A Fair Dragon Encounter (3.5)

[Chester]

Despite the CR, Dragons can do a lot of damage--even young dragons.

Can you recommend a particular age/color that's a fair encounter for a level 6-7 party? (5 members: Warforged melee, human Artificer, human Paladin / Sorcerer, Elan Psion, Human Monk / Cleric).

Nobody's particularly apt with ranged weapons.

What has your experience been?

[DarkSoul]

In my experience, there's no such thing as a fair dragon encounter. You either allow it to use all of its abilities to the fullest based on its intelligence and it's a tough fight for the party, or you remove its ability to use some of its abilities and the party crushes it.

Pick a dragon that's the same CR as your party. Let the party decide how they face it.

[Flickerdart]

Don't use a dragon. It has no reason not to strafe the party with breath weapons until they run away.

[Beheld]

Use a Dragon, it has no reason not to strafe the party until they run away. Then your party can realize this, adapt to the problem, and try again with new tactics.

[Draconium]

Don't use a dragon. It has no reason not to strafe the party with breath weapons until they run away.

Unless you want to do this to the party. But you know, that's kind of a jerk move. So don't do this.

I'd recommend using something else as well. as DarkSoul above me said, it's either going to be way too easy for the party because you aren't using the dragon to the full extent of it's power, or way to hard because you are. It's hard to find that sweet spot of balance in between, and it takes a really experienced DM who knows their players to do it well.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

In a straight up fight, where the only goal is to kill one another, and the dragon is aware of the party, Flickerdart has the right of it. The party is ill-equipped to deal with strafing tactics.

But if the dragon doesn't automatically know the PCs are coming, and the goal is not to kill the dragon but to take something precious in its hoard (perhaps the dragon isn't even aware of its existence), then the PCs can at the very least force a fight on their terms. If the dragon decides to strafe them instead of engaging, they can spend the off-rounds taking what they need and leaving. If you're worried about the dragon tracking them down, then perhaps you conveniently place a (single) scroll of Teleport in the dragon's loot for the Artificer to find.

[PallentisLunam]

Don't use a dragon. It has no reason not to strafe the party with breath weapons until they run away.

If the party in question is dumb enough to engage the dragon in an open field then they deserve to get strafed into oblivion.

Now that said if half of the party has little to no ranged capabilities don't spring a dragon on them suddenly when they are in the middle of a field, but dragons have lairs in which they store their hoards. The most classic of these lairs is a cave. Unless the cave is very very big then most dragons won't be able to fly inside of it without crashing into walls and ceilings and junk, clumsy maneuverability and all that.

If you're going to use a dragon in an optimized fashion and the goal is for the party to defeat the dragon and get the loot, then your players need to come up with a plan that plays to their strengths and the dragon's weaknesses. Otherwise yes a level appropriate dragon played well will wipe the floor with them.

[Aegis013]

If the party in question is dumb enough to engage the dragon in an open field then they deserve to get strafed into oblivion.

It may not be the party's choice on where to engage the dragon. At least not the first time. Plus, depending on the dragon, engaging in an open field and dealing with strafing breath attacks might be better than going into its likely heavily fortified lair where it can potentially utilize goons/attendants, assuming the dragon has kobold worshipers or has terrorized some local inhabitants into obedience to it or the like. Not to mention, the smart dragon will have ways to escape its lair in the event something really bad goes on, so finishing the job might be difficult in either situation.

Really, the biggest question is whether the goal is to actually slay the dragon, or something else. Assuming equal op-fu between the players and the dragon, it's probably easier to negotiate with a dragon than slay it.


As far as my experiences, I ran a CR equivalent dragon encounter against a party, but the dragon was confined in cavern deep underground, large enough for it to utilize strafing breath attacks, but totally enclosed so it couldn't escape. It had low-level kobold attendants, had trapped the area, and shaped the cavern to provide perches and other advantageous terrain. My party (two fairly optimized tri-gestalt characters who couldn't use T1/2 classes, who ended up being super hard hitting barbarian monk bear and a volley ranger type character) were able to win by the skin of their teeth, but the combat took a few hours just due to how good dragons inherently are at playing keep away.

[nedz]

Don't use a dragon. It has no reason not to strafe the party with breath weapons until they run away.

A better encounter is to have the Dragon circle the party, just out of arrow range, threatening to swoop in and breath on the tightly packed group; until one of them breaks from the group. Then: Swoop, Snatch and Drop.

