Gontor Vs. The Mechane

[ReleaseTheBees]

As Haley once said in 599 (can't post links yet);

:haley: "This story is swiftly moving from fantasy to horror"


Why is Gontor aboard the Mechane?
Who aboard is at the greatest risk of being attacked, killed or vampirised?
What new threat is this to the plot?

I'm expecting the vampire threat to be the main plotline of this book, and Durkula & Hel will be a threat for much longer than just the Godsmoot. Gontor's appearance aboard the Mechane will carry more consequences than just (maybe) having the teleport orb stolen - more likely, someone aboard is getting vamped, murdered, or at least attacked. So who's it gonna be?

First, let's consider Gontor:
Gontor, plus any number of the Exarch of the Stone clergy, has been quik-raised by Malack's staff and are aboard the Mechane. The "back-up plan" could be to

a) Steal the teleport orb. Supported by how Gontor has mist-ed his way straight into V's study. This would leave the Order without a means of getting to the final gate in short time. If this would be enough to force the destruction of the world is questionable. More likely, it is for the HPoH and his newly vampirised creed to port to the gate instead and destroy it, forcing the destruction of the world by the gods (as Loki said, they would have fifteen or so minutes to 'pull the plug if you-know-who gets out').

b) Kill the Order, swell the vampire ranks, crash the Mechane. I don't know what this would accomplish. There is no sense in just killing and vamping, as the vampire spirits that would inhabit all of those HUMAN (and 1 elf) corpses would not be from Hel's 'Dark Hall' and, besides, Gontor doesn't have the staff to quik-raise the vampires. But killing the Order would remove the force most capable of securing the gate and saving the world. Kill the party and the gods might just destroy the world on the backs of that (besides, of course, ending the campaign :smalltongue: )

Now, can Gontor even fight? He is a high level vampire cleric, but as he said pre-mortem in strip 995, he had used up all his spells for the day. Do vampires get raised with their new evil-spell slots replenished? If not, Gontor is limited to his vampire powers (which, themselves, are unlimited).

For these reasons, Gontor is more likely aboard the Mechane to steal or destroy the teleport orb.

BUT! No way would The Giant let a vampire onto the scene without placing the rest of the party in danger. So, who can be attacked at this point?

Evidence, for-and-against, circumstantial-or-solid, for each character aboard being attacked follows:

The Crew - Bandana, Andy, etc.
They as a group are the weakest aboard and would not have much chance against a high level vampire cleric (unless Bandana is carrying any more holy water (strip 972)).
BUT - the only reason any of them would be attacked is if they;
a) get in the way of Gontor's orders, or
b) Gontor's orders are to go on a killing spree and create new vampires. Again, Gontor has no quik-raise spell, so not likely.
None of the crew would have much of a chance against a HL vampire cleric. Stand by for deaths. (Note: Andy and Bandana have plot armor in this instance, as the leadership problems between the two haven't been resolved (see strip 988)).

Vaarsuvius
V should be able to defeat a vampirised Gontor, unless she loses a will save against a domination (or, but more unlikely, Gontor has access to anti-magic field).
If Gontor is able to dominate or is in a position to kill V, I would put money on the IFCC intervening with their 3 minute claim, proecting V's body and, more important to them, their 'investment' - they can't use their 20 minute share if V is dead, which will obviously happen at a much more... crucial time.

Elan
Some are guessing Elan will be vamped or dominated so he can step in as High Priest of Banjo and break the tie. Not going to happen, not with the timeframe available to Hel (i.e: the vote is happening NOW)

Haley
I have no evidence why Haley should be vampirised - except this line from strip 970 when Haley gives Elan the wand of Cure Moderate Wounds:

:elan: "I promise to use it on you most of all. Except I hope I don't have to."

Quite foreboding - this line sets up the idea that Haley will be vampirised and Elan will be forced to use the wand to fight her. But that's, like, Act 3 stuff.

Any other speculations?

[EmperorSarda]

The HPoH was not replenished on spells when he was brought back. He only had his remaining spells. So Count Gontor is low. He will need to pray for spells at dusk.

[rodneyAnonymous]

You didn't mention the possibility that the characters who might be attacked or killed include Blackwing, Bloodfeast, Little Whiskers, and Mr. Scruffy.

[dtilque]

I also expect that Gontula is not there just to steal the Orb. This is part of Hel/Durkula's Plan B and we already know that plan requires Roy to be killed. Just stealing the Orb to transport Durkevil and the vamped Stone Creeders to the final gate would not necessarily require that.

