawful Good and religious, from a culture quite like OOTS Dwarves, I always felt that Durkon was one of the very few characters in any media that had thought processes like mine. His anger at the human world is my anger at the modern world; his sense of duty to his people is my sense of duty to my people.

So why, in 1007, is flashback-Durkon mad at Hurak, at his own church? Why is he resenting his duty and his people? Durkon is many things, but a traitor to his people, even in extremity of duty, he is not.

tldr; Durkon needs a Zimmerwald, why shouldn't it be me.

[War-Wren]

My take on it was that his anger and frustration is mainly because he is being cast out without the chance to prepare, to say goodbye to his family, or even a reasonable explanation as to why he has to go and why right this very second.

He is a dutiful dwarf and is doing as he is told, but for that moment, in the depths of his frustration and anger, he curses his lot in life.

[Kantaki]

Sure, Durkon is loyal and always does his duty, but that doesn't change the fact that he was literally thrown out of his home, without a chance to say goodbye to his family, I think most people would be angry about that.
I think it says a lot about Durkon that he emerged from his darkest hour (mostly) as the loyal and dutiful dwarf he was before despite the way Hurak treated him.

[Grey Watcher]

In On The Origin Of PCs, Durkon says that the human world is "anarchy", and that humans are "cruel, selfish bastards" who live without the guidance of "any clan or ancestors".

in 84, he again says that he hates the human world, with their hedonistic "if it feels groovy, do it" ways and their "inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness".

In OOTOPCs, Durkon was a lost soul, bitter and hateful, banished from his people into an unfamiliar human world. But his hate was towards the human world, not towards his own people. In 84, he says that he stays in the human world out of duty, because duty is what being a dwarf is all about. His Duty is his connection to his culture, he may have left the Dwarven lands, but he never left the Dwarven way, and in that way he keeps his family and friends in his heart. This, I feel, is the defining aspect of Durkon.

I always found Durkon the most relate-able out of the OOTS. Being Lawful Good and religious, from a culture quite like OOTS Dwarves, I always felt that Durkon was one of the very few characters in any media that had thought processes like mine. His anger at the human world is my anger at the modern world; his sense of duty to his people is my sense of duty to my people.

So why, in 1007, is flashback-Durkon mad at Hurak, at his own church? Why is he resenting his duty and his people? Durkon is many things, but a traitor to his people, even in extremity of duty, he is not.

tldr; Durkon needs a Zimmerwald, why shouldn't it be me.

I think what you're seeing in 1007 is the brief flash of anger at his treatment before he buried those feelings deep down the way his mum taught him to. I don't think anywhere is it stated that his sense of duty towards the Dwarves and the Church of Thor is (necessarily) born of any love for those groups. Yes, Durkon does seem to have a genuine love of Thor Himself, but his reasons for becoming a Cleric were pretty straightforward and pragmatic: he wanted to learn the magic necessary to regenerate his mother's hand, and becoming a priest of Thor was an appropriate means of doing so: if, by some metaphysical twist, Hilgya (ie a fundamentally Chaotic personality) had been Sigdi's child instead of Durkon, she might've become an Ur-Priest or gone off on a quest to find a more willing priest outsider her own culture. But Durkon's sense of duty is much like Frederick's in The Pirates of Penzance, how he feels about the people he owes his allegiance to is completely irrelevant to whether or not he gives it. Being a Dwarf was chosen for him at birth, being a priest of Thor was something he chose when he went to the seminary, and just because he might not have made the same decisions had he known what was in store doesn't change the fact that he DID make those decisions and, to his Lawful mind, must abide by them, whatever they may bring. (Similarly, the High Priest of Hel STARTED with the moment of anger, so for him "Ye all can got Hel!" is the initial state, and no amount of warm fuzzy memories of Dwarfdom he sees after that will sway him from his chosen course.)

I hope that made sense? :smallconfused:

[Cizak]

Wasn't #1007 all about how the flashback had always been true, but Durkon had hidden it away within himself?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Yeah, it makes sense. 1007 makes a whole lot more sense now.

I guess the thing is that I'd connected what was, as Grey Watcher said, a brief flash of anger, with Durkon's sour attitude towards the world in OTOOPCs.

Dang, Lurky's good at his job. That's some IFCC-level messing with the truth.

[Morquard]

Dang, Lurky's good at his job. That's some IFCC-level messing with the truth.

No, I'm pretty sure HPoH just doesn't get it at all. And this inability to understand it will ultimately be his downfall.

[Quebbster]

A question that just popped into my head: If Durkon's main motivation for becoming a cleric was to be able to heal his mother's arm, wouldn't it make more sense to worship Odin, god of magic? Heck, I think his mother mentioned the high priest of Odin might be able to do it, but they couldn't afford it...