This creates much more tension, and the Dragon can always fly off if the party stay together.

[Darrin]

Don't use a dragon. Use a chimera or wyvern. They are dragon-like enough that you'll get a somewhat fair fight, but they're both low Int monsters that can reasonably be expected to do something dumb enough like attack a party of PCs. CR is about right for the party.

[Cwymbran-San]

"Only a fool would meet a dragon in an open field" (adopted from a Robert Baratheon proverb).

If your characters have survived up to level 6-7, they are clever enough (hopefully) to realize this in advance. Meeting a dragon on his terms is suicide.

If you shape the battlefield to suit the players (cover, ranged weapons available, rifts to hide in so the dragon must fold it's wings), the fight becomes a little more even. But even then, a dragon might see his disadvantage (after taking a few licks) and fly away, waiting for his chance...in my experience (we are playing RHoD right now), Dragons can make for a VERY challenging encounter at any level.

[Fouredged Sword]

Let the dragon fight them, but don't have it be in an open field. There is such a thing as caves, or perhaps an old ruin, or maybe even a thick forest if the breath weapon is a line attack of something unlikely to spread (fire attacks just burn the forest down and cones are likely to hit even if the dragon can't see the targets though the thick branches.)

Make them force the dragon to land and then fight in conditions it cannot simply fly away (in a cave, heavy branches overhead that it cannot force it's way though without damaging it's wings, ect)

As a rule of thumb, I add 1 to the CR of any given true dragon if encountered in an area that gives it an advantage.

[Flickerdart]

A better encounter is to have the Dragon circle the party, just out of arrow range, threatening to swoop in and breath on the tightly packed group; until one of them breaks from the group. Then: Swoop, Snatch and Drop.

This creates much more tension, and the Dragon can always fly off if the party stay together.
CR6 dragons aren't really big enough to do that. That's why dragon is a bad option.

[Chester]

Pick a dragon that's the same CR as your party. Let the party decide how they face it.

Yes, that's what I anticipate, but you never know. I'm still just wondering if there's a dragon that's traditionally "easier to deal with." Like, are black dragons easier than green dragons, etc?


Use a Dragon, it has no reason not to strafe the party until they run away. Then your party can realize this, adapt to the problem, and try again with new tactics.

Again, yeah. They'd be stupid to face it without careful thought.


I If you're worried about the dragon tracking them down, then perhaps you conveniently place a (single) scroll of Teleport in the dragon's loot for the Artificer to find.

Fantastic idea, thanks!


If the party in question is dumb enough to engage the dragon in an open field then they deserve to get strafed into oblivion.

I agree. :smallbiggrin:


Let the dragon fight them, but don't have it be in an open field. ....Make them force the dragon to land and then fight in conditions it cannot simply fly away (in a cave, heavy branches overhead that it cannot force it's way though without damaging it's wings, ect).

If the party is clever enough, yes. I'll provide opportunities to do that.

I'm not forcing them into a straight out fight; I plan to provide other opportunities including getting a bigger metallic dragon on their side, negotiation, stealth, battlefield options, etc. I'm also pretty good (I think) at working unanticipated PC plans into the adventure, so anything the party can come up with is open.

The group likes the idea of interacting with dragons in a game called Dungeons and Dragons. Still....there's always that one guy who just wants to fight everything. Of the chromatic dragons, are any of the younger ones "less formidable" than the others, so if stupidity prevails, it's not a total party kill and there's some chance? (I mean, without me significantly nerfing the thing like a chump.)

[Quertus]

You said "encounter", not "fight", so...

Take a hatchlng Dragon, add (non-associated) rogue levels to reach CR 6-8. Have the Dragon use disguise skill (+ hat of disguise?) to pretend to be something else - perhaps even the animal companion / mount of the ranger / paladin / druid / etc cohort it got by taking leadership. Season to taste.

Now, if the party fights the Dragon, it isn't quite as ridiculous as most dragons of its CR, and it will be memorable... even if the party never figures out it was a dragon.

[OldTrees1]

Your party is not outfitted/trained to fight a draconic Dragon encounter and I can't in good faith suggest a nondraconic Dragon encounter.

So I suggest treating the dragon as a optional unintended open ended puzzle encounter.
Optional: They don't have to fight/engage it.
Unintended: Do not put the "plot this way" trail through a dragon fight. In fact, assume the fight won't happen.
Puzzle encounter: The party is not initially able to deal with the encounter but might have a solution given some prep time.
Open ended puzzle: There is more than 1 right answer

[Chester]

Your party is not outfitted/trained to fight a draconic Dragon encounter and I can't in good faith suggest a nondraconic Dragon encounter.