Elan has the tools to beat a vampire. If he can lure the vamp outside, a Greater Dispel Magic would do the trick. But knowing Elan, he won't do this, or at least not at first. Most likely he'll try an illusion or something equally ineffective.

Gontula should have most of his 1st and 2nd level spells left but not anything higher. The main spell they used to create the temple would be Shape Stone, which is a 3rd level spell.

I would expect Bandana to have more holy water. The fact that she had some before is sufficient foreshadowing for that. In fact, having some now is probably the main reason she had some then. That is, the main meta-reason; she gave an adequate in-comic reason at the time.

[factotum]

Gontor does not seem to be particularly high level, at least compared to the members of the Order--he got instantly grappled and killed by Durkula, for instance. Becoming a vampire will have made him more powerful, but powerful enough to threaten the Order on board the Mechane? Not even close, I think. Therefore, whatever he's there for involves something more stealthy than just killing members of the Order.

[Quild]

The orb would have been extremely useful for the Order if the Mechane couldn't have been repaired in time.
Now that the Mechane is fully operational, it's not such a big deal to lose the orb.

Except, well, that it does help Hel's vampires a lot.

[ReleaseTheBees]

This is part of Hel/Durkula's Plan B and we already know that plan requires Roy to be killed.

I think you might have misread that one. Durkula says he wanted to "knock Roy off the board in case we needed the next phase", which means he doesn't need Roy at all - in fact, he wants to kill him so Roy doesn't get in the way of Plan B.


You didn't mention the possibility that the characters who might be attacked or killed include Blackwing, Bloodfeast, Little Whiskers, and Mr. Scruffy.

True. Blackwing might see fit to try and fly and warn V of the vampire attack. Makes sense in story, but meta-wise killing Blackwing now serves no purpose, especially as that ioun stone he just picked up hasn't been put to use yet (of course as soon as it has, all bets are off). The other familiars and pets also have no reason to die, and Hel wouldn't concern herself with a few animals - again, unless they get in the way.

[brian 333]

What is the female Stone Creed cleric doing right now?

Yes, Gontula is raiding the Mechane, and I like the reasoning presented above, but there are at least two, (and potentially more depending on how powerful Malack's Staff really is,) vampire clerics of Hel now.

My bet is that she is hunting down Belkar now with the intent of fulfilling his prophecy.

[Wildroses]

I certainly consider the quartet of animal companions to be in the most danger right now. I could see Gontula deciding to attempt to kill them right now in a misguided attempt to avoid them raising the alarm. They aren't as helpless as they appear (except for Little Whiskers who is way more helpless than he looks) so this attempt will backfire spectacularly in his face, but they could still get hurt. Part of me wants Blackwing to be the obvious savior of the day, only to have his tendency to be ignored cause all the credit to go to the cowardly Little Whiskers instead.

Really the thing which bothers me most about the theory that Gondor is after the teleport orb to blow up the final gate is that the timing seems wrong in a narrative sense. It's a totally sensible and logical theory with much evidence in it's favour. If I was Hel that would totally be my back up plan. But if he gets away with the teleport orb then the Order of the Stick will have to drop everything and rush to the final gate. And I really feel that the final gate conflict should happen in the final book, not the second last book. I can't help feeling the story needs to wrap up Durkon's personal storyline of the vampire and bringing death and destruction before they wrap up the main plot of the gates and Xykon. Of course, if he fails utterly at getting the orb then the narrative still works.

[factotum]

My bet is that she is hunting down Belkar now with the intent of fulfilling his prophecy.

What would be the point? As far as Durkula knows Belkar is dead--he threw him out of a window above a very, very deep chasm. Sending a servant to look for him on the one in a million chance he might not be dead seems a poor use of resources.

[ReleaseTheBees]

And I really feel that the final gate conflict should happen in the final book, not the second last book.
Ah, but you're forgetting Xyxon's fortress on the other plane. The most dramatic turn concerning the Snarl will happen at the final GATE - the final DUNGEON is Xykon's fortress.

[Mandor]

Ah, but you're forgetting Xyxon's fortress on the other plane. The most dramatic turn concerning the Snarl will happen at the final GATE - the final DUNGEON is Xykon's fortress.

That might make sense if Xykon's fortress actually held his phylactery, since they'd need to go there and destroy it for good. However, Redcloak pulled a switcharoo, and the fortress only holds a decoy phylactery. Redcloak has the REAL soul-hidey-place, on his person or perhaps in Gobbotopia... but I strongly suspect it's on his person, so he can dispatch Xykon for good after the Dark One's plan is fulfilled.

