Spell ranges, combined with widespread spell effect.

[Hiro Quester]

Preparing spells and discussing party tactics for a possible sea battle, two questions came up for my 9th level druid PC.

Question 1: Creating a wall of fire without getting too close.

Example: Wall of Fire is a medium range spell. A 9th level Druid can cast such a wall up to 190 feet away (100 ft +10ft/level) from himself. The wall can be 20 ft/level long, or 180 feet long.

Does that mean that the whole wall must be within range, so that if he is at one end of the wall, the closest part of the wall must be only 10 feet away? (Then he would take damage from his own wall.)

Or can the closest part of the wall be 190 feet away, and the wall extend out from there, to 270 feet away from him?

Question two: controlling an area spell after moving.

Control Winds creates a windstorm of 40 feet/level radius, up to 40 feet/level away. So if the caster is not at the center of the windstorm he would be at the very edge of it (take a 5 foot step back after casting, for safety).

Control Winds also enables the caster to concentrate upon the spell to change the wind's direction. But if the caster has moved even 5 feet away from the area of the windstorm, a part of the area of effect would now be out of range.

If the center of the spell effect is no longer in range (it's now 5 feet further away than when it was cast), but most of the spell area is in range, can the caster still change the direction of the windstorm?

Or can they only change that part that is within the original casting range (40 feet per level of a point 40 feet per level away), such that the out of reach parts of the area of effect would be unchanged?

[DrMotives]

The closest RAW I can think of is the fireball spell, where the center point of the spread must within range, but the spell can extend beyond that. I think going of off how this sort of thing is portrayed in movies & books, the wall of fire must have part of the wall within range, but the rest can extend away from the caster at the time of casting. And the range for control winds should only matter for the moment of casting, after that keeping the spell within line of sight seems reasonable.

[nedz]

Preparing spells and discussing party tactics for a possible sea battle, two questions came up for my 9th level druid PC.

Question 1: Creating a wall of fire without getting too close.

Example: Wall of Fire is a medium range spell. A 9th level Druid can cast such a wall up to 190 feet away (100 ft +10ft/level) from himself. The wall can be 20 ft/level long, or 180 feet long.

Does that mean that the whole wall must be within range, so that if he is at one end of the wall, the closest part of the wall must be only 10 feet away? (Then he would take damage from his own wall.)

Or can the closest part of the wall be 190 feet away, and the wall extend out from there, to 270 feet away from him?

Range

A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include the following.
You can view the range as clipping the AoE, if that makes sense.

Question two: controlling an area spell after moving.

Control Winds creates a windstorm of 40 feet/level radius, up to 40 feet/level away. So if the caster is not at the center of the windstorm he would be at the very edge of it (take a 5 foot step back after casting, for safety).

Control Winds also enables the caster to concentrate upon the spell to change the wind's direction. But if the caster has moved even 5 feet away from the area of the windstorm, a part of the area of effect would now be out of range.

If the center of the spell effect is no longer in range (it's now 5 feet further away than when it was cast), but most of the spell area is in range, can the caster still change the direction of the windstorm?

Or can they only change that part that is within the original casting range (40 feet per level of a point 40 feet per level away), such that the out of reach parts of the area of effect would be unchanged?
The spells variables are only used at the time of casting. If you cast and then move the range is from your original position.

[Hiro Quester]

Thanks.

So control winds can either be a massive circle, centered on you, or the venn diagram intersection of two circles, one centered at 40ft/level away, the other centered on you, with everything further than 40ft/level away from you clipped.

And a wall spell must have both ends in range.

Not the answer I was hoping for on the range of casting thing. But I see it now. Thanks.

Is there an explicit precedent for controlling a spell effect that is further from the caster than its range at casting? Or is this a DM interpretation/fiat kind of thing?

[erok0809]

Personally, I think the area clipping thing is stupid, and houserule it away as a DM. But I'm pretty sure by RAW the range always clips the area if you go past it.

[Beheld]

Yeah, I've never see a DM that didn't houserule that rule about spell ranges clipping the AoE away. In fact, Wizards of the Coast themselves have no idea that is the rule, in the Fiendish Codex I there is a spell with a touch range that creates an Area 100ft/level spread effect. By Raw, this 9th level spell with a minute casting time creates it's effect only within touch range.

[nedz]

Yeah, I've never see a DM that didn't houserule that rule about spell ranges clipping the AoE away. In fact, Wizards of the Coast themselves have no idea that is the rule, in the Fiendish Codex I there is a spell with a touch range that creates an Area 100ft/level spread effect. By Raw, this 9th level spell with a minute casting time creates it's effect only within touch range.

Which spell ?

[Beheld]

Which spell ?

Despoil (Additional Characters)

[Red Fel]

It's true, area clipping is actually a fairly serious problem. A lot of spells have an area of effect that goes almost immediately outside of range. Control Winds is really only the tip of the iceberg - where the range and radius of the area are the same, you basically have to detonate the effect on yourself to get the full range. There are a lot of threads to this effect.

I think a lot of DMs either houserule the clipping out or are simply unaware of it. Particularly when it comes to highly destructive spells, it renders them almost unusable.

[nedz]

Despoil (Additional Characters)

Also:

Blizzard
Dark Way
Gust of Wind
Necromantic Singularity

I suspect that there are others.

[Hiro Quester]

Okay, so I'll have to see how my DM deals with the area/range issue. What about spells you can control (e.g. By contracting on the spell) after casting? How does/should range work then?

I'm hoping to be able to change wind direction in ways to mess with enemy ship, but give our ship's pilot warning so he can sail out of the storm I have left in enemy's path. Then totally mess with the enemy ship once we are out of the windstorm.



Is there an explicit precedent for controlling a spell effect that is further from the caster than its range at casting? Or is this a DM interpretation/fiat kind of thing?

[Troacctid]

Spells that create an effect rather than affecting an area can extend beyond their range. For example, with summoning spells, the creature must be summoned in range, but can move outside the range afterwards.