So I suggest treating the dragon as a optional unintended open ended puzzle encounter.
Optional: They don't have to fight/engage it.
Unintended: Do not put the "plot this way" trail through a dragon fight. In fact, assume the fight won't happen.
Puzzle encounter: The party is not initially able to deal with the encounter but might have a solution given some prep time.
Open ended puzzle: There is more than 1 right answer

Precisely.

I'm just trying to prepare for the option of fighting.

[Spore]

In my experience, there's no such thing as a fair dragon encounter. You either allow it to use all of its abilities to the fullest based on its intelligence and it's a tough fight for the party, or you remove its ability to use some of its abilities and the party crushes it.

Pick a dragon that's the same CR as your party. Let the party decide how they face it.

You don't realize how dragons work, dude. I, as a dragon psychologist, can offer help however!

They are a living the dream. They are insanely rich, sleep all day, very powerful and cocky. They are a breathing dare with wings. If some lowly 7th level adventurers stumble into its lair, they most likely prefer to play with them instead of crushing them. It really helps that most CR 7 dragons are young or very young (6-25 years). Just think about what you would've done if you were born the size of a family car, can fly and cast spells and crush most sentient enemies under your claw WHILE BEING A TEENAGER. They're cocky.

Questions they ask themselves are:
"How many warriors can I kill without using my breath ripping them apart and tenderizing their meat? Canned meat, HAH!"
"Maybe if I use my at-will silent image SLA all day I can make the humans die in the desert instead of actually fighting them like a proper blue dragon."
"I am a red dragon, my fire breath is iconic. Let's kill this 1st level rogue down there just with it."

After they've become young adults or adults you can start adding some real caution to their stratagems. Because they HAVE met several mortals that could kill them. They know the more powerful characters in the region, and they were even forced to abandon some battles here and there.

[Balmas]

There's no such thing as a fair dragon fight, mate. Either the dragon is played like an intelligent, ancient lizard, in which case the PCs will have to fight just to survive, or it's played stupidly, in which case it will die like a chump. And this is as it should be; dragons should be terrifying, no matter what CR you put it at. Pick a CR at their level, and have everyone in town tell them about how suicidal it is to fight them. The only exception would be for a white dragon, who is generally the stupid kind of dragon. And even then, I'd keep in mind that stupid doesn't always mean not cunning.

I would consider taking a look at what Spoony says about dragons in his Circle Strafe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFnTRfR46Gc) episode of Counter Monkey.

If you're looking for the TLDR version of it:

Dragons are bastards. When played properly, ie like an ancient lizard with wings, fire, and magic abilities would act, they can and should be the scariest things your PCs will ever face. They are old, they are scarily intelligent. On that note:
Dragons, if you play them right, will never fight in an enclosed space, in their lairs, somewhere where they cannot fly. If the PCs pop into its lair unannounced--let's pretend, just for a second, that the dragon is stupid and hasn't put an alarm spell on their cave's entrance or built a secondary escape route--then the dragon will eat a few attacks of opportunity to get out to where it can fly.
Fighting a dragon in the open is suicide. A Dragon has wings, an infinite amount of time, and a breath weapon that recharges every few rounds. Unless your PCs find a way to down it, it should not come down of its own accord. Why would it, when you have Conan lugging a sword the size of a table? A dragon forces the PCs to fight on its terms, or not at all.
Dragons are smart. If someone's playing Legolas, or maybe a wizard specced for blasting, guess who's going to be first to be breath-weapon'd? After a few rounds of that, problem solved.
Don't forget that dragons have spells. At the level you're playing, they won't be many--a CR 7 Young Dragon only has 1st level spells--but they will have them. Even if it's just a magic missile between breath weapons, it's another thing it can do while waiting for breath weapons to recharge.

[DrMotives]

I suppose if you really need a dragon with less ... dragon, going for it, you could try something weirder like a planar dragon, those don't have innate sorcery, but still have SLAs. Or a Chinese dragon, those also have no sorcery, and all but 2 have no breath weapons either. They still have SLAs, frightful presence, infinite time, plus the extra bonuses of unlimited telepathy & unlimited use alternate humanoid form abilities though. And most have extra alternate movement forms, to include swim, climb, and burrow speeds.