[Mandor]

Really the thing which bothers me most about the theory that Gondor is after the teleport orb to blow up the final gate is that the timing seems wrong in a narrative sense. It's a totally sensible and logical theory with much evidence in it's favour. If I was Hel that would totally be my back up plan. But if he gets away with the teleport orb then the Order of the Stick will have to drop everything and rush to the final gate. And I really feel that the final gate conflict should happen in the final book, not the second last book. I can't help feeling the story needs to wrap up Durkon's personal storyline of the vampire and bringing death and destruction before they wrap up the main plot of the gates and Xykon. Of course, if he fails utterly at getting the orb then the narrative still works.

Careful, a certain general once demanded that the actual events unfold to fit his preconcieved narrative... it didn't work out for him either. :smallwink:

More seriously, you have a point. Logically, Gontar would probably be able to succeed in a stealthy snatch-and-grab of the orb and then destroy the Mechane (if only by destroying the blimp part that holds the rest of the airship afloat) ... IF... he has protection from Daylight on him. Which i suppose he probably does. If he was Quik-Raised off panel, it's believable he got protectd from daylight off panel. But Blackwing could change that by altering V.

[zimmerwald1915]

True. Blackwing might see fit to try and fly and warn V of the vampire attack.
I'm not sure this is necessary. Blackwing's empathic link with V might not transmit specific thoughts or warnings, but V would pick up on her familiar's confusion (what he feels now) or his pain or fear (what he might feel upon being set upon by a vampire).

[Noodz]

I think it's perfectly feasible for the vampires to steal the orb and teleport into Kraagor's gate. You have to remember two things:

1) The orb replicates the effects of the teleport spell, not the greater teleport. Thus, it's dramatically appropriate for the vampire party to appear off-target, 1d100% of the distance from the godsmoot to Kragor's tomb, as per the rules;

2) The HPoH, between his own memories and those of Durkon, is very unlikely to know the exact location of the gate. This means he won't appear right next to the gate, he will, at best, only appear "on the last gate's front porch". Like Xykon;

3) Because of 2), this means Kraagor's tomb will still be very well defended from all the monsters Serini placed there. No matter how powerful a vampire-cleric can be, bypassing a tomb built by an epic level character specifically crafted to keep anyone out will certainly take a while;

4) And my favorite: If the vampire gang really shows up in the area around Kraagor's tomb, they will meet up with Xykon and Redcloak. Now this is a turn of events that will certainly be VERY INTERESTING to watch :smallbiggrin:

[Nazzo, the 102nd]

What would be the point? As far as Durkula knows Belkar is dead--he threw him out of a window above a very, very deep chasm. Sending a servant to look for him on the one in a million chance he might not be dead seems a poor use of resources.

You know, a 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html).

Sorry, someone had to do it. :smallbiggrin:

[Wildroses]

Careful, a certain general once demanded that the actual events unfold to fit his preconcieved narrative... it didn't work out for him either. :smallwink:

More seriously, you have a point. Logically, Gontar would probably be able to succeed in a stealthy snatch-and-grab of the orb and then destroy the Mechane (if only by destroying the blimp part that holds the rest of the airship afloat) ... IF... he has protection from Daylight on him. Which i suppose he probably does. If he was Quik-Raised off panel, it's believable he got protectd from daylight off panel. But Blackwing could change that by altering V.

A lot of my conviction that the last gate should happen in the last book is because climaxes should (in my opinion) be the most exciting part of the story with the highest stakes and under that definition it is hard to top saving the world.

Not impossible though. I do have a lot of faith in the Giants storytelling ability. He has produced some surprising plot twists in the past so it is possible that a race to the gate and showdown happen this book but something unanticipated occurs so they need to spend another book dealing with it.

[blunk]

but something unanticipated occurs so they need to spend another book dealing with it.I don't think that the HPoH is going to have more than one or two Creedsters with him when he leaves, and that's not going to be enough to take on Team Evil (much less whatever monsters they have to fight through). So he'll stop over in dwarven lands to raise a vampire army, and that could easily pad out a book, what with Durkon's family being there (and the unknowns surrounding his father), the animosity toward the Church of Thor, etc. Oh yeah, and he'll be bringing death and destruction when he returns home.

Edit: and it could work out that the army and the Order (plus whatever High Priests come along) could both arrive at about the same time that Team Evil is finishing the ritual, causing all sorts of chaos and excitement.