[Spartakus]

tldr; Durkon needs a Zimmerwald, why shouldn't it be me.

Out of curiosity, could you please explain to me what this phrase means? Never heard "needing a Zimmerwald" before.

[Porthos]

There's also transference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference) at play here, IMO.

Durkon is/was pissed off and agitated about how he was treated. But outside of brief moments of anger, he really can't express it toward his homeland and fellow countryfolk. In fact, the very idea of doing that would be repugnant to him, again outside moments of despair (whether it will in the future, time will tell).

Yet all those negative emotions and feelings are still swirling around inside of him. So he transfers and channels those thoughts and feelings to all the things he detests about human lands.

In short, they were an outlet for him. Until he met Roy and found someone who reminded him of the best of his homeland and way of life. Then he was able to refocus his life on something he liked and was able to become more like the person he was.

[factotum]

You shouldn't forget that both the situations where Durkon railed against the human world happened years after his exile, whereas the bit where he was cursing his own people happened only a week or so afterward, so the simple lapse of time might explain why he feels differently. He's had twenty-odd years of seeing how the humans do it, and that's plenty of time to reinforce his belief that the dwarven way is the One True Way, despite his sadness at being kicked out in the first place.

[Keltest]

I think youre reading too much into it. Youll notice that Durkon isn't saying anything that implies he wont go and do his task, just that he really doesn't want to, and that he resents the circumstances.

Besides, Duties that make you miserable are the most dwarf like of all duties.

[Peelee]

Out of curiosity, could you please explain to me what this phrase means? Never heard "needing a Zimmerwald" before.

Zimmerwald is a forumite. He has been rather.... zealous, in his unfavorable viewpoints and opinions of Vaarsuvius in the past. I believe he has been more forgiving recently, though his issues did have some merit.

[littlebum2002]

Zimmerwald is a forumite. He has been rather.... zealous, in his unfavorable viewpoints and opinions of Vaarsuvius in the past. I believe he has been more forgiving recently, though his issues did have some merit.

But what's weird is that the OP is comparing himself to "the zimmerwald of Durkon" right after describing how much he likes Durkon.

Also, did he create a new word? You are a "zimmerwald" if you like a piece of media but are a very vocal critic of one character from that media.

[xroads]

A question that just popped into my head: If Durkon's main motivation for becoming a cleric was to be able to heal his mother's arm, wouldn't it make more sense to worship Odin, god of magic? Heck, I think his mother mentioned the high priest of Odin might be able to do it, but they couldn't afford it...

Sigdi did mention that Odin's priests could do it. But I think the implication was because none of Thor's priests in that area (or that point in time), were high enough level. Or perhaps Thor's priests, worshippers of a storm god, don't typically provide that service to the public.

And I suspect Durkon chose Thor as his patron diety because both Sigdi and him had already been worshippers of Thor.

[StragaSevera]

A question that just popped into my head: If Durkon's main motivation for becoming a cleric was to be able to heal his mother's arm, wouldn't it make more sense to worship Odin, god of magic? Heck, I think his mother mentioned the high priest of Odin might be able to do it, but they couldn't afford it...

I think because people do not choose deity by criteria of 'maximum usefullness'. It does not work this way.

[Noodz]

I agree with the OP that seeing the HPoH using Durkon's own frustrations to cast him into despair was pure brilliance. It was obvious since strip 84 that Durkon dealt with his emotions by burying them. This allowed Durkon to function as the heroic and dependable cleric to the OotS, but it also meant that personal issues went unresolved for a long time.

Durkon never conciliated his feelings of being betrayed by the church of Thor and his duty to obey the mission that his church gave him. Had he been more outspoken and assertive (like Hylgia or Roy), he might have worked those feelings, but instead he quietly let these issues linger. I can personally relate on how debilitating it is to suddenly have these buried issues brought into the surface.

Thus, Durkon, who was previously protesting and resisting every move, had his spirit completely broken in 1007, to the point where not even Roy figuring out the thuth lifted him from his apathy. He accepted his own defeat, and truly believes the torments he is weathering at the hands of the vampire are deserved.


Of course the brilliance of this BSOD moment is only augmented when the HPoH tries the same thing with Roy. He might have though Roy, being of the same Lawful Good and responsible tendencies as Durkon, could also be brought down by wracking him with guilt. The HPoH went as far as trying to DOMINATE Roy into accepting the guilt for actions he was not responsible for. Luckily for us, Roy is more mature emotionally, and his mental fortitude allowed him to pick up the HPoH's mistep and realize the truth.