[PallentisLunam]

There's no such thing as a fair dragon fight, mate. Either the dragon is played like an intelligent, ancient lizard, in which case the PCs will have to fight just to survive, or it's played stupidly, in which case it will die like a chump. And this is as it should be; dragons should be terrifying, no matter what CR you put it at. Pick a CR at their level, and have everyone in town tell them about how suicidal it is to fight them. The only exception would be for a white dragon, who is generally the stupid kind of dragon. And even then, I'd keep in mind that stupid doesn't always mean not cunning.

I would consider taking a look at what Spoony says about dragons in his Circle Strafe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFnTRfR46Gc) episode of Counter Monkey.

If you're looking for the TLDR version of it:

Dragons are bastards. When played properly, ie like an ancient lizard with wings, fire, and magic abilities would act, they can and should be the scariest things your PCs will ever face. They are old, they are scarily intelligent. On that note:
Dragons, if you play them right, will never fight in an enclosed space, in their lairs, somewhere where they cannot fly. If the PCs pop into its lair unannounced--let's pretend, just for a second, that the dragon is stupid and hasn't put an alarm spell on their cave's entrance or built a secondary escape route--then the dragon will eat a few attacks of opportunity to get out to where it can fly.
Fighting a dragon in the open is suicide. A Dragon has wings, an infinite amount of time, and a breath weapon that recharges every few rounds. Unless your PCs find a way to down it, it should not come down of its own accord. Why would it, when you have Conan lugging a sword the size of a table? A dragon forces the PCs to fight on its terms, or not at all.
Dragons are smart. If someone's playing Legolas, or maybe a wizard specced for blasting, guess who's going to be first to be breath-weapon'd? After a few rounds of that, problem solved.
Don't forget that dragons have spells. At the level you're playing, they won't be many--a CR 7 Young Dragon only has 1st level spells--but they will have them. Even if it's just a magic missile between breath weapons, it's another thing it can do while waiting for breath weapons to recharge.


This all assumes that the PCs blunder in like morons with absolutely no knowledge of what they will be facing. Yeah sure dragons are dragons but let's give the PCs enough credit to acknowledge that. If the PCs treat the encounter as something to be solved with brute force then they should expect to get out maneuvered, so they shouldn't do that.

Looking at the points you made:
Dragons should be scary. Agreed.

Dragons will never fight in an enclosed space. Well that doesn't seem like it would always be an option. Given a chance to plan and recon the dragon's lair and habits why couldn't the PCs set a trap that would force the dragon to fight at a disadvantage, in a place where it can't fly? Your senario with the alarm spell is just silly. At 7th level 99/100 parties will have some way to detect it and cast dispel magic and any adventurer (or player for that matter) worth their salt at that level will expect magical traps from an "ancient lizard with wings, fire, and magic abilities" so if they don't it's their fault for being dumb. Plus dragons are always described as the epitome of greed. You're telling me if their treasure is about to be stolen they're just gonna book it and let it happen? Sure they may wait for the party to exit the lair and then try to kill them and recover the loot but what if the party just teleports out? Not buying the never fights in an enclosed space bit and really not buying the bit about leaving whenever adventurers get near its hoard.

Fighting a dragon in the open is suicide. Once again preparation is key. Everybody should at the very least have a couple of potions of Protection from/Resist Energy and powerful ranged weapons if they plan to fight this way. They should also try to capitalize on terrain and as you pointed out find some way to down the beast. The range on a dragon's breath weapon isn't infinite so the party can ready actions based on its strafing runs. There are ways to mitigate the dragon's advantages even in this worst case scenario.

Dragons are smart. Agreed. But this is less of a problem if the players/character are smart as well.

Dragons have spells. And we all know that there are absolutely no methods of neutralizing enemy spellcasters.

There seems to be a false dichotomy in this thread that fights are always one sided either for or against the PCs. What exactly is wrong with a hard fight in which player death is a possibility if somebody screws up? This doesn't mean that the monster automatically wins. It just means that the players can't expect to win by virtue of being the players. Admittedly not something for all groups but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

Dragons should be dangerous otherwise they cease to be dragons, but this doesn't make them unusable. The party has a variety of noncombat choices when dealing with them and they should be aware that taking a combat route will not be easy and should not be chosen lightly. Big risk, big reward and all that.

Just don't make dragons a random encounter

Edit: Even better than dispelling the alarm use it to screw with the dragon. Send familiars, animal messengers, ect. back and forth through the area to make the dragon think an army is coming down its lair.