[Phexar]

I do suspect the Teleport Orb will be lost somehow, since that would force the Order to use the Mechane again to continue their journey and thus we might get to see more conflict between Bandana and Andi which we last saw brewing in #988. Some of the crew seemed happy about not having to ferry the Order around any more like a 'sky taxi' in #990, so I can't imagine they'd be too thrilled either.


I don't think that the HPoH is going to have more than one or two Creedsters with him when he leaves, and that's not going to be enough to take on Team Evil (much less whatever monsters they have to fight through). So he'll stop over in dwarven lands to raise a vampire army, and that could easily pad out a book, what with Durkon's family being there (and the unknowns surrounding his father), the animosity toward the Church of Thor, etc. Oh yeah, and he'll be bringing death and destruction when he returns home.

Edit: and it could work out that the army and the Order (plus whatever High Priests come along) could both arrive at about the same time that Team Evil is finishing the ritual, causing all sorts of chaos and excitement.

I'm thinking something like this might happen - Durkula would surely know that he and a handful of weaker CoS vampires wouldn't be any sort of match for Xykon and Redcloak. Carrying out a backup plan that involves sucking a lot of blood seems like it would be something that a vampire would be 'very much looking forward to'.

[Silverionmox]

That might make sense if Xykon's fortress actually held his phylactery, since they'd need to go there and destroy it for good. However, Redcloak pulled a switcharoo, and the fortress only holds a decoy phylactery. Redcloak has the REAL soul-hidey-place, on his person or perhaps in Gobbotopia... but I strongly suspect it's on his person, so he can dispatch Xykon for good after the Dark One's plan is fulfilled.

It makes perfect sense. After the gate is dealt with, they will obtain Redcloak's holy symbol, identify it as the phylactery, and then proceed to smoke out Xykon who has gotten bored and gone off to his fortress.

As for plan B, teleporting to the dwarven lands and vampirizing an underground city sounds like something that would give Hel plenty of souls and a very strong toehold on the mortal plane. It's not all dwarves, but it's a huge progress.

Incidentally, that gives a story hook to produce a sequel centered on Durkon, just like Haley/Elan and Vaarsuvius already have theirs (overthrowing the empire of blood and making amendments for the familicide, respectively).

[TCRM]

Gontor shouldn't need spells to take anyone on. He is a vampire, yes newly raised, but his negative energy abilities and increased strength, natural armour, hit points, damage reduction, whole spiel make him a legit threat to anyone not expecting him. Also, are we sure that he isn't now a priest of Hela? Because if so, wouldn't that affect his spell situation vis a vis availability?

[rodneyAnonymous]

Also, are we sure that he isn't now a priest of Hela? Because if so, wouldn't that affect his spell situation vis a vis availability?

No. He is out of spells.

[Deliverance]

Gontor shouldn't need spells to take anyone on. He is a vampire, yes newly raised, but his negative energy abilities and increased strength, natural armour, hit points, damage reduction, whole spiel make him a legit threat to anyone not expecting him. Also, are we sure that he isn't now a priest of Hela? Because if so, wouldn't that affect his spell situation vis a vis availability?
While a vampire is a threat to anybody not expecting it, some people are more threatened than others. As an example, a vampire without a solid complement of spells going for V had better be able to kill or incapacitate V in his one surprise round of combat or he's going to be in deep trouble.

If nothing else, Forcecage (windowless cell) and Resilient Sphere are in V's standard repertoire as we saw in the casterfight, allowing V all the time in the world to decide how to deal with the threat, since none of a vampire's myriad abilities are of any help escaping either. You need serious magic.

[TCRM]

While a vampire is a threat to anybody not expecting it, some people are more threatened than others. As an example, a vampire without a solid complement of spells going for V had better be able to kill or incapacitate V in his one surprise round of combat or he's going to be in deep trouble.

If nothing else, Forcecage (windowless cell) and Resilient Sphere are in V's standard repertoire as we saw in the casterfight, allowing V all the time in the world to decide how to deal with the threat, since none of a vampire's myriad abilities are of any help escaping either. You need serious magic.

True. In the absence of containment V would still be in danger but with Forcecage and Resilient Sphere V has it locked down. Especially since Gontor has already been Spotted! by Blackwing, and as a result is going to have a pretty hard time sneaking on V.

[factotum]

Also, are we sure that he isn't now a priest of Hela? Because if so, wouldn't that affect his spell situation vis a vis availability?

Durkula didn't seem to have a lot of spells remaining after being vamped, so I doubt Gontor is any different.