[Crake]

Don't use a dragon. It has no reason not to strafe the party with breath weapons until they run away.

You say this like there aren't ways to ground a dragon. Earthbind is a 2nd level sorc/wiz/druid spell that can completely bring a dragon down from the sky for minutes, more than enough time to take out the dragon. While most dragons can still outrun humans on foot, there's also the slow spell which can give your party time to catch up to it and surround it, while also stopping it from uing it's full attack to rip through the party. If it has SR, make liberal use of assay resistance to make sure you can overcome it, then hey presto. The whole fight comes down to the party using the right tools to take away the dragon's advantages. Either that, or the party find ways to fly themselves, like for example the cleric casting Celestial Aspect for wings of the astral deva on the fighter, giving him a 100ft flight speed with good maneuverability, allowing him to engage the dragon in combat.

Dragons are definitely managable opponents if you use the right tools. Make sure the players are aware of what they're coming up against though, otherwise it can turn into a massacre.

[Chester]

OK. Good points, all.

Basically, this is a follow-up to another thread I posted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?454515-3-5-Dragon-Illnesses), and I'm going with some ideas developed there.

The situation:

Guild leader / protector of a small city or large town is a female gold dragon. Adult, I'm thinking.

PCs learn that a young / juvenile / etc. green or black or whatever dragon engaged it in combat and inexplicably drove the gold one wounded and ill back into her lair. (This is based on a rather high level module, scaled down for our current party.)

PCs may discover that the gold dragon has been infected with an illness that causes her wounds to fester and her mind to become confused, attacking friends randomly if she is awoken. (She won't kill PCs, just drive them off unless they're effing stupid.) Servants of the young but clever dragon are trying to seal her in and wait for her to die.

Baddie young dragon probably procured a vial of the disease from an older dragon farther away, leaving the option open for future plot hooks. In either case, PCs may learn he holds the cure. They may learn this from one of the baddie's followers who is actually held prisoner in the gold's lair, all but forgotten and possibly willing to help the PCs in exchange for rescue.

So, I see a number of solutions, including, but not limited to:

PCs use stealth to retrieve the cure and allow the gold dragon to take care of things.
PCs use the prisoner as a lackey to retrieve the cure, again allowing the gold to do the dirty work once cured
PCs attempt to negotiate with the baddie; it may save the gold but it will be at a price
PCs can run and just let others deal with it (highly unlikely, though)
PCs can be stupid and directly challenge the evil dragon


Yes, there is room for poor negotiations and bad choices. However, I think that if the dragon senses a threat (and if the party's negotiating goes poorly due to terrible diplomacy rolls etc., or if stealth doesn't pan out due to poor rolls), I'll definitely allow for the dragon to escape while his minions engage the party. Dragon can take a shot on his way out but not stick around while he's at a disadvantage.

If the party is just plain too cocky and stupid for their own good, well.....too bad, but I'm not going for a TPK unless they all want to remain stupid for a prolonged period of time.

[Flickerdart]

You say this like there aren't ways to ground a dragon.
No, there are ways to ground a dragon - but if you look at the party composition, they probably don't have those ways.



Earthbind is a 2nd level sorc/wiz/druid spell that can completely bring a dragon down from the sky for minutes, more than enough time to take out the dragon. While most dragons can still outrun humans on foot, there's also the slow spell which can give your party time to catch up to it and surround it, while also stopping it from uing it's full attack to rip through the party.
The party has no druids or wizards. It has a paladin/sorcerer (presumably level 2 paladin, so level 4 or 5 sorcerer). I'll bet you 20 bucks that the sorcerer's only 2nd level spell known (or one of his two only 2nd level spells known) isn't earthbind. Slow is definitely out of the picture, since he would need 6 sorcerer levels to get it.



If it has SR, make liberal use of assay resistance to make sure you can overcome it, then hey presto.

Nobody in the party is capable of casting 4th level spells.



The whole fight comes down to the party using the right tools to take away the dragon's advantages. Either that, or the party find ways to fly themselves, like for example the cleric casting Celestial Aspect for wings of the astral deva on the fighter, giving him a 100ft flight speed with good maneuverability, allowing him to engage the dragon in combat.
The cleric might have access to a 3rd level sanctified spell (it's likely that he is monk 1/cleric 5 or cleric 6). But 100ft/round is not really enough to outpace a dragon, and the dragon can come back after your minutes/level spell expires and eat you.


Dragons are definitely managable opponents if you use the right tools. Make sure the players are aware of what they're coming up against though, otherwise it can turn into a massacre.
Too bad the party doesn't have access to the tools.

[Chester]

The party has no druids or wizards. It has a paladin/sorcerer (presumably level 2 paladin, so level 4 or 5 sorcerer). I'll bet you 20 bucks that the sorcerer's only 2nd level spell known (or one of his two only 2nd level spells known) isn't earthbind. Slow is definitely out of the picture, since he would need 6 sorcerer levels to get it.


The cleric might have access to a 3rd level sanctified spell (it's likely that he is monk 1/cleric 5 or cleric 6). But 100ft/round is not really enough to outpace a dragon, and the dragon can come back after your minutes/level spell expires and eat you.


Too bad the party doesn't have access to the tools.

Precisely. The Cleric is Monk 1 / Cleric 5 planning to jump to Sacred Fist. Our Sorcerer is currently Paladin of Freedom 2 / Metamagic Specialist Sorcerer 4, planning to go a level of Spellsword followed by Abjurant Champion. (Note that the party will be a level higher when it's my turn to DM.)

So, yes, they have to find a way to deal beforehand. They cannot march in and fight, so I hope they don't.

I may have to consider an NPC to enlist for help. :smallannoyed:

Thing is . . . I really like the idea of this arc. :smallbiggrin:

[PallentisLunam]

The party has no druids or wizards. It has a paladin/sorcerer (presumably level 2 paladin, so level 4 or 5 sorcerer). I'll bet you 20 bucks that the sorcerer's only 2nd level spell known (or one of his two only 2nd level spells known) isn't earthbind. Slow is definitely out of the picture, since he would need 6 sorcerer levels to get it.

Nobody in the party is capable of casting 4th level spells.

Too bad the party doesn't have access to the tools.

They have an artificer.

[Flickerdart]

They have an artificer.

Which is a great asset when they have a pile of GP squirreled away and a few days' warning that there will be a dragon. Or when high-op artificer shenanigans become appropriate next to a cleric/monk and paladin/sorcerer.

[PallentisLunam]

Which is a great asset when they have a pile of GP squirreled away and a few days' warning that there will be a dragon.

Which sounds exactly like the scenario described above.

[Flickerdart]

Which sounds exactly like the scenario described above.

When did the OP state that his low-level party has that kind of gold to burn? Consider how many minimum-DC earthbind scrolls it will take for the dragon to fail a Fortitude save.

[Spore]

Dragons are smart. Agreed. But this is less of a problem if the players/character are smart as well.

Oh come on. You tell me a Int 13 20 year old dragon is the pinnacle of strategic planning? You have my vote when you do not want to use younger dragons. But then you shouldn't ask for a CR 8 dragon encounter to begin with.

[PallentisLunam]

When did the OP state that his low-level party has that kind of gold to burn? Consider how many minimum-DC earthbind scrolls it will take for the dragon to fail a Fortitude save.

Sounds more like a reason that earthbind isn't the right tool for the job than a reason that the party doesn't have the tools to fight a dragon. The artificer gives the party access to almost any single use magic item they could want, given the chance to prepare. So they have to make the right choices about how to prepare.


Oh come on. You tell me a Int 13 20 year old dragon is the pinnacle of strategic planning? You have my vote when you do not want to use younger dragons. But then you shouldn't ask for a CR 8 dragon encounter to begin with.

Umm, which side of this discussion are you on Mr "Dragon Psychologist"? A 13 for intelligence put the dragon above the average human. They're not a super genius, yet, but they aren't stupid. I can't tell if you're saying that a dragon shouldn't be used because it would be too smart or too dumb.

And by the way, why are you quoting me when you're telling the OP not to ask for advice on a mid CR dragon encounter?

[Beheld]

I'm not sure they have the time to really prepare, but against dragons some good choices include asking your DM to not use the stupid conjuration rules "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it." in a dumb way, and say "air can support fogs and clouds" and the cast Solid Fog on the dragon, so that it divebombs out of the air, since it has poor manueverability. You won't have very long, but if it is within range to breath on you, a readied action Solid Fog should drop it straight into the ground right next to you, and you can dogpile to kill it and/or grapple restrain it. Uses up a fair chunk of money, but that is what happens when you play an artificer. And unlike Earthbind, it actually as a 100% chance of dropping him to the ground, instead of a 5% chance.

[Chester]

Well....I didn't expect such a debate.

I'm going with a green dragon.